Chalupador Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 hmmm.... this game is more enjoyable though. Just take a step back and see the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecooljason Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 SWTOR is WAY better than WOW. And don't be deceived, SWTOR already has a large player base, and is bound to get way more people. And most of the people who play, love it. So you my friend are in a small, but loud, minority. The people who dislike the game QQ on the forums incessantly, while the people who love the game play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teilo Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) For a person who gave quiet an impressive background, I'm surprised to see him so blinded by biased in his review. I would sit down and pick apart and create a counter argument for each sloppy/picked apart point you try to raise however i just don't have the patients. Nice attempt at a review though i give you credit for your effort. I have no problem with bad reviews for games i actually like. However when you start to pick apart mechanics that have been stated as "here its going to be" even before Beta you know there is a weak review. As a side note there are plenty of arguments for and against auto attack, personally im more in favor of AA. However i have heard both sides and respect both theoretical views on which is "better". Whether the game uses auto attack or not you need to set your biased tendencies away when reviewing; review the manual attack for what it is. If your not lieing on your background congratulations you have achieved a great deal in the gaming community. However you have shown that it takes a lot more to write a reliable non biased review. Also on the stance of your rhetoric it has more holes in it then swiss cheese. This game needs and will be improved, i am impressed with this game thus far but i do have my gripes. Edited December 23, 2011 by Teilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrigOrion Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. For ToR, unfortunately, mostly the worst. This isn't my first review - I reviewed the game during the beta several times, but I was shunned by incredulous and overzealous fans. After all, it was "just" a beta. Well here we are, at the dawn of release - no longer in the beta. So where does this game stand in the grand scheme of things? How does it compare to WoW, SWG, Rift, GW2? Lets find out. Who am I? I'm some dude that led a top-US CS:S team for many years, was a part of two top-10 WoW guilds, and played in several WoW Arena Tournies I stopped reading right there. You're problem is that you are a WoW kiddie and think that WoW is the end-all be-all of MMOs. I tried WoW in November 2004, immediately recognized it for the stinking pile of crap it is, knew that it would attract a very large number of idiots to play it, left and never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valsheres Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I stopped reading right there. You're problem is that you are a WoW kiddie and think that WoW is the end-all be-all of MMOs. I tried WoW in November 2004, immediately recognized it for the stinking pile of crap it is, knew that it would attract a very large number of idiots to play it, left and never looked back. i stopped reading right there, your problem is that your a tor kiddie and think that tor is the end-all be-all of mmo's i tried tor in december 2011 immediately recognized it as no better than 2004 wow knew that it would attract a very large number of biased fanboy idiots, left and never looked back see what i did there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesmith Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Why do people insist on comparing games? Play both if you want to, or don't...nobody really cares. Probably the same reason people make comments such as yours, because they are _ _ _ _ _. Fill in the blank hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 The dead horse of the week - "Go back to WoW." And before I go on: I don't mean that as an insult. Seriously. There's absolutely no reason why SWTOR, Rift, WoW and the plethora of other MMOs cannot co-exist within the same market. You know how gamers win this battle? By not only having one MMO to go to. Be glad you can make the choice on what game you want to play, because that choice might not always be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranid Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 So what you are saying. TOR is not like WOW. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrigOrion Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. For ToR, unfortunately, mostly the worst. This isn't my first review - I reviewed the game during the beta several times, but I was shunned by incredulous and overzealous fans. After all, it was "just" a beta. Well here we are, at the dawn of release - no longer in the beta. So where does this game stand in the grand scheme of things? How does it compare to WoW, SWG, Rift, GW2? Lets find out. Who am I? I'm some dude that led a top-US CS:S team for many years, was a part of two top-10 WoW guilds, and played in several WoW Arena Tournies I stopped reading right there. You're problem is that you are a WoW kiddie and think that WoW is the end-all be-all of MMOs. I tried WoW in November 2004, immediately recognized it for the stinking pile of crap it is, knew that it would attract a very large number of idiots to play it, left and never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valsheres Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I stopped reading right there. You're