So Bioware is not backing down from the "Grab Bags"

[Gokkus]

This isn't a casino. You can't get real money back out of it. (in most cases anyway) Thats what makes casinos work. While gamers will see things as having an apparent worth. It will never have the same hold as a real casino.

 

Nah its the thrill that makes casino's work, besides you get items in bags which are worth money. Well to some anyway.

 

Oh I'm sure of there strategy in trying to get repeat buyers. I just think subscribers who are already paying $15 a month should have an option to buy items outright without the randomness. They can even charge twice as much at 720 coins and gamers will buy them up in droves cause we like to customize.

 

And more people will buy a double cost item if it's something that they really want then paying half for a very small chance at the item they want.

 

Maybe they should have this option but this could also decrease bag sales because the items will be less unique and f2p'ers might feel screwed over cause they do not have the same cash shop options...which could be considered true since the cash shop is for everyone.

 

I think its a smart move from BW's side to implement it the way they intend to.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Gokkus

[lklinga]

That's the hook though (all gambling relies on such things), they put in unique items and you HAVE to gamble to get them, it's plain immoral and the REASON gambling is regulated in most Western countries (to stop people taking advantage of people by making them or encouraging them to gamble in unfair ways).

 

Gambling is fine (although I dunno so much in a game played by kids), but it needs to be properly licenced and regulated.

Off topic.

 

Gambling is only regulated so the the government gets their cut. No moral in there just to get paid. And since they are going to have it filed as income and taxed it is perfectly fine. All they need to follow is to state there is a 30 % chance or whatever for the drop and have that correctly set up in the code and there is nothing immoral about it.

[Goretzu]

/Points to the 500 cartel coin a subsciber gets each month. Save them up, spend them on what you want, never have to drop incremental money on the game.

 

So it's 500 a month?

 

Do we know how many CC $15 buys?

[HelinCarnate]

So it's 500 a month?

 

Do we know how many CC $15 buys?

 

If they follow the industry standard 1/3 of the sub price will be given away with coins. That would make 500cc worth $500

[Tim-ONeil]

No, it is not the same difference... I call your baseless whine of entitlement and raise you with facts.

 

I'm sorry sir but that is a string bet. Your initial call is the end of the action for this round. To avoid this in the future please announce raise before making any action.

[Urael]

If they follow the industry standard 1/3 of the sub price will be given away with coins. That would make 500cc worth $500

 

$5

 

*points at the new real number*

[kevlarto]

who cares if they're not backing down from it.

 

I like it.

 

Same here, just another option to me, if you don't like it don't buy one, i have no issue with them, adds a little unknown element to the game which I find kinda fun..

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I didn't like the idea of the bags before I played on PTS, but using my coins to buy a few I really like it. It will keep someone items rarer, at least for a few weeks. If they release new items with every patch every 6 weeks then there will hopefully always be something rare to get from it.

 

Having something that looks epic feels that much less epic when you walk up to someone with the same thing.

[Lunafox]

I'm an adult, who has real life worries. I have better ways to spend my money, and have no interest in this. In fact this is one of the reasons I'm considering quitting. I played a game like that, where you buy x number of boxes for a crap ton of money only to get nothing, while some other fool buys one, and gets something awesome. My luck isn't that good, so screw this.

[Quraswren]

I'm an adult, who has real life worries. I have better ways to spend my money, and have no interest in this. In fact this is one of the reasons I'm considering quitting. I played a game like that, where you buy x number of boxes for a crap ton of money only to get nothing, while some other fool buys one, and gets something awesome. My luck isn't that good, so screw this.

 

Agreed and my luck in a video game where all the cards and rates are held and designed by BW, my luck feels even worse.

 

I'd gladly pay double the price of the cartel bag for an single item I really wanted just to get rid of the randomness.

 

The benefit of the cartel bag should be getting things already sold in the store but for cheaper - IF you're lucky.

[CelCawdro]

I'm an adult, who has real life worries. I have better ways to spend my money, and have no interest in this. In fact this is one of the reasons I'm considering quitting. I played a game like that, where you buy x number of boxes for a crap ton of money only to get nothing, while some other fool buys one, and gets something awesome. My luck isn't that good, so screw this.

