This game could learn from SWG

[opriv]

I also have to categorically reject the notion that SWG is not greater than SWTOR. I think the verdict is yet to be out. This comes down to sandbox vs themepark.

 

We could very easily assume that 700k players have tried the themepark and rejected it as a long term entertainment experience.

 

We can on the other hand say that the sandbox model held hundreds of thousands of players subscribed for multiple years.

 

Again, SWTOR has yet to prove its mustard. EA is not the best company to give it that chance...

[DenitharPurloin]

I enjoyed SWG for what it was. When I stopped appreciating it, I stopped playing. The memories are good.

 

That was then and this is now. I agree this game could use some "downtime entertainment", but I would draw the line at re-creating SWG.

 

IMHO, this game went "wrong" when they tried to market it as "An MMO, but..but..is also a single player game". It was the fatal flaw that made them try to please too many different groups of people (and failing each of those groups in some major way) instead of catering to those that enjoy the game that they chose to develop (whatever ONE direction they may have chose to go in).

 

You can't please all of the people, all of the time. This game is physical proof of that theory.

[Ashivauto]

It always makes me lol when people talk about the failure of swg. What is the definition of failure?

 

1 million boxed copies sold? (Not included digital downloads)

250k subs at the release making it the 2 largest mmo of that time?

Peaking at 400k subs then hovering at an average for 2012 mmos of 250k?

Dropping to 150-175k subs after nge still making $2.5 million a month?

Lasting 8 years with a subscription only model?

Closing the game to make room for the new sw game?

 

The game was profitable even after the nge... Most mmos average around 200-300k subs...

Financially the game was a business success... $2.5 mil a month is nothing to snark at...

 

Point being is failure is a harsh way to describe swg...

 

And as someone else posted, this thread isnt about sub numbers, or making swtor into swg 2. It simply is stating that there were some really innovative and great features to swg that would make swtor a awesome game, and retain more players.... As of right now swtor is nothing more than a single player game with co op mode and a map pack that costs $15 a month for..... I trully hope this game will add some features that keep players here, and adding a wz a op or fp and 5 more levels wont do it.... Im still here hoping though

[ImperialSun]

I would pay 40$ for Pre-CU

 

Give the SWG EMU a try in that case...I did and it's great!!

 

Is completely free and emulates Pre CU (about pub 14 I think)....perfect for when I need something other than SWTOR to play. I'm having a blast and it brings back sooooo many great memories.

 

But yes if BW were to add some of the well documented sandbox features from SWG I would have no problem dropping a lifetime sub on SWTOR...

 

Driz

[ImperialSun]

It always makes me lol when people talk about the failure of swg. What is the definition of failure?

 

1 million boxed copies sold? (Not included digital downloads)

250k subs at the release making it the 2 largest mmo of that time?

Peaking at 400k subs then hovering at an average for 2012 mmos of 250k?

Dropping to 150-175k subs after nge still making $2.5 million a month?

Lasting 8 years with a subscription only model?

Closing the game to make room for the new sw game?

 

The game was profitable even after the nge... Most mmos average around 200-300k subs...

Financially the game was a business success... $2.5 mil a month is nothing to snark at...

 

Point being is failure is a harsh way to describe swg...

 

And as someone else posted, this thread isnt about sub numbers, or making swtor into swg 2. It simply is stating that there were some really innovative and great features to swg that would make swtor a awesome game, and retain more players.... As of right now swtor is nothing more than a single player game with co op mode and a map pack that costs $15 a month for..... I trully hope this game will add some features that keep players here, and adding a wz a op or fp and 5 more levels wont do it.... Im still here hoping though

 

This ^^...all of it.

 

People who hate on SWG and talk about it as a failure either never played it or are just being hipster and jumping on the bandwagon....the game was a great success by definition and was light years ahead of its time (pun intended lol)...

 

Driz

Edited September 3, 2012 by ImperialSun

[Moaky]

It always makes me lol when people talk about the failure of swg. What is the definition of failure?

 

1 million boxed copies sold? (Not included digital downloads)

250k subs at the release making it the 2 largest mmo of that time?

Peaking at 400k subs then hovering at an average for 2012 mmos of 250k?

