Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Veniras]

Any logical theories for this ...

 

I ASSUME it's to prevent long queue times. And that once F2P comes they will seperate the queues. *crosses fingers*

Edited October 17, 2012 by Veniras

[Ssfbistimg]

Here are some personal statistics over the past 3 days from solo pvp'ing on the Republic side of the Progenitor server. I used Recruit gear only at the start to see the incentive a new player will have. To see if he will keep playing pvp:

 

Played 38 matches over the course of 3 days:

 

Won: 4. Lost: 34.

Number of times queued against a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 23

Number of times queued with a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 2

Number of times lost against the Republic: 0

Number of times lost against the Empire: 34

Number of times won against the Republic: 4

Number of times won against the Empire: 0

Number of times grouped without a healer: 17

Number of times faced an enemy group without a healer: 1

Number of times faced an exceptional enemy group (4 or more players with War Hero title or above): 10

Number of times queued with an exceptional group (4 or more players with War Hero or above): 1

Number of times queued with an inadequate group (4 or more players in Recruit): 10

Number of deaths: stopped counting.

 

As you can see from this limited survery, queuing solo meant losing the overwhelming majority of the games (a ratio of 4-34), almost all of them against the Empire. I've been in 4 true PuGvsPuG matches and incidentally every single one of them was Rep vs Rep we won.

 

23 times ouf of 38 (all in Rep vs Imp) we faced three or more players from the same guild. On my team this happened twice but we lost those matches as well due to the fact that:

 

10 times out of 38 we had 4 or more people (!!!) in Recruit gear (myself included of course), whereas 10 out of 38 times we faced enemy groups where 4 or more people were sporting War Hero, Conqueror, Warlord etc. titles.

 

This was further compounded by the fact that 17 (!) out of 38 times our team did not have a healer. Only once was I in a match where I could not find an enemy healer to mark.

 

I did not exactly count how many times our group was utterly annihilated (0-6 huttball, 100-0% novare etc.) but there were a lot of instances where we could not hold a single node in Civil War. Coordination was ok, we always discussed tactics, 9 out of 10 times people called out inc but the general lack of healers AND the overall gear advantage enjoyed by the enemies AND the fact that 23 matches had 3 or 4 people from the same guild made sure that no amount of coordination would make a difference.

 

Look at the numbers and tell me why a new lvl50 would bother to play pvp again after this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Facing premades more than half the time (23/38) was part of the reason we kept losing but not the only part. The drastic lack of healers wasn't helping either. And the fact that in almost every 3rd match or so we had 4 people in Recruit.

 

I haven't tried pvp as an Imperial yet. I'm curious to do some statistics when I hit 50 to see if it's easier to level up somewhat as an Imperial.

 

I've seen many opinions by many people (some say it's fine, the majority call for changes) but I think there is something very wrong with pvp if solo queuing means autoloss.

 

I played 40 matches as a pug last 3 days i played. won 32 lost 8.

so what was your point. I pugged all 40 matches. went up against premades atleast in 20 matches. I dont pay attention for this as I don't care who I play. only care about winning.

[Theodulus]

So what I take from this is I am a terrible player and a coward because we can never get our pvpers online at a time to run what little ranked queues that are going on (they do happen you just need to coordinated with other teams to see they are running). When ranks do happen you face the same team over and over again and that gets old fast. Also ranked warzones can be as bad in terms of imbalance as non ranked, what do you think happens when someone is starting a pug group and saying "anyone can join gear and class does not mattar", well what usually happens is the pug faces a stomping but hey at least its ranked.

 

You make it sound like the players who are not running ranked (most want to not all of them can) enjoy stomping the crap out of players in recruit gear, which I don't. I love a good close matchup, the warzones that come down to the wire 1-2 or 5-6 huttballs, 10%-0% NC, 20 point wins in CW, VS where no one gets the doors or it becomes a race to see who got what down faster.

 

I cannot deny that there are players who enjoy beating on recruit gear players but don't label all WH geared players in one group...that's being narrow minded and makes you look like an idiot.

