Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[cashogy_reborn]

From the "PVP forum guidelines" sticky:

 

Never insult another community member.

Before making a new thread, search and see if there is already an existing thread.

 

You just insulted someone for using an existing thread instead of making a new one. Two birds, one stone. Congrats

 

So I take it you just reported me....

 

LOL

[Sharee]

So I take it you just reported me....

 

LOL

 

Nah. I just found it funny, coming from a class rep.

[physiology]

Nah. I just found it funny, coming from a class rep.

 

Because this is a commando related issue

[Zarthorn]

Damn this is an old thread, but yes Class Balance first and foremost before anything else, it's gotten to the point where WZ's are simply this:

 

Rep: Sentinel, Sentinel, Cons, Cons, Comm, Comm, Guardian & VG, SB Scoundrel & That diehard Shadow player.

Imp: Mara, Mara, Sorc, Sorc, Sniper, Sniper, Sniper, Jugger & PT & either a Op or another Mara or Sniper.

 

Shadows and Assassins are rare, Melee orientated Scoundrels and Operatives rarer still, and I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a Mercenary or Commando specced for anything else but healing.

 

Gunslingers don't seem to exist Republic side, Snipers exist in abudancy on the Imperial side (clear indication of mirror imbalance)

 

So yeah...premades are the absolute least of our worries when the Balancing issue is far from addressed.

[Carter_Mathis]

I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a Mercenary or Commando specced for anything else but healing.

 

lol

 

/5char

[Zarthorn]

lol

 

/5char

 

True that there healing is...lackluster, but it's certainly better for Wz'es than there pants damage tree, lets be honest here, they don't do anything well (tying everything to Tracer Missle and Grav round then gutting those two abilities instead of doing what was asked and spreading the damage around to stop them being one button ponies)

[madcappah]

Damn this is an old thread, but yes Class Balance first and foremost before anything else, it's gotten to the point where WZ's are simply this:

 

Rep: Sentinel, Sentinel, Cons, Cons, Comm, Comm, Guardian & VG, SB Scoundrel & That diehard Shadow player.

Imp: Mara, Mara, Sorc, Sorc, Sniper, Sniper, Sniper, Jugger & PT & either a Op or another Mara or Sniper.

 

Shadows and Assassins are rare, Melee orientated Scoundrels and Operatives rarer still, and I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a Mercenary or Commando specced for anything else but healing.

 

Gunslingers don't seem to exist Republic side, Snipers exist in abudancy on the Imperial side (clear indication of mirror imbalance)

 

So yeah...premades are the absolute least of our worries when the Balancing issue is far from addressed.

 

What server is this?

 

I see nearly all skill trees represented on Pot5 everyday. Shadows and Assassins are abundant, snipers and slingers are abundant.

[Zarthorn]

What server is this?

 

I see nearly all skill trees represented on Pot5 everyday. Shadows and Assassins are abundant, snipers and slingers are abundant.

 

Jedi Cov aka Snipers go with everything server.

[P-Chan]

Damn this is an old thread, but yes Class Balance first and foremost before anything else, it's gotten to the point where WZ's are simply this:

 

Rep: Sentinel, Sentinel, Cons, Cons, Comm, Comm, Guardian & VG, SB Scoundrel & That diehard Shadow player.

Imp: Mara, Mara, Sorc, Sorc, Sniper, Sniper, Sniper, Jugger & PT & either a Op or another Mara or Sniper.

 

Shadows and Assassins are rare, Melee orientated Scoundrels and Operatives rarer still, and I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a Mercenary or Commando specced for anything else but healing.

 

Gunslingers don't seem to exist Republic side, Snipers exist in abudancy on the Imperial side (clear indication of mirror imbalance)

 

So yeah...premades are the absolute least of our worries when the Balancing issue is far from addressed.

