Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Volthammer]

I can't believe this thread is still a thing.

 

No joke. It's about 3 years old. Since, however, people keep commenting on premades ruining PvP I wanted to chime in, again, on the premades I personally run with. We usually run in groups of 2 to 4. We do not use any kind of VOIP. We do not co-ordinate through guild chat. Know what? We just know what we're doing.

 

Several of us have tried to politely coach other players and the commonplace reaction is insults or outright ignoring us. I very frequently inspect other players and....they clearly do not understand bolster. These pugs usually get roflstomped because their toons are so weak and they repeatedly do some of the most stunningly stupid things, like solo zerging the enemy pylon on a lvl 13 Mara in AHG when there are at least 2 guards there. The majority of them truly do not seem to want to learn. Then some of them come here and whine up a storm about unfair premades when it's their own blasted fault that they get stomped over and over again.

 

For crying out loud, in a lowby WZ last night I 4v1'ed on my Op at a cap. Know why? Because they were all level 15 and under and I KNOW their expertise was 1200 and under. They popped like over ripe tomatoes. Them being level 15 and under isn't a fault of theirs. That's on Bioware and the craptastic expertise that's forced on players at that level. But, them being blown into orbit isn't due to hax0rz and uber l33t premades co-coordinating in VOIP.

 

I'll say it again, it's almost always because they don't know what they're doing and more importantly don't seem to care to learn.

[westcoastmos]

I have always felt that the level difference in midbies(sp?) (lvl 30 to 59) was the real difference maker not premades. I have beaten premades with a PUG team but 8 55+s against some 30s and 40s....*****it.

[jordhanus]

I have always felt that the level difference in midbies(sp?) (lvl 30 to 59) was the real difference maker not premades. I have beaten premades with a PUG team but 8 55+s against some 30s and 40s....*****it.

 

Skill difference >> level difference in my experience. Had the other day a 55 jugg complaining how my 37 sorc was ruining the warzone for everyone, as I was so weak etc.

 

And what did the numbers say? I had top marks with 1k dps (some 700k in total I think, to my surprise I even solo-killed a 45 slinger and 48 shadow - and I am a barely average player at the very best ), while our jugg-whiner had done almost as much healing as he did damage (some 110k each ), with 0 protection

[Deavastro]

To succeed in pvp takes preparation We all level our characters and Aquire gear, learn our classes and specs, we do all this to improve our chances of winning Running groups and using VoIP is just another extension of preparing for success in pvp, so why do people only stop at the levelling And gear part why not move on to the group and VoIP part and be complete. I think If youre not willing to do everything you need to do to compete then you have no right to complain.

 

If the players wanted to be hardcore into pvp they would do ranked warzones, wouldnt they? I mean ops are tiered into story mode, hard mode and nightmare, and the people who want to do the higher ranked ones would get team speak,they would do them with people they know can pull their own weight etc. Should the people who do story mode be held to the same standard? Is TS required for it?

 

I dunno what the general consensus among all solo queuers are but as for me, I do not care if premades queue with pugs..... as long as my team also has a premade. I dont mind loosing cause our skill level was lower than theirs, but whats the use of even attempting a huttball match if the other team has a premade with tanks and healers and your team has one tank and 7 dps all of whom are solo queuers? im not saying there arent pug players that can pull a win out of that cause they are just that good, or that there arent idiots who cant preform even when they queue as a premade but id rather avoid that scenario if possible.

 

My solution is simply this match premades with premades, and if say imp side has a 4-man premade queuing and pub side doesnt, make the imp premade split into two groups of 2-mans. worst case scenario is one of those 2-man teams doesnt get a a queue, on the other hand the 8 solo queuing pubs actually get a decent chance at a win.

 

Since this doesnt split queues it shouldnt affect queue pops at a significant rate. Friends can still queue as a group and now actually get decent competition rather than abuse the fact they have better team composition/voice chat to a "win"(i put it in air quotes cause i always wonder do premades think winning against a pug group is an accomplishment?)