 

This threads title is all about premades but for some reason a lot of it comes back to a gear thing. Is there a gap in gear...yes, but unless you have never PvPed you should not be hitting 50 and go "oh I have never done a warzone before but I really want give it a shot ill buy some recruit gear and have some fun". With an exception to you not having any player interaction at all over the course of your leveling you should have some concept of gear and what that means at any endgame type activities whether that be PvE or PvP.

 

You should be ready with comms so you can get some WH and BM right away fill the gap with recruit, maybe do some operations or HM flashpoints to boos your HP and stats.

 

This is an MMO, Its almost like they want you to meet people and enjoy the game with you. There is a solo aspect to this game but how can you blame someone for wanted to group up with a guild or friends to take part in PvP. I know I am just blowing smoke but these type of posts make my head scratch. There is nothing stopping anyone from joining a guild or grouping with friends.

 

They should just give everyone a set of WH when they hit 50 and be done with it...when this happens I will be waiting on pins and needles as to what will be the next big complaint.

So first you admit you can't get enough PvP friends for ranked warzones and then you defend your rolling pugs by the statement it's a MMO and you should get friends to PvP with in unranked. It seems to me you are just making excuses to why your 4-man premade is rolling pugs in unranked warzones.

[Theodulus]

Facing premades more than half the time (23/38) was part of the reason we kept losing but not the only part. The drastic lack of healers wasn't helping either. And the fact that in almost every 3rd match or so we had 4 people in Recruit.

 

I haven't tried pvp as an Imperial yet. I'm curious to do some statistics when I hit 50 to see if it's easier to level up somewhat as an Imperial.

 

I've seen many opinions by many people (some say it's fine, the majority call for changes) but I think there is something very wrong with pvp if solo queuing means autoloss.

This is something I noticed while doing level 50 warzones a few months back on my gunslinger. I rarely had any premades on my team while almost always facing at least one 4-man premade. There seems to be something wrong with the matching algorithm since it prefers matching pugs against premades. But I guess we can remove warzones once the game goes F2P. The premades will make sure no F2P player testing PvP ever is going to get a subscription or buy PvP passes. Bioware will merge all remaining PvP servers into PvE servers within a year since warzone pops will be twice a week, the same rate my previous server had before the transfer.

[cycao]

So first you admit you can't get enough PvP friends for ranked warzones and then you defend your rolling pugs by the statement it's a MMO and you should get friends to PvP with in unranked. It seems to me you are just making excuses to why your 4-man premade is rolling pugs in unranked warzones.

 

Well when we do get enough for ranked its later at night and that does not work to well for me but thats my own fault I guess that and no one wants a dps assassin in their group but again my own fault unless I join a pug group but I covered that in my post unless you did not really read it.

 

I also stated I do not enjoy rolling pugs and even when we do it does not happen all that often...maybe once every 4 games if that (usually good competition on my server). Its amazing how when stated I get no joy out of crushing players in recruit gear that you state I defend my "rolling pugs" which I never once said. I also never said anything about running a 4 man premade group, again pulling things out of the air, if I do group its usually just me and our guilds PvP leader and he is trying to gear an alt.

 

These forums never seas to amaze me.

[RAVM]

There should be reduced commendations for premades when they get matched against PUGs.

[Theodulus]

Well when we do get enough for ranked its later at night and that does not work to well for me but thats my own fault I guess that and no one wants a dps assassin in their group but again my own fault unless I join a pug group but I covered that in my post unless you did not really read it.

 

I also stated I do not enjoy rolling pugs and even when we do it does not happen all that often...maybe once every 4 games if that (usually good competition on my server). Its amazing how when stated I get no joy out of crushing players in recruit gear that you state I defend my "rolling pugs" which I never once said. I also never said anything about running a 4 man premade group, again pulling things out of the air, if I do group its usually just me and our guilds PvP leader and he is trying to gear an alt.

 

These forums never seas to amaze me.

