Is it really that hard to push a class balance patch before a month time period?

[Derian]

I came in just prior to 1.1 so I was too noob to really know better but from what I understand sorcs were the FOTM at the time.

 

OP however is a matter of opinion most of the time.

 

This is what happened. I started beta in August. ARound that time BW had stated (they actually communicated with us in Beta, and in Georg's own words, the more access people have to the game, the more they would fade away. There ARE players of this game with privledges that include more direct communication with the devs, they just aren't the vast majority of people here for obvious reasons. I'll leave it at that, I dunno if it's supposed to be secret lol) the SI/JC class from what I recall got "fleshed out" before other classes did. At the time of August it did appear OP in comparison to other classes but then they buffed the other ACs to where they wanted them (Except for Sentinel/Marauder their buff came later in beta).

 

People are generally not good as a whole, so everyone thought ranged was OP as hell so naturally Sorcs started to get overplayed. It were these early, crappy beta players that told everyone that eventually came in the weekend that Sorc was OP and to play one, so there was a trickle down into launch of people thinking Sorc was OP.

 

Now I played Sentinel starting around late August. (Or marauder back then). This was before CEntering/GBTF/Rebuke and all that was implemented. Even without these CDs I was still handing Sorcs/Mercs anything that relied on casting their butts on a platter. It was at the point to where any marauder/sentinel who claimed the class wasn't terrible, was accused of trying to sabotage the class or some non sense. I'm not some super awesome player, however people would just come on the beta forums, read about how terribad sentinel is and talk about how OP ranged is. I actually created a Marauder as a joke (there were many char wipes back then and I didn't want to play through what I wanted to be my main initially,a BH). I then realized the potency of the class, and so did other Sentinel/Marauders who pvp'd. We didn't try to keep it a dirty little secret...

 

THE COMMUNITY THAT CLAIMS TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SAID WE WERE FABRICATING THESE FACTS. LOL It was laughable. We were under the NDA and couldn't post pics to the forums even, so I couldn't prove it until they lifted it, and when they lifted it in late beta, people accused me of photoshopping very mediocre numbers. It blew their mind a non Sorc could do well on damage.

 

So why the hell should we listen to the community? Almost everyone in the community thought Sentinel/Marauder was the worse class in the game, and that Sorcs were OP. Nobody with a clue ever thought Sorcs were OP. I'd take off my chest and a few other pieces of armor and run around kicking the crap out of Sorcs out of boredom. They really couldn't deal with the interrupt. Then finally some smarter/better players came and people FINALLY realized Melee (and Vanguard/PT) were not only viable, but potent.

 

Sorcs were FOTM but only because they are easier to play than a melee class. Then when the early, better sentinels and marauders started to tear them up good players who had been lied to before by baddies gave it a shot.

 

Marauder/Sentinel hasn't had any kind of subtantial buff in it's overall ability in PVP since beta, the whole "But other classes got nerfed!" thing is BS. Sentinel took a nerf too in the patch everyone thought they got buffed. You just had to know the class to realize it was a nerf.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Derian

[foxmob]

You mean the defensive abilities they have to keep up ALL the time, to do that damage. A Sent/Maras DPS and survivability are NOT mutually exclusive. They are pure DPS, this means their only reason to survive, is to deal damage. Ergo, if their damage is fine, then their defenses are fine by default. Because if you take away their defense, their damage goes from fine, to less than fine.

 

dude! a watchman sentinal has THREE interrupts. hell, one of those is a channeled STUN. you do dmg while taking NONE. interrupts ARE defenses. and nobody's saying get rid of all DCDs. they - we - are saying you have way too many for a DPS class/spec. you have no business having a god bubble. saber ward? fine. vanish? ok. 3 interrupts? alright. you're in medium armor. 99% dmg reduction? **** that! you're not a tank. you're not supposed to be able to last until a healer gets to you or help comes to your node. your defense is the tank taunting off of you and the healer healing you and you out dpsing your opponent. that's what a dps *should* be. and yeah, that's...like...my opinion, man.