[TartanCrusader]

>implying Honour and QQ are too good to be countered by pugs

 

if you have a team that's organised and know what they are doing, ye you can beat anyone. but if you have the same group of premade, match after match that are working well together....and you have pugs after pugs that don't work together...well you see where am going

[TartanCrusader]

I can't believe this thread is still a thing.

 

i'll be honest, has never been an issue for me until recently.

 

with population dwindling, more people in guilds leaving the game and same groups sticking together.....i just find when you pvp solo, with out a group of your own you get faced rolled soon as you hit a patch of matches that have premade group on other end and your in a steam that wont work together. of course if you have a team with a bit of team play about them then it can make it great but its very very rare.

 

am not against premade groups, am just highlighting that the majority of pvp now has them and due to population you end up with the same though out a night of pvp

[Morteistno]

 

Several of us have tried to politely coach other players and the commonplace reaction is insults or outright ignoring us. I very frequently inspect other players and....they clearly do not understand bolster. These pugs usually get roflstomped because their toons are so weak and they repeatedly do some of the most stunningly st...

 

So you run premades in lowbies? Guess you must feel good about yourself. Lowbies are usually full of brand new players who have no clue yet at all about how the warzone works let alone something like bolster.

 

I think premades in midbies or l60 are already a huge advantage but in lowbies they just suck completely. What you do not realize - or just don't care about in order to inflate your ego - is that what you and people like you are doing is dramatically reducing the number of players who could get into liking pvp.

 

Honestly when I play in lowbies usually 70% of my team is lower than 21 so even if they knew they could not have full expertise. I'd say the average expertise in a pug in lowbies hovers around the low 1000. Then the players will often be brand new so they won't even know the map - let alone other classes or how to cooperate.

 

On TRE there is one guild that seems to run premades all the time in lowbies lately... even for me and I do know what I am doing and have the intention of levelling up this toon as I know pvp can be a lot of fun the effect is that I will just do the minimum to complete the dailies and then not pvp in lowbies anymore. I can sortof imagine how discouraging it is for a new player.

 

The funny thing is that I find that the individual players of this guild are not even that good players. In the rare occasions that they don't gang up 4 to 1 on someone and I get to one on one one of theirs they die rather easily...

[Pherdnut]

I've more or less stopped because of it. Between the cheap server moves and conquest I'd say at least 50% of games are completely pointless. You touch their healer and they murder you with VOIP response time while your team does the usual oblivious thing. IMO there should really be a solo-only option. Random pickup matches are less fun when they're constantly being dominated by conquest farmers. And it's only going to get worse now that they've eliminated repeatable war supply points from conquest.

[Volthammer]

So you run premades in lowbies? Guess you must feel good about yourself. Lowbies are usually full of brand new players who have no clue yet at all about how the warzone works let alone something like bolster.

 

I think premades in midbies or l60 are already a huge advantage but in lowbies they just suck completely. What you do not realize - or just don't care about in order to inflate your ego - is that what you and people like you are doing is dramatically reducing the number of players who could get into liking pvp.

 

Honestly when I play in lowbies usually 70% of my team is lower than 21 so even if they knew they could not have full expertise. I'd say the average expertise in a pug in lowbies hovers around the low 1000. Then the players will often be brand new so they won't even know the map - let alone other classes or how to cooperate.

 

On TRE there is one guild that seems to run premades all the time in lowbies lately... even for me and I do know what I am doing and have the intention of levelling up this toon as I know pvp can be a lot of fun the effect is that I will just do the minimum to complete the dailies and then not pvp in lowbies anymore. I can sortof imagine how discouraging it is for a new player.

 

The funny thing is that I find that the individual players of this guild are not even that good players. In the rare occasions that they don't gang up 4 to 1 on someone and I get to one on one one of theirs they die rather easily...

