Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[UncelSam]

This is a mulitplayer game! They should encourage players to team up! If you want to play singleplayer you are most welcome but dont expect it to be better than teaming up with some friends or online player-friends.

 

Cmon guys.. This is common sense!

 

Why benefit and reward ppl for hiding in powerhealer teams? Wouldnt it be more locic to reward ppl who has the power to be selfmade warhero rather than depending on others likea leech?

[Arlanon]

they should just dedicate one server to stupid people

 

it will be called "Stupid People" server

 

y'all can have a free transfer there

[DariusCalera]

I beg to differ... There have been many times I have gone up against a premade, Done "everything right" (I.E. fought on node, targeted healer, And used Ops chat) and not gotten a single Comm. But maybe this IS my fault... I call Incs, place markers on healers, try to coordinate in ops chat, know my class, etc... Maybe Im doing it wrong?

 

The whole point most of us solo queuers are trying to make is that it shouldn't be MANDATORY to form a premade just to have a little fun. If you cant at least concede that point, then you just need to stop posting, cause you are completely one sided and wont get anywhere here.

 

No where did I say that it would work every time and no where did I say anything was mandatory. As I stated before, I solo queue almost exclusively simply because of time restraints and timing conflicts with the guild that I am in.

 

It is not a guaranteed win whenever you use OPs chat, call incs, mark healers, etc. but it does greatly increase your chances of winning. I, like you, have been in WZs where I didn't get a thing but it wasn't because I was facing a premade. I've had it happen when facing other PUGs.

 

Why did, or does, it happen sometimes? Well, sometimes, the other team is just better and making a solo queue only option is not going to change that.

 

This is something that a lot of people don't seem to understand.

 

If BW did introduce a solo queue only WZ bracket and people still get rolled, whose fault is it then?

[UncelSam]

The major benefit of the premade teams is their huge uberheals and healers who are guarded by tanks. This composition very rarly comes around in randomized teams. Often you dont have a single heal in random teams. Premade teams has often two very good healers.

 

Premade teams also have very gear due to thier previous successes in the WZs. The success comes from well balanced teams with excellent healers, as mentioned.

[Theodulus]

This is a mulitplayer game! They should encourage players to team up! If you want to play singleplayer you are most welcome but dont expect it to be better than teaming up with some friends or online player-friends.

 

Cmon guys.. This is common sense!

I agree. Remove normal warzone all together. If you can't get 8 people together in an ops group to queue for PvP then you might be an asocial freak that needs to see a shrink regularly. This is a multiplayer game, not some 1 to 4 casual co-op cowadoody care bear game.

[Dierdrea]

I agree. Remove normal warzone all together. If you can't get 8 people together in an ops group to queue for PvP then you might be an asocial freak that needs to see a shrink regularly. This is a multiplayer game, not some 1 to 4 casual co-op cowadoody care bear game.

 

Yes, like 8 pugged or even 7 guild players with 1 pugged ranked groups will win consistently against any regular ranked teams... most people will just quit pvp if this happens. Against good 8 ppl teams, that 1 pugged is going to ruin your day.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Dierdrea

[TonyDragonflame]

Enough just look on population "pure" PvP servers - all of them slowly dieing.

 

Wanna just say - "gg, BW", good luck with this game in future with this approach to PvP...

[UncelSam]

I find it odd Bioware still havent commented the issue with a single word.

[sanchito]

Even if it was a same faction match, how are casual pvpers going to react when they have to wait 20-30 minutes to get into one because another healer didn't queue up? That will drive off players faster than dealing with an occasional premade for 10 minutes ever would. At least with the premade they would still get commendations. .

 

There has to be a middle ground, i don't think anyone could seriously oppose if the matchmaking would wait another 2 minutes to make a balanced match, and only starts the unbalanced one if it can't find a bettter match in those 2 minutes.

 

As for the matchmaking, the best i heard so far is by valor, cause if you got the valor but not the gear it's really your own fault, wth did you spend your comms on. Something like try to match teams within 50 valor levels, then expand by 50 every minute would not be perfect, but a clear improvement to the current situation.

 

I understand valor doesn't equal skill, but on average people with more valor will be better than people with low valor just because they practiced more, so if we could reduce the unfun imbalanced matches from like >50% now to around 30% that certainly would be a lot beter, no?

