"We've been trained to handle Sith."...What?

[Charon]

You may defend BioWare, but let me point to the end of the Bounty Hunter storyline,(SPOILERS) he kills, what? six Jedi Knights? all at the same time, in-fact IIRC one or two of them are Jedi Masters.

 

Obsidian got it right, when Atton stated that Darth Revan knew the soldiers didn't matter, they were just cannon fodder, the war would be won by whoever had the most Jedi/Dark Jedi, because they were the only ones who even mattered.

This is possibly repeated by the Exile herself in the tomb of Ludo Kressh,

 

Six Jedis that were arrogant and overconfident in their abilities, so much so that they underestimated the Bounty Hunter. Their deaths are justified by their arrogance lol which would make their deaths quite canon if they planned on writing a novel about the Bounty Hunter.

[ScarletBlaze]

Six Jedis that were arrogant and overconfident in their abilities, so much so that they underestimated the Bounty Hunter. Their deaths are justified by their arrogance lol which would make their deaths quite canon if they planned on writing a novel about the Bounty Hunter.

 

this reminds me of a conversation in Attack of the clones about arrogance.

 

 

 

Yoda: The council is confident in its decision, Obi-Wan.

Mace Windu: The boy has exceptional skills.

Obi-Wan: But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him... well arrogant.

Yoda: Yes. Yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones

Edited August 6, 2012 by ScarletBlaze

[Maaruin]

Six Jedis that were arrogant and overconfident in their abilities, so much so that they underestimated the Bounty Hunter. Their deaths are justified by their arrogance lol which would make their deaths quite canon if they planned on writing a novel about the Bounty Hunter.

 

Yeah, that's okay in a way. But then we have another problem: If all Jedi are presented that way in the BH storyline, people start thinking that's normal for Jedi. I know this happened with the Sith Warrior Story. You face a group of Jedi around a Master who secretly fell to the dark side, and many players use this as evidence that Jedi are hypocrits.

 

Jedi are horribly misrepresented in the Sith Warrior and Bounty Hunter Story, and I guess the authers made it that way for the players convenience. I hope they don't think that Jedi really are like that.

[Charon]

Yeah, that's okay in a way. But then we have another problem: If all Jedi are presented that way in the BH storyline, people start thinking that's normal for Jedi. I know this happened with the Sith Warrior Story. You face a group of Jedi around a Master who secretly fell to the dark side, and many players use this as evidence that Jedi are hypocrits.

 

Jedi are horribly misrepresented in the Sith Warrior and Bounty Hunter Story, and I guess the authers made it that way for the players convenience. I hope they don't think that Jedi really are like that.

 

 

To be honest, the jedis in the Bounty Hunter story were more believable than the ones in the sith warrior one. Even among jedis there will always be arrogant ones, even roleplayers tend to roleplay an arrogant Jedi.

[Maaruin]

To be honest, the jedis in the Bounty Hunter story were more believable than the ones in the sith warrior one. Even among jedis there will always be arrogant ones, even roleplayers tend to roleplay an arrogant Jedi.

 

Yeah, that's true, I guess. (Haven't played Bounty Hunter so far, and only watched two of these confrontations on youtube.) But the BH has an insane amount of luck to only come across these kinds of Jedi.

 

Hm, is it that way? Most roleplayers who RP Jedi I have met didn't play them as arrogant.

 

Edit: The roleplayers who played arrogant Jedi had Imperials as their mains... coincidence?

Edited August 6, 2012 by Maaruin

[BradTheImpaler]

You may defend BioWare, but let me point to the end of the Bounty Hunter storyline,(SPOILERS) he kills, what? six Jedi Knights? all at the same time, in-fact IIRC one or two of them are Jedi Masters.

 

Obsidian got it right, when Atton stated that Darth Revan knew the soldiers didn't matter, they were just cannon fodder, the war would be won by whoever had the most Jedi/Dark Jedi, because they were the only ones who even mattered.