 

You couldn't be more wrong. And... I had a feeling someone would find a way to twist out of context what I posted and then throw an insult my way. We PvP in every category but ranked. It's just an example. Low bracket PvP isn't allotted only to brand new players, you know. There's no moral obligation to move on to 60 regs or ranked and stay there. Ranked is jacked, anyway. Just about all any of us do in my guild is PvP with the very occasional PvE thrown in for whatever purpose, so we're constantly making new toons to PvP with. We have our consistent 60's we run, too.

 

Maybe things are just different on TRE, but on Harbinger lows has lots of lvl 20+ characters. Lots of people are doing the same thing as we are. They have their fav 60's they PvP on and character slots they use to make new toons to PvP with that will eventually be deleted only to start over. You'll just have to take my word for it when I tell you that I run with a civilized group of men and women who DO NOT troll the WZ's or simply try to crush opposing teams over and over until they rage log. We PvP for fun and strive for the objectives. Admittedly, we'll focus down the occasional jackwagon that refuses to stop running their mouth and insists on being shockingly offensive to other players. To sum, we're almost always good sports.

 

So, there's your

Guess you must feel good about yourself....or just don't care about in order to inflate your ego

 

Edited for typos.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Volthammer

[HuaRya]

As this game is passing the apex of the pvp population bell curve the persistence of premades farming lowbies, midbies, 65's is intensifying. I see this on three of the servers I play on. The most negative impact this has is in the lowbies. Once the premades get going everyone stops queuing or you get a partial team 6/8.

 

Are there any devs left that can give us a check box option similar to groupfinder 'in progress' allowing us to queue solo vs solo?

[Daxy]

One thing this permasemimediocre baddie recognizes is on weekends the extremes become more noticeable

Way more newbie and noobies in regs- all brackets

During the week I can enjoy lowbies- even try to help out but when weekend comes all bets are off- I only solo q- have no friends in game but love wz's and will continue to q but my blood pressure raises considerably sat and sun

 

The problem I'm noticing more and more is the cynicism- what is point of capping and guarding a node when no help ever comes to reinforce it?- for example- so, objective play becomes tedious, unfulfilling, and a waste so why not just treat wz as a derpytrainimg dummy. Unfortunately, many new players just "learn" to facetank mid,south,etc regardless of situation; I also believe many new pvprs have no idea what interacting with nodes even is- "WAT NODZ precious??"

 

I admit I get p.o'd all the time- I'll q on my heals and intentionally run to cap our natural node (because no one else will) and spend the whole time dancing and spamming my heals on myself as rest of team continues to die respawn and charge mid- not to mention spamming heals before wz on "tanks," asking for guard, etcetcetc

 

At the end of the day I don't begrudge premades- it's just on weekends where getting a random team who can play takes much longer on weekend than during the week

[DarthRaika]

The issue is the complete lack of matchmaking. On weekends there are plenty of premades q'n for a simple several minute matchmaking attempt to work, however BW refuses to add it. This also makes premading very boring after awhile.

 

ADD matchmaking!

[AlCorazon]

Qued as premade yesterdy, with my guild... standing at a node, guarding as Eng sniper... enemy merc comes along... i didn't even have to get up ...it was a 15 sec fight....this is pug v premade.... i think BW should make grouping teams go ranked and return 8 on 8 ranked, and for unranked you should only be able to que solo..

 

There is also a possibility that some PvP guilds just like to faceroll pugs, they don't want the fun or competition, because they leave as soon as they are faces with someone same level of skill or tougher.... seen big and japan doing it a lot lately. At least we stick around till the end if we are loosing.

Had us and big in japan against a very tough group of reps, i mean those guys were good, when pylon count was 97 and 120, big in japan bailed.. with entire team.

 

So this is a big problem, especially for lovely piercers we see a lot at warzones lately....

