Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Pvtcarnage]

They said they are working on a better match making and until it comes out crying won't help.....So group up or deal with how it is solo. Simple as that.

 

Separate queues are NOT gonna happen because there is no x-server queues, and even if they did add that separate queues would not be needed with a good match making system.

 

They made a lot of adjustments to appease most of the same people crying here and it's still not good enough.

[cycao]

The premades will cry and scream desperately to avoid it. Personally I think if Failware will be this stupid about it, they should just let premades queue as an op (so 8 of them) and let them just bully PUGs. It happens anyway, but let's put that in as a "feature" so the premades can enjoy themselves more. Then maybe the moron PUGs will finally stop queuing completely. If solo queuers stopped queuing completely Failware would then act, even if for a week or something.

 

I still don't get why people keep solo queuing and putting up with it.

 

Separate the queues, then I no longer have to worry about terabads on my team. I solo, I group, I play ranked as often as I can.

[V-Serp]

Separate the queues, then I no longer have to worry about terabads on my team. I solo, I group, I play ranked as often as I can.

 

The other bonus is with separate queues, ranked/grouped is going to pop more. People aren't just going to stop grouping, without being able to roll PUGs they'll just face other groups. The groups that are bad now will just get better because it's an even playing field. People only get better when they are forced to, and the gap isn't too big.

 

If you actually like playing against other groups (as I'm a proponent of) you WANT the queues to be separated so you actually have a competitive scene that improves. Of course if all you want to do is roll PUGs and get easy wins you'll be kicking and screaming. And we all know what this community consists of.

[Ybini]

So group up or deal with how it is solo. Simple as that.

^

Until something else changes, this is all that can be done. If you truly solo queue expect to lose against premades, unless you get lucky enough to get some decent skilled/geared players to random in with you.

[cycao]

The other bonus is with separate queues, ranked/grouped is going to pop more. People aren't just going to stop grouping, without being able to roll PUGs they'll just face other groups. The groups that are bad now will just get better because it's an even playing field. People only get better when they are forced to, and the gap isn't too big.

 

If you actually like playing against other groups (as I'm a proponent of) you WANT the queues to be separated so you actually have a competitive scene that improves. Of course if all you want to do is roll PUGs and get easy wins you'll be kicking and screaming. And we all know what this community consists of.

 

Ranked will not pop more if they separate queues. It will still be the same 4-6 teams queuing and that's probably not going to change.

[spacemonkey]

The only reason anyone wants to play in a pre-made outside ranked is they want a easy ride, running pre-mades is about stacking the odds so heavily in your teams favor to such a degree that the skill factor is negated.

 

Stacking the odds you're making it impossible for the PUG's to compete, who wants to run a race, when the winner has already been determined?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how truly awful these players are when you run against them in PUG's. Outside of their pre-mades, individually these players really suck, they can't 1v1 to save their lives.

[Sydexlic]

The only reason anyone wants to play in a pre-made outside ranked is they want a easy ride, running pre-mades is about stacking the odds so heavily in your teams favor to such a degree that the skill factor is negated.

 

Stacking the odds you're making it impossible for the PUG's to compete, who wants to run a race, when the winner has already been determined?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how truly awful these players are when you run against them in PUG's. Outside of their pre-mades, individually these players really suck, they can't 1v1 to save their lives.

 

What's to stop you from organising other players, hell, even make some friends and do the same thing? If these people who do play together with their friends are so terrible like you say, then your group of friends will stomp on their group of friends, right?

 

Want to know what I think is holding you back here? It's because you don't have any friends, you're actually terrible at the game and lack any initiative to fix either problem.

 

The problem is not that they are ruining your fun, it's that you're not good enough, not organised enough, to ruin theirs.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Sydexlic

[cycao]

The only reason anyone wants to play in a pre-made outside ranked is they want a easy ride, running pre-mades is about stacking the odds so heavily in your teams favor to such a degree that the skill factor is negated.

 

Stacking the odds you're making it impossible for the PUG's to compete, who wants to run a race, when the winner has already been determined?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how truly awful these players are when you run against them in PUG's. Outside of their pre-mades, individually these players really suck, they can't 1v1 to save their lives.

