Why do people hate SWTOR, really?

[Briq]

I think we've all heard the expression "learn from your mistakes" well, in business you must also learn from other's successes.. especially in a genre where so much ground has already been covered for you. you can make a very unique game yet still have familiar features.. and it's not the player's fault if they don't.

 

don't call yourself a MMO and not have things like group finder and cross server queues.

don't make a game based on a story rich with conflict and not have a robust pvp system.

 

and if you're disappointed in a product, you should let people that are considering using that product know of your disappointment. because I can assure you, the people selling it will never admit their product's shortcomings to a potential customer.

 

don't blame the people voicing their opinion.. blame the people causing that opinion, and in this case, that's bioware/ea.

[TKMaster]

I truly believe no one hates the game itself, rather what potential it has/had, and how it's fallen WAY short .....

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=514291

 

I believe you mean hype, not potential.

[Jaden]

I'm just hoping more endgame is not cranking out more and more ops and flashpoins and warzones. I want an actual continuation of the story and level cap increase.

 

Sooo... you want your leveling gameplay to continue and you want endgame content to be tapered back... which, would cause more of the subscribers on here to complain MORE about lack of engame content? Are you trying to make it go 100% F2P?

 

And FYI: Endgame IS Ops, Fps, and WZ's, not more levels.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Jaden

[dandamanno]

I tend to blame the games lack of content on the decision to require so much voice acting. They incorporated some really interesting concepts. Decisions affect outcomes, yet had absolutely no decision affecting outcomes.

 

So the lose of the sandbox was suppose to be made up by having a unique story, which content and access to follow decision trees you make, but they where unable to effectively create that layer.

 

They have conversation trees and absolutely zero outcome effects that really are unique to you.

 

Kill, save, taunt. Hero, villian, gray, etc. all had no noticable impact on the story either.

 

You went to the same planets. Had the same conversations. Very little is done. Hell what if I want to be on Malgus team? What about changing teams through decisions?

 

I literally felt dissappointed the most in that aspect. That would have made the road mapped game different.

 

Hate is a strong word. I think the game has a good frame. It needs developers who are strong enough to implement a quest based game with consquences for quest decisions.

 

I fear its to late to see real development since they burned so much cash on voice acting that after seeing it 1 time you spacebar though. It's sad they did that to the aspect of the game they invested so heavily in.

 

And I think this also led to some "hate".

 

We hear Bioware, we hear story focused, decision making, light/dark choices and companions. With all that was it really unrealistic that we would think the story was going to be of ME/Dragon age proportions?

 

But, like you outlined above, it had none of the impact that ME or Dragon Age had when it came to trailblazing your own story. Only thing it did was changed a (meaningless) light dark alignment, and changed your companions affection bar.

[Jorelle]

Many are ex SWG vets bitter that TOR closed down their pice of crap game and now wish TOR would fail so they can take revenge in their minds.

 

im an ex SWGvet and i dont wish TOR would fail. i actually wish that both games would have existed at the same time, well actually they sort of do (SWGemu)

Edited August 1, 2012 by Jorelle

[Crimson_Merc]

So this is something I've been turning over in my head lately, and yesterday's F2P announcement has driven me to ask this out loud (so to speak). Why do people hate SWTOR so much?

 

I love this game. It has great immersion, really awesome class stories, it runs well on my computer (which I wouldn't consider high-end", and BW managed to balance things out so Jedi didn't steam-roll everyone.

 

There are a few things I wish would change (daily quest system, world pvp, and other minor issues), but nothing is really a big enough deal to un-sub for me.

 

So what is the problem? Maybe one of you can enlighten me.

 

How long you got?