[Hoppinswtor]

Or, you know, it's an online video game. It's social. I have friends. I play with friends and have fun. Sometimes I play with elite players and sometimes I play with newbies. When there are no friends on, I solo queue or go get some work done. I actually enjoy solo queuing for the most part. Sometimes I get spawn camped against double premades when I solo queue, in which case I try to beat their dps (and usually do so) just for meaningless bragging rights. Sometimes my group of pugs is good enough to spawn camp mediocre premades. It's whatever. If I'm salty in a match, it's over shortly thereafter with no grudges. Edited January 11, 2016 by Hoppinswtor

[Ruhun]

Or, you know, it's an online video game. It's social. I have friends. I play with friends and have fun. Sometimes I play with elite players and sometimes I play with newbies. When there are no friends on, I solo queue or go get some work done. I actually enjoy solo queuing for the most part. Sometimes I get spawn camped against double premades when I solo queue, in which case I try to beat their dps (and usually do so) just for meaningless bragging rights. Sometimes my group of pugs is good enough to spawn camp mediocre premades. It's whatever. If I'm salty in a match, it's over shortly thereafter with no grudges.

 

Getting farmed is not fun, and while you occasionally get a garbage premade you can also get premades that use VOIP and are ranked players. They also roll with a sorc/sage healer and a tank.

 

The ranked players are more common than not, so when these premades start queueing everyone else stops.

Enjoy your dead game.

[Thaladan]

premade is not the real problem.

 

the worst is that they only play OP classes. most pathetic i see is a jugg protected by a tank and healed by a sorc (same known guild), and he died against my mate sniper and me merc/innovative ordonnance aha poor joke dude.

 

Ô glorius, Ô brave, Ô ridiculous. at least playing premade, try some difficult classes/spec. playing with friend is quite legit but at least do it with challenge.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Thaladan

[Hoppinswtor]

premade is not the real problem.

 

the worst is that they only play OP classes. most pathetic i see is a jugg protected by a tank and healed by a sorc (same known guild), and he died against my mate sniper and me merc/innovative ordonnance aha poor joke dude.

 

Ô glorius, Ô brave, Ô ridiculous. at least playing premade, try some difficult classes/spec. playing with friend is quite legit but at least do it with challenge.

 

I agree that people should try and challenge themselves by stretching out of their comfort zone. Ranged players should try melee, and vice versa.

[Lhancelot]

premade is not the real problem.

 

the worst is that they only play OP classes.

 

 

This question about premades being the problem or not is like the "chicken and the egg" theoretical question of which came first. It can be debated forever and there's no way to solving it.

 

Why?

 

Because premades can add a substantial advantage over another team that is purely a PUG. That's true. What also is true is that a pure PUG with equally skilled players can beat that premade.

 

So, which is the problem? Premades, or players with less skill in a PUG fighting the premade?

 

It boils down to match-making 100%. If players were queued against eachother with similar skill levels, along with having some sort of balance of classes on each team that match the opposite team the wzs would be more competitive.

 

Since you can't really alter the level of skill of the players entering the queues, the only way to "fix" this problem is to have a match-making system in place.

 

Without cross-server queues, or cross-faction teaming this is impossible though. There simply isn't enough players in the queues I feel for matchmaking to work unless cross-faction/cross-server queues was introduced.

 

As for people only playing FOTM or "OP'd" classes, I mean... Seriously? Why would people choose to play a IO dot specced merc, a healing merc, or a lethality ops in ranked? For the novelty of NOT playing a FOTM class? To enjoy the struggle of working hard and netting way less profit compared to if they played a more powerful class?

 

Let's be honest 99% of gamers play to win, not for the novelty of playing a non-FOTM class. Saying people should not play the most viable classes in PVP is stupid and unrealistic.

[Ruhun]

Because premades can add a substantial advantage over another team that is purely a PUG. That's true. What also is true is that a pure PUG with equally skilled players can beat that premade.

 

 

This would be true only if the premade wasn't on VOIP. That is a massive advantage due to them being able to coordinate better than a PUG.

 

Now, it would help if a lot of PUGs weren't mouthbreathers but that's a matchmaking issue.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Ruhun

[Opaknack]

Premades are not the problem.

