No, it really is a lot when you take into consideration the amount of coding and testing it would require. Sorry, I myself did not really read through the OP, just glossed over it. The (lack of) format was giving me a headache so I did not try. Also, no idea if you are talking about PvP, PvE or both. -_-

If bugs are enough to make you quit playing then you are not going to be any happier now. It is not as though the game is ever going to be bug free and they do take time to fix. (Meaning there may be times one would play an alt because their 'main' is unplayable to them.) Not really sure what you found 'world of warcraft-like' when the game launched. Get more creative. Think outside of the box to create new names. Or as someone said before, make use of accented characters. (Google 'accented characters' to learn how to type them or copy/paste if you must.) Two of my characters use an accented character because I really did not want to part with the name and it was taken after a server merge. (First come first serve, sigh.) Some names off the top of my head: Ro'Tith San'Dira Dânger'Mouse Etc Do you have to ask?

The amount of people who misunderstand the term "Gambling" amazes me. Gambling requires a bet with the hopes of increasing your monetary gain in some form. When you buy a pack of cards for any TCG, you get a random assortment of cards. X common, X uncommon, chance at 1 rare. This is NOT considered gambling, and in the same way the containers are not considered gambling. (Despite how people wish to call it such.) You are buying a container that has a random loot table. You are not betting on an outcome in order to increase your wealth.

I love how people keep mentioning a universal server rule. I myself was not aware of the case until I came across this thread. What does this tell you? That you should not rely on an unspoken "universal rule" to govern loot distributions. Anyone with standard common sense will roll greed for off-spec, credits, or companions. They will roll need on any item that is an immediate upgrade to what they currently have. This has been the defined 'proper group manners' since the early days of EverQuest in the very least. (For those that remember... FBSS groups.) However not everyone thinks with the same common sense, and with reason SWTOR makes it a little harder to define. Some people may consider companions a 'need' due to how often we use them. Sure, are companions are only useful to -me-, -myself- and -I-. But what if my mentality puts my companion's equipment and survivability on the same level as my main spec gear? I am not in the wrong for thinking this way and both parties are at fault for the lack of communication and clarification. The thread creator mentioned that s/he noted there were no rules mentioned at the start of the group or at any point. Why did s/he simply not ask if there was a preference? You will suffer similar problems when you are a pick-up' that gets thrown into a partial guild group. What if they are needing on companion gear and don't even think to consider that their PuG actually needs the gear? Different games generate different methods of acceptable loot practice. DCUO, it is not uncommon to get into a Duo or Alert and have one or two players rolling need on absolutely everything they are allowed to hit the button on. In WoW this practice is accepted at lower levels, but not tolerated very much in the higher level instances. Even in SWToR we are getting mixed responses. "Big deal, loot is plentiful." "Shame on you, you should know better!." these type of responses only indicates that SWToR has yet to fall into a comfort zone. -slightly sarcastic comment follows- Not to worry though, when the game goes Free to Play I am sure it will shift more towards "take everything you can," for a while.

Actually unlocking Action Bars makes more sense to me than having to unlock chat or trades. You can just as easily claim either of those two options are 'necessary' (considering the chat limits include party). Imagine a group of new players trying to run an instance and co-ordinate or explain fights with a chat limitation in place. The point is a lot of the features 'restricted' to the Free to Play model can be seen as necessary. If we can all survive on 2 bars than it makes SENSE to limit a Free to Play player's access to a single bar. Does it mean I personally agree with it? No. But it DOES make sense from a business stand point. Others have pointed out that you can get around the "one bar" problem without paying anything, if you are willing to keep your power window open. It will not take the Free to Play players long to figure this out on their own. I would like someone to prove that a Free to Play player is at a disadvantage before we start assuming they will be.

