Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[UncelSam]

L2Socialize?

 

I dont know how much more u can socialize than I do. Im member in a few diffrent Guilds and i pvp and pve alot. I just dont like to be hooked and tied-down in a specific team all time since I mix pvp/pve alot.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I dont know how much more u can socialize than I do. Im member in a few diffrent Guilds and i pvp and pve alot. I just dont like to be hooked and tied-down in a specific team all time since I mix pvp/pve alot.

 

So you have no one to blame but yourself for your failure. Thanks.

[UncelSam]

So you have no one to blame but yourself for your failure. Thanks.

 

I have no failiure in my pvp thx, dont know where u got that from.

 

Maybe you need to go rethink your Life?

[SajPl]

I have no failiure in my pvp thx, dont know where u got that from.

 

Maybe you need to go rethink your Life?

 

If you weren't a pvp-failure, you wouldn't be moaning here.

[VIZIOO]

Funny thing is that base on most comments I had read on this thread premade players do not deny their involvement against random players. Which remains me what happened to World of Warcraft. They change because of the mass exodus in membership due to deficiencies, specially in pvp. Finally after 10yrs they had got their act together. Get it together SWTOR.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I have no failiure in my pvp thx, dont know where u got that from.

 

Maybe you need to go rethink your Life?

 

If you weren't complaining about premades ruining your pvp experience I might believe you. But until then LSP and L2Socialize.

[Neoforcer]

Funny thing is that base on most comments I had read on this thread premade players do not deny their involvement against random players. Which remains me what happened to World of Warcraft. They change because of the mass exodus in membership due to deficiencies, specially in pvp. Finally after 10yrs they had got their act together. Get it together SWTOR.

 

What happened is a addon made it so you would all end up in a premade with automated ques every time which became a big problem. We have no such tools just people grouping which to pugs is blasphemy. Get it together this is MMO Not Halo on xbox.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Neoforcer

[VIZIOO]

What happened is a addon made it so you would all end up in a premade with automated ques every time which became a big problem. We have no such tools just people grouping which to pugs is blasphemy. Get it together this is MMO Not Halo on xbox.

 

Yea! you wanna those loos_rs that need to guild with others and use technology i.e. mumble, vent, etc in order to defeat random new pvp players. But hey, even while you group with all your premade friends..you ppl are no match for a little of common sense.. I had defeated plenty of premade loos_rs like you with no pvp gear. Afterwards all you premades do is mourn in mumble or vent how I lick your A's.

[Jadescythe]

Yea! you wanna those loos_rs that need to guild with others and use technology i.e. mumble, vent, etc in order to defeat random new pvp players. But hey, even while you group with all your premade friends..you ppl are no match for a little of common sense.. I had defeated plenty of premade loos_rs like you with no pvp gear. Afterwards all you premades do is mourn in mumble or vent how I lick your A's.

 

Loser only has 1 o. Unless you think that premade players are looser than PUGs, in which case I agree. PUGs should loosen up.

[cycao]

Yea! you wanna those loos_rs that need to guild with others and use technology i.e. mumble, vent, etc in order to defeat random new pvp players. But hey, even while you group with all your premade friends..you ppl are no match for a little of common sense.. I had defeated plenty of premade loos_rs like you with no pvp gear. Afterwards all you premades do is mourn in mumble or vent how I lick your A's.

 

Technology is ruining the gaming industry. Heck, you can now play games with a mouse and keyboard...What a time to be alive.

[VIZIOO]

Technology is ruining the gaming industry. Heck, you can now play games with a mouse and keyboard...What a time to be alive.

 

That's besides the point. Is not about technology, but categories. Why put a full gear and experience pvp player agains a pug whose trying pvp for the first time. And if I was in a premade group I wouldn't even bother to against a newbie. This game is very modern. It should had the ability to identify premate group and place then in same category as such. But hey, technology as made it possible for you to group with friends and win at pvp...without it you'll be at the basement.