problem is that you are a WoW kiddie and think that WoW is the end-all be-all of MMOs. I tried WoW in November 2004, immediately recognized it for the stinking pile of crap it is, knew that it would attract a very large number of idiots to play it, left and never looked back. repost fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malvorno Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Honestly, both WoW and TOR feel pretty similar. The only difference is, I'm excited to play TOR whereas I wouldn't even play WoW if it was F2P. WoW has over 10 years of development. Compare this to what, 5 years of story writing and 3 years of development. Not a fair comparison really, doesn't matter if the game has been online since 2004. MMORPGs are constantly evolving so 10 years of development will get a lot more done than 3 years of development. Even so I would never consider going back to WoW. All I can say is give the devs more time. I think they've done a great job with the game. My only gripe is in some of the cinematics my IA shoots people with his invisible gun. My server doesn't have queue times so i consider myself lucky. But story is awesome (even the collect this kill that quests!) I like the no auto attack, I've found a group for every heroic, FP, w/e within 10 minutes of searching, the UI is weak, probably the worst feature of the game, but once mods are allowed (and don't kid yourself, they are coming) that wont even matter. The WoW UI was equally terrible from what I remember. My advice is play whichever game you want. No one is forcing you, no one cares how good you are at games, no one cares how many commas I use, no one cares about your opinion (not review) nor mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHouse Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Forums: Because the internet wasn't hateful and opinionated enough Edited December 23, 2011 by RobHouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvvx Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) I would sit down and pick apart and create a counter argument for each sloppy/picked apart point you try to raise however i just don't have the patients. Nice attempt at a review though i give you credit for your effort. I have no problem with bad reviews for games i actually like. However when you start to pick apart mechanics that have been stated as "here its going to be" even before Beta you know there is a weak review. If you're referring you the no-autoattack decision, I was looking forward to it. In beta, I mostly played in IA. The autoattack problem wasn't as noticeable, but with the Sith Warrior I have on live, it's very obviously a poor game design decision. The things you are talking about in your review are true, I just strongly disagree with most of your opinionated responses to them: I LIKE no auto-attack, I find it makes combat more involved. I LIKE the types of quests we are given, I found stupid vehicle and bombing quests in WoW frustrating and boring. I enjoy the companion system, and I think it's a valuable add-on. You seem to just list the game's features and then say you don't like them. I like them. While your review consists of factual information, I disagree with it. I think that it's fine you like those things, but you still have to argue your case. Why do fetch-quests and click-quests provide more gameplay value than interesting WoW-type of quests? I think the no-autoattack is an interesting debate because there's valid points to both sides and in some cases it may actually BE a good idea (like the IA) but in others (like the SW) it seems regressive. Edited December 23, 2011 by dvvx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginSucks Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Why do people insist on comparing games? Play both if you want to, or don't...nobody really cares. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiachsidhe Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Who am I? I'm some dude that led a top-US CS:S team for many years, was a part of two top-10 WoW guilds, and played in several WoW Arena Tournies (including the CGS invitational) and many many CS tournaments, including the CPL. I also had a stint working for an indie game developer several years ago. I like to think that I know what I'm talking about, and usually, I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 If you're referring you the no-autoattack decision, I was looking forward to it. In beta, I mostly played in IA. The autoattack problem wasn't as noticeable, but with the Sith Warrior I have on live, it's very obviously a poor game design decision. I think that it's fine you like those things, but you still have to argue your case. Why do fetch-quests and click-quests provide more gameplay value than interesting WoW-type of quests? I think the no-autoattack is an interesting debate because there's valid points to both sides and in some cases it may actually BE a good idea (like the IA) but in others (like the SW) it seems regressive. Wow type quests ARE fetch and click quests.