 

edit: I do, btw, think it takes skill to play a sentinal well. I also think a player who knows what he's doing with this class has too many dcds. look at the assault vanguard. comparable dmg. slightly more dmg. far less effective dcds. again...where's their 6s immunity? get rid of that ****. or put it on an obscene cd like 10 mins.

Edited July 31, 2012 by foxmob

[UGLYMRJ]

Derian

 

LOL!!! great post dude... normally as soon as I see that much text I think TL;DR. But I've seen your posts (meaning you're NOT an idiot) and I'm glad I did.... hilarious and not surprising one bit. Sounds like the forums haven't changed much, huh?

Edited July 31, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Derian]

dude! a watchman sentinal has THREE interrupts. hell, one of those is a channeled STUN. you do dmg while taking NONE. interrupts ARE defenses. and nobody's saying get rid of all DCDs. they - we - are saying you have way too many for a DPS class/spec. you have no business having a god bubble. saber ward? fine. vanish? ok. 3 interrupts? alright. you're in medium armor. 99% dmg reduction? **** that! you're not a tank. you're not supposed to be able to last until a healer gets to you or help comes to your node. your defense is the tank taunting off of you and the healer healing you and you out dpsing your opponent. that's what a dps *should* be. and yeah, that's...like...my opinion, man.

 

Two of those three interrupts are contingent on their resolve not being full. Your opinion is poor, sorry to say.

[UGLYMRJ]

Two of those three interrupts are contingent on their resolve not being full. Your opinion is poor, sorry to say.

 

It's true... as a marauder I can assure you that it's very annoying as well.

[Derian]

Derian

 

LOL!!! great post dude... normally as soon as I see that much text I think TL;DR. But I've seen your posts (meaning you're NOT an idiot) and I'm glad I did.... hilarious and not surprising one bit. Sounds like the forums haven't changed much, huh?

 

No they haven't. This is my first MMO since vanilla WoW and I quit that at level 42, though I have been playing MMOs for a long time. These communities are terrible. Typically the accepted hive mind answer for everything is completely wrong, and is a result of bad players making up excuses.

 

I used to say near the end of beta that I could solo any Sorc (as a Sentinel) ever. People thought I was delusional. "There's no way you can take out the mighty Sorc it's so OP the lightning Z****!" and this was a time before people finally realized a Sorc's true power lies in it's CC not it's ability to do damage.

 

Republic Justice was a potent guild in Beta, so it's not like I just somehow only manage to squash the worse pvpers in beta, we had imperial guilds with decent players coming at us. However these decent players weren't on the forums screaming "Nerf Sorc" either.

[foxmob]

Two of those three interrupts are contingent on their resolve not being full. Your opinion is poor, sorry to say.

 

if you're talking about force leap, it's an interrupt and immobilizes. it's not a straight stun. the resolve build doesn't affect the interrupt feature. troll less.

Edited July 31, 2012 by foxmob

[UGLYMRJ]

No they haven't. This is my first MMO since vanilla WoW and I quit that at level 42, though I have been playing MMOs for a long time. These communities are terrible. Typically the accepted hive mind answer for everything is completely wrong, and is a result of bad players making up excuses.

 

I used to say near the end of beta that I could solo any Sorc (as a Sentinel) ever. People thought I was delusional. "There's no way you can take out the mighty Sorc it's so OP the lightning Z****!" and this was a time before people finally realized a Sorc's true power lies in it's CC not it's ability to do damage.

 

Republic Justice was a potent guild in Beta, so it's not like I just somehow only manage to squash the worse pvpers in beta, we had imperial guilds with decent players coming at us. However these decent players weren't on the forums screaming "Nerf Sorc" either.

 

So true! The red highlighted part is exactly how I feel about the forums. I've seen a lot of these people who post... play. Not one above average player from anyone I've seen in game has ever posted or supported a nerf thread. Simple as that.

[UGLYMRJ]

if you're talking about force leap, it's an interrupt and immobilizes. it's not a straight stun. the resolve build doesn't affect the interrupt feature. troll less.

 

As a marauder being my main I can tell you that you are absolutely wrong. I run 10-20 WZ's a night sometimes.