[VIZIOO]

Loser only has 1 o. Unless you think that premade players are looser than PUGs, in which case I agree. PUGs should loosen up.

 

But they're more typos..why you didn't correct those..specially "lick A's" ..oh, is it correctly spell? lol

[AlrikFassbauer]

That's besides the point. Is not about technology, but categories. Why put a full gear and experience pvp player agains a pug whose trying pvp for the first time. And if I was in a premade group I wouldn't even bother to against a newbie. This game is very modern. It should had the ability to identify premate group and place then in same category as such. But hey, technology as made it possible for you to group with friends and win at pvp...without it you'll be at the basement.

 

It's easy to find out who is an experienced player :

 

By playing time.

 

If you equal "experience" with "played time" , then it should be clear that anyone who has been doimng a thing for a very long time should be more experienced than someone who has been doing the same thing for a shorter time. This is true for carpenters, cooks, programmers, cart racers, Boule players etc. ...

 

So, if there was a kind of timer telling how much one has been playing PvP overall, people with a shorter time span should be put against people with a shorter time span, not against people with a longer time span of PvP playing.

[Neoforcer]

Yea! you wanna those loos_rs that need to guild with others and use technology i.e. mumble, vent, etc in order to defeat random new pvp players. But hey, even while you group with all your premade friends..you ppl are no match for a little of common sense.. I had defeated plenty of premade loos_rs like you with no pvp gear. Afterwards all you premades do is mourn in mumble or vent how I lick your A's.

 

Nope i solo que and beat premades all the time i am the one that take the node by himself laugh at premades then realizes it not an issue with premade in pvp it an issue with how people play which no patch can put brains in players. You would get smoked by me as i hit you for 13k in your full pvp or pvp gear. How do i know this i hit fully gear tanks for 13k what do you think will happen to you the force be with you? You have no clue how i pvp assumption is the mother of all screw ups boy. What it sound like to me is you are bitter.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Neoforcer

[Alexhpy]

I quit this game 1 year ago... came back now to find that they still did not fix this. Lame.

[Marcus__]

Epic thread. Clearly an issue for the pvp community. Shocks me there has yet to be a dev comment at all. Even if it was to lock it LOL

[magi_melcior]

It's easy to find out who is an experienced player :

 

By playing time.

 

If you equal "experience" with "played time" , then it should be clear that anyone who has been doimng a thing for a very long time should be more experienced than someone who has been doing the same thing for a shorter time. This is true for carpenters, cooks, programmers, cart racers, Boule players etc. ...

 

So, if there was a kind of timer telling how much one has been playing PvP overall, people with a shorter time span should be put against people with a shorter time span, not against people with a longer time span of PvP playing.

 

Actually that is called Valor, the more you play the more Valor you have so therefore the more experience you are. Sad thing is a high Valor rating doesn't actually indicate a good player. I have seen many players sport their Elite War Hero titles who play worse than some lvl 10 n00bs in their very first WZ.

 

All Valor rating shows is that the player in question has played a lot, it does not however show if they are any good, they might have spent the last 2 years playing as bads.

 

Epic thread. Clearly an issue for the pvp community. Shocks me there has yet to be a dev comment at all. Even if it was to lock it LOL

 

I think they don't comment because there is no good way to solve this issue and the second they say they are looking at it players will expect some miracle patch the following week, maybe that is not the right attitude for the Devs but it is the one they seem to be taking.

 

As to why there is no quick fix, well it's simple (yet most of the premade haters overlook this simple fact) not all groups are premades

 

You get 2 kinds of groups in PvP, the premades with their balanced teams, top rate gear and VOIP, and then you get what I'd refer to as the casual groups. Happens all the time in our guild, a small number of us are doing PvP solo and someone asks "Hey want to group for PvP", well heck sure why not after all this is a social game based around group activities. Sadly this 2nd type of group is often mistaken for a premade when they often offer no real advantage to the team they are on.

