Resolve Needs To Be Redesigned

[Volcanicstrad]

My only problem with resolve is half the time you are immune you are stunned.... So it gets filled while you are in a stun or even a mez. And most of the time it's too little too late, but this coming from a sage. I usually am immune in the rez area.

[Darth_Philar]

i agree that ppl who die within one stun are focus fired (often, frustratingly, as soon as they drop from spawn), but plenty of classes can chain two stuns together, and anyone with cybertech grenades certainly can.

 

most often (especially pre-nerf, scrapper scoundrels/concealment ops would kill their target with shoot first knockdown/stun chained with dirty kick, allowing a total of 4 attacks before the target can even pop a dcd. however, the targets that dropped 100% in that time would have been at a gear disadvantage (mostly centurian vs. mostly champion). in 1.3 wz's, a concealment op can still knock me down to ~50% on a fully geared vanguard before I have the opportunity to neural surge or pop shield.

 

to be more constructive, I do think there needs to be a couple seconds immunity when one uses his breaker. every class has a breaker. i'm thinking of hb here, but i have the ball. i have to cross a fire b/c no teammates are in front. I've saved my breaker. hell, i've even cryo'd a nearby mara. so I cross the fire. i'm immediately stunned. I break it. the instant i break it, i'm stunned again. fire. death. that's ********. i know some wiseass will say L2P. w/e. it's ********.

 

You died in the fire thanks to a tactical error by you (crossing the fire pit) which was the result of a tactical failure by your team (not being in position to receive a pass). Resolve is unrelated to your example.

[bbare]

First of all I know how to use resolve. But the simple fact that one must have it explained to them in order for it to work is an inherent flaw. Yes raids need to do research on bosses before engaging but a system so ingrained in PvP like Resolve shouldn't need such explaining. Also most of the people who say "you don't know how to use it" fail at arguing their point. Resolve often doesn't do a damn thing.

 

You clearly don't understand how resolve works. It "didn't do a damn thing" because you were not cc'd, you were immobilized. I have never encountered a situation in which I had been "white barred" and still got cc'd. It takes 5 sec of explaining to understand resolve. When someone is "white barred," they are immune to incapacitating effects and knockbacks.

[foxmob]

You died in the fire thanks to a tactical error by you (crossing the fire pit) which was the result of a tactical failure by your team (not being in position to receive a pass). Resolve is unrelated to your example.

 

I began by offering a solution to the stunlock "problem," which leaves the actual resolve system alone. however, it is entirely related to the op's post about the game's cc mechanics. it's called offering an alternative solution to alleviate the same problem. allow a very brief period (1 or 2 secs) of immunity to stuns (slows remain unaffected) after popping a breaker.

 

as for my tactical error, please do enlighten me. what wouldn't have been a "tactical error"?

[Darth_Philar]

I began by offering a solution to the stunlock "problem," which leaves the actual resolve system alone. however, it is entirely related to the op's post about the game's cc mechanics. it's called offering an alternative solution to alleviate the same problem. allow a very brief period (1 or 2 secs) of immunity to stuns (slows remain unaffected) after popping a breaker.

 

as for my tactical error, please do enlighten me. what wouldn't have been a "tactical error"?

 

Not crossing the fire or passing back to a teammate both immediately spring to mind. You were put in a crappy situation, to be sure, but attempting to cross a fire pit with the ball will always be a tactical error. Sometimes you get away with it, most of the time you don't.

[CharterMonkKent]

1. No single class can kill someone at full HP within the duration of a single stun.

2. No single class has two stuns to chain in the first place.

3. That means, if you are being killed while stunned, you are being focused.

4. Conclusion: It's a focus-fire issue, not a resolve issue

 

Translated into simple terms: you drew attention of many enemies, did not have an exit strategy, and thus, were stunned and focused to death.

 

Is Resolve busted? No sir, your tactics are.

 

Point #2 is not correct. PTs have two stuns to chain. Electro Dart stun for 4 seconds and Carbonize AOE stun for 3 seconds (I use combat tech gear).

 

Point one could be argued against but it requires a gear gap to happen. If a toon has 14k or less gear a PT Pyro has a decent chance of killing him/her with one stun. Especially if the PT: incendiary -> TD -> electro dart -> RS -> RP. If that doesn't kill someone with 14K HP it would only take one flameburst to finish him off. You can see that even if the toon breaks the initial stun the PT can still apply the 3 sec. In reality if the PT is up close he will use Carbonize first so when the toon breaks it the PT will have a 4 sec stun to kill him off with.