I'm just tired of the so called war heroes defending their right to make people stop queuing for normal warzones by premading so I assumed you were one of them. Mostly because of the not enough people online to do RWZ and queue times are too long for RWZ arguments. Well it seems I made hasty conclusions and for that I apologize.

[cycao]

I'm just tired of the so called war heroes defending their right to make people stop queuing for normal warzones by premading so I assumed you were one of them. Mostly because of the not enough people online to do RWZ and queue times are too long for RWZ arguments. Well it seems I made hasty conclusions and for that I apologize.

 

Don't worry I am talking to the PvP leader as we speak about getting serious about ranked again.

[Theodulus]

There should be reduced commendations for premades when they get matched against PUGs.

Or just add a damage dealt, healing received and damage resisted debuff to people premading against pugs. Or combine the two suggestions. That should allow for some interesting warzones and it would be an incentive to do RWZ instead. Ranked comms doesn't seem to be a good enough incentive for doing RWZ so a debuff would certainly be motivation enough to do RWZ.

[Lunacriss]

This is definitely a L2P issue

[JasonChmiel]

Id rather face a premade on Civil War than a pug group, why?

 

Because those ive met dont quit at (i.e 150-320) its so lame having to go to the enemys medal farm to get some action for a good 5minutes.

 

Some pugs are a bunch of horribads and should not be allowed to get on the internet, I even like leavers more than these kinds

 

Amen. I have geared three toons from recruit MK-1 to itemized war hero and never once fallen below 3rd in both objectives and either healing or damage. People in recruit who think they can face tank a geared player need to re-examine their strategy anyways. Your avg. gear level should influence how you play and what builds you run. I laugh at 14k warriors/knights rolling smash who complain about being squishy. That build is reliant on damage avoidance for survivability and gear for high crits. Play the objective and work as a team to eliminate the opposition. Geared players can overextend in pugs to kill and get away with it. That is definitely not the case with those still climbing the ladder.

 

Figure this out and maybe your outlook in the pvp experience will change.

[cycao]

Amen. I have geared three toons from recruit MK-1 to itemized war hero and never once fallen below 3rd in both objectives and either healing or damage. People in recruit who think they can face tank a geared player need to re-examine their strategy anyways. Your avg. gear level should influence how you play and what builds you run. I laugh at 14k warriors/knights rolling smash who complain about being squishy. That build is reliant on damage avoidance for survivability and gear for high crits. Play the objective and work as a team to eliminate the opposition. Geared players can overextend in pugs to kill and get away with it. That is definitely not the case with those still climbing the ladder.

 

Figure this out and maybe your outlook in the pvp experience will change.

 

Very true.

[SlimsPicken]

There should be reduced commendations for premades when they get matched against PUGs.

 

More to the point, there should be a boost for the poor souls who get matched against them.

[vimm]

It must be because I destroy these pre mades. Is there any way we can give them more advantages so that I can have a challenge?

 

Play with one hand!

[CommanderKeeva]

I played 40 matches as a pug last 3 days i played. won 32 lost 8.

so what was your point. I pugged all 40 matches. went up against premades atleast in 20 matches. I dont pay attention for this as I don't care who I play. only care about winning.

 

Were you wearing Recruit gear too? Did you have healers on your team? Was your group made up of Recruit geared people half the time? I wanted to check things out from the perspective of the person who just dinged 50 and see what his chances of success were.

 

I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. Every server has its own issues, after all. I merely listed the statistics of one person on one faction on one server. I'll do one over this weekend as well. Compare the results, too.

[MonkeyCannon]

Were you wearing Recruit gear too? Did you have healers on your team? Was your group made up of Recruit geared people half the time? I wanted to check things out from the perspective of the person who just dinged 50 and see what his chances of success were.

 

I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. Every server has its own issues, after all. I merely listed the statistics of one person on one faction on one server. I'll do one over this weekend as well. Compare the results, too.

 

What does this have to do with recruit gear??? We are talking solely about pugs vs premades. Take your gear QQ to the 10 threads already made about gear gaps.