 

It simply amazes me how bad pugs are. Really, I mean I end up defending about 90% of my games (dps) simply because I can no longer trust a pug player to call incs and defend properly. I respec and run tank for huttball and get hate when I do not pass the ball when there is literally no one to pass to that is a head of me. The things I see in pugs is just crazy...why would I want to willfully experience this day in and day out.

 

When we group we don't stack for the best optimized groups we save that for ranked. We take anyone (including out PvEers) who want to participate. And yes we do lose, its not a "auto, pug stomping marry ole time". We can get stuck with people who have no clue outside of the fact they no how to keyboard turn and like to get into a royal rumble that is no where near the objective.

 

Nothing screams pug more then that winning mentality that you are going to lose and stand no chance of winning when facing a premade. Honestly, when facing a good team I don't lay down and take a beating but it sounds like that is what pugs expect.

Edited January 16, 2013 by cycao

[UncelSam]

The only reason anyone wants to play in a pre-made outside ranked is they want a easy ride, running pre-mades is about stacking the odds so heavily in your teams favor to such a degree that the skill factor is negated.

 

Stacking the odds you're making it impossible for the PUG's to compete, who wants to run a race, when the winner has already been determined?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how truly awful these players are when you run against them in PUG's. Outside of their pre-mades, individually these players really suck, they can't 1v1 to save their lives.

 

/agree!

 

This sums up about all in the average premade player.

 

When will we hear what Bioware will do about this?

[Carter_Mathis]

The only reason anyone wants to play in a pre-made outside ranked is they want a easy ride, running pre-mades is about stacking the odds so heavily in your teams favor to such a degree that the skill factor is negated.

 

Stacking the odds you're making it impossible for the PUG's to compete, who wants to run a race, when the winner has already been determined?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how truly awful these players are when you run against them in PUG's. Outside of their pre-mades, individually these players really suck, they can't 1v1 to save their lives.

 

Yup, I group up for the sole reason of stomping Pugs in reg wzs, not because I like to play with my friends....

[UncelSam]

Yup, I group up for the sole reason of stomping Pugs in reg wzs, not because I like to play with my friends....

 

So go up against other premades with your friends?

 

Your so full of it

[Daskillz]

The only reason anyone wants to play in a pre-made outside ranked is they want a easy ride, running pre-mades is about stacking the odds so heavily in your teams favor to such a degree that the skill factor is negated.

 

Stacking the odds you're making it impossible for the PUG's to compete, who wants to run a race, when the winner has already been determined?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how truly awful these players are when you run against them in PUG's. Outside of their pre-mades, individually these players really suck, they can't 1v1 to save their lives.

 

lol I group queue with my guild mates so I don't play with people who're dumb. Simple as that, solo queuing as a healer and healing people who find ways to fail at the cheesiest specs in the game is not fun. I get focused hard in any game I am in because everybody knows I am a healer so I require people who can play their class and prioritize objectives over getting kills. And of course know how to call out when they need help. All the simple things in this game that many people just don't do.

 

So if people like me are ruining your fun it is probably because we got stuck in a war zone with you and lost to stupidity.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Daskillz

[V-Serp]

Ranked will not pop more if they separate queues. It will still be the same 4-6 teams queuing and that's probably not going to change.

 

It either will pop up more or less people will be grouping at all. I mean they have to go somewhere right? All these people are saying they would do ranked but it just doesn't pop or they don't have the perfect composition, well, if there is nowhere else to go then ranked WILL pop and teams WON'T have perfect composition because that's the only place they can go.

 

Unless of course people would rather quit playing this game than go up against other groups or play in the solo queue. Either way we'd find out pretty quick.

 

If they did just quit, I'd imagine the groups quitting are more than offset by the new solo players the game gets from having a solo queue. It has been stated before the majority of players queue solo, and it is pretty obvious from these boards the majority of solo queuers hate facing premades when solo queuing, so ostensibly many don't queue anymore or would queue more if it was a true solo queue.

