EPIC imbalance

[Daiyukie]

The solution...obvious

 

Nerf Operatives

 

No, look, you don't get to make Nerf Operatives jokes, you're a frickin' Sentinel who's never touched a DPS Operative. Get outta here with that.

[Altheran]

Getting 2.5k sweeps = failure to stack 4 singularity and utilising the 100% crit to sweep from force leap/zealous leap

 

I don't like L2P responses, but I have to agree with this one.

When I tried the spec on my marauder a month ago (and disliked it), with uncomplete BM (with some recruit parts, and with no re-modding) I was able to put some 4K at least.

 

Or maybe he is Vengence specced which explains 2.5K Smashes.

[PowerReaper]

No, look, you don't get to make Nerf Operatives jokes, you're a frickin' Sentinel who's never touched a DPS Operative. Get outta here with that.

 

Sorry i decided to make a Sentinel (the underpowered class) when Operatives where overpowered.

Umad? (Someone is following the forum guidelines).

[Zunayson]

I... wow....

 

It is aL2P issue

 

who thought someone was so bad at their own class

 

that they can't even play derpsmash spec right

 

please reroll a powertech. Maybe the rotation is simpler.

[Nilatis]

On The Red Eclipse,from what I see of PvP,Imps fair very well indeed. You said at the start that you "had the headstart" on your old server,did you complain when you whalloped the reps? I doubt it. .

 

Don't presume my intentions from how you yourself would pass the fence. When I was playing on Bloodworthy I made notice of faction imbalance several times. I had the opportunity to farm on Ilum when we were 200 Imps vs 5 Reps, but I didn't.

 

you leveled up 2 battle masters instead of leveling a war hero......

 

I've played since pre-launch. If you don't know what that means, I suggest you leave your blatant patronizing silent.

 

Strange, I come from Bloodworthy aswell. Landed on Tomb of Freedon Nadd

 

My old Sorcerer is at Tomb of Freedon Nadd. I quit back in 1.2, when I came back a couple of months later I moved to Red Eclipse where my first character was a Juggernaut.

 

The fact that you re-rolled another class just because they felt more powerful in your eyes speaks very poorly of you. Instead if rolling a class you like and learning the ropes, you just moved in to the next class you felt was even better.

 

I don't think you are learning to play any class. I think you are looking for the easy way out.

 

Another poor presumption which is probably just based on how you yourself would pass the fence. Read my reply Aerilas.

 

ehm.. you need to stack 4x shockwave before you smash (and with the dominate 100% crit buff).

 

also like some have said, you just rerolled to something you thought was better. now, even if you did that, it's not hard to READ YOUR SKILL TREE TALENTS.

 

you cant expect to just roll a class, clicky clicky random talents and be able to perform as well as others.

 

aaaaand 5k force screams are more of a carnage marauder thing.

 

You're an imbecile. Sorry, but there is no other way of saying it. It's ridiculous assumptions like these that make balancing impossible. youtube.com/user/TriumvirateMedia I know how to play my classes, thanks.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Nilatis

[Nilatis]

and if you are only getting 2500 smashes then you are just doing it...completely wrong.

 

Yeah, because getting 4 stacks of Shockwave, do a Force Charge, and hitting a Sage/Sorc with a single ability is an extremely difficult rotation. I'm just going to have to assume that you're psychologically projecting your own inability to play onto me, because there is no chance in hell that you can be that stupid.

[warultima]

I know how to play my classes, thanks.

 

Rage/Focus definitely not one of them...

 

Well I can smash a sage for 4k+ routinely in recruit MK2.

You claim your full BM and can only do 2.5k.

 

Did you replace all the BM mods with Lv30 green armoring/mods/enhancements?

Edited October 28, 2012 by warultima

[Alec_Fortescue]

Removing expertise would solve a lot of issues...