Dropping to 150-175k subs after nge still making $2.5 million a month?

Lasting 8 years with a subscription only model?

Closing the game to make room for the new sw game?

 

The game was profitable even after the nge... Most mmos average around 200-300k subs...

Financially the game was a business success... $2.5 mil a month is nothing to snark at...

 

Point being is failure is a harsh way to describe swg...

 

And as someone else posted, this thread isnt about sub numbers, or making swtor into swg 2. It simply is stating that there were some really innovative and great features to swg that would make swtor a awesome game, and retain more players.... As of right now swtor is nothing more than a single player game with co op mode and a map pack that costs $15 a month for..... I trully hope this game will add some features that keep players here, and adding a wz a op or fp and 5 more levels wont do it.... Im still here hoping though

 

 

Are you people not listening?

 

 

SWG never had 500k....it never had 400k....it started a notch above 300k, and went south from there. Had it at any point overtaken EQ, you would of heard about it. EQ was top dog from several months after launch until the time WoW shot past it.

 

 

SWG for its day and age cost huge money ala TOR. What TOR doesnt have is a SOE all access pass to prop it up. SWG hung around many yrs, even though other companies would of went ahead and sunset it.

 

 

At 2.4M copies of TOR sold, that is as many boxes as SWG pretty much moved during its entire existence. Sandbox MMOs appeal to a niche crowd, and it would be the dumbest mistake possible to turn this into another roleplay stage ala SWG. There is no place in this game for user created buildings, nor is PVP ever going to be the focus.

 

 

You wanna talk about adding Pazaak, more space content, or swoop racing, then you will find themeparkers going along with ya. When you wanna make Owen central to the game, or PVP mandatory, you are in the far minority, and it isnt going to happen.

 

 

What you guys keep running on about is no different than the NGE in SWG....you are looking to change the core design of game. I keep expecting it finally to get thru folks heads, and for some reason we still are seeing these type posts which are totally oblivious to reality.

[Tiek]

the only things i miss are JTL and the original skill point system.

 

other than that, they can leave swg buried.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Tiek

[robotkar]

I mean... this game is much more polished... I enjoy the combat system more and such... but Im not having as much fun as I was having when playing Star Wars Galaxies... And Ive talked to several people about it and in serious discussion all tend to say SWG > SWTOR. In conclusion why dont the Devs take the opportunity and learn from such games instead of implementing own innovative ( often sucky ) mechanics.

 

Pvp is no fun , leveling alts is no fun , exploration no fun , ops no fun after 4th or 5th run.... Only reason I play this still is cause Im a star wars fan and this is the only star wars mmo.

 

PS : So generally i was a total noob back then in swg , i didnt have good gear but still managed to have way more fun than what im getting from this game :(:(:(:(:(:(

 

SWTOR could gain much by implementing some features that SWG had

 

 

 

 

My friend summons it up perfectly

 

SWG was for grown ups. SWTOR is for kids. SWTOR has more sale potential, and this is only what matters unfortunately

 

but i like your post nevertheless

 

Marsellus Wallace

PRE-9, Dark Side Force Adept

[ImperialSun]

Are you people not listening?

 

 

SWG never had 500k....it never had 400k....it started a notch above 300k, and went south from there. Had it at any point overtaken EQ, you would of heard about it. EQ was top dog from several months after launch until the time WoW shot past it.

 

 

SWG for its day and age cost huge money ala TOR. What TOR doesnt have is a SOE all access pass to prop it up. SWG hung around many yrs, even though other companies would of went ahead and sunset it.

 

 

At 2.4M copies of TOR sold, that is as many boxes as SWG pretty much moved during its entire existence. Sandbox MMOs appeal to a niche crowd, and it would be the dumbest mistake possible to turn this into another roleplay stage ala SWG. There is no place in this game for user created buildings, nor is PVP ever going to be the focus.

 

 

You wanna talk about adding Pazaak, more space content, or swoop racing, then you will find themeparkers going along with ya. When you wanna make Owen central to the game, or PVP mandatory, you are in the far minority, and it isnt going to happen.