 

Slingers exist, and its not an imbalance between the mirror classes, but a style imbalance. Snipers are, honestly, WAY more *********** awesome then Slingers. I have both at 55. I also run a 55 DPS Comm, but I get frustrated as hell and move to another toon after I get my dailies done. IMO THAT is a class Imbalance between mirror classes. Mainly in the fact that Mercs can easily heal from the shadows, not impossible to track, but not cake either. Comms, unless they are blowing nothing but their big heals cant hide anywhere, *********** green been of death is easy as hell to track. On Bastion, we have NO Comm healers. Comms in general on Bastion are pretty rare. Shadows and Assassins are fairly common on Bastion as are Melee Ops/Scoundrels.

 

So I say we need 1) Class Balance issues fixed, and 2) like Ive stated hundreds of times, a decent Matchmaking system for 8v8 as well as the new 4v4 (Ive heard the 4v4 arenas DO have matchmaking, not sure how good they will be though.) and 3) Need people to stop being Pansies in a WZ and quitting 20 seconds into the match! (HUGE problem on Bastion) 4) BW needs to implement a mirror system for joining in WZs, if only 6 Pubs have joined the WZ, only 6 Imps should be allowed in until more Pubs accept. (Or Visa-Versa).

 

Unlike what people like to think, this game is not dead, nor dying (this is not a response to you), The PvP system is not perfect, but I HAVE seen worse. It just needs some fine tuning, a little TLC, and I think this system can be among the Great. But thats me.

[cashogy_reborn]

Nah. I just found it funny, coming from a class rep.

 

Im not a class rep cuz Im friendly

 

And that guy saying Commando/Merc DPS is still bad hasnt ever seen it in the hands of a good player

Edited September 3, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[GnarKillah]

Don't need class balance

Don't need to take away abilitie to que with friends

Do need to learn to play.

[Sharee]

[edit] Nevermind, not that important. Edited September 4, 2013 by Sharee

[foxmob]

Pug only warzones, good one. Ok so Bioware will never...NEVER remove the option to queue with friends/guildies in this game. That would be the final nail in the coffin. With the upcoming 4v4 grouped ranked and solo ranked premades will become less of a problem. Most of these 'pro' premades will be doing grouped ranked and if a solo player does not wish to do solo ranked (I don't know why they have been asking for such a queue for what seems like an eternity) then that is there own issue can still queue for regs and probably deal with less premades since they will most likely be doing ranked.

 

my understanding is that you can still queue for regs while your 4m is q'd for rated. is this not the case?

[Marrius]

I totally agree with the OP as I have stated in my suggestion post....

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=677362

 

it is also here though I think it may get moved... (though it addresses those L33T players that think they can push us around outside WZs)

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=677117

 

I believe it is easy to make everyone happy if we incorporate these ideas. Bioware needs to know if we are not happy so don't let up, tell them what you want. They are reasonable people lets give them some reasonable arguments.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Marrius

[cycao]

I totally agree with the OP as I have stated in my suggestion post....

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=677362

 

it is also here though I think it may get moved... (though it addresses those L33T players that think they can push us around outside WZs)

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=677117

 

I believe it is easy to make everyone happy if we incorporate these ideas. Bioware needs to know if we are not happy so don't let up, tell them what you want. They are reasonable people lets give them some reasonable arguments.

 

I am tired of joining a 3-4 man team on a WZ when the opponent has a full team. We get no commendations and our time is wasted. I am not sure if people are intentionally manipulating the cue- (In which case, those caught should have their accounts and any accounts affiliated to that account perma-banned) -or if it is just the poor planning by BioWare when developing WZ's

 

I am on Jung Ma and our WZ's are always dominated by The Regulators; an over geared under talented mob of misfits who tend to work very well together. In so doing they have single-handedly (though perhaps unintentionally) hurt our server's WZ by chasing many people away.

 

What I propose are a few things I believe may solve these problems (of which I am sure exist on other servers):

 

1) Make cross server WZ's This was done very successfully in WoW as it reduced cue waiting times. It could also serve to eliminate one or two guilds' monopoly over a single server.

Pretty sure if they even have plans for this it will be a long, long....long way off.

2) Close WZ sessions where less than 80% of the team are present do not award any commendations for a cancelled WZ. This would help with cheating where people cue up but do not log in. It also would help with teams who's members drop off giving the opposing team overwhelming numbers.