 

Now I have been one of the biggest supporters of The Old Republic and that still holds true to today, but I am very displeased with the lack of initial features that should have been in the game at launch. So maybe EA pushed Bioware to release a half finished project or maybe Bioware itself screwed up, but nonetheless I refuse to play a game just feels incomplete. Don't get me wrong, its an awesome game, but I just feel like the game feels incomplete. When you are launching your first MMO you want to get a feel for the market and look at what features other MMOs have and include similar features at launch so people will say "Cool, TOR had this feature at launch and WoW didn't even have it until 4 years after launch, I can't wait to see what they come up with next!" Unfortunately that was never the case and I often found myself questioning Bioware's strategy. Really? A group finder, 6 months after launch? Shouldn't have that been included? Really, no character appearance changes? Really? No way to change your class (advanced class). Really? 7 months after launch and no chat bubbles of any kind which have been included in nearly every single MMO to date. The above is only the tip of the iceberg. Terrible customer service, an abundant amount of bugs, no real updates since launch, virtually no active in game market, and terrible server management are some of the more game breaking and serious problems.

 

It frustrates me, because this game has so much potential, but Bioware and EA are setting themselves up for disaster. Hopefully in a few months I can come back and enjoy a game that is much more completed feeling.

 

I am a huge MMO fan and it pains me to say this, but there are been MMO sequels that well should have just stayed single player games. I loved Warcraft 1-3, but I hated WoW. I loved the KOTOR series, but this game, even though it is good seems just like a mere shadow of its former sequels. Then we get to the Elder Scroll games which are all awesome games, and then... an MMO prequel... I really don't know how I feel about that one.

 

Seriously where is all the content you promised us Bioware? I'll give you this, you guys talk a big game, but when it comes down to it you do the complete opposite of what your customers and fans want.

[Skorz]

Many are ex SWG vets bitter that TOR closed down their pice of crap game and now wish TOR would fail so they can take revenge in their minds.

 

I am an ex SWG player and I don't hold any grudge for SWTOR. Sure I am a bit disappointed how SWTOR ended up but life goes on. Why waste your time on hating when you can waste your time on more productive things?

Edited August 1, 2012 by Skorz

[GalacticKegger]

Internal anguish? Who knows. A person is defined by what they do, how they do it and why they do it. Edited August 1, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Valkirus]

I donot think most who quit hated the game. They were disappointed and felt like it was not worth a sub as a MMO. I really enjoyed playing it as KOTOR 3 and it was worth the cost to do that. As a MMO, is it worth a sub? Not for myself. If I had it do over again, I would have bought the game, played a char to max level and experenced the great story and then canceled my sub. But because of my missplaced trust in BioWare based on thier past record with games, I did the 6 month sub on release. But I have no hate or bitterness to any of them. But I have also learned something which will apply to my furture decisions with games. Live and learn. Edited August 1, 2012 by Valkirus

[CosmicKat]

I donot think most who quit hated the game. They were disappointed and felt like it was not worth a sub as a MMO. I really enjoyed playing it as KOTOR 3 and it was worth the cost to do that. As a MMO, is it worth a sub? Not for myself. If I had it do over again, I would have bought the game, played a char to max level and experenced the great story and then canceled my sub. But because of my missplaced trust in BioWare based on thier past record with games, I did the 6 month sub on release. But I have no hate or bitterness to any of them. But I have also learned something which will apply to my furture decisions with games. Live and learn.

 

I think this post sums up exactly why TOR is in trouble.

 

They built a 3 month game for people wanting a multi-year one.

[Catsmeat]

I have been accused of hating before here. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If you accused me of disappointment, anger, or frustration you'd have been closer to the mark. I think those who toss the "hate" word around have no idea what hatred really is.

 

If I didn't really really like this game in a general sort of way I'd have simply moved on months and months ago. I played this game through six months of beta. This game has such great potential that I keep seeing squandered. As a customer I've never been treated as poorly as I have here as a Bioware customer. For a product I pay for I need to see progress made addressing bugs as time and my money go on.

