I Am All For Pay To Win, Are You?

[iamthehoyden]

No, absolutely not.

[murshawursha]

Firstly, I am not a troll and I am not writing this thread to get attention. I am an adult Star Wars fan who has seen Episode IV - VI in the cinema when they were first screened. I bought into the pre-launch hype and own two copies of SWTOR Collector's Edition, mainly due to the promised "exclusive" CE Store where I hoped to spend real money to buy "exclusive" virtual items. I stopped playing LOTRO for SWTOR and still have LOTRO credits in my LOTRO account.

 

I loved buying vanity items, pets different seasonal horses that are faster and stat and XP boosts in LOTRO and thought SWTOR would be the same, especially the CE store. I found out early in the game that we the CE store concept was only hype, but I gave BW some months to improve on it. I subbed for 6 month because of this and also because I enjoyed SWTOR at the pre-50 levels. I have just unsubbed due to various reasons which I discussed in another thread. However, I plan to pop in after they start the F2P just to have a look at the ingame store to see if there is any P2W items. If they are good enough, I might re-sub.

 

Specific P2W items I like:

PvP Stat boosts

PvP XP boosts

Exclusive CE armour with stats enhancements

Exclusive CE weapons with stats boosts

Flying mounts

Very fast speeders

Cartel coins

Datacrons which are difficult to get

 

Does anyone else like P2W items like I do?

 

So uh, don't take this the wrong way or anything, but please unsub and never come back.

 

Real life is already pay-to-win. At least SWTOR is an even playing field. The second I run into some guy who shelled out $50 in cartel coins for a +500 expertise bonus in a warzone, I'm out of here. That's crap.

[jgoldsack]

My circumstances are similar to the OP. I am a working adult, I can remember going to the theater in the summer of '77 to see Episode IV, I play LOTRO so I am familiar with F2P. etc... While I certainly don't want to see a cash store upset game balance (particularly endgame balance) in SWTOR, I do think BW would be wise to make some of the more mundane necessities like consumables and crafting boosts, as well as cosmetics, available for real money. My play time is fairly limited by real life obligations, so I guess what I am hoping for is "pay to not have to spend my time grinding".

 

I am so flipping tired of the "I am a working adult" argument. You know what? A very large percentage of people who play this game are working adults. I work 8-6 every day, have 3 young children... yet because I am able to manage my time I am able to do everything in this game that I want (currently rank 85 pvp). I have 5 alts all at 40+, all crafting skills maxed out, etc etc.

 

Stop using that as an excuse, because it really makes you sound like you do not know how to balance your time.

[ReverendAnderson]

keeping my sub open just to see what happens.

 

Can't you do that without being subscribed? I mean, what happens when "what happens" is something you don't like and you just spent months paying $15 to see it?

[Gomla]

Why do people act like this business tactic is exclusive to EA? ALL companies are in business to milk you if they can. People championing against EA like they invented corporate greed just makes them look dumb.

 

Did I say they invented it or did I say they will milk it?

 

Reading comprehension 101 bud.

 

If something is going to make them money then they are going to do it. People can sit there and say they won't but some of us know damn well they will. ActiVision and Ubisoft are just as bad and the recent price debacle over Dawnguard and the Horse Armour in Oblivion put Bathesda on that map too.

 

No it's not down to one company but then again those other companies don't have anything to do with SWTOR do they.

 

Now stop being pedantic.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Gomla

[TheBBP]

Did I say they invented it or did I say they will milk it?

 

Reading comprehension 101 bud.

 

If something is going to make them money then they are going to do it. People can sit there and say they won't but some of us know damn well they will. ActiVision and Ubisoft are just as bad and the recent price debacle over Dawnguard and the Horse Armour in Oblivion put Bathesda on that map too.

 

No it's not down to one company but then again those other companies don't have anything to do with SWTOR do they.

 

Now stop being pedantic.

 

Easy there slugger. There is a reason that I used the word "people" and did not directly address you in my reply.

[psandak]

I too am a working adult and a long time SW fan. And I am dead set against P2W. Firstly, I have more important things to spend what little disposable income I have on. Second, honestly, I am OK with not having the best of the best gear. I know that takes a certain level of dedication that I can no longer commit to.