 

This then is the issue, how do you separate the premades from the casual groups? If you simply put all groups in a separate queue then all you are doing is punishing and discouraging the non-premade groups who just wanted to be social by forcing them to only play against premade PuG stompers. Punishing people for being social in an MMO is kind of stupid really

 

Unless you can find a way to separate premades groups from non-premade groups then forcing groups to only do ranked would be a very bad thing for this game and I really doubt Bioware will do it.

 

Right now the best way to get the premades out of regular WZs is to give them a good reason to do Ranked. I mean at the moment what do they get for running ranked, they can't do 8v8, ranked matches do not count towards any sort of Daily or Weekly and they can get ranked comms almost as quickly from regular WZs. So bring back 8v8 to ranked, give ranked a Daily and Weekly, make getting ranked comms outside of ranked WZs harder and maybe throw in a new reputation system (a bit like valor) but for ranked only with cool titles and unique gear (weapons, armor, mounts, color crystals ect).

[Jadescythe]

But they're more typos..why you didn't correct those..specially "lick A's" ..oh, is it correctly spell? lol

 

Based on your comments, you remind me of someone near and dear to the hearts of everyone on POT5 who loves to be.... globalled.

 

But seriously, your post was ridiculous and you should feel ridiculous.

[t-darko]

After all this time there might be a slight confusion on what is what, and how different people enjoy their MMO in a true MMO spirit.

 

Pug--> bunch of randoms get together in true mmo spirit to do a WZ together against, hopefully, another bunch of randoms, who wanna do the same in true mmo spirit. If those others by 'chance' is a Premade(--->people who in true mmo spirit get together), and if they enter unranked, has a greater 'chance' to meet a bunch of randoms.

 

Now since a premade gets together(in true mmo spirit) pre entering the queue, while PUGs get together(in true mmo spirit) upon entering that same Queue, one could argue, by sheer deduction, that the group getting together, pre entering the queue, might have a slight advantage.

 

Now since 8 vs 8 WZs only exist in unranked atm, one can only conclude that this problem is forced on the community. As it is now when you pug an whole evening, you will come to recognize atleast 4 to 6 players that will on and off play together with you, there by creating some kind of functional strategy and communication. And there by having a greater chance of winning by each time, and if they do, probably will be deemed as a 'premade' by the newly arrived opponent.

 

Now then who owns the problem? Well, the only way to play a WZ is to enter unranked, there are no alternative if you don't want to trade punches in a Arena. As it is now the Devs own the problem, who have given us no alternative . . .

 

We all should start to address the problem toward those who made an old and true issue into a consistent fact, and an repelling factor of this game.

Edited January 5, 2014 by t-darko

[MotorCityMan]

This then is the issue, how do you separate the premades from the casual groups? If you simply put all groups in a separate queue then all you are doing is punishing and discouraging the non-premade groups who just wanted to be social by forcing them to only play against premade PuG stompers. Punishing people for being social in an MMO is kind of stupid really

 

Good point. Separating groups from pugs is not a perfect solution. All groups are not created equal. Additional matchmaking would be beneficial. But the game already recognizes the difference between "group" and "solo". And that could be the first step.

I suspect that the number of people that solo queue far out number those that could be put into your "casual group" category. So while casual groups might suffer somewhat, the vast majority of players would benefit.

8 v 8 ranked was tried as a solution and they sat empty and unused. And premades players used the excuse that "Oh it's so haaaaaaaard to get 8 people together" to not play ranked so the ranked queues sat empty. The new excuse is "Oh we don't like the venue" to not play 4 v 4. It seems even premades don't want to face premades when they could be easy mode pug farming.

[Zunayson]

After all this time there might be a slight confusion on what is what, and how different people enjoy their MMO in a true MMO spirit.

