Force Wave/Overload Change in 1.4 - An appeal to reconsider

[leto_cleon]

Alright, my geometry is rusty, but here it goes...

 

Current overload: circle with 8m radius. pie (we'll just say 3.14) * r squared = area

 

3.14 * (8*8) -> 3.14 * 64 = an area of 200.96 square meters

 

New overload: 120 degree 15m cone (1/3 of a circle)

 

[3.14 * (15 * 15) ] / 3 --> [3.14 * (225)] / 3 --> [706.5] / 3 = an area of 235.5 square meters

 

So, we actually have a larger AoE now. (by 34.9 square meters, for those of you keeping count)

 

Yes I've checked the math (using pi)

 

The 360 degree 8m Force Wave has a 201.1m sq effect

A 120 degree Force Wave has a 235.6m sq effect.

This would be an increase of 34.5 m sq

 

However, there is now 240 degrees that's not covered defensively anymore. This is 134.1 m sq.

 

Your new "blind spot" will only be a problem if you allow yourself to be surrounded,which will be easier to prevent with the greater range (and area of effect) of Overload and more opportunities to re position thanks to the new force speed. And if you DO let someone get behind you, just don't fire off your KB while you're facing away from them. Turn yourself a bit/ slow them first to give yourself some breathing room/ sprint away, turn and KB. Hell, stun them first if you really have to (you shouldn't, but w/e); might be worth it to get them into some fire or off a bridge.

 

Well try playing support and delaying the opposing team on a node. Lift, slow, stun, sever force and all sorts of harassing to prevent a cap, usually results in a death mark. No death mark, then no cap for them. With the death mark, the opposing term will go out of their way to bring you down.

 

 

Another addendum for cleon: if you're stunned, you're not using your KB, are you? When you do break, use the .5 seconds of delay we have now to face your attacker and use your shiny new instant KB. Plus, this'll work against ranged attackers in the new 15m sweet spot. If you use your break on slows/roots, well... you shouldn't, that's dumb. Besides, I'm pretty sure you can still turn while rooted. (I'll just enjoy my impair-breaking force speed)

As was echoed earlier using a kb on ranged classes is not much of a point. The only way I can see it being useful is knocking them out of LOS to the node. A CC break is used on full resolve. From how I see it, Consulars can be restunned at melee range faster than they can turn and knockback.

[Wainamoinen]

I suggest that the leap mechanic will be changed from simply targeting a player to an AOE circle on the ground ...

 

That's actually a pretty interesting idea.

 

Could switch one of the current leaps to a "land on reticule", like the huttball target.

 

Would make JK/SW stronger in the huttball though, if they don't even need a player to jump to. Hmm. Needs some thought.

[Phinub]

That's actually a pretty interesting idea.

 

Could switch one of the current leaps to a "land on reticule", like the huttball target.

 

Would make JK/SW stronger in the huttball though, if they don't even need a player to jump to. Hmm. Needs some thought.

 

I think what he means is that there actually has to be a player within the target area or nothing happens and it'll go on cooldown. Hence the higher skill requirement.

[Wainamoinen]

I think what he means is that there actually has to be a player within the target area or nothing happens and it'll go on cooldown. Hence the higher skill requirement.

 

Sounds good to me. Maybe put that on Zealous Strike, make the leap > push > leap trickier and more impressive.

[AboB]

Ha, using area is like the worst argument ever. So if the AOE for FW would be 1 meter wide and 240 meters long it would according to your logic be better? Or how about a...I dont know.....spiral shaped AOE? It could in theory be much bigger than 240m2 but have gaps in every rotation. Would that work? You know the current AOE marks, what if only the green parts would carry the effect? [/logic at it's finest]

 

OK. I know you're trying to make his argument sound ridiculous, and you did pretty well with 1mx240m FW that acts more like a force beam(force beam? Damn. Now I have to read some Dark Tower), but that Spiral shaped FW sounds like it would actually be pretty nifty. Pretty cool, actually. Oh well, just my two cents. I don't even have whatever class is being discussed here:o .

[Chemic_al]

I make these assumptions because your logic is fail. You act as if a sorc doesn't have a strafe button and is incapable of moving. I can turn faster than a character can strafe... Simple as that. It's an instant attack so there is NO reaction time against it. I can also position myself to where the majority of my attackers if not all will be in the cone. Granted, some players will be aware and manage to escape into the safe zone. But from my experience if ALREADY AIMING MY OVERLOAD... I see a huge benefit from the changes being made.