 

Case in point i did 5 dailies y'day, took me 14 matches, 1 of them was competitive, the other 13 we either stomped them or got stomped, and both are just not fun

[Monoth]

they should just dedicate one server to stupid people

 

it will be called "Stupid People" server

 

y'all can have a free transfer there

 

I bet you'll be the first one transferred over there, hell they'll probably name the server after you.

[criminalheretic]

I dont think he was meaning JUST losing is bad Sportsmanship. But when the "better" players are camping the spawn location. THAT is bad sportsmanship. And I am sorry. Not grouping up to queue does NOT make you a bad player. Whatever you may want to think. Why is it that all you pro premaders all seem to think that? Our point is, you should NOT be FORCED to premade to have fun. Win or Lose. I could not give a rats A** if I win or lose, as long as its a fun game. Getting Steam Rolled is NOT fun. Hence why myself and a lot of other people just stopped playing. As the trend seems to be following. So keep up you attitude. Keep thinking there is not anything wrong with the current system. And you will end up queuing for RWZs all the time, cause RWZ or Reg WZ will be the same queue time....

 

Actually I DON'T think that anyone that queues solo is a bad player. (Shhh don't tell anyone, but despite being in one of the top 3 PvP guilds on my server, I actually solo queue MORE than 50% of the time. AND, definitely don't tell anyone this, but I lose about half of those matches, some of them against premades)

 

The generalization that I am making is NOT 'that solo queuers are bad at PvP'. It's that solo queuers that whine incessantly about being rolled by premades, say they can never find a group, or get accepted into a PvP guild, and argue for Bioware to implement a system that ensures they never have to face anyone that is better than they are, are bad at PvP.

 

But one point I agree with, spawn camping is bad sportsmanship. Whether it's the NFL or Alderaan Civil War, 'running up the score' is kind of a d-bag move. I don't do it. At least not on purpose. (If I just scored in Huttball, I am gonna hang around the EZ and fight anyone that is there, just because those are people who should ignore me and start heading mid, I can't help it if sometimes I win)

 

But with regard to the longer queue times when all the solo players quit? If that is what happens, that is what happens. But as long as my choices are:

 

A. Maybe have long queue times because solo players quit.

B. Definitely have long queue times because I am not allowed to play against the solo players.

C. Solo queue, put up 500k when the next highest guy does 170. Read 373 posts about how "Good Solo Players" should not be allowed in the "Casual" PvP queue.

 

A. Is feeling like the lesser of evils.

[madcappah]

I see dumb people.

[Dierdrea]

Harbinger has non stop pvp queues around the hour for everyone, but lately the server is getting overcrowded...

[Monoth]

I agree. Remove normal warzone all together. If you can't get 8 people together in an ops group to queue for PvP then you might be an asocial freak that needs to see a shrink regularly. This is a multiplayer game, not some 1 to 4 casual co-op cowadoody care bear game.

 

Here's the thing, originally Warzones were designed for casual pvp'ers, it was a means to get in some quick pvp or break up the monotony of pve'ing... Hardcore PvP'ers stuck to World PvP... Somewehre down the line the Hardcore crowd gave up World PvP and decided it was more fun to dominate Warzones..

 

Also my suggestion of a PUG only option are for the PvE and PvE RP servers, they can leave PvP servers as is, If you roll on a PvP server then you should know what your getting into, my main issue is with PvP ONLY Guilds rolling on PvE / RP servers because they can't dominate on a PvP server and want the advantage againt casual pvp'ers. Adding a PUG only option would allow casual pvp'ers to have some fun again.

 

The ONLY people against my idea are premade teams that scared they won't have easy wins... And won't be able to easily farm warzone commendations.

[Monoth]

A. Maybe have long queue times because solo players quit.

B. Definitely have long queue times because I am not allowed to play against the solo players.

C. Solo queue, put up 500k when the next highest guy does 170. Read 373 posts about how "Good Solo Players" should not be allowed in the "Casual" PvP queue.

 

A. Is feeling like the lesser of evils.

 

That's just stupid, your saying let the game burn in flames then let casual pvp'ers have their PUG only option.. that alone tells me your just another one of those players that enjoys having the advantage in premades and don't want it to change because you need it to keep your ego inflated.

 

If Premades weren't such cowards and would play against other premades it wouldn't be a issue, the issue is Premades that DON'T want to go against other premades... that's why they avoid ranked warzones like the plague. I keep seeing PvP'ers talk about being social, then hell it shouldn't be that hard to put 8 people together to do a ranked warzone now should it.