 

These are all very simple logical follow throughs.

[Pvtcarnage]

]The only reason anyone wants to play in a pre-made outside ranked is they want a easy ride[/b], running pre-mades is about stacking the odds so heavily in your teams favor to such a degree that the skill factor is negated.

 

Stacking the odds you're making it impossible for the PUG's to compete, who wants to run a race, when the winner has already been determined?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how truly awful these players are when you run against them in PUG's. Outside of their pre-mades, individually these players really suck, they can't 1v1 to save their lives.

 

You obliviously have no friends in game and therefore don't understand that playing with friends is fun.Never mind the fact this is a MMO and the game was ment to be played this way. Like it or leave it. But stop with the poor attempt to troll.

[V-Serp]

lol I group queue with my guild mates so I don't play with people who're dumb. Simple as that, solo queuing as a healer and healing people who find ways to fail at the cheesiest specs in the game is not fun. I get focused hard in any game I am in because everybody knows I am a healer so I require people who can play their class and prioritize objectives over getting kills. And of course know how to call out when they need help. All the simple things in this game that many people just don't do.

 

So if people like me are ruining your fun it is probably because we got stuck in a war zone with you and lost to stupidity.

 

So why can't you do that against other groups? You realize that solo queue is balanced out when it's all solo because both sides have the same things to deal with? When you premade against solos you are putting the opposing team at a disadvantage, because they have to deal with all PUGers with possible bad gear and almost definitely poor team composition, but you do not.

 

Premade should NEVER have been with the solo queue. I posted this exact thread in beta to the devs. I heard the same dumb arguments against it. Several other beta players and myself literally farmed the premades in beta when this issue came up to try and show people how bad of an idea it was. The devs blatantly ignored it for their own stated dumb reasons of not wanting a full premade vs a full PUG (yet their match making precisely would do this, we actually took apart a full 8 premade with just 4 over and over and over until they'd finally stop queuing).

 

The gear was another issue, and why 10-49 should always have been separate from 50. It wasn't in beta or launch. It is now because the devs took so much heat after release that EA forced them to make that change. I don't know how this isn't making them change either, it seems to be a hot button issue.

[Danapa]

The worst thing about premades in non-ranked warzones is that a guy who plays a pyro powertech a class that even my vegetal grandma could own with feels like he is god because he is permaguarded perma healed and can do 1 million damage without dying once and then you encounter that guy alone in some other warzone and he does sad numbers and sucks a lot

[cycao]

It either will pop up more or less people will be grouping at all. I mean they have to go somewhere right? All these people are saying they would do ranked but it just doesn't pop or they don't have the perfect composition, well, if there is nowhere else to go then ranked WILL pop and teams WON'T have perfect composition because that's the only place they can go.

 

Unless of course people would rather quit playing this game than go up against other groups or play in the solo queue. Either way we'd find out pretty quick.

 

If they did just quit, I'd imagine the groups quitting are more than offset by the new solo players the game gets from having a solo queue. It has been stated before the majority of players queue solo, and it is pretty obvious from these boards the majority of solo queuers hate facing premades when solo queuing, so ostensibly many don't queue anymore or would queue more if it was a true solo queue.

 

These are all very simple logical follow throughs.

 

Not every guild is ready for ranked, and not everyone who groups is guilded. Ranked is something that takes effort to at least put something together for some guilds. Needed for starters you need 8 players which is not that big of an issue having a proper team is. We got lucky last night and won a match with 3 tank sins, normally that would not happen but we had 3 different guilds just trying to get a team together.

 

The sad thing is you are probably right in the fact that some teams do want easy competition which is why you rarely see new ranked teams springing up. You have teams that have been playing ranked for months now and they have their strats, members, and compositions down. New teams don't have this they put a team together, get absolutely stomped and never queue again. Heck prior to the change in 1.6 you would at least see pugs trying to get going for ranked but now that WH is so easy that never happens.