This is possibly repeated by the Exile herself in the tomb of Ludo Kressh,

 

I'm kinda biased because I love the IA story and have yet to play through as a Jedi Consular or Knight, but Atton's opinion does not count as canon/fact. Still, it's hard to deny that when two non-Force sensitive armies are at a standstill, (or where the Republic is losing---badly) the deciding factor becomes which side has the strongest Force-sensitives.

 

I have to admit that as much as I enjoyed it, going through the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas and taking down a bunch of lightsaber-wielding, dark side Force-sensitives, and even more defeating "the Eagle" was kind of absurd. Were they all using training lightsabers? Of course lightsabers are 'underpowered' in any Star Wars game due to game mechanics, but the extent of that is stronger in this game than I've seen anywhere so far.

 

That said, Atton himself was part of an elite Sith squad formed to capture and convert (or kill) Jedi. Sure, he was Force-sensitive, but he didn't realize this before travelling with the Exile and he had no real training to use the Force until then. Jedi and Sith have both doomed themselves by ignoring non-Force sensitives, as well (Remember who Han Solo shot in the back?).

 

For the record, what the Exile 'may' have said was "The only casualties that mattered in that war were Jedi. Now march."---but you get dark-side points for this, of course.

Edited August 6, 2012 by BradTheImpaler

[TheBetty]

It just doesn't come across as difficult as some people are saying to take down a Jedi. When Order 66 was executed, so many Jedi got jumped quite easily. Fair enough it wasn't a face to face fight. However you could see that by the time a lot of them realised what was happening, it was too late.

 

You can still boast being a Jedi killer, even if you shot him the back.

[Maaruin]

I have to admit that as much as I enjoyed it, going through the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas and taking down a bunch of lightsaber-wielding, dark side Force-sensitives, and even more defeating "the Eagle" was kind of absurd. Were they all using training lightsabers? Of course lightsabers are 'underpowered' in any Star Wars game due to game mechanics, but the extent of that is stronger in this game than I've seen anywhere so far.

 

I think outside of game mechanics, the Agent shot them before they could reach him. Since the were not in clear mind and all still apprentices or acolytes, it should be possible.

 

And the Eagle... I haven't played it, but I've heard the the story shows it as a very difficult fight with lot's of preparation.

[ScarletBlaze]

Yeah, that's true, I guess. (Haven't played Bounty Hunter so far, and only watched two of these confrontations on youtube.) But the BH has an insane amount of luck to only come across these kinds of Jedi.

 

Hm, is it that way? Most roleplayers who RP Jedi I have met didn't play them as arrogant.

 

Edit: The roleplayers who played arrogant Jedi had Imperials as their mains... coincidence?

 

With regard to the roleplayers I would say it would depend on the person. Some can be quite arrogant and then some won't. But then again you will find arrogance in all professions not just jedi.

[AshlaBoga]

They've been trained. Just really really poorly.

 

The best person to train you to fight a force user is... a force user.

 

That's why HK-47 came up with his recommendations of poison gas, and use innocents as meatbag shields (against Jedi), because Revan was actually giving him good suggestions.

 

A Force sensitive is the best person to train Troopers, Operations, Smugglers and Bounty Hunters to kill other Force sensitives.

[Maaruin]

With regard to the roleplayers I would say it would depend on the person. Some can be quite arrogant and then some won't. But then again you will find arrogance in all professions not just jedi.

 

Well, not the persons were arrogant. They were pretty nice. It's about the Jedi they RPed. I have met very few who RPed their Jedi as arrogant as the Jedi shown in the BH story. But those who did had imperial mains. (As I said, Jedi are missrepresented in the imperial stories, at least SW and BH. But that's another topic.)

 

But I haven't met enough to make it statisitcally relevant.

[TheBetty]

They've been trained. Just really really poorly.

 

The best person to train you to fight a force user is... a force user.

 

That's why HK-47 came up with his recommendations of poison gas, and use innocents as meatbag shields (against Jedi), because Revan was actually giving him good suggestions.

 

A Force sensitive is the best person to train Troopers, Operations, Smugglers and Bounty Hunters to kill other Force sensitives.