 

If you don't... Perhaps you should put yours on the shelf.

 

Your logic is fail too. The attack is not instantaneous, it will be affected by lag, client/server synch issues for one. The closer they are in proximity to you, the more chance they have of avoiding or you "missing" with overload.

 

Here's one to ponder for you if it's such a HUGE buff, why aren't mercs calling out for their KB to be changed this way? Hmm? Surely if this is such a big buff the mercs would be envious and be shouting for theirs to be changed. Funny thing is they aren't, and they aren't because it's a nerf.

 

And we are a RANGED DPS class, this and decrease in electrocute is just plain retarded.

[mrekxxx]

It is a joke to counter. Half the time, when the target is in front of you in the conal area, Overload will miss anyway due to lag in 1.4. Sorcerers have no defensive cooldown. None. Nerfing Overload like this is unacceptable as it is our only way to save ourselves. BW has failed again. You would think after failing for so many years, they would get it right once.

 

this is great joke dude ... sorcerers have no def cd... omg ...

 

L2P... def cds are : static barrier, force speed, new insta heal, overload, whirlwind and electrocute ...

 

so 6 CD ...

 

gl with learning the class

[mrekxxx]

I stopped reading here.... You're doing it wrong.

 

haha Ugly yeah u found great comment lol, i agree and laugh ...

 

i use overload maybe once per min or so... in 90% wz i top dmg charts and kite ppl... guys i like incoming changes ...

 

and sorcerer is not as harder to play as juggernaut or marauder, i play 3 toons and its simmilar skill... u can still be one of the best on evryclass, just look in wz and fight ... dont stay and move, i play 9 months everyday 8 hours and everytime i start in wz i start with this in my mind : i am not pro and i could learn something ... so respect and L2P i do it everyday ...

 

gl

[Darth_Philar]

this is great joke dude ... sorcerers have no def cd... omg ...

 

L2P... def cds are : static barrier, force speed, new insta heal, overload, whirlwind and electrocute ...

 

so 6 CD ...

 

gl with learning the class

 

Clearly not a Sorc.

 

Static Barrier is a HEAL that can be used on all players meaning it is not unique, therefore it is not a DCD.

Force Speed is a kiting tool, not a DCD.

Overload is a Knockback, not a DCD.

Whirlwind is a Mezz, not a DCD.

Electrocute is a Stun, not a DCD.

 

Do you even know what a DCD is?

[Sock_Bramson]

Sigh, alot of silly things to reply to, but I'll try to keep it condensed.

 

First off Larry, as to the 20/20/20 spec: you did notice where I said the *I* will enjoy the root breaking force speed, i.e. I'm thinking of my spec in particular. (I run the corruption/lit. hybrid)

 

Second, the new KB is not gonna suddenly make a good madness sorc lose against an anni mara. There's no reason you can't, you know, knockback the leap by slightly facing them. You're not going to do any damage to anyone with your back to them. So, while you are doing damage, you'll have even more reach on the KB. If you can take the time to figure out a worst case scenario screw up, take the time to figure out how to use your new tool in addition to all the other added goodies. (in madness' case, just the self heal and 20sec force speed, but the new force speed alone in a game changer)

 

How can you say that there won't be uses for KBing a ranged class? You can knock those bastards behind a pillar/ into a hazard from farther away now. (Just don't waste it on a sniper in cover, obviously) Besides, I'm not just talking about just ranged classes when I say the new range is beneficial to us. Like I've said, if you don't see the benefit of using a longer range KB to kite melee, there's no helping you.

 

Those of you worrying about lag, you do realize the current KB is effected by lag even more, right? Instant casts are much more forgiving.

 

Finally, please don't try to tell me about the trials and tribulations of kiting as a DPS. I'm a healer; I get focused MUCH more than you ever do. I don't whine about it, though, because I know how to cope. I kite my merry way around, tossing out shields and heals, slowing, stunning, KBing, and sprinting as I go, giving myself time to cast bigger heals. Sure, I might make a mistake and die, or run out of force and die, but by that time I've distracted most of their dps while my teammates do their thing. This is all much easier with another healer, obviously, but I can make it work on my own. When I saw the new KB, I knew that I'd have even more kiting options, options that I intend to use the hell out of.

