Consolidated Post: APAC/Oceanic Server Concerns

[PseudoScience]

LOGIC!

 

Something the majority of these posters are short of nor understand either.

 

Most of the community understand perfectly that this is a cost cutting exercise, that's one of the reasons they are angry. The issue is multifaceted and that is just one issue among many.

 

But I seem to be trying to bring perspective to a few trolls in the post who like to agitate players under the guise of "logical" and "rational" argument.

Edited March 27, 2013 by PseudoScience

[jackdaley]

You obviously haven't read all the posts on this thread or been on the Dalbora server which has a vibrant community.

EVERYONE... AND I MEAN EVERYONE... INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT USUALLY TALK ON THE FLEET WERE DISCUSSING IT...

1 - I would say 95-99% of people are against it...

2 - About 10 - 20% have already unsubscribed last night in protest because they think BIO/EA will only pay attention unless it is affecting their income... (personally I disagree with unsubscribing before it happens... I believe it will just give BIO more ammunition to go ahead as those people are gone... it will support their case)

3 - Another 50-60% of people (including myself) will most likely unsubscribe if this actually/when goes ahead

4 - Have you actually looked at the petition which only started yesterday... it currently has 300+ signatures and is climbing as people login and find out about this server move... it will take about 1 - 2 weeks for most people to find out because not everyone plays everyday... ALSO I only know of a small number of people who actually read these forums... so the others will only find out by word of mouth

5 - BIO PAY ATTENTION... YOU NEED TO SEND AND EMAIL TO ALL YOUR APAC SUBSCRIBERS AND ALSO PUT A MESSAGE ON THE LOGIN SCREEN... IT IS WITHOUT DOUBT THE SNEAKIEST THING YOU CAN DO TO NOT GIVE ANY NOTICE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS EXCEPT IN THIS FORUM

6 - ALSO YOU SHOULD HAVE RUN AN IN GAME SURVEY OR AN EMAIL SURVEY BEFORE MAKING SWEEPING STATEMENTS LIKE THE COMMUNITY VOTED TO DO THIS... HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS IS WHAT YOUR CUSTOMERS WANT WHEN YOU HAVE ONLY ASKED ABOUT 10% OF YOUR CUSTOMER BASE ONLY IN THE FORUMS

 

BIO/EA YOU MUST ALSO GIVE YOUR SUBSCRIBERS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A FULL REFUND OF ANY PREPAID IN ADVANCE SUBSCRIPTIONS AND PREPAID EXPANSIONS BEFORE YOU MAKE THIS MOVE

 

FELLOW PLAYERS I ASK YOU NOT TO JUMP THE SHIP YET... BY ALL MEANS KEEP THE PRESURE ON... TELL THEM YOU WILL UNSUBSCRIBE... FILL IN THE PETITION... IT MIGHT NOT WORK... BUT IT IS 5 MINS OF YOUR TIME AND IT MIGHT... JUST MIGHT HAVE AN EFFECT... CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO GO TO THE PETITION

 

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/keep-apac-servers-for-swtor-available-and-merge-them-into-1.html

 

uhhhh hate to rain on your parade unless you get like 10,000 sigs EAWARE won't even pay attention because 10,000 isnt even 1% of the playerbase according to EAWARE which apparently has "2 million" accounts

 

GL though Im interested to see the outcome.........

[PPAlien]

Just to put to rest the argument that the petition is being signed by many outside of APAC, currently at 330 sigs, >95% are from APAC. Also, if you think 330 sigs isn't that many, be aware that is in 24 hours, where the number dries up when people go to bed for 12am to 9am. During waking hours the sigs/hour rises steadily increases until late evening.

At the current rate, it will be over 500 by the time I log off the game tonight.

 

SAVE THE APAC SERVER AND MERGE INTO 1 PETITION

[Bloodpuddle]

I'm not sure if you've played on any of the wonderful NA servers lately, but the lag is fantabulous. Many days, I run in place for several minutes at 5885ms, with a little red 'x' next to the latency meter. Before the server consolidation? 32ms latency. Oh, and I live in NA.

 

EA is killing the game with all of the server consolidations. Might just be time to move-on to a game that actually cares about gameplay, instead of $$.

