Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

[MusicRider]

You will now, unless u been twinking in sub 50.

My other class, even as a tank spec will/should control you enough that you will have now way out now. I will be CCing, you after my immunity wears off, and "LoSing, AKA: ridin ur azz" between. No, not every sage here thinks its a good thing because as soon as you introduce more than one person in a senario, all the "its great" logic goes right out the window. We get gbangd all the effin time..

 

GL getting that wave to work, but what do I know about this class..... ( retired my 90 valor WH sage 8-02-2012 friend.)

 

Good to meet you but with your tank spec you will do nothing as such but anyway. The topic of what you read is about the distance/range to keep a melee class and in particular maras. The guy above supports that if you knockback a melee at over 10m distance is a bad thing while I would love it to knockthem back as far as possible and hence how our debate started and escalated into other things. So please read the thread and not one line sentence because you became offended about your class. I nvever said that the 120 is a good thing, on the contrary its a serious nerf as good sents i repeat will move around. Considering that you have only read half a sentence in all posts no point discussing with you, you would agree until you get updated. By the way are you the one that supports that expertise has no major effects on PVP or not?

[L-RANDLE]

Good to meet you but with your tank spec you will do nothing as such but anyway. The topic of what you read is about the distance/range to keep a melee class and in particular maras. The guy above supports that if you knockback a melee at over 10m distance is a bad thing while I would love it to knockthem back as far as possible and hence how our debate started and escalated into other things. So please read the thread and not one line sentence because you became offended about your class. I nvever said that the 120 is a good thing, on the contrary its a serious nerf as good sents i repeat will move around. Considering that you have only read half a sentence in all posts no point discussing with you, you would agree until you get updated. By the way are you the one that supports that expertise has no major effects on PVP or not?

 

Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? I played my Sage from launch to August. You are not "insulting" my class. I am Sage Lemont. I have a 1 mo. old tank alt..

 

Glad you looked me up in order to try to "make a point". If you want to debate expertise, I'm fine with that as well as I run around at 534 on my tank and do just fine. You probably would tell me to take off my BH/CAMP gear and put on recruit.... Nothing wrong with being able to add , but we can talk about that later...

 

See they got this little trick called instant email responses. I been on this thread for awhile and read it all, and quite a few well respected Sage/Sorcs are here as well. The ONLY point of contention is how "hard" it is to adapt and is it required for an already demanding class. If you think knocking them "farther back" when they are not even in melee range is relevant, you need to L2P. Most Sage/Sorc here agree that the range increase is irrelevant because using that as an offensive move is just dumb in most cases.

 

Here I will break it down for you:

Some say: "it not a 'bad' thing"

Some say: "it sucks"

Net value of change = ****tay

 

So quit trying to talk for the masses because you have no clue what you are talking about...

[Larry_Dallas]

 

If we are talking about a 1v1 situation in which you are forced to approach a Sorcerer from a distance, then the use of your leap/Pred/camo is a tactical decision you must make based on other factors. Your ideal opener as a Marauder is to engage an enemy who is already engaged in combat. Saving your gap closer for after the gap creator is what separates the good Marauders from the bad ones.

 

Well, yeah, but even if a DPS sorc is already engaged with another class, it's going to be 20-ish meters from the pile (and probably running away from it), and likely 20-ish meters from the marauder. Takes what, 5 or 6 seconds of contributing nothing to the warzone to close that distance without using any skill? more if he's kiting in the opposite direction of where you are? Better to leap (which briefly roots him and stops him from kiting the class he's fighting) and crippling slash than have him see you, use force slow, then go back to what he was doing (turning those 5 to 6 seconds into 15) because of a stubborn refusal to use leap.

 

Edit: there are classes against which leap is a terrible opener that will get you killed. DPS Vanguards are one (you're just begging him to get a railshot proc) and leaping any operative is either completely ineffective (if a healer) or suicide (if a DPS with a lot of his big-hitters available). But DPS sages and sorcs aren't one of the classes that punish you for leaping. Without using a gap closer every time the enemy's out of melee range--including at the beginning of the engagement--you're not going to kill them. Leap's the most-frequently available. Just need to use crippling slash just after leap, which will be easier to do now that they, somewhat ridiculously, have to spin, aim, fire off a knockback, spin back and kite.

 

If they were going to nerf the direction overload hits, I would have preferred it to only hit laterally than only hit forward, considering I keep pursuers left or right while strafing, not forward while (ugh) backpeddling.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[MusicRider]

Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? I played my Sage from launch to August. You are not "insulting" my class. I am Sage Lemont. I have a 1 mo. old tank alt..