[Elboc]

My opinion on this is as follows: you have people that get it, and people that are more new to PvP and dont. The fix? Ranked Solo queue. Why? You will be playing against people and with people that are on your same skill level. People that dont stun people that are not in the fire, etc.

 

As for the system itself, I think its fine. With the exception of lag and warping people get stunned as intended and resolve works.

[PlagaNerezza]

If a player doesn't know everything, they should listen to those superior in skill, or more "1337" as you put, and at least try to rectify the situation by practicing more, getting better gear, and experiencing more matches.

 

Instead, the "player that doesn't know everything", quickly turns into the "player that knows nothing" by just simply waltzing into these forums and start blaming everything else that is directly or non-directly related to PvP and combat.

 

Yes, EVERYTHING, EXCEPT THEMSELVES.

 

You know how I play a new class I've never played before?

 

 

First, I just try it.

 

Then, I try to find material to see which builds are recommended, and then build up on my own skill trees by investing large sums of credits constantly to find which ones fit me best.

 

I test out each new given skill in PvP to see if it is viable, and if some skills are said to be not viable, I still try it myself to find out if its really true, and if there isn't some way which I may be able to use it in combat.

 

I make theories and scenarios on how to use certain skills better, then I try and experiment, do everything in a trial-or-error, and each success or failure adds to my experience.

 

Then I meet superior characters in either skill or gear (or both), and I get crushed. I think of ways to avoid certain situations, and then practice it again. If it seems I'm to weak or undergeared or underlevelled, I go and level up some more, get more skills, get better gear, and I try again. I do this until I reach level 50, again, and again, and again, to see what works and what does not.

 

And after it takes many months in the process of reaching lv50, getting best gear I can get, running a large number of matches to get enough experience, to feel a certain level of confidence in myself.... after all that, and I still get owned by some class which I cannot hope to beat in whatever imagineable scenario, only then it is really "PROVEN" to myself that certain situations I cannot hope to beat, and perhaps its a balance issue, or something else.

 

Elitist? Give me a break. The way I myself typically make a character and practice with it, I probably practice more than all of the whiners in this thread combined. If there is anything "elite" about the people who tell you to L2P, is the amount of practice we devote to, if not necessarily by time, at least the intensity of it, reviewing fights, making new combat theories, and coordinating yourself to practice it.

 

That allows us the understanding of the system, and how to survive it.

 

And I'm not even a good player. In terms of PvP I probably rank about average or little lower. That just shows just where the complainers are in the "ladder" -- like, the bottom.

 

How can anyone "understand" anything when they don't try to go up the ladder and see the panoramic view, the wider perspective in how PvP elements are designed?

 

So tell me again it's the system, because from my experience, and also speaking for every high-level PvP players out there, it definately ain't. Nobody can understand anything when they don't study it.

 

Assassin 23/1/17 has two hard stuns.

 

Electrocute and whirlwind give you 2 stuns with 6 seconds of hard stun. With about 1 more second for the dmg breaking whirlwind to produce movement. You have a stun grenade as well if you want to add more.

 

You can stealth and CC. I can spike, electocute beat on you then whirlwind and beat on you some more and most people cannot respond before taking significant dmg. In tandem with an operative or another assassin we can stunlock you. Electrocute, electrocute, whirlwind is a stunlock death. Operative open and my stun is same with my whirlwind.

 

Resolve needs to be way more sensitive to CC and stuns. Considering stuns are the most powerful cc in the game its amazing to me how time is the factor of how much resolve a skill produces instead of the strength of the CC. A stun is worse than being blinded, which typically breaks on dmg and has a short stun if specc'd.

 

Stuns need to give you full resolve. If you are stunned once you should be done getting stunned.

 

"Stun Wars" is not a fun game. Well unless your specc'd to stun.

[clickonce]

2. No single class has two stuns to chain in the first place.

 

All stealthers have at least 2.

 

I have 3.

 

spinning kick from stealth

stun

force-lift (interrupt + stuns for 1 sec on early damage break)

[oredith]

the only thing i dislike about resolve, is when i'm sitting there looking at my full resolve bar thinking i'm home free! while I watching the debuff timer tick down from 6 seconds on a full duration Awe.

[rbaratheon]

All stealthers have at least 2.