[Jinsali]

Proof?, Evidence? or IMO just wild speculation because what you are sayin seems very VERY unlikely

 

Proof..i'm currently on Dalbora now at the Imp fleet. So thats my proof..actual viaual evidence. Wheres your proof.

[-IceHawk-]

IceHawk you are trying to bring "rationale" to a raw and emotional argument right now, what kind of sense of entitlement and purpose do you feel by agitating and already disheartened community?

Actually, the same sense of entitlement the APAC community has...that of a paying subscriber with free access to the forums.

 

Disagreement is not grounds for censure; feel free to be argumentative all you want, but until Bioware institutes an official "APAC Rant Thread" I will continue to feel free to point out that irrational emotional reactions are, in fact, irrational emotional reactions that ignore some basic realities.

 

Your assumptions that APAC players should of seen this coming and should get over it because that's just what corporations do still doesn't make it right....how about you show some compassion and let people vent?

Venting is fine.

 

Declaring that EA is completely in the wrong, fundamentally "evil" and "inhuman" and has consistently lied to APAC, or that there is no realistic foundation for this decision go beyond expressing dissatisfaction for being merged into a non-local server.

 

Quite frankly I have lobbed my fair share of criticism at Bioware and EA over the last year, but a number of you are taking it too far.

 

I am merely pointing out that yes, there is likely a clear, predictable, and realistic financial basis to this decision that unfortunately means APAC does not fit into EA's overall design plans for this title in anything but an ancillary market.

 

If the game means so much to you that multiple days worth of "venting" on the forums is an emotional necessity, find a way to adapt to the latency issues and play on the NA servers.

 

I doubt anyone wants to see the APAC community simply leave, but reality is, well, what it is in this case.

[PseudoScience]

Just to put to rest the argument that the petition is being signed by many outside of APAC, currently at 330 sigs, >95% are from APAC. Also, if you think 330 sigs isn't that many, be aware that is in 24 hours, where the number dries up when people go to bed for 12am to 9am. During waking hours the sigs/hour rises steadily increases until late evening.

At the current rate, it will be over 500 by the time I log off the game tonight.

 

SAVE THE APAC SERVER AND MERGE INTO 1 PETITION

 

Well done! I've signed it days ago and am proud the APAC community is rallying around this issue.

[LadyKohastFel]

The rot has set in, Name hijacking has begun, some lowlifes are harvesting names of people on Dalbora fleet and creating armies of alts on Harbinger with FTP accounts so that the people being transferred will have to pick a new name (or possibly pay them to delete their alt so that they can keep their name, that hasn't happened yet but I have seen this kind of character name blackmail in other games when they did server merges.)

Edited March 27, 2013 by LadyKohastFel

[Knockerz]

The rot has set in, Name hijacking has begun, some lowlifes are harvesting names of people on Dalbora fleet and creating armies of alts on Harbinger with FTP accounts so that the people being transferred will have to pick a new name (or possibly pay them to delete their alt so that they can keep their name, that hasn't happened yet but I have seen this kind of character name blackmail in other games when they did server merges.)

 

It's probably the people who will be transferring from the apac to the destination servers.

[jackdaley]

Most of the community understand perfectly that this is a cost cutting exercise, that's one of the reasons they are angry. The issue is multifaceted and that is just one issue among many.

 

But I seem to be trying to bring perspective to a few trolls in the post who like to agitate players under the guise of "logical" and "rational" argument.

 

Well it's good they understand but the big issue was population.. and now it's being fixed so yeah the ping and timezone issue sucks but atleast we get to play with a good heavy population

[Elizeth]

The rot has set in, Name hijacking has begun, some lowlifes are harvesting names of people on Dalbora fleet and creating armies of alts on Harbinger with FTP accounts so that the people being transferred will have to pick a new name (or possibly pay them to delete their alt so that they can keep their name, that hasn't happened yet but I have seen this kind of character name blackmail in other games when they did server merges.)

 

I was under the impression that whoever had the name the longest got to keep it.

[-IceHawk-]

Just to put to rest the argument that the petition is being signed by many outside of APAC, currently at 330 sigs, >95% are from APAC. Also, if you think 330 sigs isn't that many, be aware that is in 24 hours, where the number dries up when people go to bed for 12am to 9am. During waking hours the sigs/hour rises steadily increases until late evening.