 

If those accusing others of hate could for just a moment try to read a negative or critical post with an open mind they'd see that most stem from real issues with the game. Try a little empathy, it may broaden your understanding of the world.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Catsmeat

[Kashley]

People are mad because BioWare hyped this game throught the roof. They made grandiose claims like having 50 more planets planned, zones two to three times the size of a WoW zone etc. There was so much false hype that it was a HUGE let down for the fan base when they got to play and realized just how much the game lacked. I also think people are mad because they dont understand how a game with the largest budget in MMO history and a IP like Star Wars attached to it could have missed the mark so hard.

 

Its like the devs decided to build this game with zero idea of what the average MMO gamer wanted. Story was a good idea, but playability was sacraficed on the alter of story. I stand by the fact that if people wanted this much story they would buy a book. Class/companion stories, ok, but they should have taken all the rest of that wasted money on VO and put it into game functionality, upgrading the engine, functionality, mini games, and making the game less linear. The replayability is ****, how many times do I have to storm Castle Panteer and kill Boris Ulgo.... Really....

Edited August 1, 2012 by Kashley

[mavsynchroid]

Trolls....hate anything they do.

 

Plus beyond high expectations. People expected TOR to be the Second Coming or something...everyone wanted "EVERYTHING NOW!!!!!!!" al the time. Very unrealistic playerbase...that is what happened.

 

To be fair, they advertised the game like it would be the Second Coming. I think Bioware itself had very unrealistic ideas on how the game would be, and failed miserable in bringing those ideas to fruition.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the game and play it all the time, but I think it could have been so much more, and Bioware has repeatedly gone with the easy out.

[MajikMyst]

People are mad because BioWare hyped this game throught the roof.

 

Wrong.. We hyped the game.. Not Bioware.. I didn't see a single commercial on Television for this game.. I saw very little advertising.. They didn't hype this game.. We did.. The Star Wars name did.. Bioware actually did very little to hype this game.. I think we came into this with expectations that were a bit out of place.. Some folks wanted a SWG 2.0.. Some wanted it to be as fefined as an 8 year old 3 expansion WOW.. Others wanted other things.. In the end.. We got exactly what Bioware said we would.. Just not what many hoped or expected...

 

I stopped reading your post after the line above.. Sorry.. I just feel that your facts are a little misplaced is all..

[BanthaPooodo]

How long you got?

 

Now I have been one of the biggest supporters of The Old Republic and that still holds true to today, but I am very displeased with the lack of initial features that should have been in the game at launch. So maybe EA pushed Bioware to release a half finished project or maybe Bioware itself screwed up, but nonetheless I refuse to play a game just feels incomplete. Don't get me wrong, its an awesome game, but I just feel like the game feels incomplete. When you are launching your first MMO you want to get a feel for the market and look at what features other MMOs have and include similar features at launch so people will say "Cool, TOR had this feature at launch and WoW didn't even have it until 4 years after launch, I can't wait to see what they come up with next!" Unfortunately that was never the case and I often found myself questioning Bioware's strategy. Really? A group finder, 6 months after launch? Shouldn't have that been included? Really, no character appearance changes? Really? No way to change your class (advanced class). Really? 7 months after launch and no chat bubbles of any kind which have been included in nearly every single MMO to date. The above is only the tip of the iceberg. Terrible customer service, an abundant amount of bugs, no real updates since launch, virtually no active in game market, and terrible server management are some of the more game breaking and serious problems.

 

It frustrates me, because this game has so much potential, but Bioware and EA are setting themselves up for disaster. Hopefully in a few months I can come back and enjoy a game that is much more completed feeling.

 

I am a huge MMO fan and it pains me to say this, but there are been MMO sequels that well should have just stayed single player games. I loved Warcraft 1-3, but I hated WoW. I loved the KOTOR series, but this game, even though it is good seems just like a mere shadow of its former sequels. Then we get to the Elder Scroll games which are all awesome games, and then... an MMO prequel... I really don't know how I feel about that one.

 

Seriously where is all the content you promised us Bioware? I'll give you this, you guys talk a big game, but when it comes down to it you do the complete opposite of what your customers and fans want.