 

I have 3.

 

spinning kick from stealth

stun

force-lift (interrupt + stuns for 1 sec on early damage break)

 

4 if you count mind maze when not in combat. I've found that very helpful in Voidstar when solo'ing a node. Assuming the guard doesn't call for help, you can hit mind maze, start on the door, they'll use their CC break, and then you force lift them for the 8 seconds it takes to hit the door. While they're force-lifted, their resolve bar will be full and decreasing, yet unable to break CC.

 

If everyone in the game has a CC, resolve needs to build quicker and if you get stunlocked, focused, and die, your resolve timer should be frozen until you get out into the field. It's frustrating to get stunlocked, focused, and killed only to have your newly acquired resolve disintegrate while you're waiting behind the barrier so you can run back out there and repeat the exercise.

[clickonce]

4 if you count mind maze when not in combat. I've found that very helpful in Voidstar when solo'ing a node. Assuming the guard doesn't call for help, you can hit mind maze, start on the door, they'll use their CC break, and then you force lift them for the 8 seconds it takes to hit the door. While they're force-lifted, their resolve bar will be full and decreasing, yet unable to break CC.

 

If everyone in the game has a CC, resolve needs to build quicker and if you get stunlocked, focused, and die, your resolve timer should be frozen until you get out into the field. It's frustrating to get stunlocked, focused, and killed only to have your newly acquired resolve disintegrate while you're waiting behind the barrier so you can run back out there and repeat the exercise.

 

I didnt count mind maze as I was just talking about stuns (assuming that's what the original quoted person meant).. it breaks on damage. But yea.. for CC in general there's mind maze too.

[Daikeru]

Assassin 23/1/17 has two hard stuns.

 

Electrocute and whirlwind give you 2 stuns with 6 seconds of hard stun. With about 1 more second for the dmg breaking whirlwind to produce movement. You have a stun grenade as well if you want to add more.

 

You can stealth and CC. I can spike, electocute beat on you then whirlwind and beat on you some more and most people cannot respond before taking significant dmg. In tandem with an operative or another assassin we can stunlock you. Electrocute, electrocute, whirlwind is a stunlock death. Operative open and my stun is same with my whirlwind.

 

Resolve needs to be way more sensitive to CC and stuns. Considering stuns are the most powerful cc in the game its amazing to me how time is the factor of how much resolve a skill produces instead of the strength of the CC. A stun is worse than being blinded, which typically breaks on dmg and has a short stun if specc'd.

 

Stuns need to give you full resolve. If you are stunned once you should be done getting stunned.

 

"Stun Wars" is not a fun game. Well unless your specc'd to stun.

 

Stuns are 200 Resolve for each second of its duration. Mezzes are 100 Resolve for each second of its duration. So the amount of Resolve a CC produces is dependent on the strength of the CC and of its duration. If you don't believe me just cast your whirlwind and slap your target, at that moment they should be 1200 Resolve which you'll see start ticking down in about 2 seconds. Also, you don't need to use your whirlwind, you can just spike your target and get the same effect w/o making them have 2000 Resolve. That is if the stun effect still occurs .... I don't really trust that it does, but I haven't tried it myself so I can't say otherwise.

[UGLYMRJ]

I'd like to see resolve stack... so when some idiot wastes his stun on someone (ME) with full resolve... they get a longer duration of full resolve.

 

I'd like to think this would encourage smarter game play.... I'm wrong, but a man can dream.

Edited August 14, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Daikeru]

I'd like to see resolve stack... so when some idiot wastes his stun on someone (ME) with full resolve... they get a longer duration of full resolve.

 

I'd like to think this would encourage smarter game play.... I'm wrong, but a man can dream.

 

That would actually be cool to see how it changing gameplay xD Would suck for when I use Awe though xD

[UGLYMRJ]

That would actually be cool to see how it changing gameplay xD Would suck for when I use Awe though xD

 

All I can think about is Huttball... people get so stun happy instead of using them wisely... if they implemented my idea, the very first ball carrier could probably finish the match with resolve up the entire time.

[Daikeru]

All I can think about is Huttball... people get so stun happy instead of using them wisely... if they implemented my idea, the very first ball carrier could probably finish the match with resolve up the entire time.