 

Bioware will eventually make changes as their numbers will show that nobody is buying pvp passes because it's a waste of money due to premades... That means EA is losing money.... So I have no doubt it will eventually change, money talks...

Edited December 28, 2012 by Monoth

[Technohic]

If you really think the casual PUGers are so worried about premades to where they need their own queue; the best way to get Bioware or anyone else to agree/change anything is to stop queuing. I am thinking Bioware does not care, however; on how many people queue for PvP, so you might have to take it a step further, and stop paying. Of course; I am not sure how well that will work out, because I am pretty sure Bioware will be stuck on the idea that they will get your money through the Cartel Shop either way.

[YaanaOhtar]

First of all, I never claimed to be "pro". But I choose to play competitively, which means I am trying to win every match I'm in. I don't choose to ignore features of the game that are put there to help you win. I suggest you play the way that makes the game most enjoyable for you, but if winning is enjoyable than I suggest you re-evaluate the way you are playing.

 

Wow it really competitive to kill a recruit gear, i guess it must be so since you're like a bunch of hungry coyote

 

Yes, when I group it's with whatever friends I have online. FYI, I typically PUG these days since most of my evening is spent in raids lately. The difference is that I do not go into the match expecting to have a team equal to what I would have if I made a premade. Don't get me wrong, I perform the best I can and work to win in any way we can, but if we lose I don't blame the other side because they were better as you seem to do. I don't quit games where my team doesn't have a lot of gear. If I wanted to win every match I played, then you're darn right I'd leave the recruits on the sidelines to fend for themselves and quit matches with a lot of them on my side. (this is where matchmaking comes into play)

 

I just recently had a toon hit 50 and played in mostly recruit gear. I had commendations to spend when I hit 50 since I planned ahead, but no legacy gear passing for this one. I had no problems competing in a WH/recruit mix. It takes maybe 20 hours to get full WH now if you lose every match, so gear is not even a relevant issue at this point.

 

Do you have problem understanding, you are a freaking old pvper, the new player join in the game will not doing pvp every days to level up, they wont have knowledge of saving com either.

 

 

a) I don't run premades often anymore

b) You have no idea how "skilled" I am (if anything in this game can really be considered skill)

c) I answer questions for new folks, run with PVE players in recruit/BM, and play with any class that wants to go in regular warzones

d) I never said this system is working perfectly, just that premades are not the culprit (insert matchmaking)

 

Apparently you have great skill in stomping a recruit gear. And you still can't answer 1 single question. "WOULD YOU TAKE IN A RECRUIT GEAR in premade ?"

 

Just realize that if you choose not to take advantage of features built into the game, your chances of losing will increase. If you feel this feature should be removed than make an argument for why, but ensure that argument will actually fully resolve your issue. Right now you are saying that premades make matches unfair for new players, when in reality those players are doomed from the start when having to face better competition. If they had a solo queue, would new players not get destroyed by better players anyway? Removing premades only takes the advantage away from the individual (can no longer ensure you aren't on the bad team), it doesn't remove the problem of one team being better than another or make matches any closer.

 

No one cares who they play as long as the game is equal, whether they face a complete PUG or 8 people from the same guild. As there are good and bad premades and good and bad PUGs, mixing them is fine we just need a better system for doing so.

 

I will ask again, are you have any problem understanding ? The freaking premade making sure that they are all WH against the PUGs which include new player. Without the premade, the newplayers have a better chance facing s.o at their level. That's called fairness. The chance for new player to fight against their own.

 

just that premades are not the culprit (insert matchmaking)

 

Just realize that if you choose not to take advantage of features built into the game, your chances of losing will increase.

 

Anyone find these 2 point contradict ? Cause i sure do. And listen to you, take advance of the features built into game to stomp on new players. Lolz... I guess i can imagine the majority of all premade player like.

[P-Chan]

There has to be a middle ground, i don't think anyone could seriously oppose if the matchmaking would wait another 2 minutes to make a balanced match, and only starts the unbalanced one if it can't find a bettter match in those 2 minutes.

 

As for the matchmaking, the best i heard so far is by valor, cause if you got the valor but not the gear it's really your own fault, wth did you spend your comms on. Something like try to match teams within 50 valor levels, then expand by 50 every minute would not be perfect, but a clear improvement to the current situation.

 

I understand valor doesn't equal skill, but on average people with more valor will be better than people with low valor just because they practiced more, so if we could reduce the unfun imbalanced matches from like >50% now to around 30% that certainly would be a lot beter, no?