 

This is what happens when resolve is up on the two abilities.

 

1. Force Leap: You leap but you get no interrupt nor do you get the immobilize effect

2. Force Choke: You get the damage but you do not get the interrupt nor do you actually hold the player in place.

 

He's not trolling... he's informing.

 

I can see why on paper what you said makes a lot of sense and honestly... never really thought about it. But I can tell you from experience... and a lot of it. That what I said above is true.

Edited July 31, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[criminalheretic]

dude! a watchman sentinal has THREE interrupts. hell, one of those is a channeled STUN. you do dmg while taking NONE. interrupts ARE defenses. and nobody's saying get rid of all DCDs. they - we - are saying you have way too many for a DPS class/spec. you have no business having a god bubble. saber ward? fine. vanish? ok. 3 interrupts? alright. you're in medium armor. 99% dmg reduction? **** that! you're not a tank. you're not supposed to be able to last until a healer gets to you or help comes to your node. your defense is the tank taunting off of you and the healer healing you and you out dpsing your opponent. that's what a dps *should* be. and yeah, that's...like...my opinion, man.

 

edit: I do, btw, think it takes skill to play a sentinal well. I also think a player who knows what he's doing with this class has too many dcds. look at the assault vanguard. comparable dmg. slightly more dmg. far less effective dcds. again...where's their 6s immunity? get rid of that ****. or put it on an obscene cd like 10 mins.

 

When they sit 30m away hitting 5 people who are trying to interrupt caps, with Mortar Volley. That's their immunity. Sents can't do that.

[Helistin]

Give them time; they're trying to figure out what the next concealment operative nerf is.

 

I suggest taking away stealth.

[Pizzel]

Yea lots of blame goes on the player base for a lot of stupid stuff in beta they said we didnt need. Cross server pvp for one. Devs shouldn't have listened to that playerbase garbage.

 

Anyway the day has come. This game will start the F2p cycle soon. So sad. In a matter of 8 months this game has crashed and burned too much.

 

For most of it I blame BW/EA. The game was not ready, didnt have the mmo features and proper pvp testing it needed.

Lack of cross server stuff, too much pointless voice acting, ridiculous class balancing issues. The list can keep going.

 

If its fact or not BW seemed over their head even before launch. Seemed like no plan or failsafe.

 

Really sad. With this Ip we could have had a gigantic game to last for years. Heck maybe F2p will inject life but its a very tough thing to pull off.

 

We can argue what needs to be nerfed or not but the fact that matters is BW blew a chance at greatness. Can it be saved?? Who really knows now.

[Morrolan]

Yup more QQing, but it's pretty obvious they need one for certain classes. They failed to make any viable class changes in the last patch besides nerfing sins and shadows. I think nerfing only 1 class per balance attempt is the way to go, but they could at least attempt to buff up multiple classes that need it. They really screwed up with 1.2 imo, and they fail to admit or fix it.

 

IMO Bioware have gone about the balance changes wrong. They do a major balance change every patch, what they should be doing are minor balance tweaks every 2 weeks or a month.

[Pizzel]

IMO Bioware have gone about the balance changes wrong. They do a major balance change every patch, what they should be doing are minor balance tweaks every 2 weeks or a month.

 

Agree completely. Why let issues just brew until explosion. For example why nerf armor and self healing for sins by huge amounts in 1 patch ?? ***. Why not start with just self heals or armor and go from there. Or how bout lower armor pen or crit chance of rail shot a tiny bit first. But nope. .. They will neuter the class even tho thats not what anybody wants.

 

Rift had and still has major issues but one thing they got right was churning out a lot of content and balancing patches even in hotfixes. What are they doing with all this downtime at bioware?? Playing Wow or cell phone games ?? Some of the changes that should be made are just numbers for abilities and talents!! If it takes 3 months to lower self healing numbers or armor pen than no wonder this game is going F2P

[SajPl]

Balance can only be achieved by :

1. buffing marauders

2. nerfing everything else

[Pizzel]

Balance can only be achieved by :

1. buffing marauders

2. nerfing everything else

 

Dont forget to nerf operatives .... They stunlocked this game to F2p...