 

 

What you guys keep running on about is no different than the NGE in SWG....you are looking to change the core design of game. I keep expecting it finally to get thru folks heads, and for some reason we still are seeing these type posts which are totally oblivious to reality.

 

And what your appraisal conveniently forgets is that for the time, SWG was probably the second biggest MMO around, until WoW gained a foothold about 1 year after it launched. No, SWG never eclipsed EQ which was THE mainstream MMORPG of the day.

 

Howewver, the numbers that SWG did achieve were very acceptable for the time as no MMORPG at the time had more than about 400-500k subs...it just did not happen until WoW gained a foothold as I said.

 

So to recap...SWG maintained a profitable number of subs throught its lifetime, was imo the most deep and complex and expansive freeform/sandbox MMORPG seen to date, the game lasted almost eight years and would still be live today had it not have been for the exclusivity agreement that BW had when making SWTOR....

 

Oh yes, a real failure.

 

I can tell you dislike the game and may have had a bad experience with it, maybe it was just not your cup of tea. However that does not mean your opinion is fact in any sense. Its also interesting that here in 2012 a lot of gamers are crying out for the functionality and depth found in SWG to be added in to TOR....that speaks volumes.

 

At it's peak SWG was the perfect blend of Themepark and sandbox and the fact is, SWTOR would benefit enormously if some of those sandbox features made their way in to the game....a shameless rip off of JTLS would also help wonders in this game imo.

 

Driz

Edited September 3, 2012 by ImperialSun

[bahdasz]

Let's face it... If SWG wasn't run by a bunch of friggin' ******* that destroyed their own game... twice... there wouldn't have even been a need to develop SWTOR to replace it.

 

This game should learn from SWG....

- Listen to your customers, give them what they want

- Focus on added content and improving what you already have.... NOT re-inventing the whole game (twice)

- Use your heads, this isn't a console game where we play for a week or two until we reach the end and then quit and move on.... at least it's not suppsosed to be, is it? Stop treating it like one.

- Don't be afraid to ask... SOE didn't ask, they assumed. The combat was a little out of balance, instead of asking the community for suggestions, they just assumed everyone wanted the CU. Then someone just assumed everyone would like the NGE. They committed MMO suicide twice in two years and I put up with it because it was Star Wars and I just loved it. But, I don't have nearly as much time and enregy invested in this game, and my heart surely isn't (and never will be) in it like it was with SWG. They get one shot here, if they don't start improving the game or if they pull some B S like SOE did, I hope everyone walks.

Edited September 3, 2012 by bahdasz

[MajikMyst]

This ^^...all of it.

 

People who hate on SWG and talk about it as a failure either never played it or are just being hipster and jumping on the bandwagon....the game was a great success by definition and was light years ahead of its time (pun intended lol)...

 

Driz

 

It isn't that we hate SWG.. We hate the false information that people attempt to pass on to support their views.. If you can't make a point on it's own merit then you have no point to make..

 

People talk like SWG was this awsome game.. When it was a complete failure by almost any standard.. Sure.. I will give you that it wasn't all bad.. But was it good enough to improve this game?? Maybe on some small level..

 

The problem is that, the features that some people want from SWG aren't wanted by others..

 

I do not want player housing and do not think that development resources should be used to add them..

 

Player bounty was discussed in the beta and some serious hurdles couldn't be solved.. So they weren't added.. Now despite the ranting and raving from others.. This is a simple fact and the truth of the matter..

 

Chat bubbles are absolutely pointless.. But they are already in the game.. Just turned off.. So turning them back on wouldn't be much of an issue.. They were in the beta and were a huge resource drain.. Don't know if this was fixed.. But that is why they are turned off.. All I ask for is a switch to turn them off for me when people are allowed to use them again.. I don't like them and don't want them on my screen at all..

 

People call for sandbox elements.. What exactly does this mean?? To you?? If you can't be specific then you really aren't worth responding to..

 

Decorating our ship?? Why?? Haven't we out grown 'Barbie's Playhouse'?? I have no desire to hang curtains or other such things..

 

The issue that many of you need to come to terms with.. While you may want some of these things.. Other players do not.. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..