The problem are all the players without crystals in the weapons, no augments, wrong stance / skilltree, 500 dps or hps, no taunt, no def-cds ecc.

Since 4.0 you can see a lot of them in every match.

Put 8 of them in a team (= qsync double-premade) and all in teamspeak and they will further lose every match vs a pug with 1 or 2 players with experience.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Opaknack

[Lhancelot]

This would be true only if the premade wasn't on VOIP. That is a massive advantage due to them being able to coordinate better than a PUG.

 

Now, it would help if a lot of PUGs weren't mouthbreathers but that's a matchmaking issue.

 

Yeah I undestand VOIP can add a significant advantage, but it depends who is using VOIP and who is not. Also, so much stock goes into VOIP when it's not needed the majority of the time in regs.

 

Now, in ranked yes, coordinating attacks is much easier to do with VOIP and it is necessary if you are in group ranked.

 

In regs where objectives are the goal, often times as long as your team has people with great awareness you do not need VOIP. As for calling for help, a simple typed message to the entire team works fine.

 

In fact, I been in 8v8 regs, had a node get taken, we asked why the guy did not call, and he did. He called on VOIP to his premade and half the team didn't hear it because they were not in his VOIP. True story.

 

Anyway, I think people believe in VOIP as this gigantic advantage in PVP, where as I do not. It's great for competitive group ranked 4v4s, but for 8v8s it's not needed.

[foxmob]

Getting farmed is not fun, and while you occasionally get a garbage premade you can also get premades that use VOIP and are ranked players. They also roll with a sorc/sage healer and a tank.

 

The ranked players are more common than not, so when these premades start queueing everyone else stops.

Enjoy your dead game.

tbh, a premade using voip or not has never beaten me. I die to better players, better ACs, better comps, and better focus, nothing off cd.

 

I'm not getting into the pug/premade debate. it's a trap!

 

but I will say that citing voip is a minor minor advantage that would only ever matter in a highly competitive environment (read: really good players playing against really good players). sure, the kb turning whack-a-mole would benefit MORE by using voip to call and be told what to do, but he'd be so ridiculously overmatched anyway, that those advantages would be meaningless.

[Lhancelot]

but I will say that citing voip is a minor minor advantage that would only ever matter in a highly competitive environment (read: really good players playing against really good players). sure, the kb turning whack-a-mole would benefit MORE by using voip to call and be told what to do, but he'd be so ridiculously overmatched anyway, that those advantages would be meaningless.

 

Exactly my thoughts, couldn't have said it better. That's what I was trying to express, anyway.

[Ruhun]

tbh, a premade using voip or not has never beaten me. I die to better players, better ACs, better comps, and better focus, nothing off cd.

 

I'm not getting into the pug/premade debate. it's a trap!

 

but I will say that citing voip is a minor minor advantage that would only ever matter in a highly competitive environment (read: really good players playing against really good players). sure, the kb turning whack-a-mole would benefit MORE by using voip to call and be told what to do, but he'd be so ridiculously overmatched anyway, that those advantages would be meaningless.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that VOIP alone is such a massive advantage that keyboard turners would be able to win.

What I am saying is that good players get better and are more coordinated in Premades with VOIP, and it shows.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that VOIP alone is such a massive advantage that keyboard turners would be able to win.

What I am saying is that good players get better and are more coordinated in Premades with VOIP, and it shows.

 

This is what I believe as well. The advantage is clearly on the better players, because they are used to play coordinated via voice chat.

PUGs are not used to it, I assume, at least not to the same degre as an Ranked player is used to it.

 

It's the same with carpentry : A Newbie Carpenter would not reach the same degree of efficiency as a Master in Carpentry does, no matter what.

And when a competition meant for Newbies to test their skills against each others is invaded by masters who far too easily win ALL of the prices that were meant to be for the Newbies, and the masters call that "a fair play", then something is wrong with the mentality of the masters.