[Rerkk]

i was sweeping sorcs regularly for 5k+ when i was still in battlemaster gear. Focus isnt difficult, leap, force exhaustion, master strike/ravage, sweep/smash then clean up.

[Devilk]

Yeah, because getting 4 stacks of Shockwave, do a Force Charge, and hitting a Sage/Sorc with a single ability is an extremely difficult rotation. I'm just going to have to assume that you're psychologically projecting your own inability to play onto me, because there is no chance in hell that you can be that stupid.

 

Either you are FLAT OUT lying or you are not getting your 4 stacks of shockwave, my smash auto crits for 2.5-3k when I don't have any stacks of shockwave. I was landing 4k crits on war hero sages/sorcerers as a fresh 50 in RECRUIT MK2 gear.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Devilk

[Zunayson]

I hit a pt tank for 1.5k, Full stacks, recruit MK2 gear. I think he was in wh.

 

okay he probably had the 30% reduction from AP (most likely just running tankstance). So that's -60% damage right there, since he probably had about 45+ armor reduction, factor in 30% armor pen.

[Devilk]

Oh, and that Knight/Warrior hit you for 5k and 8k because his gear is straight optimized for huge smashes with nothing but power and surge. What exactly is your complaint here? Do you actually expect to do similar damage in gear that's not as good as a higher tier? Edited October 28, 2012 by Devilk

[Larry_Dallas]

I hit a pt tank for 1.5k, Full stacks, recruit MK2 gear. I think he was in wh.

 

okay he probably had the 30% reduction from AP (most likely just running tankstance). So that's -60% damage right there, since he probably had about 45+ armor reduction, factor in 30% armor pen.

 

If he was stunned, pretty sure he has a 60% aoe reduction. Yeah, good luck lolsmashing an AP PT.

[-IceHawk-]

Wrath-Chain Lightning

 

Pre-1.2 SORCs that sought to DPS-PVP found immense deficiencies in either 31-Point Tree. Lightning lacked any level of mobility and was highly dependent upon an Affliction-Thundering Blast combination that barely scratched the mid 3.5k in damage. Madness was immensely DOT dependent and could not burst down a target with any regularity.

 

We, the population, adapted to a Hybrid spec that utilized Wrath to Burst Chain Lightning and Crushing Darkness while maintaining Affliction DOTS in order to find some level of viability as a DPS class.

 

The reason behind this choice?

The supposed "Glass-Cannon" lacked a serious single target damage skill.

Shock and Lightning Strike proved prohibitive in a Cost-to-Benefit analysis against basic Force Lightning; meaning that this class principally sat in spot while channeling FL.

 

Our only burst came from a combination of Chain Lightning, Crushing Darkness, and Death Field.

 

Considering the nature of those attacks (2 AOE & 1 DOT) we began to see our best players push very high total damage numbers.

 

Your average Hybrid-SORC (well geared) could produce 250k-350k.

Veteran players could spike to 400K.

Elite SORCS however began to produce 600k & 700k damage totals.

 

So, 1.2 completely removed the viability of the Hybrid spec, dropped SORC damage into the bottom rung of all PVP, with the exception of one much poorer class than we.

 

Now I see Rage Marauders gloating about pushing 800k and 1 Million total damage (with commensurate Kill Totals, something Sorcs very rarely achieved) and likewise claiming balance...

 

How was the Wrath-Chain Lightning build such a threat to PVP community balance then and yet superior damage and kill numbers are not now?

 

This is an utter failure of class balance, period.

 

I am slowly being convinced that BW has no idea how to balance this game for PVP.

 

Obviously, Marauders today are no more objective than we were pre-1.2 on the Sorc forums.

 

However, it is not QQ to point out an obvious and mathematically provable class imbalance and demand that the developers actually address it.

[warultima]

Wrath CL hitting 5 people (it doesnt auto crit btw) for 1.8k-3.5k is nerfed but derpasmash can always crit up to 5 people for 6k vs full WH to 9k vs no expertise is fine.

