Stupid F2P Restrictions

[Urael]

There is a flat fee for this content. $15 per month it's simple really.

 

Agreed.

 

Even if EAware had options for something like:

 

Space (Space Missions) only

PvP (Wzs) only

PvE (Ops and FPs) only

 

For $10 flat fee so that you would have one of the above three fully unlocked unlocked and the rest as a sub. There would still be those that WOULD complain for the reasons you have stated in this thread.

 

People just want free stuff. Now that the thread is sufficiently large I will apply Goretzu's Law and toss out the word:

 

Entitlement. No more needs be said.

 

[Coldin]

It's still a subscription based model so this has no likelihood of happening. Sorry.

 

Well, I'm saying. Their subscription model really hasn't done them many favors. In some respects, this model they are putting forth is just like mini-subscriptions. What we're going to see is players paying for a couple weeks of passes. And then they leave.

[gofortheko]

I dont see how this f2p model is supposed to entice players back, any ex-player who is looking to return but has been put off by the sub is not going to come back to this highly restricted and limited sub set of the game, are they?

 

http://www.swtor.com/free/features is about as vague and un-informative as BW get, do we assume that the full set of f2p restrictions are to apply to returning players too or only to new sign ups? Lotro had an additional f2p option where existing players returning did not lose anything, sure they didnt get a full set of character slots but they didn't get ONE only, they could use any items they had, yes they were locked out of some content without the appropriate purchase but it allowed anyone to come back, get back into the game and either buy access or resub. It worked. I cant see how this is going to work at all.

 

At best its a free trial of the 1-50 levelling experience, after that its sub or quit, you have no where near enough access to the game in f2p to have any sort of enjoyable game play experience IMHO. And isn't that the point? to create a free access path that will let people experience the game and want to buy access or a sub? so why create a path with so many gates over some pretty petty things too?

 

the 1 to 50 experience is pretty good, generally accepted to be the games strength, its got almost nothing to do with the level 50 experience at all, many many times people have remarked that they are two games grafted onto each other.

 

Sorry BW, but I don't think you have grasped the point of this at all.

 

 

Sorry but BW is interested in new players, not old ones who have quit. Giving them the pre 50 game is fine, if you want more you pay, either in sub or in cartel points. I dont see whats so hard to understand. They are running a business not a charity.

[Rafaman]

Lol. I'm a sub and plan to continue as such. I find it ironic that there are seemingly complaints about F2P being too restrictive. Err... your choices are pretty clear in my book. Pay or don't pay. lol.

 

A few things that have been commented on.

 

1. No sprint at level 1 without unlocking it with cartel coins. Not an issue... my first few characters were exactly this way. You want to sprint sooner rather than later? Your option.

 

2. Weekly FPs pass. The argument that peeps don't run enough FPs and therefore this restriction is stupid is... stupid. I know peeps that will only run fps if it were and option, especially when gearing up and most importantly after capping. A weekly pass will work nicely.

 

As for the rest? whatever... The more options the better for those that want to F2P. And if you find it too restrictive... well sheezz you might just have to pay 15 bucks for a month to get your fill.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Rafaman

[Slugamaniac]

The sheer amount of entitlement in this threat is, quite frankly, astounding. Are people really this spoiled AND can't afford a $15.00 a month sub to keep playing? x 10000

[Hekati]

So your suggestion is just to cut the subscription price in half.....

 

F2P is not for people who have been playing for the last 10 months and have several 50's all pimped out, F2P is for new players or players who didn't stick with SWTOR to even get to 50 due to fee's to give SWTOR another shot, Bioware's hope is with new content being added that people will subscribe to the game...

 

The complaints I'm seeing are from existing customers who have been playing the game the last 10 months that now want a FREE subscription yet keep basically everything they have... like that makes any sense from a business perspective....