 

That would explain why Imperial Guard are soo good at it

Edited August 6, 2012 by TheBetty
spelling

[Charon]

Well, not the persons were arrogant. They were pretty nice. It's about the Jedi they RPed. I have met very few who RPed their Jedi as arrogant as the Jedi shown in the BH story. But those who did had imperial mains. (As I said, Jedi are missrepresented in the imperial stories, at least SW and BH. But that's another topic.)

 

But I haven't met enough to make it statisitcally relevant.

 

Oh nah I've dealt with some people roleplaying arrogant jedis that didn't play any empire characters. I couldn't tell the difference between their jedi and sith characters though, so I assume it was people that weren't really knowledgeable in how Jedis usually act. Specially certain spammers before the game was out, attacking sith characters in their profile comments.. eventually turning into insults.

[fellblade]

You guys have hit upon something interesting and it has made me think about why I have a certain dissatisfaction about the game....

 

The Following reasons are entirely PERSONAL so I expect most to disagree....

But Ultimately as a Jedi/Sith I don't feel powerful enough to be who the Story says I am... As a non force user I think it works a lot better for them immersion wise.

 

People have their differing reasons for liking Star Wars - I like lots of things about it - The lived in Universe, The Planets, The Dogfighting style of Space Combat..... But Ultimately my favourite thing about Star Wars are the Jedi/Sith and the Force - to me they are what makes Star Wars that bit different form other Sci Fi franchises as well as appealing to the fantasy genre loving side of me also (best of both worlds)

 

The First thing that actually ruins my immersion (believe it or not) are companions... I like them as part of a Story Element - I would be happy for them to be on my ship etc - But I want to actually face my Foes alone - needing a companion takes away immersion for me and taints my victories (perhaps this is a petty way of thinking).....If they did something where similarly to diplomatic missions - on every planet your companions would be tasked with doing something else for you in the background that would contribute to the overall cause (perhaps they could give you a choice of companion tasks - and whatever task you chose for your companions would give you a different planetary quest chain - which could also improve replayability) - I know a lot of people hate the game - but I would have liked something like Force Unleashed: a Juno Eclipse/ Proxy companion setup, they are part of the Story - but not involved in all your questing/combat.....

 

The Other thing is - the Force User powers - I just feel that every Jedi/Sith class should have Force Push, Force pull and Force Speed as these are just so fundamental (not being able to do all of these as a Darth/Master is flat out sacrilige), then on top of that No matter what weird/outlandish powers they gave them - they would Still feel like a Jedi\Sith (I would probably also give Leap to the Assassin/Shadow) - but this brings up the point of Balancing.....

And as much I as I have enjoyed playing some of them - the fact that Non-Force Users are playable and had to be balanced against Force Users, has detracted a lot from what potentially could have been done with the Jedi/Sith I'm not talking Force Unleashed .....or maybe I am ... I don't know.... but something about this game as a Force user does not feel 'Star Warsy' enough...or I should probably say 'My Star Warsy' enough...

 

As I said before this is Sheer Opinion and is in no way 'Right' except for me personally - but I realise that I am probably still waiting for an MMO that will do a Jedi\Sith to my own satisfaction (Not Hard: Pull, Push, Speed...and No Combat Companions) - I realise that the Game I would want would probably have to be only Jedi vs Sith..... which is a pity as I do like the non-force user classes in this game...but people don't like Alpha Classes which is understandable and fair enough.....

[BradTheImpaler]

I think outside of game mechanics, the Agent shot them before they could reach him. Since the were not in clear mind and all still apprentices or acolytes, it should be possible.

 

Hmm, valid point, but I'm not so sure that would work on a whole horde of them inside the temple itself.

 

And the Eagle... I haven't played it, but I've heard the the story shows it as a very difficult fight with lot's of preparation.

 

Mostly because it's been glitched since the game came out (unless there's been a fix I haven't heard about). I won't spoil it for you, but the Eagle nearly kills Kaliyo before the fight, so when he goes all out you should be no match for him.