 

My circumstances are similar to the OP. I am a working adult, I can remember going to the theater in the summer of '77 to see Episode IV, I play LOTRO so I am familiar with F2P. etc... While I certainly don't want to see a cash store upset game balance (particularly endgame balance) in SWTOR, I do think BW would be wise to make some of the more mundane necessities like consumables and crafting boosts, as well as cosmetics, available for real money. My play time is fairly limited by real life obligations, so I guess what I am hoping for is "pay to not have to spend my time grinding".

 

That is akin to being able to buy blue armor between levels 1-49. This I am OK with. Like others have said, if that blue gear comes with expertise that's P2W and that's something that would cause me concern.

 

Both of these, QFT. I'm all for Pay2Pretty. But Pay2Win is another thing. It's disgusting. You dont pay to reach max stats in a console game. And thats the point of playing the game. If you're going to buy an item in even a console game that gives you max stats, I dont see the point in playing the game at all. Takes away any challenge that would be present. I'm not even sure why someone would want it in a game, but thats your choice.

 

That's no different than a god mode cheat code. I'm not saying it's OK, just saying that functions like this have existed for a LONG time. Some players of games do not care about challenge, they care about the content.

[CKNORTH]

It is quite simple, chop up your credit card and don't buy anything, play the free content of you absolutely need something from the store wait for game cards to come out. Lord knows there's enough bad credit out there these days anyways

[Lazzer]

My circumstances are similar to the OP. I am a working adult, I can remember going to the theater in the summer of '77 to see Episode IV, I play LOTRO so I am familiar with F2P. etc... While I certainly don't want to see a cash store upset game balance (particularly endgame balance) in SWTOR, I do think BW would be wise to make some of the more mundane necessities like consumables and crafting boosts, as well as cosmetics, available for real money. My play time is fairly limited by real life obligations, so I guess what I am hoping for is "pay to not have to spend my time grinding".

 

To be fair I've never understood this argument, I work 50 hours a week, have a wife and 2 kids and have maybe time to play 3 days a week at about 3 to 6 hours depending on what time I can log in after the kids are asleep.

 

I have a level 50 who is full Columi with a few Rakata pieces, I'm still breaking into Denova. The only thing that is the bane of my play style is the BH commendations on the daily grinds that are setting a new gear standard, I can keep up through doing Ops once a week and HM FPs here and there but the time required to do the BH dailies is what I don't have (and frankly have no real interest in).

[Ratior]

So uh, don't take this the wrong way or anything, but please unsub and never come back.

 

Real life is already pay-to-win. At least SWTOR is an even playing field. The second I run into some guy who shelled out $50 in cartel coins for a +500 expertise bonus in a warzone, I'm out of here. That's crap.

 

No probs. I respect your point of view. If you read my original post properly, I have already unsubbed. I am currently on my free extra month.

 

I will be playing GW2 at pre-launch and looking forward to their ingame store since I will be saving about $13 from unsubbing from SWTOR. I am from an Asian country and $13 is a lot when converted to my country's currency. I hope I won't overspend there.

[Urael]

Where was this at?

 

The interview (link in the threads) that spawned the following two threads:

 

Gamescom Interview with Jeff Hickman about the future of SWTOR

 

TOR to sell Stated Gear In FTP cash shop here is our new content after 6 monthes

[TheBBP]

The interview (link in the threads) that spawned the following two threads:

 

Gamescom Interview with Jeff Hickman about the future of SWTOR

 

TOR to sell Stated Gear In FTP cash shop here is our new content after 6 monthes

 

Thanks man.

[Trolltar]

Pay to win for PVE, which is cooperative? Sure, fine with me. I don't care if someone wants to do that.

 

Pay to win for PVP, which is competitive? No way no how.

[Mancer]

Everybody know it ain't pay-to-win if you got it.

 

Swag.

 

Wrong, keep your false hope alive if you will but F2P means PTW. I too left LOTRO for this game. You could not bye campaign gear from the store but you could build a similar weapon in a matter of minutes. The store will enable you to keep up with the raiders. It will be the same here eventually. True, BW will introduce the powerful itmes into the store slowly. But it will happen because if nothing else for the sake of time many others do not have to invest in this game they have the $15-$20 to.

