Powertech in 1.4......Devs please read

[nDjiin]

Having read the patch notes I must say that I am now troubled by what you have done to the class. You have made it a full melee class, but instead of adding the skills that every other melee class you have actually reduced one of the 2 limited ways it has of getting into combat. I am of course talking about that lack of a closer.

 

All other melee classes have a way of getting to a target quickly (the operative only had stealth but will have a 6 second sprint come 1.4). The grapple is of no use in PvE and resolve makes it useless half the time in PvP. The only thing that we had going for us was a 50% slow - also useless in PvE (I am talking about boss fights) but that wasn't too bad as we could use certain skills to keep DPS up - but that is not longer an option either.

 

I am not sure if they have done this deliberalty or not - I was starting to think that BW were trying to remove class imbalance from the game but if they leave the powertech as they are proposing, they will be seriously reduced in PvE usefulness, with huge amounts of time where they are out of combat range. That is really not acceptable. Even a fraction of a second of DPS downtime when doing progression raids can lead to us hitting an agro timer.

 

There is a very easy way to fix this - give us the jet charge ability as a standard skill and not one that can only be specced into high up the tank tree. You really have to do this or you are going to ruin the powertech as a DPS in PvE. From a business point of view it was ok to do this to a class when the game was popular, but the last thing you need now is people stopping playing due to not being picked for raids anymore.

 

While they are at it give us an agro dump also - not sure why this is even an issue.

Edited September 10, 2012 by nDjiin

[DakoHawk]

While they are at it give us an agro dump also - not sure why this is even an issue.

 

Did you not see how long it took them to give commando's an interrupt. I imagine we will get an aggro dump, just like every other class, .......sometime next summer.

[Canga]

I can only agree with OP, the proposed changes really re-defines the class in a bad way. With the AP being the pure melee, the Pyro felt as a good middle ground, able to dish out some damage from range. Further it makes the spec fairly uninteresting as it pretty much forces PVE raiders to not choose the TD (TD was really only good for being able to keep dps up from range) which makes the rotation even more static and uninteresting.

 

Should the class had been defined as a pure melee to start with, I'd gone with the Merc.

 

Suggestions:

- Increase the heat cost on IM to prevent it from being spammed in PVP

- Increase the heat cost on TD and make RP proc the next TD free

 

The above prevents dot spamming and limits burst in a PVP environment while making the rotation a tad bit more interesting.

[Macroecon]

I was stunned when I read the patch notes for 1.4. This was definitely NOT previewed in the prior list of changes.

 

It is almost as if BW listened to the complaints of Merc Pyros who correctly noted the continued imbalance towards PT Pyros over Merc Pyros. But they responded to that by nerfing Merc Pyros a little and PT Pyros a LOT. As a Merc Pyro, I can only say - "Welcome, you are now tied with us as the WORST subclass in the game!".

 

Seriously at this point, why would anyone pick PT Pyro over Operative dps? Operative dps retain a better assortment of long range attacks, are more deadly at close range, AND have concealment. If a PT Pyro gets the jump on a Operative dps, the Operative dps will stealth exit combat and come back at you later with a surprise attack. If an Operative dps gets a jump on the PT Pyro, the PT Pyro will......die. No KB, weakened snare, no escape ability. You are toast.

 

BW went out of their way to buff the two subclasses that give PT dps the most trouble, Concealment dps and Assassins. Then they decided that wasn't enough so they whipped out the outright nerf bat to use on PTs. Doh.

[TheronFett]

Let's just be honest here, this was a needed change.

 

Powertech has obviously been a melee-heavy class since launch, with some ranged abilities thrown in due to their lack of defensive CDs that other melee classes have. In PvE, DPS classes don't take much damage in a group setting, so it's a moot point for PvE. Pyros need to be in melee range for all aspects of the spec to work properly anyway.

 

The major unbalance was in PvP, where Pyros always wind up with top damage will little risk. This coming from someone who has played PT since beta. Pyro is so easy to play, a child could do it. With a proper rotation, your target can be nearly dead by the time you close the gap to melee range. PvP is all about burst damage, and Pyros do it easier than any other class, to the point of ridiculousness. Now they will have to actually put themselves into the fray with other melee without being able to have a free 50% HP reduction on their target before closing the gap.

[Sowwy]

Let's just be honest here, this was a needed change.

 

Powertech has obviously been a melee-heavy class since launch, with some ranged abilities thrown in due to their lack of defensive CDs that other melee classes have. In PvE, DPS classes don't take much damage in a group setting, so it's a moot point for PvE. Pyros need to be in melee range for all aspects of the spec to work properly anyway.

 

The major unbalance was in PvP, where Pyros always wind up with top damage will little risk. This coming from someone who has played PT since beta. Pyro is so easy to play, a child could do it. With a proper rotation, your target can be nearly dead by the time you close the gap to melee range. PvP is all about burst damage, and Pyros do it easier than any other class, to the point of ridiculousness. Now they will have to actually put themselves into the fray with other melee without being able to have a free 50% HP reduction on their target before closing the gap.