 

Glad you looked me up in order to try to "make a point". If you want to debate expertise, I'm fine with that as well as I run around at 534 on my tank and do just fine. You probably would tell me to take off my BH/CAMP gear and put on recruit.... Nothing wrong with being able to add , but we can talk about that later...

 

See they got this little trick called instant email responses. I been on this thread for awhile and read it all, and quite a few well respected Sage/Sorcs are here as well. The ONLY point of contention is how "hard" it is to adapt and is it required for an already demanding class. If you think knocking them "farther back" when they are not even in melee range is relevant, you need to L2P. Most Sage/Sorc here agree that the range increase is irrelevant because using that as an offensive move is just dumb in most cases.

 

Here I will break it down for you:

Some say: "it not a 'bad' thing"

Some say: "it sucks"

Net value of change = ****tay

 

So quit trying to talk for the masses because you have no clue what you are talking about...

 

Dear Lemont, no I've never heard of you, are you on nightmanre lands. Now, a) I don't speak for the masses but for myself (but if you have been reading as you said then you wouldn't be saying fairytales. b) I don't mind the range of force wave as it is but if it increases then so be it, no harm done. c) I welcome the instant cast. d) I definitely don't like the 120 cone from the 360 (who would?). In a nutshell the only change that would be nice on force wave was to make it instant and nothing else.

 

Lastly, you say you are a WH and still haven't learned the value of expertise in PVP? This brings the end of our discussion and all future ones. I only wish you were imp and on my server, but as a sage that you are I'm glad you are where you are dude. Just to make your whole post (the one you link very proudly on your signbature) totally stupid. My dps sage casts deliverance for 3.4K (critical can hit even just over 6K). What was your number again? 2.5K? LOLOL. So basically you are a warhero noob, which only tells us one thing: learn to learn. No point replying as I won't bother with you again. I will only laugh at your pityful and pathetic deliverance. LOLOL WH Noob. That's a new one. LOLOLOL.

[Darth_Philar]

Dear Lemont, no I've never heard of you, are you on nightmanre lands. Now, a) I don't speak for the masses but for myself (but if you have been reading as you said then you wouldn't be saying fairytales. b) I don't mind the range of force wave as it is but if it increases then so be it, no harm done. c) I welcome the instant cast. d) I definitely don't like the 120 cone from the 360 (who would?). In a nutshell the only change that would be nice on force wave was to make it instant and nothing else.

 

You may want to get your facts up to date. Instant is out. They are now "reducing the delay", not making it instant.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=523625

Edited September 11, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[L-RANDLE]

Dear Lemont, no I've never heard of you, are you on nightmanre lands. Now, a) I don't speak for the masses but for myself (but if you have been reading as you said then you wouldn't be saying fairytales. b) I don't mind the range of force wave as it is but if it increases then so be it, no harm done. c) I welcome the instant cast. d) I definitely don't like the 120 cone from the 360 (who would?). In a nutshell the only change that would be nice on force wave was to make it instant and nothing else.

 

Lastly, you say you are a WH and still haven't learned the value of expertise in PVP? This brings the end of our discussion and all future ones. I only wish you were imp and on my server, but as a sage that you are I'm glad you are where you are dude. Just to make your whole post (the one you link very proudly on your signbature) totally stupid. My dps sage casts deliverance for 3.4K (critical can hit even just over 6K). What was your number again? 2.5K? LOLOL. So basically you are a warhero noob, which only tells us one thing: learn to learn. No point replying as I won't bother with you again. I will only laugh at your pityful and pathetic deliverance. LOLOL WH Noob. That's a new one. LOLOLOL.

 

Yeah you are Lamont... Don't let the fact that I was [Edit](Unagmented) BM/RAK gear get in the way of a good story though. Here is a simple question for you: When do you use force wave when against a marauder?

 

I guess you didn't take the time to look at the date either. I was in BM during the lottery. You didn't even start posting here until 1.3. So you are the "noob"..

Edited September 11, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[MusicRider]

Yeah you are Lamont...