At the current rate, it will be over 500 by the time I log off the game tonight.

 

SAVE THE APAC SERVER AND MERGE INTO 1 PETITION

 

Here is the fundamental problem with the petition: EA has determined that the current population does not warrant continued local investment.

 

Marshalling said population base to directly request that investment does not actually do anything that would alter the logic that went into the decision.

 

Now, if you could somehow demonstrate to EA that there is a larger base of potential players they have missed and can easily tap to increase revenue flow you might have something...

 

In reality, you guys are coming over to the NA servers or unsubbing.

 

I cannot really see any other viable option at this point as I doubt EA is going to reverse course on this one.

[Icykill_]

It is almost like EA is attempting to localize its entire player base on either NA or European servers...

 

...now why would a company that is not experiencing high-level officer turn-over in the aftermath of an investor panic over a failing multi-million dollar venture want to do that?

 

Impossible even to guess, really.

 

The stupid thing is that Australia would have a better return for EA if they charged us in Australian currency instead of US...

The economist predict that the exchange rate will remain above $1 US for the foreseeable future...

I for one would not mind paying in Australian currency...

I know this next statement will be contentious...

Personally I would pay $5 extra per month on my subscription to keep the server in Australia because I love this game so much... but I PVP 90% of the time and will have to give the game up if the server moves

Edited March 27, 2013 by Icykill_
change

[-IceHawk-]

I was under the impression that whoever had the name the longest got to keep it.

 

Actually, when the NA severs merged a number of us lost our long-standing names to native players.

[jackdaley]

Proof..i'm currently on Dalbora now at the Imp fleet. So thats my proof..actual viaual evidence. Wheres your proof.

 

The fact that EA notice the population is low enough for a merge

Edited March 27, 2013 by jackdaley

[jackdaley]

here is the fundamental problem with the petition: Ea has determined that the current population does not warrant continued local investment.

 

Marshalling said population base to directly request that investment does not actually do anything that would alter the logic that went into the decision.

 

Now, if you could somehow demonstrate to ea that there is a larger base of potential players they have missed and can easily tap to increase revenue flow you might have something...

 

In reality, you guys are coming over to the na servers or unsubbing.

 

I cannot really see any other viable option at this point as i doubt ea is going to reverse course on this one.

 

this.

[SleepyKing]

Yes, because the Revenue to Profit calculations of businesses really do work out that easily...

 

...what is the total over-head for APAC server support, including initial investment, and what is the ROI that these initial investments were predicated on, and how many subscribers must be reached to match those goals?

 

The real world economy is not Monopoly, there is more to a balance sheet than:

 

Subscriber $ - Server Fee $ = Profit

 

Neither you nor I nor anyone else in this thread has insider knowledge of the costs of running the APAC servers, nor of the revenue acquired from those customers through subscriptions and sales.

 

I'd be willing to bet, however, the total revenue from APAC customers exceeds the cost of running the servers, and that the calculus from EA is not "it costs more money to run these servers than we're making from these customers," but rather it's "we can move these customers to the US and save on server costs without any loss of revenue."

 

Okay, they'd be idiots to think that there wouldn't be some blowback from the move, but they probably think that their most valued customers - the ones who both subscribe and pump money into the market - are dedicated enough to stick with the game no matter what. At least anecdotally, I can say that isn't true. Large swathes of both my imp and pub guilds have announced they're quitting if the move takes place, including some of the most dedicated players. That will have secondary effects, like raid groups dissolving and more players quitting.

 

If I were to make a prediction, this will go down as another dumb-*** move from a company that has a serious track record of them. Maybe people won't quit in the numbers that it currently seems they will, but EA is taking a gamble here, made by bean counters who don't really get why and how people play the game.

Edited March 27, 2013 by SleepyKing

[Nommaz]

*sigh, yesterday fleet at this time 90 people (outside of peak) today 49... (on Dal)

Good Job BW Good Job

[uteboy]

and [bioware] has consistently lied to APAC

 

Well, the current line is "They listened to us, and came up with Merges to NA for the best playing experence"

 

If they think Merges to NA is the best playing experience for us, then they lied about listening to us.