They already have a shutdown sequence and don't allow backfilling when certain warzones reach a certain point in time/score. Its also not cheating if a queue pops and you don't take it.

2a) As part of 2) If someone logs off or cues up and does not log in to a WZ they should be banned from the WZ for a minimum of 1 hour. Nobody likes a cheater or a poor sport. (I am sorry if your internet sucks but the rest of us should not be penalized because you can only afford dial-up. I play through a VPN in China and I only occasionally have problems.)

Again its not cheating if you don't take the queue as there are reasons for not taking it and sometimes you flat out miss them.

3) Allow match choice when cuing into WZ's. I personally hate Hutt Ball and I would like the option to cue into the WZ's that I like.

Keep them random. Everyone has warzones they hate and like.

4) Set up a choice between match WZ's and solo Wz's whereby solo WZs would not allow group cuing. Let guilds like the Regulators be challenged by other organised PVP guilds. It must get boring for them when they have no opposition. I am sure they would welcome the challenge. And it would help others to enjoy the WZ element of the game more.

Solo ranked arenas will get you away from premades and most premades (at least the ones I know will be running grouped ranked). Though since Bioware in there glorious choice of wisdom decided not to solo/grouped ranked arenas to count towards the daily/weekly so you will probably run into the occasional premade.

I believe if we implement these few simple ideas, we will see a better community which will result in a better game.

 

Please add other ideas if you so like.

 

PS. note I not only gave my idea but supported the argument. Please respect the spirit in which this thread was written and respond in kind. Trolls will not be fed!

 

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Marrius

 

They have stated that cross servers wont be coming any time soon if ever and even if they did it only made sense for 8v8 ranked which they are removing from the game.

 

+10 points for the over geared under talented reference as it made me laugh.

[Marrius]

They have stated that cross servers wont be coming any time soon if ever and even if they did it only made sense for 8v8 ranked which they are removing from the game.

 

The one constant we can all count on is change. What They may say now can likely change if enough people call for it.

 

+10 points for the over geared under talented reference as it made me laugh.

 

I don't mean this to slam the Pre-mades, it is just the truth. I have a valor rating of 47 and I can hold my own with many pre-made individuals. Its all about setting up your quick slots and abilities properly. My main concern with the newly implemented 4 on 4 is with something I have already seen. Yesterday we were in a pug vs a pre-made and we got 0 commendations (it was a horrible beating and a frustrating waste of time lol)

 

PS. The cheating I refer to may not be mentioned in the EULA but the idea of place holding a cue or WZ spot is unfair to the other players and should be considered cheating and thus bannable.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Marrius

[P-Chan]

They have stated that cross servers wont be coming any time soon if ever and even if they did it only made sense for 8v8 ranked which they are removing from the game.

 

+10 points for the over geared under talented reference as it made me laugh.

 

Not saying your wrong, but I havent found it, please link where they say they are taking OUT 8v8? Everything I have seen just says they are ADDING 4v4.

[Zunayson]

Not saying your wrong, but I havent found it, please link where they say they are taking OUT 8v8? Everything I have seen just says they are ADDING 4v4.

 

they're taking out 8v8 ranked. They're taking out the ability for a premade of 8 to fight a premade of 8, which is the only form of competitive pvp this game has.

 

What I say is pure fact, and you should take my word for it.

[P-Chan]

they're taking out 8v8 ranked. They're taking out the ability for a premade of 8 to fight a premade of 8, which is the only form of competitive pvp this game has.

 

What I say is pure fact, and you should take my word for it.

 

ok, 8v8 Ranked... I thought you meant period. I didnt pick up the ranked part for some stupid reason...

Edited September 5, 2013 by P-Chan

[LeonHawkeye]

To the top with you.