 

My opinion is that it would be shakey ground for Bioware to add some of the features from SWG.. SWG was by no means a success.. Bioware doesn't want to kill the subs it has, and the unpopularity of SWG needs to be treaded lightly.. Despite what pro SWG people may say.. That is the facts of the situation..

 

Basically what Bioware can learn from SWG is what not to do.. Especially if it wants to have more than 300k subs..

[aeterno]

There are a lot of games TOR could and should learn from.

 

Some dynamic events ala rift or gw2 to brake up the monotony of fetch quests.

 

Some battlegrounds/wvw action to bring pvp into this decade

 

Some phasing/mirroring ala WoW to make players feel they have a bit of impact on the world. I cant describe how epic this upcoming event in WoW is, you do a chain and the zone changes for you. In TOR I liberate belsavis! Except not a single thing changes, not even temporarily. Not one banner get swapped, nada. Christ LOTRO has you burn down the first village for petes sake.

 

All in all bioware, NEEDS to shamelessly steal stuff from other MMOs. But from SWG? Yea, that a wee bit down on my "must have" list.

Edited September 3, 2012 by aeterno

[ImperialSun]

Are you people not listening?

 

 

SWG never had 500k....it never had 400k....it started a notch above 300k, and went south from there. Had it at any point overtaken EQ, you would of heard about it. EQ was top dog from several months after launch until the time WoW shot past it.

 

 

SWG for its day and age cost huge money ala TOR. What TOR doesnt have is a SOE all access pass to prop it up. SWG hung around many yrs, even though other companies would of went ahead and sunset it.

 

 

At 2.4M copies of TOR sold, that is as many boxes as SWG pretty much moved during its entire existence. Sandbox MMOs appeal to a niche crowd, and it would be the dumbest mistake possible to turn this into another roleplay stage ala SWG. There is no place in this game for user created buildings, nor is PVP ever going to be the focus.

 

 

You wanna talk about adding Pazaak, more space content, or swoop racing, then you will find themeparkers going along with ya. When you wanna make Owen central to the game, or PVP mandatory, you are in the far minority, and it isnt going to happen.

 

 

What you guys keep running on about is no different than the NGE in SWG....you are looking to change the core design of game. I keep expecting it finally to get thru folks heads, and for some reason we still are seeing these type posts which are totally oblivious to reality.

 

Also I think you are the one oblivious to reality...this thread is called "This game could learn from SWG"....

 

No one here is asking for a core redesign to turn SWTOR into SWG2.0....not sure where you got that from. What this thread is talking about is how SWTOR could benefit from having SOME of the more freeform / sandbox features found in SWG. There is a huge difference which again, your appraisal conveniently ignores

 

It is a fact that SWTOR would benefit from things like 3d space combat, player housing that we can decorate (even if instanced which would be fine) and also more social professions so that people have more things to do when they dont feel like either levelling or PvPing.

 

Driz

[ImperialSun]

It isn't that we hate SWG.. We hate the false information that people attempt to pass on to support their views.. If you can't make a point on it's own merit then you have no point to make..

 

People talk like SWG was this awsome game.. When it was a complete failure by almost any standard.. Sure.. I will give you that it wasn't all bad.. But was it good enough to improve this game?? Maybe on some small level..

 

The problem is that, the features that some people want from SWG aren't wanted by others..

 

I do not want player housing and do not think that development resources should be used to add them..

 

Player bounty was discussed in the beta and some serious hurdles couldn't be solved.. So they weren't added.. Now despite the ranting and raving from others.. This is a simple fact and the truth of the matter..

 

Chat bubbles are absolutely pointless.. But they are already in the game.. Just turned off.. So turning them back on wouldn't be much of an issue.. They were in the beta and were a huge resource drain.. Don't know if this was fixed.. But that is why they are turned off.. All I ask for is a switch to turn them off for me when people are allowed to use them again.. I don't like them and don't want them on my screen at all..

 

People call for sandbox elements.. What exactly does this mean?? To you?? If you can't be specific then you really aren't worth responding to..

 

Decorating our ship?? Why?? Haven't we out grown 'Barbie's Playhouse'?? I have no desire to hang curtains or other such things..