 

I have said it enough that I would be all for a separate queue for groups but I just don't see how that could work without cross server or taking into account the different groups sizes. I can honestly think that if right now there was a separate queue for groups and we were running a recruit for our team we would have slower pops than my origin server a month before the first transfers.

[Daskillz]

So why can't you do that against other groups? You realize that solo queue is balanced out when it's all solo because both sides have the same things to deal with? When you premade against solos you are putting the opposing team at a disadvantage, because they have to deal with all PUGers with possible bad gear and almost definitely poor team composition, but you do not.

 

Premade should NEVER have been with the solo queue. I posted this exact thread in beta to the devs. I heard the same dumb arguments against it. Several other beta players and myself literally farmed the premades in beta when this issue came up to try and show people how bad of an idea it was. The devs blatantly ignored it for their own stated dumb reasons of not wanting a full premade vs a full PUG (yet their match making precisely would do this, we actually took apart a full 8 premade with just 4 over and over and over until they'd finally stop queuing).

 

The gear was another issue, and why 10-49 should always have been separate from 50. It wasn't in beta or launch. It is now because the devs took so much heat after release that EA forced them to make that change. I don't know how this isn't making them change either, it seems to be a hot button issue.

 

Nothing wrong with pre-mades themselves, the problem is the players who immediately give up when they see they're against a pre-made. If people want to pvp with others they know then they should not be told they can't. And your pre-made vs pre-made idea would be perfectly fine but only if there was cross-server pvp. if they stopped people who solo queue from being put in groups against a pre-made then the queues for people who group together would be VERY long.

 

Cross server queues would overall lower the chances that you get put up against a pre made in regular warzones. Of course Bioware claims they don't have the technology to do that. So guess we're SoL

[spacemonkey]

What's to stop you from organising other players, hell, even make some friends and do the same thing? If these people who do play together with their friends are so terrible like you say, then your group of friends will stomp on their group of friends, right?

 

Want to know what I think is holding you back here? It's because you don't have any friends, you're actually terrible at the game and lack any initiative to fix either problem.

 

The problem is not that they are ruining your fun, it's that you're not good enough, not organised enough, to ruin theirs.

 

Do you often jump to conclusions and pull made up facts and infomation out of your backside about a person you don't know or even played against? I tell you this for free, you could not be more wrong if you tried.

 

Anyways, I do rather well thank you very much, I neither care if I win or lose ( why would that bother me?), I just want the game to be competitive, challenging and fun for everyone. My fun does not hinder on stomping or ruining other peoples fun.

 

Notice, I used the word Challenging and competitive. If I was terrible at PvP, would I want challenge and competitiveness?

 

I do not want to join pre-mades outside rank, and I've been invited to join many times, so I've played in pre-mades with friends against PUG's, I find pre-mades dull, predicatable and unltimately unchallenging outside of ranked warzones. I find it more fun to be randomly grouped against friends you see, killing your friends and Guildies is more fun than grouping with them because they know your tactics and tricks. A sentiment many of my Guildies share too, we love going against each other.

 

You see, I only play in ranked pre-mades. You know for the Challenge.

 

Which is why I laugh when people who pre-made outside rank pretend they do it for the challenge.

 

I like the randomness of PUG's. Sometimes you have to carry the team, other times people know what their doing, sometimes we even get match against an equally balanced team and have to fight hard for the win or lose by a small margin, becuase thats challenging.

 

You could even say playing PUG's opens you to meeting and befriending even more people than just roflstomping with your guild.

 

So why would I ever want to play in a pre-made outside ranked warzones?

 

Unless I wanted the opposite of challenge, competivness and just wanted a easy run.

Edited January 16, 2013 by spacemonkey

[UncelSam]

Theres noting wrong with running WZs with your friends/guildies etc. Just dont go facing PUGs when you are premade team, run against other Premades.

[V-Serp]

I like the randomness of PUG's. Sometimes you have to carry the team, other times people know what their doing, sometimes we even get match against an equally balanced team and have to fight hard for the win or lose by a small margin, becuase thats challenging.

 

You could even say playing PUG's opens you to meeting and befriending even more people than just roflstomping with your guild.