 

And how, as an adult with real-life worries, are you being forced into buying these packs to play the game? They are aesthetic. They are optional. And everything contained within can be bought with in-game credits.

[Rayla_Felana]

And how, as an adult with real-life worries, are you being forced into buying these packs to play the game? They are aesthetic. They are optional. And everything contained within can be bought with in-game credits.

 

You have common sense and use logic, I like you.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I'm an adult, who has real life worries. I have better ways to spend my money, and have no interest in this. In fact this is one of the reasons I'm considering quitting. I played a game like that, where you buy x number of boxes for a crap ton of money only to get nothing, while some other fool buys one, and gets something awesome. My luck isn't that good, so screw this.

 

And as an adult with real life worries you can choose not to worry about the bags and pretend they don't exist. Just because you don't want to use them because you have bad luck no one should have them? Sounds more childish than adult to me.

[GnatB]

This isn't a casino. You can't get real money back out of it. (in most cases anyway) Thats what makes casinos work. While gamers will see things as having an apparent worth. It will never have the same hold as a real casino.

 

The "hold" is the gambling rush, which is still there. People don't (or shouldn't) expect to make money gambling. It's all about the rush. The thrill. And that rush/thrill is still there.

 

This sort of gambling is every bit as bad as casino gambling. Only "saving grace" is the stakes are much lower. Just the amount of time opening these things means it'd take a LOT longer to blow a couple grand on these boxes than it would take in Vegas.

[CelCawdro]

The "hold" is the gambling rush, which is still there. People don't (or shouldn't) expect to make money gambling. It's all about the rush. The thrill. And that rush/thrill is still there.

 

This sort of gambling is every bit as bad as casino gambling. Only "saving grace" is the stakes are much lower. Just the amount of time opening these things means it'd take a LOT longer to blow a couple grand on these boxes than it would take in Vegas.

 

There is a difference between gambling and making a "mystery/blind purchase." You are getting the items that are listed, every time you purchase the item. There is no potential for loss.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

There is a difference between gambling and making a "mystery/blind purchase." You are getting the items that are listed, every time you purchase the item. There is no potential for loss.

 

The potential loss would be buying 700 bags trying to get one particular item.

[CelCawdro]

The potential loss would be buying 700 bags trying to get one particular item.

 

I could also buy a billion bags of chips trying to find one shaped like Abraham Lincoln. It doesn't mean I'm gambling.

[Urael]

There is a difference between gambling and making a "mystery/blind purchase." You are getting the items that are listed, every time you purchase the item. There is no potential for loss.

 

Disagree. If the items are "worthless" to the person that obtained them then it is a loss.

 

Now before you argue that the person could wait till the bind timer expiers and then sell them, I counter with then the person "incurs a time sink" and a "new gamble" by playing the GTN which could be viewed as annoying by people that don't like to play the GTN mini-game.

 

I don't like lock boxes and never will. I don't even "buy" lotto "scratchers" for similar reasons, nor would I ever go to Los Vegas or any similar destination to "gamble" as a form of entertainment.

 

I can get "all the rush" I need PvPing ( I do PvP from time to time contrary to popular belief).

Edited October 24, 2012 by Urael

[CelCawdro]

Disagree. If the items are "worthless" to the person that obtained them then it is a loss.

 

Now before you argue that the person could wait till the bind timer expiers and then sell them, I counter with then the person "incurs a time sink" and a "new gamble" by playing the GTN which could be viewed as annoying by people that don't like to play the GTN mini-game.

 

I don't like lock boxes and never will. I don't even "buy" lotto "scratchers" for similar reasons, nor would I ever go to Los Vegas or any similar destination to "gamble" as a form of entertainment.

 

I can get "all the rush" I need PvPing ( I do PvP from time to time contrary to popular belief).

 

So you are stating that it is gambling because the purchaser decides that the intent of the item is something other than what is clearly stated?

[GnatB]

Off topic.