 

This pretty much sums up my feelings exactly. I love the genere and was prepared to put up with the lack of the usual basic MMO parts while it developed, but you have to keep the player base fed or the game will never get the chance to get that far. For me, the low server population and limited group experience meant that I pretty much played a single player game. What updates there were just added fluff that eroded the look and feel of the Star Wars universe (as I see it). Sadly my guild dried up and died as other people felt the same way. I canced my sub today.

Edited August 1, 2012 by BanthaPooodo

[Darkfalstaff]

Those that are mad are emotionally retarded. They have little patience in the attention-deficit MMO space and quickly abandon something for something else for the smallest reasons and vocally (because its the internet and everyone is an expert) complain about it and preach that the next big title is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

They have no perspective and more importantly no desire to wait. Everything must be perfect when they want it and if it's not, they complain. Fickle is an appropriate term.

 

They feign maturity by quoting earnings call statements to support their negativity.

 

Ultimately, they complain because they are emotionally insecure children who feel their popularity and self-worth must be measured by their affiliation with the most popular game in world--the second that game status changes, they switch games and salivate over burning the bridges they crossed to get where they are.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Darkfalstaff

[Kashley]

Wrong.. We hyped the game.. Not Bioware.. I didn't see a single commercial on Television for this game.. I saw very little advertising.. They didn't hype this game.. We did.. The Star Wars name did.. Bioware actually did very little to hype this game.. I think we came into this with expectations that were a bit out of place.. Some folks wanted a SWG 2.0.. Some wanted it to be as fefined as an 8 year old 3 expansion WOW.. Others wanted other things.. In the end.. We got exactly what Bioware said we would.. Just not what many hoped or expected...

 

I stopped reading your post after the line above.. Sorry.. I just feel that your facts are a little misplaced is all..

 

You are off your rocker, they hyped the hell out of this game, E3, ComicCon, Massively articles, weekly video updates, forum, twitters, awards listed, pop up adds on other mmo gaming sites... Its like you had your head in the sand if you missed it. As for not reading my post, you are obviously niave so I dont feel like it was some great loss.

[Merex]

I think more people are frustrated with Bioware/EA's constant empty promises and failures with the game more than the game itself. Since launch, we've been fed nothing but false hope and promises that the game will get better. I'm still waiting...

[GalacticKegger]

If I didn't really really like this game in a general sort of way I'd have simply moved on months and months ago.

Well received. If everyone actually followed that MO the forum environment would be much less toxic. Edited August 2, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Blarpped]

Bioware hyped this game to absolutely insane levels. Where insane hype is usually caused by the fans, here the company played a very large role. They made completely outlandish promises. They used rhetoric to make every type of MMO'ers happy -- things like "sandbox and themepark elements." They continued to do this during the first month, promising that improvements and all this epic content we'd heard about is coming. The community gave Bioware the benefit of the doubt because it was Bioware.

 

Bioware proceeded to mishandle this game in nearly every way possible. Fans started realizing what the game was; an extremely linear themepark with a good storyline. The storyline was great, and even the most ardent hater couldn't really say otherwise, but the story didn't do much for the game. Choices never mattered. The world was static despite what you did. Your story had no impact. Once you were done with the story, you were left with extremely limited and buggy PVE content or an absolute mess of a PVP system.

 

People are angry because Bioware lied through their teeth about this game. They have the most popular IP in the world, tons of source material, 20 years of MMO "history" to study, and experience integrating story into living worlds, and they gave us this. I don't think hate is the right word. I think extreme disappointment is more appropriate.

[Blattan]

Those that are mad are emotionally retarded. They have little patience in the attention-deficit MMO space and quickly abandon something for something else for the smallest reasons and vocally (because its the internet and everyone is an expert) complain about it and preach that the next big title is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

They have no perspective and more importantly no desire to wait. Everything must be perfect when they want it and if it's not, they complain. Fickle is an appropriate term.

