PloGreen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) The post does not state that "everyone" will have a 50% win ratio. It states that an average player will. It clearly states that a bad player will have a lower win ratio, (and conversely, a good player a higher win ratio). So I am not sure of the rational for your question. That's not what I asked. What I meant was - how does everyone queing randomly = average player getting a 50 50 ratio? Edited December 17, 2013 by PloGreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzingFridge Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 An average solo queue player wins far less than 50% of their matches Where did you pull this statistic from? I pretty much always win as a solo-queuer, and I queue solo ~70% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Where did you pull this statistic from? I pretty much always win as a solo-queuer, and I queue solo ~70% of the time. This is why I am curious about these numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzingFridge Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Oh, I worked it out myself. I'm an "above-average" PvPer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) That's not what I asked. What I meant was - how does everyone queing randomly = average player getting a 50 50 ratio? I am not pulling the statistic from anywhere. I don't have access to empirical data nor did I claim to. It's simple probability. It means that based on random selection of all available players that one 8 man team will have a higher percentage of "good players" than the other and that an "average player" will have an equal chance to be part of that team (win) or the other team (loss). If someone is solo queuing randomly and winning at 70%+ there are other selection factors at work such as one faction has a higher percentage of good players and or premades during that time frame than the other, etc. Or maybe they just are that good, I doubt it but I have no way of knowing. Edited December 17, 2013 by MotorCityMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzingFridge Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I have no way of knowing. You're right. You have no way of knowing. So stop making bullsh*t claims with zero evidence to support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) You're right. You have no way of knowing. So stop making bullsh*t claims with zero evidence to support them. I can know and understand simple math, and also recognize random internet hostility when I see it. What you mad about bro? Simple probability over your head? You one of those kids never quite got a handle on fractions? Drunk posting? Edited December 17, 2013 by MotorCityMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzataky Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I can know and understand simple math, and also recognize random internet hostility when I see it. What you mad about bro? Simple probability over your head? You one of those kids never quite got a handle on fractions? Drunk posting? There is also a probability that I may win all the games in one day because I would get only bad imps against me and only cool people on my team. Trying to use math on PvP is completely false in my opinion. Its only about people understanding PvP vs. people only wanting to do dailies or only wanting to win. And yes, some faction can have more experienced people, more hardcore PvPers etc. etc. But who cries over it doesn't understand that world is not fair, world is tough, get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 world is tough, get used to it. Ya, vid games, pvp, tough like world. Be man. You must lift bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzataky Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Ya, vid games, pvp, tough like world. Be man. You must lift bro. Well obviously for some it is. They are trying to use math and probability on it. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roechacca Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 well i just stepped into a logic vacuum . good luck with this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordorian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Well obviously for some it is. They are trying to use math and probability on it. LOL. In priniciple you could stochastically model all this stuff, like with distrubition functions over the skill of the player pool, modell the matching in, adjust factor for the so called fraction imbalance, add factors measuring class inbalance and relative frequency to the population add correlations for premades on voip and do all this, to get some model probabilities for match outcomes.... but what is the point? You could use the whole tool of advanced statistics and machine learning to get the most information of out the available data possible, but still won't change make any objective difference. In this game PVP is either already dead or in the process of dying. The population is dwindling and i think hardly any change will get them back. Some would jump in say it is the premades fault. I just tell you, I play on a server where Nostrum Dolus rolled premades. Do you even know what that means, it means being slaughtered in spawn!!! And i mean in literally in spawn. You would be lucky just get one or two medals if you get self heal off. It didnt stop me pvping. And others did neither. You just do pick up the next queue again in the hope to not land in the same wz as them. It's just plain reality that there are just people that are better at the game than you (considering that they could pull of similar things in a ranked environment it is fair to say nostrum was actually better then 99.99% of the people playing this game, to use some illegit figure as well ). Live with it and get better yourself. I have seen plenty of wzs where pure pugs where facerolling (known) premades as well. If i spot like 2-4 competent players in a wz, you know you can achieve something, and it is true joy to see people knowing what they are doing. But quite often you see people