 

This F2P setup is only for:

1) New Players who never tried a MMO or people who want to try it before leaving there existing MMO

2) To get Players who left shortly after launch to give it another shot

3) People who can't play 24/7 and only maybe play 1-2 weeks out of a month

 

For people who want to play on a regular basis it only makes sense to subscribe to the game...

 

The people complaining are just existing players who are trying to figure out how to get something for nothing, if they didn't like the game or didn't think it was worth paying for they would of left a long time ago. There just hoping by complaining they can get Bioware to give them more game for free...

 

All of the this^^. And trust me, I'm not rolling in dough by any means, but if you really want the full experience, there has to be a way to scrape up $15/month. Do your grocery shopping at Dollar Tree. Clip coupons. Skip Starbucks. Because if you're able to afford the Internet access that you need to play for free, you can manage another $15/month. JMO, of course.

[Tommot]

Wasn't the purpose of the F2P model to attract people to the game who weren't willing/able to pay the $15 a month? If so, then I don't know what they're thinking with these limitations. BW/EA is essentially just creating an extended trial version of the game. I'll still be paying my subscription, but I'm no longer going to try to convince my friends to come play this with me once F2P goes live anymore. Why? Because I know they'd hate it.

 

The reason for that is because of how obviously frustrating all these limitations are. Placing a limited number of deaths for local revival will do nothing but create a reduction in the amount of fun a player can have (along with many of the other restrictions). People who are new to the game are going to die more than the rest of us. In BWs mind, I guess they think this will incentivize them to buy the pass or even subscribe, in reality it will just cause frustration and make people quit.

 

Give them a REAL taste of the game so people actually stick around long enough to realize the game is actually very fun. It's nearly impossible to have fun with these kinds of restrictions and will cause people to quit before they're even able to realize what a great game this is.

 

Please reconsider some of these restrictions. I want this game to succeed and I really think it can if this is done correctly.

[Blarpped]

It's pretty obvious they want to make playing the game inconvenient for F2P players so those players will become frustrated and spend money or sub. That's a pretty bold assumption since most gamers will just find another, less restrictive, F2P game to play. If I become frustrated playing a game, I don't think to myself, "Well, I'll just give them some more of my money." I quit. I don't think such a restrictive model is going to help this game at all.

 

Entice gamers to come play F2P. Let them have access to everything. Put fluff and some legacy perks in the cash shop. Don't punish them for trying to play. Don't restrict content. Bah, I'm not sure what I expected from EA, but I thought F2P might see this game get some legs again.

[PlagaNerezza]

So your suggestion is just to cut the subscription price in half.....

 

F2P is not for people who have been playing for the last 10 months and have several 50's all pimped out, F2P is for new players or players who didn't stick with SWTOR to even get to 50 due to fee's to give SWTOR another shot, Bioware's hope is with new content being added that people will subscribe to the game...

 

The complaints I'm seeing are from existing customers who have been playing the game the last 10 months that now want a FREE subscription yet keep basically everything they have... like that makes any sense from a business perspective....

 

This F2P setup is only for:

1) New Players who never tried a MMO or people who want to try it before leaving there existing MMO

2) To get Players who left shortly after launch to give it another shot

3) People who can't play 24/7 and only maybe play 1-2 weeks out of a month

 

For people who want to play on a regular basis it only makes sense to subscribe to the game...

 

The people complaining are just existing players who are trying to figure out how to get something for nothing, if they didn't like the game or didn't think it was worth paying for they would of left a long time ago. There just hoping by complaining they can get Bioware to give them more game for free...

 

I don't care about f2p. All I am saying is that I only experience by biowares own admission being a pvp player 1/3 the game. Yet I pay full price per month. So let me pay for half, which I am 100% sure that when all is said and done with the game is going to be possible with f2p and cartel coins.

 

Instead of having a ton of nonsense just make it simple. Oh first I have to buy purple access. Now I have to buy weekly pvp pass. Maybe I buy the expanded inventory or bank.