 

The issue that many of you need to come to terms with.. While you may want some of these things.. Other players do not.. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..

 

My opinion is that it would be shakey ground for Bioware to add some of the features from SWG.. SWG was by no means a success.. Bioware doesn't want to kill the subs it has, and the unpopularity of SWG needs to be treaded lightly.. Despite what pro SWG people may say.. That is the facts of the situation..

 

Basically what Bioware can learn from SWG is what not to do.. Especially if it wants to have more than 300k subs..

 

But thats all your personal opinion. I and many other gamers thoroughly enjoy the option to decorate housing etc and some players would spend hours on activities like this. Also, again, for its time there was nothing wrong at all with 300k subs...you are choosing to compare those sub numbers by todays standards in order to arrive at your conclusion that it was a failure. Judge it by itts own time and place in history and it performed well. Even despite the NGE the game was still live after 8 years, sold a couple of million copies and was only closed down due to a commercial agreement between BW and LA....how is THAT a game failure? In its current format I seriously doubt SWTOR will be live in eight years......the main problem with SWTOR is if you dont want to PvP or level alts there is really not much to do.....

 

Adding in some of the sandbox features found in SWG would give options....you dont like decorating? dont do it. You dont like social professions? dont do them....MMORPGs should be all about options and choosing which aspects of the game appeal to your own personal gameplay experience.

 

Whereas you are simply saying this is what I want so make it so and forget anyone eles desires or opinions....

 

Driz

[Moaky]

And what your appraisal conveniently forgets is that for the time, SWG was probably the second biggest MMO around, until WoW gained a foothold about 1 year after it launched. No, SWG never eclipsed EQ which was THE mainstream MMORPG of the day.

 

Howewver, the numbers that SWG did achieve were very acceptable for the time as no MMORPG at the time had more than about 400-500k subs...it just did not happen until WoW gained a foothold as I said.

 

So to recap...SWG maintained a profitable number of subs throught its lifetime, was imo the most deep and complex and expansive freeform/sandbox MMORPG seen to date, the game lasted almost eight years and would still be live today had it not have been for the exclusivity agreement that BW had when making SWTOR....

 

Oh yes, a real failure.

 

I can tell you dislike the game and may have had a bad experience with it, maybe it was just not your cup of tea. However that does not mean your opinion is fact in any sense. Its also interesting that here in 2012 a lot of gamers are crying out for the functionality and depth found in SWG to be added in to TOR....that speaks volumes.

 

At it's peak SWG was the perfect blend of Themepark and sandbox and the fact is, SWTOR would benefit enormously if some of those sandbox features made their way in to the game....a shameless rip off of JTLS would also help wonders in this game imo.

 

Driz

 

Driz

 

What speaks volumes is that those that cant get over SWG havent shut up about it for yrs now. The vet forums on MMORPG.com are testament to it. The first 4 or 5 yrs was "/cry I miss SWG". After being rediculed for yrs, they keep that stuff mainly on sites like the Fringe.

 

 

I was a EQ junkie for many yrs. This game could of used ideas from EQ, but you dont see those of us that played stomping our feet demanding they rip the core of this game out to make something from the past.

 

A little dose of reality for ya....those 250k subs SWG sported for about 6 months were providing income to both SOE and LA. EQ, at 450k, was being split 1 way. They didnt decide to do the CU on a whim. SOE dumped huge money, for that era, and the return want what they wanted.

 

 

What is most telling about the lack of appeal of SWG is the fact that many customers were sporting numerous accounts. Two accounts per person was common, and five plus for a number of folks wasnt that rare an occurance. Unlike most MMOs, SWG only allowed 1 character per server. You got 2 slots if ya unlocked Jedi. So folks ran a main account, then a buff bot, a trader........

 

 

Like I have always said.....SWG was a great place for those into roleplay, or simply wanting to PVP in the SW universe. For those of us that enjoy PVE, it totally screewed the pooch. Which makes sense.....you cant dedicate the land mass to a plethora of different PVE experiences when you have it reserved as empty parking lots with a "Future Ghost Town" plastered on it.