[WarbNull]

Firstly, I am not a troll and I am not writing this thread to get attention. I am an adult Star Wars fan who has seen Episode IV - VI in the cinema when they were first screened. I bought into the pre-launch hype and own two copies of SWTOR Collector's Edition, mainly due to the promised "exclusive" CE Store where I hoped to spend real money to buy "exclusive" virtual items. I stopped playing LOTRO for SWTOR and still have LOTRO credits in my LOTRO account.

 

I loved buying vanity items, pets different seasonal horses that are faster and stat and XP boosts in LOTRO and thought SWTOR would be the same, especially the CE store. I found out early in the game that we the CE store concept was only hype, but I gave BW some months to improve on it. I subbed for 6 month because of this and also because I enjoyed SWTOR at the pre-50 levels. I have just unsubbed due to various reasons which I discussed in another thread. However, I plan to pop in after they start the F2P just to have a look at the ingame store to see if there is any P2W items. If they are good enough, I might re-sub.

 

Specific P2W items I like:

PvP Stat boosts

PvP XP boosts

Exclusive CE armour with stats enhancements

Exclusive CE weapons with stats boosts

Flying mounts

Very fast speeders

Cartel coins

Datacrons which are difficult to get

 

Does anyone else like P2W items like I do?

If they go P2W I will leave the game, even though I do not PVP. The thought of it just sickens me and is appalling. That type of system ruins a game and its community.

 

My idea of P2W only deals with PVP. When someone has an advantage over other Players just because they bought something. Things like you listed. So if they do that then I will quite the game even though I just started playing.

 

By the way these items you listed are not P2W.

 

1. PvP XP boosts - This would just be people paying to level faster. Everyone will level no matter if they pay or not.
   
2. Flying mounts - A mount has nothing to do with wining in this game, its just a ride. Unless its exclusive everyone can get it.
   
3. Very fast speeders - Again its just a ride. Everyone can get them and just allows you to get somewhere faster.
   
4. Cartel coins - This is just the currency for there in game store. Everyone can get it.
   
5. Datacrons which are difficult to get - This is like an XP Boost. You would pay just to skip the process to get it.
   

 

These three below are the only ones that you list which can have the possibility to be P2W. That is if they go beyond what you can get normally for free in the game. Something that so far they have not said they will do.

 

1. PvP Stat boosts
   
2. Exclusive CE armour with stats enhancements
   
3. Exclusive CE weapons with stats boosts
   

 

If they were add the three above in a way to which they give (and / or) have stats more than that which you can get in the game without being able to pay then that would be Pay-To-Win. They have not said that they are going to do that. In fact they hinted to the opposite. I highly doubt that they are going to give anything that has a stat increase more than what you can already get in the game for free. It will all just be like a way to get things faster (and / or) skipping the process to get it.

Exclusive Items for CE, well that is just Exclusive already and not much of an advantage.

Edited August 21, 2012 by WarbNull

[Ratior]

WarbNull:

I consider anything that provides any advantage to the player, whether it saves him time in levelling or enables him get from A to B faster, or it provides him an advantage in PvP or PvE combat, to be P2W items.

 

In other words, anything that gives the player any advantage in the game and are not purely vanity items like non-combative pets or no-stats armour skins are, IMHO, P2W items.

[Gomla]

Easy there slugger. There is a reason that I used the word "people" and did not directly address you in my reply.

 

In that case I apologise, I was a bit hasty in the reply.

 

The point I was (albeit very badly) trying to get across is people seem to think it will only be cosmetic items in the cash shop type thing. We've seen enough from the big publishers to know that if sets of armour and weapons will make money then they will sell them.

 

Cosmetics only bring in so much money whereas everyone likes shiny new armour and weapons. It all comes down to what will bring in the most cash.

 

I won't put anything past them.

 

We already know F2P is a stretch, and I called it last year (i'll drag up the quote if need be) that it would not go free to play it would go freemium. You get relatively nothing in the F2P model and in order to do anything it will cost.

[BlazingShadow]

You will see:

 

Deluxe Quicktravel

Social Animations

Custom outfits

Custom ship items that you can get only a SIMILAR version from the game (SWG did this with the hangar bay for those lucky in the TCG lottery and gave reg. players a small control panel to do the same "important" function, which was to store POBs)

[Asavar]

Uh no?