 

If they actually listened to us then they are lying about it being the best playing experience.

 

If you're correct about the non-economic viability of the APAC servers ( and I won't argue the point, wouldn't surprise me at all ), then the whole statement is a lie.

 

You could argue it's merely left out some key information ( they listened, BUT CHOSE TO IGNORE US, and came up with merges to NA for the best playing experience ), but imho the exclusion is tantamount to lying anyway.

 

If they came out and stated that it's not economically viable to run APAC servers, then so be it. I'd at least respect them for being honest. But as long as they continue with the "We listened" line, we're perfectly justified in pointing out to them that they really really didn't.

[Icykill_]

*sigh, yesterday fleet at this time 90 people (outside of peak) today 49... (on Dal)

Good Job BW Good Job

 

THIS ^

 

Way to drive the customers away BIO

 

PLEASE SIGN

 

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/keep-apac-servers-for-swtor-available-and-merge-them-into-1.html

[PseudoScience]

Declaring that EA is completely in the wrong, fundamentally "evil" and "inhuman" and has consistently lied to APAC, or that there is no realistic foundation for this decision go beyond expressing dissatisfaction for being merged into a non-local server. .

 

That is just a strong reaction from an angry community. EA should take some heat for this. The APAC community has been treated us like second class citizens since beta.

 

Limited access for APAC players in beta

Classed as "red zoners" at launch and made to wait 3 months for the game to launch in our region

When the character slots increased on NA and EU servers to 12 slots we had to demand we get that also

EA ignored the population issues for months and compounded the problem so more and more people left

Now they are shutting APAC servers down

 

When EA has this track record with our community you wonder why they get this strong reaction and why the population ran for the hills in the first place. I appreciate them giving us local servers but they are taking that away.

 

I get that you don't have a vested interest or don't really care but all I'm saying is to get some perspective, you're not on EA's payroll so don't act like it.

Edited March 27, 2013 by PseudoScience

[-IceHawk-]

Neither you nor I nor anyone else in this thread has insider knowledge of the costs of running the APAC servers, nor of the revenue acquired from those customers through subscriptions and sales.

 

I'd be willing to bet, however, the total revenue from APAC customers exceeds the cost of running the servers, and that the calculus from EA is not "it costs more money to run these servers than we're making from these customers," but rather it's "we can move these customers to the US and save on server costs without any loss of revenue."

 

Okay, they'd be idiots to think that there wouldn't be some blowback from the move, but they probably think that their most valued customers - the ones who both subscribe and pump money into the market - are dedicated enough to stick with the game no matter what. At least anecdotally, I can say that isn't true. Large swathes of both my imp and pub guilds have announced they're quitting if the move takes place, including some of the most dedicated players. That will have secondary effects, like raid groups dissolving and more players quitting.

 

If I were to make a prediction, this will go down as another dumb-*** move from a company that has a serious track record of them. Maybe people won't quit in the numbers that it currently seems they will, but EA is taking a gamble here, made by bean counters who don't really get why and how people play the game.

Agreed; A point I made in another thread is that we are not looking at an issue of marginal profitably. What we are looking at is an issue of ROI-thresholds and the plan for long-term viability in this title.

 

Quite frankly I bet EA already has an APAC-attrition number built into their projections.

 

Whatever the detailed internal analysis came to fundamentally EA has determined their long-term strategy for this game to return the expected ROI does not include investment in localized APAC servers.

 

They retain those subscriptions they can, moving them onto existing and therefore fixed or at least budgeted cost NA servers, and make the title a little leaner and centralize their player base on only two-sets of continental servers.

[Icykill_]

well, the current line is "they listened to us, and came up with merges to na for the best playing experence"

 

if they came out and stated that it's not economically viable to run apac servers, then so be it. I'd at least respect them for being honest. But as long as they continue with the "we listened" line, we're perfectly justified in pointing out to them that they really really didn't.

 

peace is a lie... And bio are lying to our faces... So we are passionate...

[Jinsali]

Very Doubtful...

 

But again this whole thread/arguement is a invalid anyway because we're finally getting moved to Servers with A HEALTHY POPULATION!

 

3pm Sydney time..

school just finished..so kids arent home..

dayshift workrs who start at 6am probably are, but are most likely having a drink

office workers still at work.