 

What does that cost per month?

 

Now what does a monthly fee cost?

 

How does that help them?

 

Its going to end up costing them.

[OsarionRDM]

You get what you pay for.

[Durasturan]

You get what you pay for.

 

LOL. Looks like someone doesn't understand how a post-industrial economy works.

[MoltenRog]

Once again quite a few people are lost, I still pay for this game, this is mainly aimed at new players and the impacts on returning players, not all restrictions apply to both, some people in this thread have used their brain and made valid points, others have just gone on to try and troll me by saying, I should start paying for a game i already pay for and that my points are invalid because they don't exist, even though its on the main website.

 

So when this game goes free to play, will we see it on steam or will EA boast that Origin still has potential although it fails in all categories.

Edited October 17, 2012 by MoltenRog

[Trews]

SWTOR is competing for money against many other compelling games. $15 may be a pittance, but it's $15 I could be spending elsewhere for more content. I could go over to GW2 right now, and play as much PVP as I wanted, and it wouldn't cost me a single extra cent.

 

And when F2P hits, you'll be able to come over to SWTOR and play all the amazing voiced over story content you want (that you can't get in GW2)

 

It works both ways.

[DarthMeerkat]

It's pretty obvious they want to make playing the game inconvenient for F2P players so those players will become frustrated and spend money or sub. That's a pretty bold assumption since most gamers will just find another, less restrictive, F2P game to play. If I become frustrated playing a game, I don't think to myself, "Well, I'll just give them some more of my money." I quit. I don't think such a restrictive model is going to help this game at all.

 

Entice gamers to come play F2P. Let them have access to everything. Put fluff and some legacy perks in the cash shop. Don't punish them for trying to play. Don't restrict content. .

 

It's obvious you've never played LOTRO or EQII.

 

In LOTRO, you had to pay money to unlock their taxi system and unlock zones to level also (Until recently) you could do no monster play at all (and even now its restrictive).

 

In EQ 2 is what they seem to be modeling this after, in it everything was doable save for crap like bank slots character slot money you can have ext ext. Problem was you had to pay to equip gear you found in dungeons. This sucked once they added a dungeon finder, master craft also made PvPing as a F2P or even silver member pretty unbalanced.

 

Assuming the price to unlock a weekly (or even daily) pass to unlimited WZ/FP is reasonable, something along the lines of 2-4$ a week, we should be good.

 

My suggestion to Bioware would be to have something of a silver member ship like EQII had, it would be a one time purchase that would lax the restrictions a bit, say 5 or 6 WZ and FP a week.

[Durasturan]

Plenty. Do you really think F2P games earn their money solely from subscriptions? Subscribers are only part of the equation. As I understand it, DDO/LOTRO/STO are all doing just fine by giving their F2P's new purchasable content. In fact, LOTRO just launched it's new expansion with hundreds of new quests, and people purchased that gladly.

 

I've had positive experiences with both DDO and LOTRO and if SWTOR was using their models I would be more than optimistic about their chances at success. But it's almost like they took a look at most models and said "NAH, let's take this to the extreme of nickle and diming the customer."

 

Paying for content is good.

Paying for systems is bad, because without those systems the game becomes boring, frustrating, and slow. People get angry and quit.

 

I really wish they took a closer look at DDO and LOTRO and followed their approaches...

[kirorx]

HERE IS MY PROBLEM THE WAY F2P HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED

 

John Riccitiello (EA's CEO) had been pretty clear several months ago that he believed that the paid models would not work in the future and that F2P would be way to find success in MMOs. Yet even after F2P was announced, we are still in all reality a P2P game.

 

Rather than adopting an actual F2P model for ALL of us, in which the company makes money off micro transactions. They have actually taken away so much content that F2P is not viable and despite EA's CEO claiming that subscription games are going to the wayside in a world of F2P games, they have come up with a way to force SWTOR to continue as a P2P game but with micro transactions that will, and you can quote me later, be a huge part of this games future.