[mrekxxx]

If you can get used to jump turning, I think Overload can still be very effective defensively. You can't jump turn with it now because the delay would cause you to travel in the air in the opposite direction. As an instant ability, though, it won't have this problem. If you don't like jump turning (even though it's a useful skill for other situations), you can always try to fake them out: act like you're running around a pillar, about face, run past, and turn around and blast them as they take the extra second to react.

 

As far as offensive/defensive uses go, it may prove to be a better defense precisely because you can use it more proactively. Plus, you can also use it more offensively to boot.

 

Really, the sorc changes have only 2 nerf-ish aspects: 1) cone KB, 2) shorter range stun. I've already said I don't think 2) is gonna be as bad as people think with all the positive changes, and the downside of 1) is offset by the increased range on Overload. Meanwhile, the buffs we are getting are gonna be pretty damn awesome. Speaking from my post-1.2 respecing experience alone, having force speed every 20 seconds by itself is downright Om Nom.

 

yeah awesome buffs...

 

yet one thing, is it in real electrocute nerf?

 

maybe no ... i use it 90% of my time when some1 focused me to make a distance ...

 

why ppl need to have 30m stun? answer is to fill resolve bar of the ball carrier, so this helps team i guess

 

and instead of using 30 m stuns ppl will deal dmg so this is forcing ppl to play better, deal more dmg instead useless stuns and results are garbage 150k dmg ...

 

so i think again great step from BW, and i play sorcerer yeah, everyday only pvp ...

[unixbomber]

Its gonna be like a group force push that juggys have ... SUPER FUN TIMES!!!

 

Indeed.

[NICKjnp]

I know I'm going to be told to "stop qq'ing". But I pay so I'mgoing to gripe all I want...so accept that paying customers will always be doing that.

 

1. Force wave/overload was used to get a group off of me, get an operative or assassin off of my back, and strategically placed for an aoe effect. This throw field (because that is what it is now) is not something I wanted nor is it something anyone asked for. They say it is for unintended hits as well....then the better nerf death from above (or any aoe power) because it is aoe and it might hit a target that people did not intend.

 

2. Electrocute/force stun was used strategically as well. I would use it on people capping/planting and over fire traps. Again it still fills resolve the same as before but now you have to run into melee kill range to use it.

 

This hurts a madness/balance build by removing one of the 30 m stuns. So now there is only lift/whirlwind. It hurt lightning/telekinetic builds by removing one of the two kb's it has for escape if it gets swarmed.

 

And I have a lvl 50 corruption sorc, lvl 50 balance sage, and am working on a telekinetic sage (which is easier that people make it out to be). If this update happens...I'll probably ditch them and go with a powertech instead since Bioware seems intent on nerfing weak classes and ignoring overpowered ones.

 

And yes...I QQ. I also pay pay so telling me to stop whining isn't going to do anything.

[Sock_Bramson]

Nick:

 

1) They did nerf DFA's aoe, actually. As far as your concerns, you say that you already strategically position your Overload; keep doing that with the new one and you'll be fine. A swarm of dps headed your way is pretty easy to spot, imo. Now, we have to wait for them to get within 8m of us. With the change, we can knock the swarm away even earlier. You can't use Overload now to stop stealthers from opening on you (unless you're psychic). There are other ways to get people off your butt besides force-farting on them.

 

2) considering the buffs you get (I consider the new KB to be a buff, but we'll just factor in the free heal and 20sec force sprint for now), the electrocute change should be very manageable. You still have long range cap stoppers, and extra force sprints will get you within 10m of someone to trap them in the fire. (besides, you should've already slowed them)

 

This isn't a l2p issue yet, because there is nothing new for us to play with atm. Instead, learn to consider the benefits and new uses of the proposed KB along with the other changes. Even looking at the KB in a vacuum, though, I'm still seeing it as a positive change. If nobody can conceptualize Overload's new uses themselves, I'll jot some down for you later. Right now, though, I need to get some lunch before I go back to work.

[L-RANDLE]

Sigh, alot of silly things to reply to, but I'll try to keep it condensed.