in tank stance not guarding anyone, tanks not taunting, people breaking cc, defending away from the nodes, not paying attention to the number off incomings (voidstar, or alderaan), not peeling for your healer, no seperating enemy tanks and healers, chain stunning people to full resolve and then wondering why the carnage marauder just globals them, going for sensless double or three caps (and that most of the time way to early), not actually grouping up to attack a node and millions of other things. These annoy me even more "pugstomping" premades. Yet this still isn't reason in my mind pvper are leaving the game. There removal of 8v8 ranked was huge blow, even though not so many people actually participated in that. Generally i would say it just the lack of care pvp gets in general, class balance surely one thing here (i have played concealment operative for quite a while basically until those ridiculous dev responses), the lack of variety and content (yes we have arenas now, but pure death matches aren't really long term fun, one ore two are alright, but i couldnt do that like of some hours), the lack of working matchmaking in competitive pvp - when it still would have made a difference -, the lack x-server queue (surely didnt help), the lack of preparing people for competitve pvp (the last 3 points belong together), the lack of care in implementing things (bolster, relics, roll bug, leap bug, ghost gcd, shroud, being killed through sorc bubble), the lack of rewards (i mean i enjoy pvp and i do it even without getting fancy title or huge sums of credits, but considering how long it takes just to afford augments by just doing pvp is ridiculous compared to what money you get from those ridiculously easy flashpoints or boring pve weeklies. not having a weekly for ranked arenas also hardly give an incentive to solo queue for them other than farming ranked comms), the non existance of pvp events (i mean we i see pvp as some sport, it would be nice if you could have like teams in arenas competiting in tournaments and stuff). All this hardly gives a pvper and incentive to play the game much longer (i am actually enjoying pve more than pvp, which i didn't deem possible in a long while). Ok rant mode off and a bit more on topic. Premades can ruin non-ranked warzones, most of them don't, incompetent players can ruin non-ranked (and ranked) warzones, some of them don't. The outcome of a warzone should depend on skill and coordination is a core skill in an mmo pvp and pve -> those that are skilled should win more often then those without. skill is distributed unevenly, and the old rule is the group is only as strong as the weakest member: one bad player that node guards can cost even the otherwise best organized premade a match (i have seen that even quite often). Sometimes the game is even fair in actually punishing bad play, sometimes it isn't. Life is not fair, neither is this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Exactly. If everyone was queuing solo randomly, an average player should win 50%. Even a bad player should be able to win almost 40%. But this isn't really what happens. An average solo queue player wins far less than 50% of their matches, while premades win far more. You can chalk it up to "good players", skill, voice comm, pre-selection of classes, or an act of the Gods, that's besides the point. What matters it that it makes for lopsided matches, one sided pvp, lots of frustrated players, and eventually people move on. This seems pretty false. I will give you that at the start of the game either team has a 50/50 chance of winning then all the variables start to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Exactly. If everyone was queuing solo randomly, an average player should win 50%. Even a bad player should be able to win almost 40%. But this isn't really what happens. I dunno man. I solo more than I premade, and 60% of the time it works every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I dunno man. I solo more than I premade, and 60% of the time it works every time. I love lamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I love lamp Are you just looking at things in the room and saying your love them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Are you just looking at things in the room and saying your love them? Did you throw a trident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Did you throw a trident? haha. Just watched that movie this past weekend wanting to go see the 2nd. Last couple posts, might be the best posts of this thread. Edited December 17, 2013 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) haha. Just watched that movie this past weekend wanting to go see the 2nd. Last couple posts, might be the best posts of this thread. I don't know remember like a few months back we derailed it into a classic cartoon appreciation thread then they had to delete like 5 pages of awesomeness. Edited December 17, 2013 by cycao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I don't know remember like a few months back we derailed it into a classic cartoon appreciation thread then they had to delete like 5 pages of awesomeness. Don't remind me how long this thread has gone. I think we talked about fajitas in this one at some point, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Don't remind me how long this thread has gone. I think we talked about fajitas in this one at some point, also. Lol that was back before Ugly got banned...Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Lol that was back before Ugly got banned...Good times. Oh the good old days. There are some nice posts about "War Heros" in the first couple pages and a lot of suggestions to tier players by valor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I have many leather bound books and my house smells of rich mahogany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It's science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Your a smelly pirate ****** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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