 

Oh you have an identity crisis. You introduced yourself as warhero noob Lemont in your previous post. Remember. LOLOL. All neurons and synapses burnt out eh? LOLOLOL

[MusicRider]

Well, yeah, but even if a DPS sorc is already engaged with another class, it's going to be 20-ish meters from the pile (and probably running away from it), and likely 20-ish meters from the marauder. Takes what, 5 or 6 seconds of contributing nothing to the warzone to close that distance without using any skill? more if he's kiting in the opposite direction of where you are? Better to leap (which briefly roots him and stops him from kiting the class he's fighting) and crippling slash than have him see you, use force slow, then go back to what he was doing (turning those 5 to 6 seconds into 15) because of a stubborn refusal to use leap.

 

Edit: there are classes against which leap is a terrible opener that will get you killed. DPS Vanguards are one (you're just begging him to get a railshot proc) and leaping any operative is either completely ineffective (if a healer) or suicide (if a DPS with a lot of his big-hitters available). But DPS sages and sorcs aren't one of the classes that punish you for leaping. Without using a gap closer every time the enemy's out of melee range--including at the beginning of the engagement--you're not going to kill them. Leap's the most-frequently available. Just need to use crippling slash just after leap, which will be easier to do now that they, somewhat ridiculously, have to spin, aim, fire off a knockback, spin back and kite.

 

If they were going to nerf the direction overload hits, I would have preferred it to only hit laterally than only hit forward, considering I keep pursuers left or right while strafing, not forward while (ugh) backpeddling.

 

+1 on whole post (cripping slash or preferably rupture if with slow down skill for annihilation spec)

[L-RANDLE]

Oh you have an identity crisis. You introduced yourself as warhero noob Lemont in your previous post. Remember. LOLOL. All neurons and synapses burnt out eh? LOLOLOL

 

I was actually calling you Lamont, but maybe I should have added some punctuation to spell it out for you. So what is your answer to my question? When do you use FW against a marauder?

[Paulman]

I have a feel all of the sorc/sages left in the game are either really good or really crazy.

[DroidDreamer]

I have a feel all of the sorc/sages left in the game are either really good or really crazy.

 

I rolled my Sorc after the first two nerfs. I'm not one for FOTM classes/builds and I appreciate a good challenge. Thing is, it's *already* a challenge without the defensive nerfs and PvP is all I do.

[leto_cleon]

For those that want to see the animation, here's Overload.

 

And for those that can't get on the PTS... This is the sorcs new PvP move called, "Make 'em die laughing at you."

/wrist

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IISZHMctWw

[Givemedanger]

It was good the way it was. So why change it? Especially when ur a healer. And sorc healers are so squishy anyway. Melee dps pile up on you and what do you do now? I hate the change.

[Individual]

Now this change does not make any sense to me at all. Force Wave is a defensive ability to get melee classes off you. With the change, there's now a 240 degree gap in the defenses for those with light armour. This is really a huge nerf thats really not needed. By removing their counter against a zerg, the survivability of Consulars is severely reduced.

 

Force Wave works just fine in Voidstar and Civil War and an accidental knockback into the hut for Novare is not fatal since the node can be ranged capped. Where its not used is the goal line of huttball. The full bar of resolve is usually fatal. Predictability of a knockback seems to be more useful in huttball, but that's just 1 warzone out of 4.

 

Please reconsider this change.

 

I have to agree with the OP. Here is my reasoning behind it. Ranged classes have AOE knockbacks, and melee have aoe stuns. Why then is it fair for melee to continue to have the aoe stun vs a ranged to have an aoe knockback? Hell Juggs have a continuous AOE snare, which I think is the most annoying ability in the game. Why don't they do the same to those abilities?

Edited September 13, 2012 by Individual

[Paulman]

I have to agree with the OP. Here is my reasoning behind it. Ranged classes have AOE knockbacks, and melee have aoe stuns. Why then is it fair for melee to continue to have the aoe stun vs a ranged to have an aoe knockback? Hell Juggs have a continuous AOE snare, which I think is the most annoying ability in the game. Why don't they do the same to those abilities?

 

I think the change is intended to make the knockback better. Everyone is crying chicken little when they haven't even seen it in action yet or tried it out at all.

[warultima]

I think the change is intended to make the knockback better. Everyone is crying chicken little when they haven't even seen it in action yet or tried it out at all.

 

Its frontal 120 degree cone that reach out 15m. I have tested it and love it. The knockback on it is 8m from where the enemy is knocked back. e.g if enemy is15m away, overload -> 23m . 5m away overload->13m.

 

With little practice I think most will find it pretty useful... its no longer a real 360 degree oh **** button per say. Position yourself better it works fine.

[Ssfbistimg]

Its frontal 120 degree cone that reach out 15m. I have tested it and love it. The knockback on it is 8m from where the enemy is knocked back. e.g if enemy is15m away, overload -> 23m . 5m away overload->13m.