 

Pug--> bunch of randoms get together in true mmo spirit to do a WZ together against, hopefully, another bunch of randoms, who wanna do the same in true mmo spirit. If those others by 'chance' is a Premade(--->people who in true mmo spirit get together), and if they enter unranked, has a greater 'chance' to meet a bunch of randoms.

 

Now since a premade gets together(in true mmo spirit) pre entering the queue, while PUGs get together(in true mmo spirit) upon entering that same Queue, one could argue, by sheer deduction, that the group getting together, pre entering the queue, might have a slight advantage.

 

Now since 8 vs 8 WZs only exist in unranked atm, one can only conclude that this problem is forced on the community. As it is now when you pug an whole evening, you will come to recognize atleast 4 to 6 players that will on and off play together with you, there by creating some kind of functional strategy and communication. And there by having a greater chance of winning by each time, and if they do, probably will be deemed as a 'premade' by the newly arrived opponent.

 

Now then who owns the problem? Well, the only way to play a WZ is to enter unranked, there are no alternative if you don't want to trade punches in a Arena. As it is now the Devs own the problem, who have given us no alternative . . .

 

We all should start to address the problem toward those who made an old and true issue into a consistent fact, and an repelling factor of this game.

 

So what I got from your (well written) post is that premades have an advantage because they've been playing together. That is usually true, but it is an undeniable fact that sheer skill without voice communication or prior premade strategies can always equal and better most premades. 90% of the communication when I premade comes from what we see in game. For example, if there is a healer, we both know to focus him. No need to communicate any further - this game is not difficult on such a low level. The healer is PUGing and is not communicating with VoIP - neither do we.

 

The problem is that bads tend to PUG, and good players tend to premade. Good players beat bad players, another undeniable fact.

 

What it seems like to be is that bad players are mad that they are bad.

 

Imagine a situation in which better football players tended to take steroids more to (slightly) bolster their performance - bad players will complain that since steroided players are good, there is an imbalance.

 

While there *is* an imbalance, 90% of it is not in the steroid, but just in the skill.

[DarthRaika]

The problem is that bads tend to PUG, and good players tend to premade. Good players beat bad players, another undeniable fact.

 

What it seems like to be is that bad players are mad that they are bad.

 

.

 

I agree that good players tend to premade in games with decent matchmaking. However, in games like SWTOR where it doesn't exist then premading with a good team gets boring very fast. Most of the good players I knew early on complained about this and many of them left. I felt the same way and stopped premading over a year ago.

 

An example related to the one you gave I can give from real life experience in college. I used to play basketball with my friends and we weren't great (only 1 of us played in college and he went to a smaller college not the one the rest of us went to). However, we were all starters in HS. We would often play together if there were good players in the gym but when there weren't a lot of people and we knew the people we were playing sucked we would split up and make the teams more even.

 

That is what decently well off people who don't have emotional issues want. We want even matches and challenge.

 

And yes, in those examples we had more skill but that is because we chose each other and put our team together outside of that gym. The other puggers in that gym didn't have that option. It is the option to choose that makes the difference. That is why matchmaking is so needed.

 

Another example, is imagine 1 college team picked their team from all graduating HS players and another team was assigned graduating HS players randomly. Do you think this would be anywhere near even?

 

Sports like you refer to all use heavy matchmaking. They all premade and all pick their premades as best as they can and then play eachother. In this situation the "goods" do tend to premade over playing in a gym with randoms. However, this premading is based on decent matchmaking. If there wasn't decent matchmaking then no one would watch sports.

 

Also, when I did pug in college it was in a gym with several full courts. The different courts had different skill levels and it was rather obvious which was which. Most people stuck to their respective skill level courts and therefore there were more even matches. The people on the best court never teamed up and purposely played on the worst of the courts. That would not have been any fun.