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvvx Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Wow type quests ARE fetch and click quests.. BC, WotlK, and now Cataclysm have moved way past fetch and click. I can still remember lassoing nether-rays in BC, doing bombing runs over Hellfire, surfing on harpoons in WotlK, or dodging sharks in Cataclysm. Say what you will, but Blizzard has been seriously pushing the envelope when it comes to how questing is done. Like I said, VO is a huge improvement as well, but the gameplay isn't there to justify it. Edited December 23, 2011 by dvvx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keii Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Ladies and Gentlemen, for his next review, he'll review a game in the early stages of development against a game that has had 15 years to mature! It will blow your minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 BC, WotlK, and now Cataclysm have moved way past fetch and click. I can still remember lassoing nether-rays in BC, doing bombing runs over Hellfire, surfing on harpoons in WotlK, or dodging sharks in Cataclysm. Say what you will, but Blizzard has been seriously pushing the envelope when it comes to how questing is done. Like I said, VO is a huge improvement as well, but the gameplay isn't there to justify it. I know. I played the same content. It's kill-click-fetch with dressing. Even the quests that are different are vast exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomolee Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 BC, WotlK, and now Cataclysm have moved way past fetch and click. I can still remember lassoing nether-rays in BC, doing bombing runs over Hellfire, surfing on harpoons in WotlK, or dodging sharks in Cataclysm. Say what you will, but Blizzard has been seriously pushing the envelope when it comes to how questing is done. Like I said, VO is a huge improvement as well, but the gameplay isn't there to justify it. Hate to say it, but the quest inovation in WoW didn't really do it for me. The mechanics felt forced. The bombing runs in Hellfire, I just hoped that I got em all on the first run so I didn't have to suffer through it again. See what that is, its called an opinion. I have mine, you have yours. GIve me fetch and click with great story over 1/2 baked lore normally lacking any real context, tied to a 'meh' attempt at innovation. Dodging sharks would be more fun if i actually had an attachment to WHY i was dodging sharks. SW:TOR does that for me, WoW never did. P.S. Don't get me wrong, I loved WoW back in the day. Played it from Vanilla all the way to Cata, with downtimes in between. I'll probably even try the new expansion. OH, and calling me a bioware fanboy doesn't really hurt, I know a solid game company when I see it. I hope they make boatloads of cash. =0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It's just an absurd argument to make. But let's say there are so really innovative quests for the sake of argument... For every one of them there are literally hundreds of fetch quests! To pretend otherwise is a complete credibility killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvvx Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 Dodging sharks would be more fun if i actually had an attachment to WHY i was dodging sharks. SW:TOR does that for me, WoW never did. If you want to make this an argument on story vs. gameplay, I think you're on the losing side. It's not an opinion asserting that gameplay is paramountly more important than story (many games could be my case in point: Mario, Rayman, Sonic, Plants vs. Zombies). People would much rather play a game with good mechanics and a mediocre story rather than a game with AAA story and awful mechanics. SWTOR is dangerously grazing the latter category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyoyeCalisse Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I would give your well written review credibility if you weren't comparing a 7 year old MMO to a MMO that has just been released. MMOs grow and evolve and WoW is no exception. You can't compare a team that has mostly never done a MMO and a team that has been working on a MMO and its expansions for 7 years. This is why I think its silly to review or compare MMOs until they are dead or near dead. Instead compare this, WoW at launch and Old Republic at launch. Which is better? Hands down SWTOR.... believe me I know I've experienced both. Which will be better as the development team progresses? Who knows, but I intend to wait and see. Couldn't agree more. While perusing the great many threads complaining about the lack of this or that and how said lack is unacceptable, terrible, stupid, etc, I find myself thinking about how wow was just after launch. It's obvious to me that most people complaining about lack of said features (combat log as example) haven't played wow at launch. If they had, they'd know the combat log wasn't part of Wow on release, only coming a few months after. Most nifty features about wow were added much after launch (achievements and guild achievements as example). On things like class balance at launch, TOR blows WoW out the window (anyone remember vanilla druids and how broken they were?) I'm sure upcoming updates will add all the functionalities (combat log, macro support, etc) currently missing in the (hopefully near) future. Until then, I'll enjoy the game the way it is right now, knowing that it may not be perfect, but it's got amazing potential to grow into an even better game than wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrigan Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 This quizzical gameplay choice hurts more than it helps. It means that the gamer needs to manually press 1-1-1-1-1 (or right-click like a madman) to use the regular "white attack" ability and to generate resources that one may use (in the case of the Warrior-archetypes). Not only is this boring, but it literally provides zero gameplay improvement - what is the reasoning behind no auto-attack? Who knows.I don't think you understood how combat works in SW:TOR if you spam "1-1-1". The ability is a filler, not the replacement of an auto attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 this made me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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