 

But it's different they are melee warriors so their AoE should do triple the damage. Oh and DEV really dont know how other classes works, they play sith warriors.

[SOULCASTER]

The solution...obvious

 

Nerf Operatives

 

At least someone figured it out.

[DarthRaika]

lol so much rage in this thread. The ops numbers seem off but it is true that a recruit geared player will do less than half of an OPTIMIZED aug wh player with their fully charged smashes. Decently less than half actually. I don't see how anyone who plays pvp a lot can deny this. Whether this is a problem or not is up to you but don't try to deny it. If I see a recruit smasher I don't even worry about them but an optimized one is my top threat.

 

Personally I think we should take optimization out and add a new gear tier. Wh, aug wh, optimized aug wh makes it hard for people to come to a conclusion on what the actual gear gap is where set tiers make that distinction easier. Allow augmenting but take mods out of pvp imo.

 

My guess is some of you want to believe that your gear difference isn't that severe.

Edited October 29, 2012 by DarthRaika

[L-RANDLE]

Removing gear would solve a lot of issues...

 

Here; fixed that for you.

[Siorac]

lol so much rage in this thread. The ops numbers seem off but it is true that a recruit geared player will do less than half of an OPTIMIZED aug wh player with their fully charged smashes. Decently less than half actually. I don't see how anyone who plays pvp a lot can deny this. Whether this is a problem or not is up to you but don't try to deny it. If I see a recruit smasher I don't even worry about them but an optimized one is my top threat.

 

Personally I think we should take optimization out and add a new gear tier. Wh, aug wh, optimized aug wh makes it hard for people to come to a conclusion on what the actual gear gap is where set tiers make that distinction easier. Allow augmenting but take mods out of pvp imo.

 

My guess is some of you want to believe that your gear difference isn't that severe.

 

But 2.5k? Come on, my Sweeps can crit for that much and I'm full Vigilance. With Shii-cho armor pen and autocrit and 100% increased crit damage after Leap and 30% Force crit damage from the talent he should do at least 4k on an unbubbled, unguarded Sorc. And even that would be surprisingly low, 5k would be considered normal.

 

It might have been that he only hit bubbled Sorcs so he only saw the number that wasn't absorbed by the bubble. That could very well have been 2.5k.

[L-RANDLE]

That's Battlemaster vs War Hero for you.

 

And you call it balanced. Shame on you, BioWare, seriously.

 

Gear is not the issue here. Try respeccing to Rage/Focus and you can do close to the same in BM gear. I'm running 18/2/21 and hitting over 5K with 750EXP....

 

 

Oh and......

 

L2P....

Edited October 29, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Nilatis]

But 2.5k? Come on, my Sweeps can crit for that much and I'm full Vigilance. With Shii-cho armor pen and autocrit and 100% increased crit damage after Leap and 30% Force crit damage from the talent he should do at least 4k on an unbubbled, unguarded Sorc. And even that would be surprisingly low, 5k would be considered normal.

 

It might have been that he only hit bubbled Sorcs so he only saw the number that wasn't absorbed by the bubble. That could very well have been 2.5k.

 

When I switch to my fully customized Black Hole gear packed inside a Battlemaster Vindicator 4/4 bonus armor set, maxed out with over 2k Strength, 78% Surge and enough Power to make Darth Vader cry, I will hit for over 6,200 damage, have over 2500 DPS due a 15 sec rotation, and over 1500 DPS due a 1 min rotation. Yeah, only on the weakest mobs, perhaps even 10 levels below me, will I hit over 7,000 damage. PVE is not an issue, PVP is. So stop referring to PVE, which I can only assume that you're doing, because it makes no sense that Recruit or Battlemaster gear will allow anyone to bump over the 5000 damage mark in Warzones against full War Hero gear. Sad part is, I've been hit for over 8,000 damage with it just recently when I was on my Sorcerer which had 1000 Expertise at the time, and that is just flat out outrageous, especially when 1,5 seconds later I'm hit with over 5,000 damage from Force Scream (Marauder). Way for BioWare to make LV50 PVP absurdly retarded.