 

Numbers Imp side

Fleet 53

Korribaan 35

Hutta 11

Dromund Kaas 45

Taris 11

Hoth 14

Corelia 4

Ilum 5

Quesh 2

Tatooine 11

Balmora 24

Alderaan 18

Nar Shaddaa 16

Voss 13

Belsavis 18

 

so a total of 286 ppl online during non-peak hours excluding people doing ship missions, Warzones and flashpoints.

 

Seems like a lot more than you reckon than are on during peak times.

[DaftVaduhhh]

Electronic Arts has one of the worst brand-images in the entirety of the gaming community, in fact I have difficulty thinking of another company that is as equally reviled by its own customers as EA.

 

And to put it bluntly; why would EA care about brand image in a marketplace they have just left?

 

The APAC decision will have little to no bearing on its NA or European marketplaces.

Right off the bat, you have failed to understand what I am implying as a strategy. This is a low cost, potential PR boon that can fly in the face of consumer opinion on EA. Right now people begrudgingly hand their money over to EA because they control key licenses and the odd successful bit of IP. Fifa, Madden and a host of other sports franchises speak to that.

 

I actually remember a time when they were recognised for fostering creativity and pushing forward as a market leader, rather than a massive cash cow with monopolistic properties.

 

Are you referring to the post in which you referred to EA as a failing company and described the lack of content as indicative of a refusal on EA's part to go further into investment for development?

 

Yeah, I felt you fundamentally described the financial fear of EA investors to convince them not to continue low-ROI investment sufficiently enough that I need not add to it.

 

I mean, you do realize that arguing EA is a failing company that just put itself through a financial panic over a failing AAA title that was not living up to expectations of ROI is actually a logical extension of the reasoning behind closing low ROI-marketplaces like APAC...

 

You fundamentally agreed with me in a poor attempt to invalidate my argument, so I let it stand.

There's a reason why investor concerns should always be looked at with a pinch of salt, the least of which is to do with the fundamentally understood semi-strong efficiency theory of markets. A lack of corporate transparency, which EA is renowned for, causes a slump like you describe. What's worse is that some of the people in charge of the purse strings appear to lack an understanding of the industry as a whole, and cling to AAA products exclusively, which defeats the point of even being in a creative space.

 

I'm not advocating throwing caution to the wind, but only churning out carbon copies is quite clearly killing brands and development studios the world over in this space, and EA is naive enough to think that this alone is a winner. Relying on investors who more often than not are advised by people who have a rudimentary understanding of the underpinning of such markets when they are not based around traditional resources is a doomed prospect.

 

Attempting to offer an educated summary to these investors would serve them well, but they fail to offer this here, and they fail to offer this in general. They talk the financial language with little colour in the way of industry speak and knowledge. A total disconnect from the production line to corporate dooms any company, and that is what you are witnessing.

 

All very good questions I would assume EA has taken into consideration.

And considering that after all of these concerns, and the obvious consequences this move would have on the APAC subscription base, that EA is still shutting down the servers and leaving the marketplace should tell you all you need to know about the in-house answers...

I feel like we don't have all the answers required to see this logic, and myself and many others simply wish to hear/see more. I think if the answers were as simple as you claim, they would have outright said it's not financially viable.

 

What stuns me is that both you and they think there is something of significantly greater return to be done with the resources.

 

So in short, your argument is that EA has badly mismanaged its own financial planning, failed to properly invest in the APAC marketplace, and despite the obvious issues with the tact they have chosen have decided this makes internal (ie: financial) sense for the company as it clearly is not prioritizing the best interests of the APAC players themselves.

 

Yeah, you totally disagree with me and disproved my analysis.

 

Good work.

They have shown an inability to dissuade themselves from maximising the bottom line within a 6 month window, because apparently every last penny counts to investors on a quarterly report, even when you can more than adequately account for budgetary increases.

 

Basically what you're implying repeatedly is that the APAC servers are making a staggering loss, and the metrics point to people pouring into NA servers any way, so let's boot off the last 10,000. How were they making money before? Were they projecting these three servers would be constantly full, even when there had been no new content for 5 months?

 

How stupid are these people? How stupid are you?

Edited March 27, 2013 by DaftVaduhhh