 

I agree with this. I personally would have preferred a reduction in damage than a reduction to range, but it could level the playing field a little. We're still going to be able to dart in and out of the pocket, pillar hump better than most other classes, but in my opinion, it the utility in tactics that much more appealing, especially with the buff. I hope its enough to balance the class.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I don't mind the 10m change in those abilities. I was always within that range anyways. My only issue really is with Grapple. I think it needs to not add to resolve and not be affected by resolve anymore since we are now a melee class. I think that should be changed. I don't think it needs a reduced cool down. But the changes I mentioned would put us in line with the other melee classes.

[nDjiin]

Let's just be honest here, this was a needed change.

 

Powertech has obviously been a melee-heavy class since launch, with some ranged abilities thrown in due to their lack of defensive CDs that other melee classes have. In PvE, DPS classes don't take much damage in a group setting, so it's a moot point for PvE. Pyros need to be in melee range for all aspects of the spec to work properly anyway.

 

The major unbalance was in PvP, where Pyros always wind up with top damage will little risk. This coming from someone who has played PT since beta. Pyro is so easy to play, a child could do it. With a proper rotation, your target can be nearly dead by the time you close the gap to melee range. PvP is all about burst damage, and Pyros do it easier than any other class, to the point of ridiculousness. Now they will have to actually put themselves into the fray with other melee without being able to have a free 50% HP reduction on their target before closing the gap.

 

I was mainly referring to PvE, and as a strong PvE'er I can assure if left like this then the class will be pointless as DPS.

With regards to PvP, yes they can do too much surge. I can see that the distance that the powertechs can begin their attacks was too high and they have addressed this - which I agree with. But I never thought they would just leave it at that. I mean, its ludicrous to think that this is the final build for the powetech - why would they even have the pyrotech tree if they have decided to nerf it to that extent. And the AP tree is going to be only marginally better imo as they at least have hydraulic overdrives - letting them get in to range a bit quicker.

 

I had let myself believe that they were going to redesign the class in a way that makes it interesting to play and not be OP in pvp. So I am making this thread in the hope that someone reads it and sees that they need to do something about it.

 

I will be sorry to see my first character become unplayable but I am one of the fortunates in that I have another equally geared DPS class to fall back on - but not everyone is lucky enough to have the time to have done this. What are they going to do?

[mugen_dom]

I also WANT jetcharge across the board with these changes its NEEDED. Unless we get to use grapple for free, and on a lower cooldown we are screwed. We will be the ones getting kited now... Edited September 11, 2012 by mugen_dom

[CBRGhostRider]

They nerfed PT anti-kiting and range, while simultaneously buffing sprint for sorcs/assassins. Snipers will also take us apart before we get close to 10 m.

 

Bioware has a bad habit of nerfing classes to the ground. Look at operatives and mercs... once dps kings... then nerfed... and finally buffed again a year later. Unsub and come back next year, and things will be normal.

[mugen_dom]

Will just have to send my gear to my merc

Or roll tank and regrind gear, AFTER fully optimizing the PT's gear

[warultima]

No one likes to be normal after being "super special" after so long.

Now I can already see how PT can be perma Kited.

 

Sorry for the PT/VG fotm rerolls tho. Good sorc can now realistically kite you and tickle you to death.

Edited September 11, 2012 by warultima

[Slicksteezin]

Boo Hoo. lets play one of the most OP classes in the game and cry when they make a slight nerf.

 

Come on, in ways some of the things you said are valid, but powertechs are really in no position to be complaining about anything....

[mugen_dom]

Well, look at it this way, the Jug has a gap closer that isnt effected by resolve...we DONT. What are we supposed to do with grapple? Pull a guy to us? REALLY? That doesnt work all the time. It builds resolve, if we're to be the melee BH then give us jetcharge period. Theres no other solution to making us melee. We're limited to 10 meters now so how else are we supposed to cope with being melee?

 

And to be honest I like being melee, Ive played PT from launch, I didnt choose it after finding out how powerful it is. Its not like being a god...but it is very strong. BUT its not without its weaknesses. Now try being a marauder or jug with no leap...see how that works out for you.

Edited September 11, 2012 by mugen_dom

[Kothakk]

Boo Hoo. lets play one of the most OP classes in the game and cry when they make a slight nerf.

 

Come on, in ways some of the things you said are valid, but powertechs are really in no position to be complaining about anything....

 

Slight nerf? The 10 meter on TD and IM I have no problems with, now we are forced into melee range. However the % on our snare goes down to 30% and mara have a 50% snare for 12 seconds. Do tell me, how are we gonna get in range to get the damage done? Im eager to hear your thoughts on that one. Still a slight nerf or you one of the gloaters?

[Soull]

don't forget that assassins have a 50% snare. and if they're deception spec'd (which a lot will be after 1.4) then the snare lasts longer than the cd. TD range being reduced to 10m, i don't get. not all PT's that pvp put 31 points into pyro. many just go 25-28 points in. and IM being put in a 10m range, i really see no reason to that. just make rapid shots and explosive dart 10m as well and just call PT's a melee class.