What do MMO players want? Aside from a golden crown, jeweled cloak, and a parade full of Darth floats in their name? The western world views Free to Play limitations differently than the Eastern world (which probably made the Free to Play micro transactions boom). But we still can't decide what is acceptable and what isn't in a micro transaction. If a company where to put cosmetic items on the store, people (Free to Play or Subscription) would complain that a non functional* item cost them real money. Yet if they start putting in items that affect the game play, such as gear that is better than the dropped BiS items, people continue to cause an uproar because the game now becomes a "Pay to Win" game. DCUO has some very annoying restrictions on their Free to Play accounts. Yet people still started playing it after it went F2P and made purchases. Yes the Free to Play system may not entice older players to return. Nothing short of full access for free would probably encourage them to "waste their time" after all. But Free to Play is designed to go after a different type of gamer. One who does not wish to spend 60+ on a game and then follow up with a subscription. These people don't tend to have a problem dropping 5$ here and there on the game for a perk or cosmetic item. These are the players that make Free to Play MMOs work in the first place. I have said it before, and I will say it many times over. There are a few things that could be done to suit the Western Free to Play model (two action bars). But the limitations they put in place are not as restrictive as some Free to Play games that exist. Is it one of the better ones? No, but it is not as close to the bottom of the barrel as people want to claim. *Termed as any item that gives you an in-game advantage through boosts to your stats, loot drops and so forth.

Or the players who are unwilling to purchase more Action Bars can be creative and keep their Ability Window open while they are fighting...

It affects the market, which affects me. Gold sellers often get their currency by robbing other players. These players may not necessarily be active anymore, but all this money which was considered 'out of circulation' is suddenly back in circulation. This fluctuates the value of the currency and raises prices a great deal. See above. A sudden fluctuation of currency in the economy will cause prices to raise. The problem is only the few who buy gold will be able to comfortably afford the prices (worst case scenario). For people who do not spend hours doing dailies, this will make it harder for them to get an item they want... because of the increased prices. Spam. Active sales pitches (aka harassment) from these gold 'salesmen'. Bots interfering with quests, rare spawns, instances, war-zones, etc. And most importantly, an increased interest in these gold sellers in hacking/scamming/phishing a players account. (And while you can easily say "they shouldn't be idiots" I can just as easily say "Because it's against the ToS, you don't need a 'game play disruption' reason".)

The item you buy from the shop gives you a token, this is how it reads (Sith as an example): Sith Quantity: 1 Requires Level 10 Use: Applies the selected unlock to your Player Character or to your account. Unlocks this species as a choice for all classes at character creation. The one you buy from the Cartel shop can be used at character level 10 (legacy needs to be unlocked, but does not need to be level 10) and unlocks the species to use in character creation. Once you unlock your legacy the species will show up as unlocked. The other ways to unlock the races are: paying 1.5 million credits OR getting that race to level 50.

Someone has to pay real currency in order to trade the item for credits to someone else. So the point of paying real currency is to get the items into the market in the first place. Or have I misunderstood the question?

Right now people are twisting the term 'gambling' to suit their own needs. You are not purchasing the boxes/bags (whatever) with the intent of a chance to increase your monetary Wealth. You are simply buying an item with a random loot table.

Incorrect, gambling requires some monetary value in return. The bags, in effect, have no equal monetary value. You cannot cash them in for x amount of real world currency. So in a legal point of view it is not gambling. We pay $15 to play the game. We 'rent' our characters and the server space. We 'rent' that space to improve our characters and enjoy the game. However this 'service' includes the 'chance' to obtain items. In other words gambling is, by your view point, a service we pay for while playing the game. Just because it is not as clear cut as buying the lock boxes, which does guarantee some item(s) of value equaling or surpassing the value of what you payed, does not mean it does not fall into your definition. Then again, I have to wonder at my sanity as I am trying to debate with someone who uses 'smilies' in their arguments.

Alright, so in this situation your definition of gambling is paying real currency for a 'chance' at an item you want. We pay 15$ a month for a 'chance' at a particular item we want from HMs, raids, and REing items. By your standards the game itself should be a gamble. The RNG involved means we are paying 15$ but are not guaranteed the drops we desire. The loot bags have a loot table. Some items are undoubtedly going to have a lower chance of spawning than others. But the bag is no different than a player buying a Flashpoint Loot pass. In fact it is the exact same due to the above statement that our subscription could 'technically' be considered gambling due tot he RNG nature of loot drops. I guess if we are going to consider the loot bags as gambling, we need to consider every other RNG aspect of the game in the same light so long as we have to pay.