[Cunobelin]

The original post was correct. This is a GAME. This is not life. This doesn't have to be so unfair. It isn't whining about fairness to say that a GAME should not kill people's fun before they can have it. This game should not have SO MANY frustrating things endemic in its construction. Is anyone at Bioware NOT a game-playing uber geek? A regular person who can maybe understand that not every player wants to or cares to be the ULTIMATE ****** SWTOR player? I mean, really, I pity that kind of person, but it seems that's the only kind Bioware hires to code and create SWTOR...

 

How about a radical rethinking of the GAME with the goal of making it a FUN GAME instead of some stupid virtual D*ck measuring contest? For real - the competition among players will always be there, Bioware does not need to construct the game so a certain player (aka no life, sit in front of computer 8 hours a day and grind grind grind) gets all the glory and everyone else is canon fodder.

 

I am a good player, especially in PVP. I have been solo and in groups. There is a definite difference and I agree, there should be warzones for solo players only as well as those for groups only.

 

Lastly, why the arbitrary limit on 4-person PVP groups? Why can't we form a full PVP group? How about less constraints and less setting everything up for the uber-geek? After all, last I checked my money was just as good, and if Bioware wants to continue receiving it from me something should be done before I say, oh well, there's always the next game to try....

[cashogy_reborn]

No. Now go away

[P-Chan]

The original post was correct. This is a GAME. This is not life. This doesn't have to be so unfair. It isn't whining about fairness to say that a GAME should not kill people's fun before they can have it. This game should not have SO MANY frustrating things endemic in its construction. Is anyone at Bioware NOT a game-playing uber geek? A regular person who can maybe understand that not every player wants to or cares to be the ULTIMATE ****** SWTOR player? I mean, really, I pity that kind of person, but it seems that's the only kind Bioware hires to code and create SWTOR...

 

How about a radical rethinking of the GAME with the goal of making it a FUN GAME instead of some stupid virtual D*ck measuring contest? For real - the competition among players will always be there, Bioware does not need to construct the game so a certain player (aka no life, sit in front of computer 8 hours a day and grind grind grind) gets all the glory and everyone else is canon fodder.

 

I am a good player, especially in PVP. I have been solo and in groups. There is a definite difference and I agree, there should be warzones for solo players only as well as those for groups only.

 

Lastly, why the arbitrary limit on 4-person PVP groups? Why can't we form a full PVP group? How about less constraints and less setting everything up for the uber-geek? After all, last I checked my money was just as good, and if Bioware wants to continue receiving it from me something should be done before I say, oh well, there's always the next game to try....

 

I agree, its a game, it should be fun. However, splitting queues will do nothing but create outrageous queue times the like of which we see on the PvE side as DPS. Plenty of better solutions have been proposed in this thread, that Bioware should look into, but so far, nothing has been done.

[foxmob]

I agree, its a game, it should be fun. However, splitting queues will do nothing but create outrageous queue times the like of which we see on the PvE side as DPS. Plenty of better solutions have been proposed in this thread, that Bioware should look into, but so far, nothing has been done.

 

no. that's a completely different kind of queue that matches teams based on role. a separate solo queue would have absolutely nothing to do with the problems dps have in pve grp finder. there are other issues. just saying this isn't one of them. but that is an issue solo rated queues will face in 2.4 because that is based on role.

[Ravenschild]

A simple solution is to apply the same limits to non ranked in 2.4 that is currently applied. I.E. you cant currently group queue with the same amount of players you need for ranked. You can only do so with 50% of that. Currently that means 4 people. If they implemented this they could set it so only 2 folks could be grouped together in a reg wz once 2.4 hits. That or just get rid of grouped outside of ranked once 2.4 hits and level the playing field. I've been on both sides of this as I play both imp and pub in pvp. On my server the imps tend to run grouped by guild and the better guilds use TS,vent or mumble. The pubs dont do this nearly as much and typically when facing such its a rollover most of the time as its PUG city on the pubside in pvp. And yes as a result less people are queuing pubside. If people want to group in groups of 4 then let them do ranked once 2.4 comes out. I mean are they really going to complain that they are getting more comms when forced to go ranked when they group in a 4 man? I somehow think not and with it being 4v4 its not all that difficult to find 8 people. Edited September 7, 2013 by Ravenschild
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