 

Here is some stuff from EA's CEO

http://www.rantgaming.com/2012/07/23...usiness-model/

 

This guy loves money and getting you to part with it, is what the future holds.

 

If you think your going to stay P2P and only pay 15 dollars a month, think again. You will pay for the content you have been paying for since January and you will also be nickle and dimed to no end.

 

DO NOT FORGET THIS :

[Coldin]

I really wish they took a closer look at DDO and LOTRO and followed their approaches...

 

Indeed. But it looks like they looked towards EQ2 instead. And I really haven't heard any positive things about EQ2's F2P.

[Urael]

HERE IS MY PROBLEM THE WAY F2P HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED

 

John Riccitiello (EA's CEO) had been pretty clear several months ago that he believed that the paid models would not work in the future and that F2P would be way to find success in MMOs. Yet even after F2P was announced, we are still in all reality a P2P game.

 

Rather than adopting an actual F2P model for ALL of us, in which the company makes money off micro transactions. They have actually taken away so much content that F2P is not viable and despite EA's CEO claiming that subscription games are going to the wayside in a world of F2P games, they have come up with a way to force SWTOR to continue as a P2P game but with micro transactions that will, and you can quote me later, be a huge part of this games future.

 

Here is some stuff from EA's CEO

http://www.rantgaming.com/2012/07/23...usiness-model/

 

This guy loves money and getting you to part with it, is what the future holds.

 

If you think your going to stay P2P and only pay 15 dollars a month, think again. You will pay for the content you have been paying for since January and you will also be nickle and dimed to no end.

 

DO NOT FORGET THIS :

 

Another way of looking at how EAware is "implementing Freemium" is to look at it like this:

 

The Stand alone RPG is "Free up to 50" (face it you don't NEED to group to level to 50 just like in an RPG). The MMORPG feature is for a subscription -OR- on a fee per service schedule to only select those portions of the MMORPG feature that you want to play. It is another implementation of Freemium. Besides do you "really" think that EAware listens to ANYTHING we have to say about HOW THEY RUN THIER BUISNESS in threads on their forums? As you pointed out it's all about the benjimins. $$

[SeneaViola]

I've had positive experiences with both DDO and LOTRO and if SWTOR was using their models I would be more than optimistic about their chances at success. But it's almost like they took a look at most models and said "NAH, let's take this to the extreme of nickle and diming the customer."

 

Paying for content is good.

Paying for systems is bad, because without those systems the game becomes boring, frustrating, and slow. People get angry and quit.

 

I really wish they took a closer look at DDO and LOTRO and followed their approaches...

 

I came from lotro, to this game i prefer the setup for this one, when you have to pay for each area when f2p, and even though i sub for that game i still have to pay for new content like rohan. plus sub for this game is way cheaper the lotro, and more entertaining, not a bunch of reading text either.

[Durasturan]

HERE IS MY PROBLEM THE WAY F2P HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED

 

John Riccitiello (EA's CEO) had been pretty clear several months ago that he believed that the paid models would not work in the future and that F2P would be way to find success in MMOs. Yet even after F2P was announced, we are still in all reality a P2P game.

 

Rather than adopting an actual F2P model for ALL of us, in which the company makes money off micro transactions. They have actually taken away so much content that F2P is not viable and despite EA's CEO claiming that subscription games are going to the wayside in a world of F2P games, they have come up with a way to force SWTOR to continue as a P2P game but with micro transactions that will, and you can quote me later, be a huge part of this games future.

 

Here is some stuff from EA's CEO

http://www.rantgaming.com/2012/07/23...usiness-model/

 

This guy loves money and getting you to part with it, is what the future holds.

 

If you think your going to stay P2P and only pay 15 dollars a month, think again. You will pay for the content you have been paying for since January and you will also be nickle and dimed to no end.