..... You are complaining about cosmetic fluff? Complaining that in addition to the normal perks you get for being a subscriber (as in your game play will not change in anyway once it goes F2P if you currently (and continue) to subscribe) you 'only' get 500 cartel coins a month? Right now we don't get any kind of a monthly credit allowance, so it is a perk to continue subscribing after the game goes F2P. Not a cheat, or a rip off, a perk. A 'thank you'. But people will see it as they wish. For some reason folks get pissed off over cosmetic fluff that in no way affects game play. People on Tera went haywire when permanent bathing suits were up on the store when the in-game event ones were temporary. Everyone wants the cool fluff for free or no work. No mater what someone is going to complain, and do so very very loudly. I wish they'd use some thought in their complaints instead of just foaming at the mouth and typing what ever string of words enters their mind.

Praising a game's good points is not necessarily being a 'fanboy' of the game. And would be rather key to let those of us know what you actually think would work. The problem that comes up, again and again, is the fault of the players and not the game mechanics itself. A lot of players like the lack of responsibility that comes with DPSing, and so MMO games will ALWAYS have a surplus of them. They have a need to be 'top' of the chart, something you rarely do when you are tanking or healing. To be honest, I'd like to see classic UO come back... but the type of person that plays MMOs today make it impossible. Trying new things can (and has) been the downfall of MMOs in the past. The only way to remove this issue with LFG ques is to remove roles all together. But this does not necessarily work well. Think GW2, running the instance with a group of thieves is possible but slow and sometimes very painful. There will be a few 'elite' players who can still do it quickly without a problem, but as a whole the "No Role" concept simply does not work out flawlessly in this game. (Don't mistake this for bashing GW2, I think it is an enjoyable game.) A lot of the big MMO gaming companies do keep an eye on new projects. Elder Scrolls Online, for example, promises a no class type of game play. But the question remains if it will require you to fill a certain roll if instances/group zones exist. If there are no roles to 'fill' the next question is 'how well does it work'. If a company were to stumble upon the solution, I can almost promise that other MMOs would adopt the solution in some way as quickly as possible. (Mimicry is the greatest form of flattery after all). But instead of removing roles, why not simply 'opt' a larger group (slightly harder instance) and allow more DPS into said group? For example if we have 2 tanks and 2 healers in que, but 9 dps, you will have 5 people sitting out until the next tank and healer que up. But if the system were to place 4 dps in the group (making it a group of 6) you would only have 1 dps sitting out. The problem would be coding such a system. The problem would be adjusting current flashpoints. The problem would be balancing loot to compensate for more players. (Same amount of loot but more players never ends well.) Quite honestly my solution is this; Get more people to play as tanks/healers and que up.

If they didn't let anyone wear it, people would uproar. (It would not be 'fair'.) If it did not have the potential to be better than that BiS item, people would uproar. (It would sit in the bank.) If they introduced it with a story, people would uproar. (They have to 'work' to get it.) If it had too many awesome abilities/hindrances, people would uproar. (It would be 'Pay to Win' at that point.) You get the idea I hope. No mater what they do someone is going to be upset. It was implemented as cosmetic fluff, and honestly that is the main reason the majority want it. Yes, it seems a little odd with the 'how' in obtaining the mask. But what stops you from imagining or writing your own variation as to 'how'? Seems more fun than a default story that may or may not be 'out of character' for my character. I approve of this explanation.

They are 'optional' (fluff, cosmetic, fun and so forth). Besides they can be traded after x amount of time when the item becomes unbound. The price will be high, no doubt, but you do not have to pay real currency for a 'gamble' to get the 'cool' item you want.

To be fair, they paid extra money to have the right to exclusive items. So they are not out of line in their fears that the items they payed extra money for will be in the shop. If the items are placed in the shop at a price that compensates the amount they spent on the CE in the first place, complaints will be minimal. That is to say, to buy all of the original CE items, it would add up to 100 USD give or take the value of the statue. The problem will come if the items a) have a combined worth well under 100 USD or b) the items are account wide instead of character specific (as the CE vender items are character specific). People who have the CE versions will never have to pay real currency for the items. So long as they continue adding items to the CE vendor (perhaps 1 in 5 cosmetic they add to the shop?) CE players would have no arguable reason to be upset. What others have to pay real currency for, they can easily buy with credits. So I think the larger issue is, will Bioware (or EA, whomever is in charge of this aspect) do the smart thing and add items to the CE vendor side by side with the shop?