 

my main is a sin, and my 2nd toon is a sniper, and i still don't agree with these changes. nerf the DoT damage if you were going to do anything. that can crit for some stupid damage, which is the real reason you see PT's on top of damage after WZ's. and whoever said increase the heat cost on IM. no one spams IM. it already is too heat intensive to spam.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Soull

[SneiK]

I'm sort of happy, that the Pyro is getting quite a rough treatment. The only change that's necessary really, is the TD 10m range. But after that...It's the BW treatment.

 

I'm just so tired of seeing Pyros around wz and the crying from the community to nerf them.

 

AP is more fun.

[nDjiin]

You are completely right - the Powertech DPs trees are in need of some serious work - but exactly that - SERIOUS work. Not what they are giving us here - whats the point of breaking a class past the point of it being competitive (and I dont expect to be picked for end game raids if the suggested update goes ahead).

 

They stated that they were going to be made into a pure melee class - thats great - no one wants an OP class that can do a great deal of damage ranged as well as crazy damage at melee range. SO I say keep the prososed changes but in addition do the following :

 

Remove Jet Charge from the Shield Tech Tree - make this a Powertech ability that can be learned at level 18 or so. I was thinking of there being an issue with having this ability and hydraulic overrides (on the AP tree) but tbh there are classes with greater mobility than this would give so I say leave it in as a great boost to the underused AP tree.

 

its is as simple as that - you have given us the range of a melee class, now give us the tools with which to play the role effectively. It really is not a big ask (plus it would make the class soooo much more interesting to play - we have been begging for something more from the class since beta) - so please BW Devs - step up and steer away from picking one class to throw to the wolves each patch. There is no need for it.

[oakamp]

Boo Hoo. lets play one of the most OP classes in the game and cry when they make a slight nerf.

 

Come on, in ways some of the things you said are valid, but powertechs are really in no position to be complaining about anything....

 

wow, l2p, pt is so squishy, now they nerf it both pve and pvp, no more pt dps.

good job, crier.

[Ewgal]

I think the adjustments to Powertech/Vanguard are fair enough myself. Since they are tank/ DPS OT class should they really be ranged too? I think not. May take a little readjustment, but this is a change for the better. After all if want to play ranged DPS simply choose Merc/ Comm at lvl 10.

[Infalliable]

I have to see how it plays, but the loss of essentially all true ranged skills is depressing.

[Suryi]

I really don't understand how the 10m change to IM/TD completely breaks the spec in PvE :/ Sure it's a nerf to overall DPS because of uptime but we'll still bring strong sustained DPS when we're in our 10m/4m range. I don't see why you would never get picked for a raid again lol...

[BobaFaceroll]

I hate to say it but this is exactly what I expected. Range nerfed, ability to stay in range (relevant to PvP) nerfed, ability to close gaps unchanged. Well done Bioware.

 

The change from the original post is a simple swap that would address all concerns with limited range for Pyros. Make Jet Charge a 15sec skill that's open to all PT and make Grapple the high threat longer cool down tank tree skill. Both DPS and tanks now have the ability to close gaps (and as often as Mara/Jugg/Sin) so that short range isn't a problem. This is great for all 3 PT specs. The amount of people grappling folks in to hazards is reduced as well so PTs fall in line with Sins and there's less whining about fire pits in Huttball. It's a winner all around.

 

It seemed so obvious. I guess that's why it didn't happen.

 

Note: I use my Pyro as my PvE DPS. I could care less if I never PvP again with it, and that's even before reading these changes. Not full WH (2 pieces), not interested in grinding it out on another character, don't care how many people whine about PT/VG in PvP.

[Leovinus]

Exclusively PvE perspective incoming:

 

Pretty much what everyone else has been saying. I'm fine with the nerf to our range, though it is annoying. But we need SOMETHING for a gap closer that works in all cases (save things in cover like everyone else). Though I do have to wonder about the point of keeping railshot's range as is, while nerfing that of IM. We have no way of making things vulnerable to RS outside of 10 m now, so the only time it would be used at that range is if we were jousting out (very, very situational).

 

Jet charge, please.

[nDjiin]

I think the adjustments to Powertech/Vanguard are fair enough myself. Since they are tank/ DPS OT class should they really be ranged too? I think not. May take a little readjustment, but this is a change for the better. After all if want to play ranged DPS simply choose Merc/ Comm at lvl 10.

 

That is not what I am questioning - I agree with the ranged nerfs - they shold beone or another - what I am saying is that PT's need to be treated as any other melee class (if they are not seen as a melee class, then why nerf the range?). They need to be given a range closing ability to get into combat like any other melee class.

 

Take it from someone that has played this class since beta - if this goes ahead then the class will be broken and you have to ask yourself 'if they can do this to this class, what are they capable of doing to any other class - and other aspects in the game'. At which point you need to think about if you want to continue to invest time and money in a game that has developers that are so short sighted they have almost no idea what constitutes to a game breaking mechanic change.