 

First off Larry, as to the 20/20/20 spec: you did notice where I said the *I* will enjoy the root breaking force speed, i.e. I'm thinking of my spec in particular. (I run the corruption/lit. hybrid)

 

Second, the new KB is not gonna suddenly make a good madness sorc lose against an anni mara. There's no reason you can't, you know, knockback the leap by slightly facing them. You're not going to do any damage to anyone with your back to them. So, while you are doing damage, you'll have even more reach on the KB. If you can take the time to figure out a worst case scenario screw up, take the time to figure out how to use your new tool in addition to all the other added goodies. (in madness' case, just the self heal and 20sec force speed, but the new force speed alone in a game changer)

 

How can you say that there won't be uses for KBing a ranged class? You can knock those bastards behind a pillar/ into a hazard from farther away now. (Just don't waste it on a sniper in cover, obviously) Besides, I'm not just talking about just ranged classes when I say the new range is beneficial to us. Like I've said, if you don't see the benefit of using a longer range KB to kite melee, there's no helping you.

 

Those of you worrying about lag, you do realize the current KB is effected by lag even more, right? Instant casts are much more forgiving.

 

Finally, please don't try to tell me about the trials and tribulations of kiting as a DPS. I'm a healer; I get focused MUCH more than you ever do. I don't whine about it, though, because I know how to cope. I kite my merry way around, tossing out shields and heals, slowing, stunning, KBing, and sprinting as I go, giving myself time to cast bigger heals. Sure, I might make a mistake and die, or run out of force and die, but by that time I've distracted most of their dps while my teammates do their thing. This is all much easier with another healer, obviously, but I can make it work on my own. When I saw the new KB, I knew that I'd have even more kiting options, options that I intend to use the hell out of.

 

The fact that you are a healer, makes your observations one-sided. You have the ability regain lost HP at a much higher rate than any other spec. It's great for you because you do get focused, but bad for the class as a whole because we ALL get focused because we are squishy as hell and seen as easy kills. Basically we are pigeon-holed into using your spec to even be viable, especially with the potential for stunlock due to the proposed change in resolve. The main basis of our defense is to run away, which also means we could actually lose/not gain an objective because we are more worried about preservation. These changes don't affect that. We are Children of Zion, every other class is effectively an Agent. Why didn't I take the shadow pill?

 

But back to the topic at hand. For any other spec, the cone will limit our already suspect escapability, but my main issue is that the most of the Sage/Sorc community had NO ISSUES WITH FORCE WAVE! You eluded to it yourself.

Sure, I might make a mistake and die, or run out of force and die

These are the issues BW should be looking at, Force Management, Skill Cap, Burst Damage, Survivability. I am going out on a limb here and saying changing FW/OL was never even a concern for the Sage/Sorc community, but they change it. It's the main contributor to why people are pissed...

[Entropicus]

In that case, let's make leap more skilled too. I suggest that the leap mechanic will be changed from simply targeting a player to an AOE circle on the ground and unless the player you intend on leaping to is in the aoe when you click the launch button you will miss. Your mouse movement is obviously faster than in-game player movement so this shouldnt be a problem. I have on good authority that skilled players arent affected by latency. The aoe circle will be 3 meters in diameter. Should we make it smaller? Now that I think about it, 3 meters is too much for your skill, let's make it 1 meter.

 

While I like the idea of it, the last thing they need is to be able to Micheal Jordan onto a higher ramp. It would be going in a GW2 direction with combat.

[Hairyzac]

Nick:

 

1) They did nerf DFA's aoe, actually. As far as your concerns, you say that you already strategically position your Overload; keep doing that with the new one and you'll be fine. A swarm of dps headed your way is pretty easy to spot, imo. Now, we have to wait for them to get within 8m of us. With the change, we can knock the swarm away even earlier. You can't use Overload now to stop stealthers from opening on you (unless you're psychic). There are other ways to get people off your butt besides force-farting on them.

 

2) considering the buffs you get (I consider the new KB to be a buff, but we'll just factor in the free heal and 20sec force sprint for now), the electrocute change should be very manageable. You still have long range cap stoppers, and extra force sprints will get you within 10m of someone to trap them in the fire. (besides, you should've already slowed them)

 

This isn't a l2p issue yet, because there is nothing new for us to play with atm. Instead, learn to consider the benefits and new uses of the proposed KB along with the other changes. Even looking at the KB in a vacuum, though, I'm still seeing it as a positive change. If nobody can conceptualize Overload's new uses themselves, I'll jot some down for you later. Right now, though, I need to get some lunch before I go back to work.