I am sorry. "25% alone from cartel shop will not be enough," makes me giggle. 25% is better than 0%, which is what a new player has in terms of exp boosts. (And not all new players will spend real money on the Cartel for the 25% boost.) I will try to pay attention next time I'm on test to see if they stack though. It is a valid question.

...Financially yes DCUO going F2P saved it. But a look at the general community will give you a different outlook on it. The restrictions still seem pretty lenient compared to some F2P games (or P2W) that are out there. So if we were looking at it in a new player's point of view, one who has played other F2P mmos perhaps, I would imagine it would be something like this: Limited Character Creation Choice: Ah dang, I can't use this race/class? Darn it all! Oh well I guess I'll just play as this... Limited Access to Operations: What is an operation? Oh a raid? LOL I'm not even 50 yet so I don't have to worry yet! Limited Warzones: 3 per week? That isn't really fair. I like to PvP, why is my PvP ability limited of all things? Limited Flashpoints: I can only get loot thrice a week without paying? Okay that's just no fair. Limited Space Missions: They are fun... but nothing to write home about. -shrugs- Limited Cargo Hold: I was hoping this game wouldn't limit my inventory like other F2P games. Oh well. Limited Inventory: (see above) Limited Crew Skills: Tradeskill limitations? That is rather bogus. Limited Quick Travel: Oh heck, you can quick travel at all in this game? I don't have to run from point A to point B every time? Don't like the long CD but still... I guess I can pay for a reduced CD. Limited Emergency Fleet Pass: Used to running around anyway. But I may just purchase this to make life easier. Limited Death: Oh, I can revive at the spot where I died? NICE! Oh, only 5 times? I better be careful. (Is it five times total or... every so often?) Limited Game Login: No priority in the queue? Well that's normal. Hasn't affected me yet. Limited Item Equipping: I have to buy a license in order to equip purple items? That is annoying. If the 'potential new player' happens to be of the entitled sort however, every feature would be responded with, "Why do I have to PAY for that? I should get it for free because I'm playing."

Because the MMO world has been flooded by console players who don't understand what an MMO is supposed to be. Let me ask something in return, why do we have a problem with people "rushing through content too quickly"? It was not always an issue. Again, sad as it is to admit, this is because the people who play MMOs don't want to have to group with other people. Anyone who played classic UO and early EverQuest can validate the statement that having to play with other people hardly ruined the game. But then you didn't have dime a dozen MMOs coming out every other month trying to draw in on the 'new' MMO gamer. Most people, won't be upset if you have to go AFK, especially if you simply say 'brb, kids fighting' or 'brb, just heard something break'. Those "random idiots' are not all children (and I should feel insulted that a 'career man/woman' would resort to such an insult when they had no proof of it. I am sorry but the "I have a life..." excuse doesn't fly in my book. Does your family depend on you so much that you are not even granted 30-60 minutes to yourself a night? If that is all it would take to get one Flash Point done, then you can easily break it down over several days and get it done without a problem and without "having to go afk on groups 2-3 times.) I disagree. Your type, who assume another player is a child just because of how they act, is why a lot of people (myself at least) prefer going solo rather than grouping. I dislike being called a troll or a child because I have a different opinion (or in some cases a logical one) thus I am a "Solo player". I prefer playing the game at my own pace. But even I have no problem what so ever with the fact that the new companion will require me to group with folks. There is no logical reason to complain about 'having to group' for the Flash Points for the companion.