[Daiyukie]

Give them time; they're trying to figure out what the next concealment operative nerf is.

 

I wonder what they'll come up with? Remove the DoT portion of Acid Blade?

[Derian]

if you're talking about force leap, it's an interrupt and immobilizes. it's not a straight stun. the resolve build doesn't affect the interrupt feature. troll less.

 

I'm not a troll, I thought you were referring to force choke and awe. Yes force leap is an interrupt.

 

I like how you are a troll if someone disagrees with you.

[Derian]

So true! The red highlighted part is exactly how I feel about the forums. I've seen a lot of these people who post... play. Not one above average player from anyone I've seen in game has ever posted or supported a nerf thread. Simple as that.

 

It's hard for me to fathom because I went from being a baddie clicker in this game, to actually being half way decent in the course of a year. (As I mentioend I have little experience with games with the WoW style GUI). However rather than making excuses for when I did poorly, I read into it. I adjusted things like my keybinds, and I just played more. Being melee in this game pretty much requires you to have good practices, keybinding, limiting your backpeddaling, quick reaction time etc. I paid attention to good Sentinels/Marauders (Thanks Xerain!) early on, and I emulated what I saw work.

 

Another problem is people can't help but to relate this game to others, especially WoW. Anytime someone says "Such and such class is like a WoW Rogue" 9 times out of 10, their thinking is too narrow to be any good at anything but WoW. Open your eyes. People wanted a break from the typical Trinity, but when healers can put out some DPS, and DPS have some defensive cooldowns they lose their ****. lol.

[Bbizzle]

Give them time; they're trying to figure out what the next concealment operative nerf is.

 

backstab ----> 45 second cooldown and -10% damage. Just for he Luls.

[fungihoujo]

It's bioware's way of telling you to learn 2 play.

 

More like BW's way of telling you to 'free 2 play'.

 

OH SNAP *****ES, that's right, **** just got real. Good job BW cutting your playerbase in half with a single ****** patch. They got NGE on 1.2, that has to be some kind of new *********** record for fastest **** up of a AAA title with a successful launch.

[beepee]

You mean the defensive abilities they have to keep up ALL the time, to do that damage. A Sent/Maras DPS and survivability are NOT mutually exclusive. They are pure DPS, this means their only reason to survive, is to deal damage. Ergo, if their damage is fine, then their defenses are fine by default. Because if you take away their defense, their damage goes from fine, to less than fine.

 

I feel as though this pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to sorc/sage. The potential to put up big numbers is there(I've seen a sage that was basically allowed to free cast for the entire game put up 690k damage, 200k healing in voidstar post 1.3) however the survivability that would allow the to reach this potential is obsolete.

[warultima]

Yup more QQing, but it's pretty obvious they need one for certain classes. They failed to make any viable class changes in the last patch besides nerfing sins and shadows. I think nerfing only 1 class per balance attempt is the way to go, but they could at least attempt to buff up multiple classes that need it. They really screwed up with 1.2 imo, and they fail to admit or fix it.

 

It's totally unreasonable. It's too much work for BiowarEA.

[Skylancewalker]

There is a reason u see the good teams with 2+ Powertechs because they are super easy to play, have taunts throw out the best damage and have good utility. People who say all the classes are balanced have the OP classes and dont want their pewpew to go away so they can continue to faceroll.

[Uggen]

 

 

So above you just said that balance is based on statistics, now you are saying that balance in a matter of opinion? These are two conflicting things, so which is it?

 

In this case, no. It's not conflicting. They fit hand in glove. The matter of opinions is what makes the statistics. So most people say it's fine. Well, their opinion makes up for majority of the people that were asked. Wich means that statisticly the game balance is fine. (If you actually were dumb enough to use that as a valid reason to figure out wether it's fine or not.) Personally i do not agree with his opinions. I think it's completely wrong. Just wanted to point this out. There's an old saying that says "The majority is always wrong, the minority is rarely correct."

Well, it's obvious this is the case. One would be pretty blind if you couldn't see this game need a class balance patch pretty ASAP.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Uggen