 

Ps: Note that I'm saying 'over' almost every single time. I'm not adding, I'm actually subtracting damage!

Edited October 29, 2012 by Nilatis

[Siorac]

When I switch to PVE gear I will hit for over 6,200 damage, have over 2500 DPS due a 15 sec rotation, and over 1500 due a 1 min rotation. PVE is not an issue, PVP is. So stop referring to PVE, which I can only assume that you're doing, because it makes no sense that Recruit or Battlemaster gear will allow anyone to bump over the 5000 damage mark in Warzones against full War Hero gear.

 

You said you grinded out Battlemaster gear. In BM, you can and should break 5k with Smashes. Even against full War Hero it should be far higher than 2.5k unless there was some AoE damage reduction talent at work. (Infiltration Shadows have one, Sages have their bubble to explain low numbers etc.).

 

How on earth would I refer to PvE? How often do you Smash Sorcerers in PvE? 2.5k was either a flat out lie or a ridiculous exaggeration or you just picked all the special cases.

[Nilatis]

You said you grinded out Battlemaster gear. In BM, you can and should break 5k with Smashes. Even against full War Hero it should be far higher than 2.5k unless there was some AoE damage reduction talent at work. (Infiltration Shadows have one, Sages have their bubble to explain low numbers etc.).

 

How on earth would I refer to PvE? How often do you Smash Sorcerers in PvE? 2.5k was either a flat out lie or a ridiculous exaggeration or you just picked all the special cases.

 

I've rarely ever managed to break through Sorcerer/Sage's Static Barrier with Smash, that's how bad it is.

 

This is one single rotation, by the way, for those who claim that Rage is the simplest rotation in the game... Oh, and I know it by heart, which is why at the end of every match I have about the same amount of damage done as everyone else on my team:

 

Enrage (Power *4 ticks) -> Force Charge (100% Critical Chance) -> Smash -> Force Crush (Power *4 ticks) -> Sundering Assault -> Ravage -> Obliterate (Critical Chance) -> Smash -> Sundering Assault -> Vicious Slash -> Force Shoke (Power *4 ticks) -> Intercede (On healer, to get distance quickly) -> Force Charge (100% Critical Chance) -> Smash

Edited October 29, 2012 by Nilatis

[Zoom_VI]

If your going to dicuss gear imbalance you ought to consider that in order to get full WH gear let alone optimizing it a player has to grind out hundreds of 50 lvl warzones, where all their opponets have all their talents and abilities, and has by that time has probably seen everything that could be thrown at them not just abilities but tactics, unusual hybrid builds, exceptional players, etc

While the BM-recruit guy has only a few 50 lvl warzones under his belt and is primarily used to lowbie warzones where most people have crappy gear, are missing many of there classes core abilities/talents, and tactics are limited mostly to zerging and 1 vs 1 fighting.

 

So yes WH people have a HUGE advantage cuase they have way more experance (literal experiance not the stat), and have probably seen whatever trick you are trying to pull on them a million times or so.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Zoom_VI

[DarthRaika]

lol don't do that whole experience thing...I don't know an optimized aug wh smash sent/guard/jug/mar that hasn't tried to backpedal for range to leap while I have slowly advanced for the entire fight rofl. In my experience, most players in swtor that have the patience to fully optimize a single class are pugstomping baddies that love the low skill cap and lack of premade matching. Some are decent 1v1'rs but thats about it (and that is because they spec for 1v1 lol).

 

Now, not saying all are like this it is just a game will attract what it supports and a low skill cap, huge gear optimization system, 50% of wz premades, no premade matching, and several different war and healer archetypes will attract the low skilled. Cross server, premade matching, and mixed faction warzones would really help the community.

Edited October 30, 2012 by DarthRaika