[Wolfninjajedi]

That would explain why Imperial Guard are soo good at it

 

Well they are because the Imperial Guard, have some degree force sensitivity with them. (Both the Emperor's and Palpatine's guard.)

Edited August 7, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[HellbirdIV]

Well they are because the Imperial Guard, have some degree force sensitivity with them. (Both the Emperor's and Palpatine's guard.)

 

Palpatine's Imperial Guard had some Force-sensetives but the majority were just elite soldiers, primarily Stormtroopers who excelled in service and were specially trained.

 

The Emperor's Imperial Guard had no Force-sensetives - all Force sensetives are trained to be Sith, the Imperial Guard consist entirely of non-sensetive elite soldiers.

[Charon]

Palpatine's Imperial Guard had some Force-sensetives but the majority were just elite soldiers, primarily Stormtroopers who excelled in service and were specially trained.

 

The Emperor's Imperial Guard had no Force-sensetives - all Force sensetives are trained to be Sith, the Imperial Guard consist entirely of non-sensetive elite soldiers.

 

Wrong they are not trained to be sith, there is only two siths, Palpatine and Vader. The ones that are trained aren't showed the sith arts or anything about the sith they are just taught certain dark side power, so they are mostly dark jedis or used as assassins/agents like Mara Jade.

 

Edit: Ah crap just realize you also meant the emperor from the game sorry haha xD..

Edited August 7, 2012 by Charon

[AceOfHertz]

Qui-Gon: "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him."

 

Anakin: "I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi!"

 

Qui-Gon: "I wish that were so."

 

'Nuff said.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Palpatine's Imperial Guard had some Force-sensetives but the majority were just elite soldiers, primarily Stormtroopers who excelled in service and were specially trained.

 

The Emperor's Imperial Guard had no Force-sensetives - all Force sensetives are trained to be Sith, the Imperial Guard consist entirely of non-sensetive elite soldiers.

 

Hm? The Emperor's guard are force sensitive...or I should say they draw their power from him. So technically, they are force sensitive indirectly.

[TheBetty]

Wrong they are not trained to be sith, there is only two siths, Palpatine and Vader. The ones that are trained aren't showed the sith arts or anything about the sith they are just taught certain dark side power, so they are mostly dark jedis or used as assassins/agents like Mara Jade.

 

Edit: Ah crap just realize you also meant the emperor from the game sorry haha xD..

 

The movie would suggest there were other Sith but Palpatine had them killed. One of the first things that is said in the first movie (IV) 'The Emperor has disolved the council permanently'

 

Back to the game. I believe General Hesker doesn't have any force sensitivty, but he's still one tough mofo

[Charon]

The movie would suggest there were other Sith but Palpatine had them killed. One of the first things that is said in the first movie (IV) 'The Emperor has disolved the council permanently'

 

Back to the game. I believe General Hesker doesn't have any force sensitivty, but he's still one tough mofo

 

 

Hum...that line was about dissolving the senate.

[TheBetty]

Hum...that line was about dissolving the senate.

 

Just had to check lol. So it was haha

 

Threw me off by saying the council had been dissolved >.<

 

But just looking back at that scene, remembering the other movies and comparing to the game. The force is revered in the game, however after Palpatine takes power. The general perception of the force was superstitious crap. Do you think this was his intention from a deep paranioa that an up and coming Sith would dethrone him?

 

Moving away from the topic a bit lol

Edited August 7, 2012 by TheBetty
Information

[Maaruin]

Just had to check lol. So it was haha

 

Threw me off by saying the council had been dissolved >.<

 

But just looking back at that scene, remembering the other movies and comparing to the game. The force is revered in the game, however after Palpatine takes power. The general perception of the force was superstitious crap. Do you think this was his intention from a deep paranioa that an up and coming Sith would dethrone him?

 

Moving away from the topic a bit lol

 

My theory is that this perception of the force was around before Palpatine became Emperor. Since he wanted to exterminate the Jedi completely, after they were gone he supported this view of the force. In the eyes of the public the Jedi were a superstitious cult now, who tried to take over the republic. Removing them was the right choice (in the view of the public).