 

With little practice I think most will find it pretty useful... its no longer a real 360 degree oh **** button per say. Position yourself better it works fine.

 

yeah but in huttball and you have people hitting you from front, back side the knockback becomes useless. there was no reason to change the KB at all. it was fine as is. Didn't care that it wasn't instant. But what's done is done. Unless bioware/ea fixes force in balance healing when specced into psychic absorption, none of the new changes will mean anything to me anyways as I just wont re-sub. It's a shame they make these changes before fixing class mechanics that are broken.

[ahduth]

Its frontal 120 degree cone that reach out 15m. I have tested it and love it. The knockback on it is 8m from where the enemy is knocked back. e.g if enemy is15m away, overload -> 23m . 5m away overload->13m.

 

With little practice I think most will find it pretty useful... its no longer a real 360 degree oh **** button per say. Position yourself better it works fine.

 

Sweet, this is what I was hoping for. The old one I really only use while kiting in huttball (which I think was mentioned by someone else). I didn't like the "get out of trouble" aspect of it, as it involved nothing in the way of tactics. The new one sounds like it has all sorts of potential for mischief, on every single map.

[Darth_Philar]

Its frontal 120 degree cone that reach out 15m. I have tested it and love it. The knockback on it is 8m from where the enemy is knocked back. e.g if enemy is15m away, overload -> 23m . 5m away overload->13m.

 

With little practice I think most will find it pretty useful... its no longer a real 360 degree oh **** button per say. Position yourself better it works fine.

 

If what you posted is true, that the knockback effect has also been changed from 4m to 8m then it is going to be impossible to kite a single SW/JK going forward since you will always be pushing them out of melee range and into jump range, which allows them to simply immediately return to melee range.

 

And again, the increased range has no benefit for us against most melee, and only a marginal benefit for us against Pyro PTs. This is because the only meter marks that matter are 4, 10, and 30. We can already move players from under 4 to over 4 and from under 8 to over 10. The only way the range would be effective would be if we could move players from under 30 to over 30 at which point the knockback would be useful against ranged classes.

 

No matter how it is spun, Sorcerers have lost a crappy defensive ability as it is now a crappy utility move (i.e. knocking people off of ramps). Losing defensive abilities, regardless of how effective they were is a BAD thing since we are already the least survivable class in the game.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[mrekxxx]

Its frontal 120 degree cone that reach out 15m. I have tested it and love it. The knockback on it is 8m from where the enemy is knocked back. e.g if enemy is15m away, overload -> 23m . 5m away overload->13m.

 

With little practice I think most will find it pretty useful... its no longer a real 360 degree oh **** button per say. Position yourself better it works fine.

 

great news mate, now is overload garbage and useless ability

 

so i love this change

[Darth_Philar]

The only way I'd be ok with the radius nerf is if it was offset with either:

A. No Resolve gain for the affected targets.

B. A 7 second CD.

 

Without one of the two above, the ability is useless as a defensive tactic.

[MusicRider]

I have a feel all of the sorc/sages left in the game are either really good or really crazy.

 

Both .

[DroidDreamer]

Its frontal 120 degree cone that reach out 15m. I have tested it and love it. The knockback on it is 8m from where the enemy is knocked back. e.g if enemy is15m away, overload -> 23m . 5m away overload->13m.

 

With little practice I think most will find it pretty useful... its no longer a real 360 degree oh **** button per say. Position yourself better it works fine.

 

Well that is welcome news: that the knockback has been doubled. Earlier reports speculated that it might stay the same puny 4 meter knockback.

[UGLYMRJ]

Its frontal 120 degree cone that reach out 15m. I have tested it and love it. The knockback on it is 8m from where the enemy is knocked back. e.g if enemy is15m away, overload -> 23m . 5m away overload->13m.

 

With little practice I think most will find it pretty useful... its no longer a real 360 degree oh **** button per say. Position yourself better it works fine.

 

This is why I lol'd at all the QQ before people even tried it... it was clearly buffed and not nerfed.

 

Thanks for keeping some of them quiet. Your service to the community will not go unnoticed.

[Lexlo]

"Ehrmagehrd I haz to aim mah knockberk!!! Tooo much wehrk!!!!"

 

 

 

Try playing Guardian or Juggernaut and hitting force push, just to see the target fly in the complete opposite direction of where you're facing. *THEN* you'll have something to complain about.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Lexlo