 

 

As indicated.....I played the best game during that era, and it sure wasnt SWG. That honor belongs to EQ. Folks refusing to shut up about SWG is in no way indicative of its appeal back then. It is simply a case of not being to let their GF go, despite the fact she got run over by a bus.

 

TOR was never meant to be SWG2, and quite frankly, some of us are getting rather annoyed you guys keep spamming the forum in an attempt to get the devs to change this game into the PRECIoUs.

[ImperialSun]

It isn't that we hate SWG.. We hate the false information that people attempt to pass on to support their views.. If you can't make a point on it's own merit then you have no point to make..

 

People talk like SWG was this awsome game.. When it was a complete failure by almost any standard.. Sure.. I will give you that it wasn't all bad.. But was it good enough to improve this game?? Maybe on some small level..

 

The problem is that, the features that some people want from SWG aren't wanted by others..

 

I do not want player housing and do not think that development resources should be used to add them..

 

Player bounty was discussed in the beta and some serious hurdles couldn't be solved.. So they weren't added.. Now despite the ranting and raving from others.. This is a simple fact and the truth of the matter..

 

Chat bubbles are absolutely pointless.. But they are already in the game.. Just turned off.. So turning them back on wouldn't be much of an issue.. They were in the beta and were a huge resource drain.. Don't know if this was fixed.. But that is why they are turned off.. All I ask for is a switch to turn them off for me when people are allowed to use them again.. I don't like them and don't want them on my screen at all..

 

People call for sandbox elements.. What exactly does this mean?? To you?? If you can't be specific then you really aren't worth responding to..

 

Decorating our ship?? Why?? Haven't we out grown 'Barbie's Playhouse'?? I have no desire to hang curtains or other such things..

 

The issue that many of you need to come to terms with.. While you may want some of these things.. Other players do not.. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..

 

My opinion is that it would be shakey ground for Bioware to add some of the features from SWG.. SWG was by no means a success.. Bioware doesn't want to kill the subs it has, and the unpopularity of SWG needs to be treaded lightly.. Despite what pro SWG people may say.. That is the facts of the situation..

 

Basically what Bioware can learn from SWG is what not to do.. Especially if it wants to have more than 300k subs..

 

And to clarify, to me, sandbox elelnments would mean things like:

 

player housing that I can decorate

a freeform space game

more freeform crafting like mining in space

a more fleshed out codex and POI / badge system to promote more exploring

social (non combat) professions

 

No is saying make it sandbox not themepark, you have already eluded to the fact that a game engine of 2012 simply isnt capable of doing things a game from 2003 could do

 

But, some of the above would give players something to do other than PvP or levelling story.....the whole thing about SWG was you could spend just as much time doing things like the above as you could PvPing or levelling your toons....its about options and longevity thats all.....

 

And just because you personally would not to partake in some of those options is absolutely no grounds to say the options should not exist imo.

 

Driz

[Liquidacid]

so many people in here just drowning in their own nostalgia... not that SWG didn't have some nice things but don't delude yourself and ignore the fact that the majority of gamers, ya know the group game developers/producers actually care about, found the game to be mediocre at best and more often than not poor and lacking for the entire time it existed

 

if SWG was so awesome it would not have had a playerbase smaller than my friends list on facebook

Edited September 3, 2012 by Liquidacid

[ImperialSun]

What speaks volumes is that those that cant get over SWG havent shut up about it for yrs now. The vet forums on MMORPG.com are testament to it. The first 4 or 5 yrs was "/cry I miss SWG". After being rediculed for yrs, they keep that stuff mainly on sites like the Fringe.

 

 

I was a EQ junkie for many yrs. This game could of used ideas from EQ, but you dont see those of us that played stomping our feet demanding they rip the core of this game out to make something from the past.

 

A little dose of reality for ya....those 250k subs SWG sported for about 6 months were providing income to both SOE and LA. EQ, at 450k, was being split 1 way. They didnt decide to do the CU on a whim. SOE dumped huge money, for that era, and the return want what they wanted.

 

 

What is most telling about the lack of appeal of SWG is the fact that many customers were sporting numerous accounts. Two accounts per person was common, and five plus for a number of folks wasnt that rare an occurance. Unlike most MMOs, SWG only allowed 1 character per server. You got 2 slots if ya unlocked Jedi. So folks ran a main account, then a buff bot, a trader........