 

It isn't the swarm of dps headed your way that he is talking about. It is the swarm of dps already eating through your HP that you need to knock off you at that moment, without needing to turn around and position yourself which won't always be possible. Once you use Overload, that is IT. You have nothing to save yourself from the swarm of 3-6 attackers after you blow Overload. Now imagine it missing 80% of the time cause of insane server lag, it being conal and it only being 120% area. This is a huge nerf and a mistake just like when they nerfed the Resurgence talent and now our main heal is a 2.5 second cast talented. The longest heal in the game and it cannot be cast against competent players due to its lengthy cast time.

[mrekxxx]

Clearly not a Sorc.

 

Static Barrier is a HEAL that can be used on all players meaning it is not unique, therefore it is not a DCD.

Force Speed is a kiting tool, not a DCD.

Overload is a Knockback, not a DCD.

Whirlwind is a Mezz, not a DCD.

Electrocute is a Stun, not a DCD.

 

Do you even know what a DCD is?

 

 

dude u are wrong, u dont understand what means sorcerer ...

and i play about dps now, i dont heal, DCD means for every class something else ... thats why u still think sorcerer has no DCD ... defence is escape from combat or prolong death or stop attacker or gain position advantage ...

 

like in real combat...

 

so everythin what gives u some advantage and dont improve your dps could be defense ,..

 

for example mara/jugg force charge, yeah it generates rage and i use it to attack ppl, but its also great defence utility to escape combat ...

 

every class has some unique escape and defence mechanics, so dont want to have as sorcerer some ability like absorb 40% dmg for 10 secs ... thats for other classes ... btw i forgot one ability ...extrication ... its defence cd

why? just pull some1 and when he pop on near u make sure u will not run back and start attack your killers ...

 

this is all about internet theoretics who pull in WZ 1/2 dmg than is TOP dmg ...

 

just L2P i do it everyday, i learn, read, play and speak with ppl in guild or server who are the best and u could be also once one of the best or atleast good player ...

 

gl

[Darth_Philar]

dude u are wrong, u dont understand what means sorcerer ...

and i play about dps now, i dont heal, DCD means for every class something else ... thats why u still think sorcerer has no DCD ... defence is escape from combat or prolong death or stop attacker or gain position advantage ...

 

like in real combat...

 

so everythin what gives u some advantage and dont improve your dps could be defense ,..

 

for example mara/jugg force charge, yeah it generates rage and i use it to attack ppl, but its also great defence utility to escape combat ...

 

every class has some unique escape and defence mechanics, so dont want to have as sorcerer some ability like absorb 40% dmg for 10 secs ... thats for other classes ... btw i forgot one ability ...extrication ... its defence cd

why? just pull some1 and when he pop on near u make sure u will not run back and start attack your killers ...

 

this is all about internet theoretics who pull in WZ 1/2 dmg than is TOP dmg ...

 

just L2P i do it everyday, i learn, read, play and speak with ppl in guild or server who are the best and u could be also once one of the best or atleast good player ...

 

gl

 

Incorrect.

Try again.

[L-RANDLE]

dude u are wrong, u dont understand what means sorcerer ...

and i play about dps now, i dont heal, DCD means for every class something else ... thats why u still think sorcerer has no DCD ... defence is escape from combat or prolong death or stop attacker or gain position advantage ...

 

like in real combat...

 

so everythin what gives u some advantage and dont improve your dps could be defense ,..

 

for example mara/jugg force charge, yeah it generates rage and i use it to attack ppl, but its also great defence utility to escape combat ...

 

every class has some unique escape and defence mechanics, so dont want to have as sorcerer some ability like absorb 40% dmg for 10 secs ... thats for other classes ... btw i forgot one ability ...extrication ... its defence cd

why? just pull some1 and when he pop on near u make sure u will not run back and start attack your killers ...

 

this is all about internet theoretics who pull in WZ 1/2 dmg than is TOP dmg ...

 

just L2P i do it everyday, i learn, read, play and speak with ppl in guild or server who are the best and u could be also once one of the best or atleast good player ...

 

gl

Stop saying L2P, it is not a L2P issue dude. Its the fact that they have now limited the radius of control and increased positioning needs for a class that depends HEAVILY on control and positioning, just to survive in a WZ. We already have enough on our tables, but now we have to adapt to something that was not really an issue anyway? Does that make sense to you?