[Ratior]

You will see:

 

Deluxe Quicktravel

Social Animations

Custom outfits

Custom ship items that you can get only a SIMILAR version from the game (SWG did this with the hangar bay for those lucky in the TCG lottery and gave reg. players a small control panel to do the same "important" function, which was to store POBs)

 

BlazingShadow:

I consider Quicktravel P2W. Will you be buying Deluxe Quicktravel if offered in SWTOR?

[WarbNull]

WarbNull:

I consider anything that provides any advantage to the player, whether it saves him time in levelling or enables him get from A to B faster, or it provides him an advantage in PvP or PvE combat, to be P2W items.

 

In other words, anything that gives the player any advantage in the game and are not purely vanity items like non-combative pets or no-stats armour skins are, IMHO, P2W items.

I used to be the same way, but now I am just at the opinion that if I can go out and kill a few things to get something that is equal to or better than what I can by just buying it then its not an advantage at all. I now view people that buy such things as just being Lazy and wanting to skip ahead the the end. Like reading the ending of a book to see what happens.

I also view it now as if they wish to give there money to companies in order to skip a few things in the game then more power to them. It does not hurt me as a player. Now if it was to give them an advantage over me then I will not like it.

It is sort of like the Kits Shortcuts in BF3. A game that I mod for. Players in that game can pay to unlock kits instead of earning them as they level. It rally does not give them an advantage as everyone can earn them. (Or pick them up off there dead bodies.) Its just them paying to skip ahead and have things like others that already have them. They do not get an advantage. They are just being Lazy.

Edited August 21, 2012 by WarbNull

[Gerandar]

Specific P2W items I like:

PvP Stat boosts

PvP XP boosts

Exclusive CE armour with stats enhancements

Exclusive CE weapons with stats boosts

Flying mounts

Very fast speeders

Cartel coins

Datacrons which are difficult to get

 

Does anyone else like P2W items like I do?

 

First off all, Flying mounts would require a ton of reworking of the zones secondly, your special Collectors edition items you are asking for wouldn't be pay 2 win as only collectors edition owners would be able to buy it right? get off your high horse we as CE holders got our ****** CE vendor. pay 2 win games tend to fail so enjoy playing with next to no one.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Gerandar

[Goretzu]

Does anyone else like P2W items like I do?

 

 

Once a game becomes P2W it becomes pointless (and no one will play it).

 

It's like allowing people to buy God-Mode in Team Fortress.

[Ratior]

First off all, Flying mounts would require a ton of reworking of the zones secondly, your special Collectors edition items you are asking for wouldn't be pay 2 win as only collectors edition owners would be able to buy it right? get off your high horse we as CE holders got our ****** CE vendor. pay 2 win games tend to fail so enjoy playing with next to no one.

 

This thread is not about reworking of zones, its about whether or not one is for or against P2W. If EA thinks people would play for flying mounts, why wouldn't they rework the zones? This would be a business decision.

 

And yes, I am referring to items that are only accessible to CE owners that would give the purchaser advantage over other players in a PvP situation like Warzones or any open world PvP situation. I am not getting off my high horse. I paid for my 2 SWTOR CE games and I want access to exclusive items.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Ratior

[Dagor-Dagorath]

To be fair I've never understood this argument, I work 50 hours a week, have a wife and 2 kids and have maybe time to play 3 days a week at about 3 to 6 hours depending on what time I can log in after the kids are asleep.

 

I have a level 50 who is full Columi with a few Rakata pieces, I'm still breaking into Denova. The only thing that is the bane of my play style is the BH commendations on the daily grinds that are setting a new gear standard, I can keep up through doing Ops once a week and HM FPs here and there but the time required to do the BH dailies is what I don't have (and frankly have no real interest in).

 

I understand, and I am sure there many busy people who choose to play MMO games in their free time. I guess I am simply saying that having the option to purchase certain in-game items with real money, rather than having to grind them, is for me a question of resource management. If I have the choice of buying something for $2 for example, or spending a 1/2 hour farming it, then what I consider is whether my time is worth more than $4/hour. If it is, then I would rather just use the store. Again, I am talking about consumables, etc.... Not having to worry too much about acquiring such items allows me to focus my play time on the fun part - leveling, gearing up, enjoying the story etc ...

 

Also, another post made reference to balancing time. My perspective is that the issue is not so much balancing one's time as it is being smart with one's time.