Gambling is only regulated so the the government gets their cut. No moral in there just to get paid. And since they are going to have it filed as income and taxed it is perfectly fine. All they need to follow is to state there is a 30 % chance or whatever for the drop and have that correctly set up in the code and there is nothing immoral about it.

 

Morality and Legality aren't always in sync. You're right in that regulation of gambling has nothing to do with morality, however gambling is frequently illegal on moral grounds. Not regulated, simply flat-out illegal.

 

Also, the reason why it's regulated is because there is usually some significant negative impact from gambling. So the "regular income tax" doesn't cover it. Especially since this is online, and thus said income tax isn't likely going to be going to the governments of the communities being negatively affected.

[DarthBuckets]

Anyone who has ever played a trading card game knows how this works.

 

There is some inherent risk of making some things exceptionally rare if the drop rates are not tuned correctly, but it looks like a fun scavenger hunt / trade / swap metagame to collect the stuff, and a good source of revenue for the company with little to no negative impacts on gameplay.

Edited October 24, 2012 by DarthBuckets

[GnatB]

I could also buy a billion bags of chips trying to find one shaped like Abraham Lincoln. It doesn't mean I'm gambling.

 

Actually, it does.

[Norsalith]

Disagree. If the items are "worthless" to the person that obtained them then it is a loss.

 

Now before you argue that the person could wait till the bind timer expiers and then sell them, I counter with then the person "incurs a time sink" and a "new gamble" by playing the GTN which could be viewed as annoying by people that don't like to play the GTN mini-game.

 

I don't like lock boxes and never will. I don't even "buy" lotto "scratchers" for similar reasons, nor would I ever go to Los Vegas or any similar destination to "gamble" as a form of entertainment.

 

I can get "all the rush" I need PvPing ( I do PvP from time to time contrary to popular belief).

Alright, so in this situation your definition of gambling is paying real currency for a 'chance' at an item you want.

 

We pay 15$ a month for a 'chance' at a particular item we want from HMs, raids, and REing items. By your standards the game itself should be a gamble. The RNG involved means we are paying 15$ but are not guaranteed the drops we desire.

 

The loot bags have a loot table. Some items are undoubtedly going to have a lower chance of spawning than others. But the bag is no different than a player buying a Flashpoint Loot pass. In fact it is the exact same due to the above statement that our subscription could 'technically' be considered gambling due tot he RNG nature of loot drops.

 

I guess if we are going to consider the loot bags as gambling, we need to consider every other RNG aspect of the game in the same light so long as we have to pay.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I could also buy a billion bags of chips trying to find one shaped like Abraham Lincoln. It doesn't mean I'm gambling.

 

I think it does, I think it also means you're insane, GET HELP! lol jk

Edited October 24, 2012 by Arlon_Nabarlly

[Urael]

So you are stating that it is gambling because the purchaser decides that the intent of the item is something other than what is clearly stated?

 

No it's gambling buy the mechanism in which it is implemented. Randomization implies a form of gambeling. In this case it really IS gambeling as you are trading IRL cash specifically for the randomized mechanism and the items they contain.

 

Alright, so in this situation your definition of gambling is paying real currency for a 'chance' at an item you want.

 

We pay 15$ a month for a 'chance' at a particular item we want from HMs, raids, and REing items. By your standards the game itself should be a gamble. The RNG involved means we are paying 15$ but are not guaranteed the drops we desire.

 

The loot bags have a loot table. Some items are undoubtedly going to have a lower chance of spawning than others. But the bag is no different than a player buying a Flashpoint Loot pass. In fact it is the exact same due to the above statement that our subscription could 'technically' be considered gambling due tot he RNG nature of loot drops.

 

I guess if we are going to consider the loot bags as gambling, we need to consider every other RNG aspect of the game in the same light so long as we have to pay.

 

No we pay $15 a month for a "service" that is an MMORPG. The IRL cash clearly goes to paying for the service not a specific "randomization" mechanism INSIDE the service. In the case of lock boxes you are paying IRL cash for the Lock box. The rest of my reasoning is above in my responce to CelCawdro. You are making inferences and conflating those with what I actually stated.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Urael