 

Just out of curiosity, what is your Sage/Sorc valor rank?

Edited September 7, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Larry_Dallas]

Sigh, alot of silly things to reply to, but I'll try to keep it condensed.

 

First off Larry, as to the 20/20/20 spec: you did notice where I said the *I* will enjoy the root breaking force speed, i.e. I'm thinking of my spec in particular. (I run the corruption/lit. hybrid)

 

Second, the new KB is not gonna suddenly make a good madness sorc lose against an anni mara. There's no reason you can't, you know, knockback the leap by slightly facing them. You're not going to do any damage to anyone with your back to them.

 

In full war hero, unless you can spin to a particular point and fire off a keybinding during the animation, that is exactly what will happen. And there's such a low margin for error on that manoeuvre that it isn't going to happen consistently. And more realistically, you will be attacked from the side, which still presents the same problem. with lag, with server/client desynch, we now need to recognize we're being lept at, aim something and fire it off in 1/4 of a second or it sets in motion an inexorable chain of events that kills us 15 seconds later.

 

Yesterday I ran over a fire pit at the top of huttball. Got to the top of the slope and was sucked back into the fire-pit to see a jugg flying through the air in my direction. Triggered overload and stunbreak at the same time and got out of it -barely. Had I not been able to react so fast, he would have gotten one more GCD, in which he would have forcechoked or chilling screamed and I would have been burnt to a crisp. You expect me to expect to be sucked back 10 feet, think to spin to a particular direction and knock him back before he lands, stunbreak, spin again and continue before the firepit ignites?

 

 

So, while you are doing damage, you'll have even more reach on the KB.

 

Overload is a tool used by kiting sorcs to prevent melee from being at 4m. If a melee is at 15 feet there is no reason to knock him to 22. No advantage is conferred by doing this. Leap works just as well at 22 as it does at 15. And annihilate or smash miss just as much at 15 meters as they do at 22. The ranges we are concerned with are 4 and 10. If any melee is outside 10, whether they're at 11m or 30, there is no reason to spend a range creator, since we will grossly outdamage them from that spread...by the exact same rate.

 

And all that self-heal does is wipe out the damage from one rupture. It doesn't cleanse the slow. So we're back to using range-creators at a 2-1 ratio as an anni mara using range-closers. We'll die if we do that.

 

 

If you can take the time to figure out a worst case scenario screw up, take the time to figure out how to use your new tool in addition to all the other added goodies. (in madness' case, just the self heal and 20sec force speed, but the new force speed alone in a game changer)

 

That's not a worst-case scenario. It's a common one. Warzones are absolutely lousy with sorc hunting anni marauders. They don't focus healers, by the way. They're not efffective against operatives healers at all, so they generally get sick of being stunned and not denting his health and give up. They focus sorcs.

 

 

How can you say that there won't be uses for KBing a ranged class? You can knock those bastards behind a pillar/ into a hazard from farther away now. (Just don't waste it on a sniper in cover, obviously) Besides, I'm not just talking about just ranged classes when I say the new range is beneficial to us. Like I've said, if you don't see the benefit of using a longer range KB to kite melee, there's no helping you.

 

You don't understand how DPS play. That overload can hit a melee at 11 feet is irrelevant. They can't hurt us from there until they leap. And melee can leap just as well at 11m as they can at 18, apart from the fact that if we knock them back to 18 before they leap, we have one less way to get them out of 4 when they do.

 

And you're going to have to clarify why, exactly, you think that overload will now phase ranged classes through pillars, because I don't see that in the notes. But, as you've already been told by me and others, there is no reason to knockback a ranged enemy as this does not reduce his damage output, increase our own, increase his damage taken or reduce our own. These are the things DPS sorcs are concerned with. That's the class. Manipulate range and terrain (not time) until you've got an advantage.

 

And no, that one warzone has a bunch of environmental traps doesn't justify greatly reducing the usefulness of a key range-creator, one we use all the time, so we can chase gimmick kills in a warzone in which killing enemies is frequently counterproductive. I've won huttball matches with 5 kills total on the entire team.