You realize it is your own fault if something becomes 'boring', right? Sounds quite spoiled to me. Taking three weeks off just to play a game? What, and you don't think World of Warcraft suffered from any of these problems at the start (and progressively through the past years)? World of Warcraft suffered such problems that the game was unplayable (literally it was offline...) for days at a time, and the patching process would take up to a week at times. Go smack yourself a few times for opening your mouth about how many bugs a newly released MMO has. I am frankly tired of hearing your kind claim that such a thing is unacceptable. You have no sense of reality. And yet, here you are again on the SW:ToR forums. Proper... MMO... combat? World of Warcraft doesn't have "Proper" combat. It has accepted combat which enables you to be lazy and auto attack something to death. Is it a bad system? Not really. But it is not the "Proper" system. Actually it is far from ideal and has it's own bugs and flaws (which you're lovely broken rose colored glasses are allowing you to ignore). So basically... you're trolling. Instead of complaining about how bad the game is when it first comes out... why don't you vehemently report bugs and all the details surrounding the situation so these horrible, awful bugs can be... oh... I don't know. Fixed?

You apparently quit. But you are still willing to come around and throw in your opinion. You have the makings of a fine troll upon you.

I never played DAoC so comparing notes to it would have been moronic. I could have also brought up the PvP UO. Though it was there, in terms of "purpose" it was lacking. It was used mainly for RP and looting another player after a few hours of dragon hunting. The point, however, was that the game everyone keeps wanting SWToR to be did not start out as flawless as everyone seems to have deluded themselves into thinking. On top of that the one feature everyone wanted (PvP) had no purpose in this "all mighty game" until half a year later and even then it was some time until Battlegrounds were implemented. The only thing World of Warcraft had as an advantage was the fact that MMOs were still fairly limited. It was the same thing that enabled people to deal with the crap that annoyed them in EverQuest and Ultima Online. (Or, most of you have short attention spans.) Each person who claims WoW's launch wasn't nearly this bad... you show your ignorance. If you cannot remember the loot lag, or 'emergency maintenance' which lasted days at a time there is an issue. And the problem persisted prior to launch during beta. So... Please tell me again how ToR's launch was horrible compared to World of Warcraft and how it is a bad game because after three months you complain that they will not give you both bug fixes and new content right now. -Note- "You" is generalized and not really intended towards any one person(s) -End Note-

Lets get this strait. PvP with a purpose was introduced in World of Warcraft on 2005-05-05. World of Warcraft launched on 2004-11-23. So 6 months -after- a game comes out (that is designed around faction A vs faction B) purposeful PvP comes into play. By purposeful, I mean you gained something other than a malicious giggle from killing someone. Star Wars The Old Republic was launched on 2011-12-20 (sorry, pre-order perk doesn't count) and had a purposeful PvP system in place. Both started with bugs. One, even after 7 years, is still so unbalanced (PvP wise) that it isn't worth complaining about anymore. Seems to me like most of you 'hard core' PvPers are just crying because you rushed to the top and now have nothing to do until fixes/additions come into play. (If coding this game were as easy as 1-2-3 I'm sure we'd have had many fixes/changes already. If you can do it faster/more effective then pray tell apply to work for them and prove it.) 1. "Ranked PvP" Only if disconnecting AND ditching a match for any reason counts against you big time. Ranked anything makes people crude at best and I'd rather not see the string of insults and scuttlebutt that plagued World of Warcraft battlegrounds and made it unpleasant. Not to mention something in place to deal with dead weight. (I've already run into fools who refused to help their team because they had guild mates on the other team.) 2. New tiers ....The game has only been out for a short time. Development (good development) takes a little more time than that. Especially if you want them to be able to fix the problems you cry about. I've no idea what you think coding a game entitles, or why you think testing a code is capable of being flawless... but you should probably smack that thought out of your head right now. 3. Dedicated PvPers You know, if they would stop whining and /quiting... it would be more productive for the evolution of the PvP in SWToR. Instead of being vehement about particular problems (gathering data and reporting it consistently) they cry about it, threaten to leave, and then do so when the problem isn't fixed the next day. "Shed more tears, my young apprentice." As I said, coding takes time. Figuring out what to code takes even more time. By this I mean figuring out how to put something in without affecting something else. Fine, they managed to put in a new tier (and you "Dedicated PvPers" then complain that it looks bland or common place even though you wanted it 'now') but for some reason the item ID on the Jedi Knight gloves decides to go wonky on a call string and it shows up for Korriban Commendations... Case and point: Coding takes time. More time than you "Dedicated PvPers" seem capable of waiting. Learn some patience already.