 

Back on topic, the way people on my server are handling this is by making more groups. There are elitists who only allows full or almost full WH geared, but there are those who are willing to accept any 50 as long as they play as a team. Voice software is not necessary bc if you're part of a group, you tend to stay close to them. If you stay close to them you begin to depend on them. They wont be able to coordinate themselves well enough to rush/pass the ball to the goal in huttball but they fare better in many other situations.

[Veniras]

One main issue is also that it discourages curious newbies that only start after having dinged 50.

 

Their first experience might be joining a PUG, and then getting their *** handed to them by a geared premade. These guys are not going to return to PVP.

[Rylarr]

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

This is completely ridiculous. It's like saying a good football team should be putting in their second strings because they're dominating the division. If you cannot handle people who play competitively and to actually WIN then why are you doing ranked in the first place? Oh by the way your idea already exists it's called a regular warzone.

[Veniras]

This is completely ridiculous. It's like saying a good football team should be putting in their second strings because they're dominating the division. If you cannot handle people who play competitively and to actually WIN then why are you doing ranked in the first place? Oh by the way your idea already exists it's called a regular warzone.

 

He IS talking about REGULAR Warzones. Not ranked.

[Rylarr]

He IS talking about REGULAR Warzones. Not ranked.

 

There's the ole' ADD for ya my mistake !

[Monoth]

This is completely ridiculous. It's like saying a good football team should be putting in their second strings because they're dominating the division. If you cannot handle people who play competitively and to actually WIN then why are you doing ranked in the first place? Oh by the way your idea already exists it's called a regular warzone.

 

I'm talking about REGULAR WARZONES not RANKED WARZONES....

 

The whole point of my post was that Ranked PreMade fully geared teams are playing in the REGULAR warzones instead of Ranked Warzones so they can steam roll everyone, my suggestion was to add a PUG only option for warzones not allowing premades to join it (And NO I'm not talking about ranked warzones).... And NO it doesnt exist, you can still create a premade and join the regular warzones and stem roll everyone...

 

The problem is you have competitive PVP ONLY Guilds (usally on PvE or RP servers) who think it's fun to steam roll everyone in the REGULAR Warzones, given the majority of people pug warzones this is becomeing an issue, less and less people are even participating in warzones because of these Premades.. Why do you think people complain that it takes so long to get a warzone pop...

 

I'm not asking Bioware to change the whole PvP setup, just to put in a option that only allows PUG's to join and not Premades, you still have your Ranked Warzones for Premade teams....

Edited October 17, 2012 by Monoth

[Chlomamf]

1.Stop farming recruits

 

2. Go back to Rated

 

3.You will find competition there.

 

4.Profit???

 

The main reason Premades do Normal Warzones is so they can own everyone unfairly and feel like pros,

 

Cuz in rateds they'd actually have to WORK to feel like pros.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Chlomamf

[abhaxus]

The notion that people will never come back to PVP after being facerolled when they ding 50 is ridiculous. If you quit after getting facerolled, you didn't really want to PVP anyway. SWTOR is the first MMO I've played, I always get facerolled when I try a new alt, and I always keep coming back for more. My sorc is a fantastic healer, in full itemized WH gear that I grinded for before I ever joined a guild and played premades.

 

If you could L2P, you wouldn't whine about premades. You should be whining about the terribad pugs you are teamed with, except then you'd have to admit right now you're one of them.

[Invictusthetaru]

Play with one hand!

 

Hahaha! Love this.

 

Actually went up against a 49 smash marauder twinked out (17k HP, 4k smashes, quit before game ended, saw this because I focused him every time) on my 48 12k HP Tactics vanguard yesterday and that was a really fun challenge. Only lost when hold the line wasn't up.

 

I imagine I'll be facing the same soon as I'm about to hit 50 on my vanguard, but I've never had any trouble gearing up my 4 other toons.

[DanteDeLaRocha]

Can we add the mention of "L2P" to mentioning Hitler and/or the Nazis in terms of automatically losing any argument?