 

Case in point i did 5 dailies y'day, took me 14 matches, 1 of them was competitive, the other 13 we either stomped them or got stomped, and both are just not fun

 

Problem is, I have had a lvl 50 from about 2 week out from launch. I quickly got lvl 65 Valor back before 1.2. I dont have WH or EWH now... How is that my fault? (I had to take a break from the game for Financial reasons...)

[madcappah]

BS BS recruit gear BS BS

 

We were all once poorly geared. Get better gear. You must grind for it like the rest of us did, except it's easier for you to do it now. You should be glad it won't take you many months to grind up to BiS War Hero like it took me.

 

 

And I do take recruit geared peoples into WZs with me. It helps them get their better gear faster.

 

 

QQ

Edited December 28, 2012 by madcappah

[ElyonRand]

As someone who did her very first warzone today, having avoided it since launch due to bad experiences in other MMOs PvP arenas, I do feel there are some issues with going up against premades for a first-timer. Fighting against premades is very difficult when you are still learning how PvP works, and can be very off-putting, especially when you get to the stage when you feel like a single player is personally hunting you across the battlefield (like a certain female Jedi Shadow I have encountered). HOWEVER, premade teams are very admirable to watch and are something to aspire towards, and should not be banned, as they are the epitome of player co-operation.

 

Therefore, it might be a good idea to separate premade teams from solo players, and allow solo players to option whether to fight premade teams or not, as there is an expectation of increased difficulty. Having spoken to other players about this, it appears that many solo players are low-levelled and are trying warzones for the first time, before they have had the opportunity to join a guild. I think there needs to be an environment where new players can learn the ropes without being put off by steamrollers.

[Jadescythe]

Wow it really competitive to kill a recruit gear, i guess it must be so since you're like a bunch of hungry coyote

 

 

 

Do you have problem understanding, you are a freaking old pvper, the new player join in the game will not doing pvp every days to level up, they wont have knowledge of saving com either.

 

 

 

 

Apparently you have great skill in stomping a recruit gear. And you still can't answer 1 single question. "WOULD YOU TAKE IN A RECRUIT GEAR in premade ?"

 

 

 

I will ask again, are you have any problem understanding ? The freaking premade making sure that they are all WH against the PUGs which include new player. Without the premade, the newplayers have a better chance facing s.o at their level. That's called fairness. The chance for new player to fight against their own.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone find these 2 point contradict ? Cause i sure do. And listen to you, take advance of the features built into game to stomp on new players. Lolz... I guess i can imagine the majority of all premade player like.

 

*sigh*

 

Clearly you aren't listening. But to answer your question, yes, I play with recruit players all the time. I answered that in my post you didn't read.

 

As to those last 2 quotes, yes they can coexist. Making sure you have good players on your team increases your chances of winning. If the other team has good players they can still win however. Simply putting premades together would keep this imbalance as bad premades would face good ones and bad PUGs would face good ones. That is why my point is that premades aren't the problem, matchmaking is.

 

Glad you found a way to keep yourself laughing throughout your post though.

[UGLYMRJ]

Why won't this thread die?!?!?!?!

[SDTAXantos]

I think a big issue is that people are too cheap to augment their gear. Even MK-5 Augment Kits and level 47 augments on your recruit gear is better than nothing at all. Make friends and stop being cheap scrubs. If you aren't having fun in WZs, then the problem is your own ineptitude to meet people, learn to get better, and enhance your gear to at least help in a small way. Christ.

[Monoth]

This is what the argument basicaly boils down to:

 

1) Pug players just want an option to play aginst other Pug players and not premades. Thats all.

 

2) Premade players don't want #1 to happen because they like having Pug players to face roll, it inflates their ego.

 

 

The argument that people should PvP 24 hrs a day on a PvE / RP server so they can compete with the PvP only guild premades is ludacris.

[madcappah]

This is what the argument basicaly boils down to:

 

1) Pug players just want an option to play aginst other Pug players and not premades. Thats all.

 

2) Premade players don't want #1 to happen because they like having Pug players to face roll, it inflates their ego.

 

 

The argument that people should PvP 24 hrs a day on a PvE / RP server so they can compete with the PvP only guild premades is ludacris.

 

What you've just said is one of the most insane things I have ever read. At no point in your irrational response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. May God have mercy on your soul.

Edited December 28, 2012 by madcappah