 

 

Finally, please don't try to tell me about the trials and tribulations of kiting as a DPS. I'm a healer; I get focused MUCH more than you ever do. I don't whine about it, though, because I know how to cope. I kite my merry way around, tossing out shields and heals, slowing, stunning, KBing, and sprinting as I go, giving myself time to cast bigger heals. Sure, I might make a mistake and die, or run out of force and die, but by that time I've distracted most of their dps while my teammates do their thing. This is all much easier with another healer, obviously, but I can make it work on my own. When I saw the new KB, I knew that I'd have even more kiting options, options that I intend to use the hell out of.

 

You don't understand how DPs play the class. Healers try to create enough time to undo damage. DPS need to create distance to unbalance damage trading.

 

And, as has been mentioned, DPS sorcs do NOT get attacked less than healers. I play an op healer in warzones more than I play a madness sorc. I get focused and chased around LESS on the op healer, despite being marked.

[Sock_Bramson]

I'm not just thinking of it from a healer's perspective. For madness sorcs now, Overload by itself is not going to save your bacon if you're already surrounded. If your hp is getting eaten that fast, you're in a bad position, and the second or two the KB provides you will not solve your problem. (especially since even pure melees get a ranged attack or two)

 

Being able to use the KB from farther away will end up buying you even more time. The extra 7m out + creeping terror + 20sec force speed will make a huge difference. Also, think of how wide an area you're hitting at 15m. You'll be able to break up the impending swarm unless they're spread waayyyy too thin, which would help your team pick them off even easier. If you don't have a team to rely on right now, the current Overload will not make up for it anymore than the new one will. If you do have a good team, the new Overload will help them help you even more. This is because YOU can now take the initiative in defending yourself with it, instead of waiting to react to a looming fuster cluck.

 

The offensive/support uses shouldn't be ignored either; after all, this is a team game. It's already a good idea to use Overload to keep multiple enemies off of objectives / teammates, even though you put yourself in harms way doing so. (hopefully, your team will be standing by to support you in turn, as they should) With the change, you'll be able to support a greater area with less risk.

 

Oh, and as much as I miss the old force bending, that ish did need to be changed. I used to be able to will people back to life with 2 quick big heals. DI is nowhere close to useless now, though. You count on Innervate, DH, Resurge, and Bubble when things get hairy. (especially Bubble+Resurge+Innervate) With a well timed slow/sprint/KB/stun/ combo thereof, you set yourself up for Resurge + Recklessness as you LoS + 1-2 big ol' DI crits. (2 heal me for around 60-65% of my health). If your team is doing a good job distracting/peeling/locking peeps down, you can throw your big crits on them. (if they're 30% or below, though, the quicker heals are a better choice) DI also makes a great, force efficient top-off when you clear a hot-spot and need to move to the next.

 

TL;DR version: think of ways to adapt, and you will. If you assume there's no hope, well, then there probably isn't any for you.

 

edit: as for "phasing through pillars": no need, KB past pillar, strafe, LoS broken, rejoice!

Edited September 7, 2012 by Sock_Bramson

[MidichIorian]

The difference between a dps and healer is that the healer only has to run away and has better self-healing abilties. Add to this that even in pugs they'll have more support as they run. A dps is supposed to fight while kiting, it's their job, and can't just run and hide. How high on the priority list do you think it is to help a dps sorc? Edited September 7, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Sock_Bramson]

Mid:

I help out our dps sorcs all the time, as do our peelers. My heals are for everyone, and my pull has uses besides huttball.

[L-RANDLE]

 

 

 

*The ranges we are concerned with are 4 and 10. If any melee is outside 10, whether they're at 11m or 30, there is no reason to spend a range creator.

 

 

*They focus sorcs.

 

 

*And melee can leap just as well at 11m as they can at 18, apart from the fact that if we knock them back to 18 before they leap, we have one less way to get them out of 4 when they do.

 

 

*You don't understand how DPs play the class. Healers try to create enough time to undo damage. DPS need to create distance to unbalance damage trading.

 

*And, as has been mentioned, DPS sorcs do NOT get attacked less than healers.

 

Nail on head my friend, but just to add to the bold statement: "conversely, when one or more melee is within 4m, it is vital to KB ALL in that range and hope to escape to a safer distance. This change limits our ability to do that" It doesn't matter if I have to aim or not, we will miss people that in the same scenario we don't miss currently. They are taking away global control, to add more "skilled"/"precise" control, for a class that already has a higher skill cap than most other classes."

Edited September 7, 2012 by L-RANDLE