 

So why would I ever want to play in a pre-made outside ranked warzones?

 

Unless I wanted the opposite of challenge, competivness and just wanted a easy run.

 

Well said. Those hard fought PUG vs PUG matches really are the best, especially in a game like huttball. It's like playing a pickup football game vs. an organized one. And also I agree on going after teammates, that's the fun part.

 

In HS I played QB for our football team. I had to have organized games and practices of course. But I also played a lot of pickup games, every day there was likely to be one and it was fun getting a short game in during lunch period or another off period. Well one time one of my WRs came by and we were on the same team. We ran a couple of plays, got easy scores, and everyone else then insisted we weren't allowed on the same team. And that was fine with us, we went right at each other on opposite sides the rest of the game and everyone else had more fun that way. It would have been pointless to continue pretty much owning for free, we might as well have just been at practice without a defense. It's just a different game.

 

Really I still don't understand how any premade can really have fun going against PUGs or even having PUGs on their team. Premades are all about organization and executing a set gameplan. PUGs are all about not having a real gameplan and knowing tendencies to begin with, but rather figuring things out on the fly. The premades don't have to do that so they have a huge advantage already and it's a different game. The PUGs do and have to work without even having tools in place that they won't be able to overcome against competent premades.

 

I'm guessing the premade vs PUG win rate is about 90-10. Pug vs pug it's going to be 50-50.

[Pvtcarnage]

Theres noting wrong with running WZs with your friends/guildies etc. Just dont go facing PUGs when you are premade team, run against other Premades.

 

That's not up to the premade it's up to BW's match making.

 

And FYI to most posters here "premades" is used improperly for most "groups" are just random friends and not balanced perfectly which what a premade technically is ment to mean.

 

So people need to think before they push the responsibility on to others because they choose not to do something that the others are. Yell at BIOWARE not people using the game they way it was designed to be played.

[sanchito]

....

 

This is a very good post Serp. Only thing i disagree with is your last sentence. I believe this is true for the serious pvp guilds, but more than 50% of "premades" are, in my opinion, nothing else than 4 man pugs with 4 friends in them, no voice comms no elaborate tactics no anything. Most people probably don't even realize they are playing with / against a premade in those situations. This is why i believe we need matchmaking, not segregated queues.

[cycao]

Really I still don't understand how any premade can really have fun going against PUGs or even having PUGs on their team. Premades are all about organization and executing a set gameplan. PUGs are all about not having a real gameplan and knowing tendencies to begin with, but rather figuring things out on the fly. The premades don't have to do that so they have a huge advantage already and it's a different game. The PUGs do and have to work without even having tools in place that they won't be able to overcome against competent premades.

 

I'm guessing the premade vs PUG win rate is about 90-10. Pug vs pug it's going to be 50-50.

 

We still have fun. If you get a team that wont quit the match the instant they lose 2 points in nc/cw or a door right away in vs or a quick score in huttball then maybe things would be more interesting. I also like your reasoning behind pugs not having a game plan, that sums up pugs pretty well.

[spacemonkey]

This is a very good post Serp. Only thing i disagree with is your last sentence. I believe this is true for the serious pvp guilds, but more than 50% of "premades" are, in my opinion, nothing else than 4 man pugs with 4 friends in them, no voice comms no elaborate tactics no anything. Most people probably don't even realize they are playing with / against a premade in those situations. This is why i believe we need matchmaking, not segregated queues.

 

I agree with you assessment, most of the pre-mades really are just a few mates playing together. When most of us are talking about "Pre-mades" we're all talking about those 2-4 well known PvP Guilds on our servers, PvP guilds that do nothing but run pre-mades out of rank, all on voice, all min/maxed, never without their healers. Farming PUG's for comms, valor and stabillizers. It's a tiny little group of people who are quite literally destroying PvP in the long run for short term gains, by putting lowbies and newly minted 50's off of PvP for good.

 

For a start Bioware needs to take away the single biggest advantage these "pre-mades" have, which is voice/mumble. That means Bioware must integrate voice chat into their game, so PUG's can at least talk to each other.