 

They feign maturity by quoting earnings call statements to support their negativity.

 

Ultimately, they complain because they are emotionally insecure children who feel their popularity and self-worth must be measured by their affiliation with the most popular game in world--the second that game status changes, they switch games and salivate over burning the bridges they crossed to get where they are.

 

But those that "hate" the game are bringing down the community of the forums.

[danielweberdlc]

So this is something I've been turning over in my head lately, and yesterday's F2P announcement has driven me to ask this out loud (so to speak). Why do people hate SWTOR so much?

 

I love this game. It has great immersion, really awesome class stories, it runs well on my computer (which I wouldn't consider high-end", and BW managed to balance things out so Jedi didn't steam-roll everyone.

 

There are a few things I wish would change (daily quest system, world pvp, and other minor issues), but nothing is really a big enough deal to un-sub for me.

 

So what is the problem? Maybe one of you can enlighten me.

 

Star Wars holds a near and dear place in many peoples hearts - a lot of us grew up with the franchise and have very clear ideas of what Star Wars is, and should be. Feel free to ask Peter Jackson about what he had to deal with over the Lord of the Rings movies - people really care about this stuff.

 

People also had a very different idea, I'm guessing based on the pre-launch interviews and promises, of what the game was going to be like. Many people feel, rightly or wrongly, that the game has not lived up to either its potential or the promises that were made.

 

And some people are jerks.

 

Personally I feel the game has been one huge exercise in cognitive dissonance - a symptom of which is frustration and anger. I've come to the conclusion that marrying a story, with it's associated beginning/middle/end and character development, with a static, unchanging MMO universe just doesn't work.

 

What I was hoping for from BW was some kind of path forward for the game, where more people would play because the game was fun, and not because it was free. I never felt the subscription model was holding the game back, so the announcement just leaves me more confused and upset than happy.

 

BW/EA may make more money, maybe they won't - SWTOR is not LOTRO or DDO, As a player I just don't see how this is going to benefit me, or make the game something more than just another MMO where you grind gear and do dailies ad nauseum.

[WickedDjinn]

You are off your rocker, they hyped the hell out of this game, E3, ComicCon, Massively articles, weekly video updates, forum, twitters, awards listed, pop up adds on other mmo gaming sites... Its like you had your head in the sand if you missed it. As for not reading my post, you are obviously niave so I dont feel like it was some great loss.

 

Some people have blinders on. It has been made very clear that EA intended this game to take a big chunk out of WoW. They were looking to become the dominant MMO, nothing less.

 

To say otherwise is like saying EA wasn't looking to take the crown away from Call of Duty with Battlefield 3.

[WickedDjinn]

Those that are mad are emotionally retarded. They have little patience in the attention-deficit MMO space and quickly abandon something for something else for the smallest reasons and vocally (because its the internet and everyone is an expert) complain about it and preach that the next big title is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

They have no perspective and more importantly no desire to wait. Everything must be perfect when they want it and if it's not, they complain. Fickle is an appropriate term.

 

They feign maturity by quoting earnings call statements to support their negativity.

 

Ultimately, they complain because they are emotionally insecure children who feel their popularity and self-worth must be measured by their affiliation with the most popular game in world--the second that game status changes, they switch games and salivate over burning the bridges they crossed to get where they are.

 

Also, anyone who'd views don't fall in line with my own have some sort of mental defect.

[Kashley]

Some people have blinders on. It has been made very clear that EA intended this game to take a big chunk out of WoW. They were looking to become the dominant MMO, nothing less.

 

To say otherwise is like saying EA wasn't looking to take the crown away from Call of Duty with Battlefield 3.

 

So true. I started going back and looking over old trailers from before release, they intended to try and dethrone WoW and dominate the market. It was why so much money was invested. People have just back peddled faster and faster to justify this hunk of junk that they forgot what it was like pre-launch.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Kashley