 

So true, luckily for me I'm a Combat Sentinel (^_^) He'll have a hard time either way <3

[dcgregorya]

As a Sentinel, probably the most CC susceptible class in the game, Resolve is fine. If you truly knew resolve, you wouldn't say it's useless. Once you understand resolve you can apply that to your advantage immediately. Most people are just too stupid to understand it properly. If you want proof just play a huttball, watch how quickly the ball carrier gets full resolve outside of a trap or immediate danger of being killed. It's stupid.

 

Most classes will never survive long enough to utilize a full resolve bar. That's the problem with resolve, if you're 9/10 classes, you're only going to see it filled as you wait for the door to the respawn to open.

 

If the purpose of it was to prevent people from getting stun-locked to death it fails at that because you can get chain stunned for about 10 seconds which is plenty of time to get killed.

Edited August 14, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Darth_Philar]

Most classes will never survive long enough to utilize a full resolve bar. That's the problem with resolve, if you're 9/10 classes, you're only going to see it filled as you wait for the door to the respawn to open.

 

If the purpose of it was to prevent people from getting stun-locked to death it fails at that because you can get chain stunned for about 10 seconds which is plenty of time to get killed.

 

And that fact that Resolve fills up very quickly further illustrates that the issue is with player survival times, not with the Resolve system.

 

I think that they need to apply the Trauma debuff to healing AND damage.

 

EDIT: Also, 8 seconds is the most amount of time you can be consecutively stunned, and that requires 2 enemy players using their 4 second hard stuns on you (which means, as you indicated, you are going to die).

Edited August 14, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[dcgregorya]

And that fact that Resolve fills up very quickly further illustrates that the issue is with player survival times, not with the Resolve system.

 

I think that they need to apply the Trauma debuff to healing AND damage.

 

EDIT: Also, 8 seconds is the most amount of time you can be consecutively stunned, and that requires 2 enemy players using their 4 second hard stuns on you (which means, as you indicated, you are going to die).

 

Well, recently I picked Guild Wars (the first one) back up, just because the PVP here was killing me, and I gotta say three major differences:

 

1) Very, very few hard stuns. Mostly knockdowns where you're out of commission for about 2 seconds.

2) The defensive cooldowns available are much better, overall, between all the classes (things like self heals, self cleanses and combined with 75% block chance or 50% block chance are fairly common in most random arena builds). It's much easier to punish the opponent for focus firing by incorporating defensive abilities into your build.

3) When you win, your team stays together. If you lose, it disbands and you build a new team. This means its pretty rare to keep losing over and over again.

 

Guild Wars is more of a fan of disables and interrupts - debuffs that prevent you from doing certain things or punish you if you do certain things. It's *MUCH* more engaging that way. You don't feel nearly as useless as you do in this game while being mez'd or hard stunned half the game.

 

By contrast this game has maybe one debuff I'm aware of (accuracy debuffs) and everything else is CC after CC after CC. Stuns, snares, roots, knockbacks, it's a terrible experience going against a good team that makes use of CC because you can't do anything 3/4s of time if you're their focus target.

 

So anyway, the purpose of this mini-rant is that I'd like to see the game shift away from stuns and have more in the way of debuffing DPS. Accuracy debuffs, energy drains, reflective damage, etc to control and mitigate that doesn't leave people hard stunned for eternity.

Edited August 14, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Darth_Philar]

Well, recently I picked Guild Wars (the first one) back up, just because the PVP here was killing me, and I gotta say three major differences:

 

1) Very, very few hard stuns. Mostly knockdowns where you're out of commission for about 2 seconds.

2) The defensive cooldowns available are much better, overall, between all the classes (things like self heals, self cleanses and combined with 75% block chance or 50% block chance are fairly common in most random arena builds).

3) When you win, your team stays together. If you lose, it disbands and you build a new team. This means its pretty rare to keep losing over and over again.

 

Guild Wars is more of a fan of disables - debuffs that prevent you from doing certain things or punish you if you do certain things. It's *MUCH* more engaging that way. You don't feel nearly as useless as you do in this game while being mez'd or hard stunned half the game.

 

My favorite part about GW1 was that your ability bar only had 8 slots that could not be changed once you entered a phased area. This meant that you had to make strategic choices as to what abilities you planned to take. It also facillitated the lack of stuns as they would be less necessary in general as a result of less potential enemy abilities and of a lower priority in general as a result of you only have 8 slots to use.

 

They also did a pretty good job implementing objectives (no need for an 8 second mezz in a game where capping a point does not require an 8 second channel).