[t-darko]

So what I got from your (well written) post is that premades have an advantage because they've been playing together. That is usually true, but it is an undeniable fact that sheer skill without voice communication or prior premade strategies can always equal and better most premades. 90% of the communication when I premade comes from what we see in game. For example, if there is a healer, we both know to focus him. No need to communicate any further - this game is not difficult on such a low level. The healer is PUGing and is not communicating with VoIP - neither do we.

 

The problem is that bads tend to PUG, and good players tend to premade. Good players beat bad players, another undeniable fact.

 

What it seems like to be is that bad players are mad that they are bad.

 

Imagine a situation in which better football players tended to take steroids more to (slightly) bolster their performance - bad players will complain that since steroided players are good, there is an imbalance.

 

While there *is* an imbalance, 90% of it is not in the steroid, but just in the skill.

 

Well, I can by a 100% state, as an undeniable fact, that you completely shoot off the target and missed the point by a very wide margin. Why? Well, first off I can use your post as hard evidence!

 

I'm suggesting the following;

1) A group getting together before entering the queue might have an advantage

2) Pugs that often end up in the same WZs might be perceived as a premade as they probably develop some interaction skills over time. This would probably seem even more so if they have more experience then the opponent.

 

You, old chap, assume that 'good' PvPers premade a lot. Undeniable facts can only be backed up with hard evidence. In other words are you just voicing an opinion.

 

What I further more suggest and try to argue is that in the current state of the PvP, do not allow beginners to develop their skills without facing far too competent opposition. If you can't see or realize the problem in that I could assume that you don't really care that much about the PvP in this game.

 

And to voice my own opinion I would claim that IF there were a demand for competitive PvP, then the 'good' PvPers on this game would start demanding exclusive Arenas and WZ so they wouldn't have to be bothered with Bads! Wonder why those post are so rare. ( aaah yes, I know, It was sooooo hard getting 8 people together to do ranked WZs AND since each and every class that gives anyone a proper beating is sooooo Over Powered it's no use queuing for Ranked Arenas, what a shocker !!!)

 

And on this issue;

What it seems like to be is that bad players are mad that they are bad.

If we're being nonconstructive and just trading opinions I would state the following;

What it seems like to be is when 'good' players are mad that they are bad then they blame game mechanics and class imbalance. Just another whine, a fancy one grant you that, but still a whine ...

 

And don't get be started on football, rugby with pads ain't football, there's a whole world out there playing football . .

 

And as for the real Issue; WZs offer no alternative in it's current state. Unranked is the only place to be if you like WZs, Pugs and Premades alike and that is the problem . . .

[Marrius]

1) I want to see ranked 8v8 return.

2) I want to see ranked able to complete dailies and weeklies. I would not likely queue for normal as I would be looking to get my 55s geared as quickly as possible.

 

IMHO, the result of this will be less pugstomping and that is a plus for the new 55's in pvp.

 

 

PS. I also want to be able to pick up my dailies via my HUD and not have to loiter at the terminal on fleet.

[MotorCityMan]

The problem is that bads tend to PUG, and good players tend to premade. Good players beat bad players, another undeniable fact.

While there *is* an imbalance, 90% of it is not in the steroid, but just in the skill.

 

This is certainly partially true, as one huge advantage premades have over pugs is pre-selection. People choose who they wish to team with, and bad and uncooperative players are not invited back and are filtered out. And there is also peer pressure to conform to the group so there is a much higher level of cooperation (teamwork) amongst premades. None of this is a bad thing. The argument is, premades know full well they have these advantages, but yet choose to compete against pugs who are on average less skilled and who do not coordinate well as a team instead of against other premades.

 

And why? The game allows it so it must be ok and the more skilled are entitled to farm pugs in reg wzs? The ranked queue is too long? And why is too long? Because the premades would rather be ROFL facerolling players they know going in that they can beat instead of queuing for ranked where they might face equal or better competition.

 

Since most players will follow the path of least resistance, it now is up to Bioware to take a stand like Blizzard has.http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/12/05/blizzard-takes-a-stand-against-pre-mades-battleground-groups/