 

 

Like I have always said.....SWG was a great place for those into roleplay, or simply wanting to PVP in the SW universe. For those of us that enjoy PVE, it totally screewed the pooch. Which makes sense.....you cant dedicate the land mass to a plethora of different PVE experiences when you have it reserved as empty parking lots with a "Future Ghost Town" plastered on it.

 

 

As indicated.....I played the best game during that era, and it sure wasnt SWG. That honor belongs to EQ. Folks refusing to shut up about SWG is in no way indicative of its appeal back then. It is simply a case of not being to let their GF go, despite the fact she got run over by a bus.

 

TOR was never meant to be SWG2, and quite frankly, some of us are getting rather annoyed you guys keep spamming the forum in an attempt to get the devs to change this game into the PRECIoUs.

 

The only person stomping their feet is you because others do not share your opinion

 

I get it, you played EQ and did not like SWG...I get the tribalism thing I really do...from someone who obviously cut their teeth playing one of the last true MMORPGs (and yes I consider EQ to be a titan of a game alongside SWG) you seem to be very narrow minded thats all....

 

The fact is, without things other than PvP or levelling, SWTOR is very very limited in scope and it is a shame imo that a game from 2012 is eclipsed in terms of scope, ambition and complexity by both EQ and SWG.

 

Driz

[AshenK]

And what your appraisal conveniently forgets is that for the time, SWG was probably the second biggest MMO around, until WoW gained a foothold about 1 year after it launched. No, SWG never eclipsed EQ which was THE mainstream MMORPG of the day.

 

Howewver, the numbers that SWG did achieve were very acceptable for the time as no MMORPG at the time had more than about 400-500k subs...it just did not happen until WoW gained a foothold as I said.

 

So to recap...SWG maintained a profitable number of subs throught its lifetime, was imo the most deep and complex and expansive freeform/sandbox MMORPG seen to date, the game lasted almost eight years and would still be live today had it not have been for the exclusivity agreement that BW had when making SWTOR....

 

Oh yes, a real failure.

 

I can tell you dislike the game and may have had a bad experience with it, maybe it was just not your cup of tea. However that does not mean your opinion is fact in any sense. Its also interesting that here in 2012 a lot of gamers are crying out for the functionality and depth found in SWG to be added in to TOR....that speaks volumes.

 

At it's peak SWG was the perfect blend of Themepark and sandbox and the fact is, SWTOR would benefit enormously if some of those sandbox features made their way in to the game....a shameless rip off of JTLS would also help wonders in this game imo.

 

Driz

No it wasn't.

 

Really I'm getting sick of hearing the SWG Pre-CU Vet "OMG SWG Pre-CU was the single greatest thing ever!!!!" As I played it. I was in the beta for it. I was part of a group begging SOE to hold off on launching the game as it was broken, missing a ton of systems, and yes I'm one of those players who feel it should have launched with JTLS. But yeah lets get into some of the things you said.

 

SWG was probably the second biggest MMO around, No. I'm going to be nice and go with the 300k player mark that SWG has. Note that the 300k is the 'player peak' that a lot of people claim for SWG. And really we don't know how many people the game lost after launch but it did. Still SWG launched in 2003, that year Ultima Online had hit it's player peak as well with 250k players, remember UO at that point was a 5 year old game. Final Fantasy 11 had come out that year in the U.S. and had hit somewhere from 550k to 600k. Everquest that year was pulling in about the same. The big game was Lineage 1, and care to know the number? A million. Yes it was out in the states however most of the player base was overseas. Still a million players, also a fun history of real life riots and real life gang wars and muggings over Lineage.

 

Point is SWG was maybe third and again that's me being nice. Again there was a sub drop after the game came out, Final Fantasy 11 did do much better then SWG. Mostly due to Final Fantasy 11 having a ad campaign with ad's for the game running along side shows like CSI and ER back then. And Everquest being the WoW of it's day.