[Talon_strikes]

They need to redesign this bull of a system in PvP.

 

I'm sick of so many of the OP classes lots of players have said that they need to be nerfed, and also their stuns and doing something about it cause when you try to CC them those classes with a lot of CC breakers can't be stopped.

 

BioWare: L2Nerf, L2Balance and L2Dev.

Edited August 14, 2012 by HomicidalWhales

[TUXs]

First of all I know how to use resolve. But the simple fact that one must have it explained to them in order for it to work is an inherent flaw. Yes raids need to do research on bosses before engaging but a system so ingrained in PvP like Resolve shouldn't need such explaining. Also most of the people who say "you don't know how to use it" fail at arguing their point. Resolve often doesn't do a damn thing.

 

It doesn't need explaining, it just flat out sucks.

[PlagaNerezza]

Stuns are 200 Resolve for each second of its duration. Mezzes are 100 Resolve for each second of its duration. So the amount of Resolve a CC produces is dependent on the strength of the CC and of its duration. If you don't believe me just cast your whirlwind and slap your target, at that moment they should be 1200 Resolve which you'll see start ticking down in about 2 seconds. Also, you don't need to use your whirlwind, you can just spike your target and get the same effect w/o making them have 2000 Resolve. That is if the stun effect still occurs .... I don't really trust that it does, but I haven't tried it myself so I can't say otherwise.

 

Exactly my point. You use whirlwind last. It gives you an additional 2 second stun in madness.

 

Spike 2s KD(Stun) (400 resolve). Electrocute 4s stun (800 resolve). That will fill your resolve if you back to back them, but that isn't how the setup works..

 

That is 8 seconds of hard stun with a minimum stun time usually around 6 seconds as most people do not use a CC breaker until resolve is full.

 

If you are good or lucky its 4. Two stuns do not necessary fill resolve if you understand the mechanics. It is working out to be 3 stuns. As most skilled players stun and let it wear off before following back up with another stun.

 

Open with electrocute then spike as the clock is even more in your favor to grant another stun as an assassin. 4*25 is 100 down ticks on resolve. That is 700 when he's able to act. Wait 2 second as he stands which you probably will anyways as you finish a hit with the gcd and spike and resolve is still open even after another 2 second stun.

 

Real game play stuns are not hitting 1/2. You rarely get hit with the second stun till you react.

 

All I am asking is that the values be brought higher on stuns I think that would help.

[Jestuh]

Well, recently I picked Guild Wars (the first one) back up, just because the PVP here was killing me, and I gotta say three major differences:

 

1) Very, very few hard stuns. Mostly knockdowns where you're out of commission for about 2 seconds.

2) The defensive cooldowns available are much better, overall, between all the classes (things like self heals, self cleanses and combined with 75% block chance or 50% block chance are fairly common in most random arena builds). It's much easier to punish the opponent for focus firing by incorporating defensive abilities into your build.

3) When you win, your team stays together. If you lose, it disbands and you build a new team. This means its pretty rare to keep losing over and over again.

 

Guild Wars is more of a fan of disables and interrupts - debuffs that prevent you from doing certain things or punish you if you do certain things. It's *MUCH* more engaging that way. You don't feel nearly as useless as you do in this game while being mez'd or hard stunned half the game.

 

By contrast this game has maybe one debuff I'm aware of (accuracy debuffs) and everything else is CC after CC after CC. Stuns, snares, roots, knockbacks, it's a terrible experience going against a good team that makes use of CC because you can't do anything 3/4s of time if you're their focus target.

 

So anyway, the purpose of this mini-rant is that I'd like to see the game shift away from stuns and have more in the way of debuffing DPS. Accuracy debuffs, energy drains, reflective damage, etc to control and mitigate that doesn't leave people hard stunned for eternity.

 

This needs to be painted on a wall in Bioware Austin. And in front of every urinal and behind every bathroom stall door.

 

There's a small accuracy debuff and an armor debuff that I'm aware of (though I think the armor debuff is not applied to the target but a damage buff given to the attacker).

 

I never played GW but I loved the combat system in City of Heroes. There were so many varied buffs and debuffs (defense, accuracy, damage, knockback, armor, GCD time) that it made the game really complex and interesting. Two whole classes in that game were almost exclusively buffers/debuffers. SWTOR is like a coloring book at Dennys. You get red, yellow, and blue (tanks, dpsers, and healers).