 

DO NOT FORGET THIS :

 

This this this this this this this!

 

Those three or four dozen orange sets that were in the game at beta and then taken out... those get to go in boxes that SUBBED players have to BET real money to get. New speeder models, companion skins, you name it. Subs are gonna be pissed when they see just how many items are going up on the Cartel Shop as opposed to being stuck in game.

 

They figured out a way to make their subs pay MORE money on top of the sub for items they otherwise would have gotten while at the same time nickle and diming F2Pers for everything from dying to changing their pants. It's the most insidious and absurd model ever and I don't see how they can believe it will work in the long run.

[Durasturan]

I came from lotro, to this game i prefer the setup for this one, when you have to pay for each area when f2p, and even though i sub for that game i still have to pay for new content like rohan. plus sub for this game is way cheaper the lotro, and more entertaining, not a bunch of reading text either.

 

What you mean to say is you like how it is NOW. The new free to model they are implementing looks like it's going to take all the worst aspects of LOTRO and multiply them by adding them ON TOP of a standard $15 sub.

 

This game will not be truly a la carte because you will NEED at least three or four things on top of what you WANT just to make the things you want actually work.

[errant_knight]

Free to play is an addition to the subscription model, not a replacement. Subscribers can't be made to feel that there's no point in subscribing, and many subscribers won't want a f2p model imposed on them. I, for one, avoid f2p like the plague. I'm baffled as to why some people prefer it. You're still paying, it's a business not a charity. You have a choice. F2p where you have restrictions, but can conceivably play free if you accept restrictions, or subscription, where you get everything, unlimited, for a very reasonable cost for the available gameplay. Flailing because you don't get the whole game for free is kind of missing the point.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

It MAY turn away SOME players who are looking to play a totally FREE MMORPG. It most definately will attract the players that liked KoTOR and "introduce" them to what an MMORPG is all about.

 

Basically, you are getting the "stand alone RPG" for free but to fully experience the "MMORPG" part of SWTOR you have to sub. AS. IT. SHOULD. BE!

 

If there is any KoToR people out there that haven't looked at this game already, they probably won't either. The game is already been free to 15 for months now. They already looked and moved on.

[Durasturan]

There are no "free games" one pays is some form or another. What form of payment that one can stomach is about the MARGINAL UTILITY that the product and form of payment yeilds. This can be subjective. What is good for you may not be so for another and vice versa. If this model doesn't work. They will change it or shut down the game. At this point I don't care what they do. I will pay a sub until it shuts down because that is "less painful" to me ( and I suspect others ) than to have to pay piecemeal.

 

If it fails then the market has spoken. EAware will be forced to adabt or shutdown SWTOR. Again I don't care which happens any more concerning the success or failure of SWTOR. SWTOR with patch 1.4 stopped being my "primary slot" MMORPG and is now my back up.

 

No free games? lol ok. I have at least 3 right now that I have not paid a penny for and likely never will. They make their money through advertising and charging for cosmetics etc that people that are crazy about the game will.

 

Considering your change in tune I can only conclude you're either trying to backpedal, didn't understand what you were actually saying, or a ridiculous and pointless troll. In any event I'm done having this absurd conversation, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are just talking to see your name in print.

[AceMcVeer]

If the smart gamer subs, then why are they even bothering to add a F2P model? Just add the cartel shop, and stop trying to sell players on a bad deal. Because currently, that's what this F2P model is. A very bad deal.

 

Something you get completely for free is a bad deal? That makes absolutely no sense. The amount of game that you get completely for free is in fact a pretty good deal. Find me a PS3 or XBOX game where you can get a game with this much stuff for free.

 

The change was designed to bring more players in as well as increase revenue. Giving everyone everything for free and then hoping they spend at least $15 a month with microtransactions buying pets or funny looking hats would be a pretty poor business decision and lead into less development and expansion of the game and THAT would be a bad deal for us all.