 

SWG maintained a profitable number of subs throught its lifetime -No it didn't. Remember that whole NGE thing? Ya know the thing that took the greatest game system ever made and tried to turn SWG into WoW? SOE did lose money on it. Putting out new boxes for the game did cost a bit. They lost a good chunk of the player base, and it wasn't coming back. Really the only things keeping the game somewhat alive? The TCG and station pass.

 

still be live today had it not have been for the exclusivity agreement that BW had when making SWTOR -Again no and we don't know the truth. I've heard two stories. Story one has Lucasarts coming in and decided that the deal with SOE they had for SWG is over. Story two is SOE told Lucasarts that they didn't want to renew the license for SWG. And really? I think it was story two.

 

The team on SWG was down to a handful of people. Tell the truth? After seeing how SOE went about with SWG I don't think they cared too much for the game to start out with. It was clear that SOE had their money on EQ2 and not on SWG. More so then that SOE has other games that chances are they wanted to move the SWG people to, DCUO had made a comeback. Planetside 2 looks like it could do very well. The point is? There was no way SWG was going to last that much longer, I was more shocked that they didn't hold off on shutting the game down til this year.

 

The truth is SWG was a mess of a game. Yes it had some good systems in it, however it had a number of faults from bugs, to a lack of content to game balance. A lot of those systems people talk about came in much later after launch. And well hey guess what? A ton of people view SWG with rose colored glasses with this idea that it was the single greatest thing ever made. Much like how WoW at launch was this game that had tons of content and no bugs, by the way WoW at launch had slightly less content then TOR and had about the same amount of bugs you find in any game.

 

Did the game get a good amount of players? Sure however much like TOR it has that Star Wars name on it, and more so then that it came out at a time when the market wasn't flooded with MMO's. Did those players stay? Some however a number of them left for their old game or for newer games like WoW. The truth is the SWG Vet Players have done a great job with a revisionist history of SWG and are the ones who keep talking about it at every chance they get.

 

Really SWG was a niche game.

[Goretzu]

But was it good enough to improve this game?? Maybe on some small level..

 

 

So you're saying that SWTOR having:

 

A Jump to Lightspeed expansion (SWTOR needs better Space, much better).

Bounty hunting.

More customisation (in species, character looks, size and shape and general clothing/colours).

Wide open real feeling worlds.

Much deeper crafting and harvesting.

Expanded play from pure combat (entertainers, fishing etc,).

Better views.

Sunsets/night/sunrises.

RvR (or RvRvR or WvWvW!!!!).

 

 

Wouldn't improve SWTOR in any marked way?

Edited September 3, 2012 by Goretzu

[Cakellene]

So you're saying that SWTOR having:

 

A Jump to Lightspeed (SWTOR needs better Space, much better).

Bounty hunting.

More customisation (in species, character looks, size and shape and general clothing/colours).

Wide open real feeling worlds.

Much deeper crafting and harvesting.

Expanded play from pure combat (entertainers, fishing etc,).

Better views.

Sunsets/night/sunrises.

RvR (or RvRvR or WvWvW!!!!).

 

 

 

Wouldn't improve SWTOR in any marked way?

 

Subjective, might improve for some, but not others.

[Goretzu]

Subjective, might improve for some, but not others.

 

In what way would ANY of those things "degrade" the game for anyone?

[Cakellene]

In what way would ANY of those things "degrade" the game for anyone?

 

Except for the aesthetic changes (which might be bad depending how it affects my system performance), all the other changes would detract from my enjoyment on a personal level. Why? Because I don't like them.

[Liquidacid]

obviously what this game needs are characters running on macro autopilot standing around the spaceport handing out buffs... or d-bags mashing the dance emote button and then asking for donations so they can afford to build plain cloned houses in giant ghost cities that cover most of the maps Edited September 3, 2012 by Liquidacid

[Goretzu]

Except for the aesthetic changes (which might be bad depending how it affects my system performance), all the other changes would detract from my enjoyment on a personal level. Why? Because I don't like them.

 

Why wouldn't you like them?

 

They can all be ignored and in no way would intrude into your current gameplay (if you didn't want them to).

 

So basically you admit they would in fact improve the game and there is NO reason they would degrade it expect for people being silly and screaming "I don't liiiiiiiiike it!!!!".

 

I completely agree.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Goretzu