 

So this was not against Sith, but against the Jedi.

 

The Emperor's Imperial Guard had no Force-sensetives - all Force sensetives are trained to be Sith, the Imperial Guard consist entirely of non-sensetive elite soldiers.

 

I have seen Imperial Guards with lightsabers. I assume it's possible for Sith to become members of the guard.

 

Hmm, valid point, but I'm not so sure that would work on a whole horde of them inside the temple itself.

 

I guess the Temple is less crowded in reality than shown in the game. There are mobs 30 meters away from you who don't see you, so it's likely that the distances were shortened in the game.

 

Mostly because it's been glitched since the game came out (unless there's been a fix I haven't heard about). I won't spoil it for you, but the Eagle nearly kills Kaliyo before the fight, so when he goes all out you should be no match for him.

 

Now I have watched a some videos... since I almost know everything about it already.

 

 

Storywise, you don't defeat him, you only distract him long enough for Watcher 2 to get the rayshields up. That's something a well trained agent could be capable of.

 

here's a video from what looks like a realistic fight. Maybe the bug is fixed, I don't know. I also think Jadus doesn't go all out. He doesn't know what Watcher 2 is trying to do, so he doesn't aim to kill as quickly possible.

Kaliyo's way to attack was dumb.

 

 

The Following reasons are entirely PERSONAL so I expect most to disagree....

But Ultimately as a Jedi/Sith I don't feel powerful enough to be who the Story says I am... As a non force user I think it works a lot better for them immersion wise.

 

You have a point here. But I would prefer it if the story wouldn't set you up as one of the most powerful Sith or Jedi. If you would be just an average Force-user, I think how powerful you are in combat does fit. In this game, one of the big battle droids (elite) can kill you if you are careless, but normally you can handle it. That's believable for an average Jedi.

I wouldn't want to be able to blast through this game like nothing.

 

Obi-Wan, an average Jedi in Episode II, was not that superior to Jango Fett and also not to Droidikas.

 

The First thing that actually ruins my immersion (believe it or not) are companions...

 

You can do it without them. It's more difficult, so better be a few levels ahead or get blue-purple gear. And probably make yourself hybrid specced, that you put out enough damage.

I've often send my companions on missions and was able to play without them.

 

As I said before this is Sheer Opinion and is in no way 'Right' except for me personally - but I realise that I am probably still waiting for an MMO that will do a Jedi\Sith to my own satisfaction (Not Hard: Pull, Push, Speed...and No Combat Companions) - I realise that the Game I would want would probably have to be only Jedi vs Sith..... which is a pity as I do like the non-force user classes in this game...but people don't like Alpha Classes which is understandable and fair enough.....

 

Hmm. Maybe I would like the oposite. I would like to have more non-force using classes. Force users should be something special. Not that special, there are plenty of them in this era, but they shouldn't outnumber non force users at that scale. Well, probably I should do something against it and role trooper or agent, because until now I have only used Jedi and one Sith.

But here you see my problem. I don't like underworld classes, so if I want to play non-sensitive I have to do trooper or agent. Some more options would be nice.

 

I could even see ways to make force users stronger than other characters. But they would be very risky. For example: Double everything. In Warzones, Flashpoints, Raids etc. a Force user would count for two non-Force users. Must quests for Force users had double numbers. Or you would only gain half the experience. (You should be able to do them faster than non-Force users.)

 

Of course this game isn't that way and will never be that way, but I wanted to put my opinion against your's Maybe they aren't that far from each other.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Qui-Gon: "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him."

 

Anakin: "I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi!"

 

Qui-Gon: "I wish that were so."

 

'Nuff said.

 

Exactly. Enough said.

 

That is because unless you are a Jedi, and you personally know other Jedi, you aren't aware of Jedi ever being killed. The normal people and even soldiers in the Republic are more likely to go, "You killed a Jedi? Feh... No way. Jedi can't be killed."