Clarification on F2P?

[mavsynchroid]

First off, welcome to MMO forums, if this is the first time you've seen whiny kids, it must be. Second off, F2P isn't great because EA is evil, and they will start to charge RL money, and this game will just turn into Runescape with lightsabers. Free to play might sound like a great idea, but not only would they start charging money for important garbage, they will start going even slower on updates due to lack of motivation from the devs. EA is full of idiots, and if they really think F2P is the way to go, then I hope they never get another cent.

 

I may have misread, but where did he say it was the first time he's seen whiny kids? He's just asking why people are upset about this.

[Sarfux]

Why is f2p hated you ask? Quite simple really.

 

It challenges people's moral principles in their mind and keeps questioning if it's really free...tis the principal that matters. People do not like to be challenged within their own minds.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

In the case of LOTRO Turbine calls their pay model "Freemium". Hog wash! They should call it "Freeloaders Play and Subbers pay".

 

And I agree...SWTOR goes f2p....I don't play.

 

Wrong, the term "Freemium" in Lotro was used back before F2P launched to describe the 2 types of free players (i.e. those without a sub or lifetime). "Free" players have never spent any money and "Premium" players have bought TP in the past, for doing so they get some benefits (higher limits on characters per sever, gold per character etc). "Freemiums" are players who are not VIPs.

 

Turbine calls their pay model "Hybrid F2P". Other people call it "Freemium".

Edited July 24, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[cshouston]

Not to be whiteknighting or anything, but they release patches much more faster than WoW. Perhaps because SWTOR is a themepark and WoW is a sandbox, but still. At least they're getting stuff done.

 

Ah-whaaaaaaaaat?

[Jjix]

Why is f2p hated you ask? Quite simple really.

 

It challenges people's moral principles in their mind and keeps questioning if it's really free...tis the principal that matters. People do not like to be challenged within their own minds.

 

This ^^

 

Free to play is the future of online gaming, whether conservative gamers like it or not. The reason for this is because the commodity in the world of gaming is no longer money, it's time and interest. TIME is god now, we just don't have time to play everything we want to play. Even if you could quit your job, strap a toilet to your *** and feed yourself intravenously, you wouldn't have enough time to even enjoy a fraction of the options that are available to us. Even if we had all the money to be able to afford every subscription fee and every game out, we wouldn't have time to play them all. This means games have to compete for our time, and the more time we give a certain game, the more precious commodity that game is gaining. Games, using the serial payment system, have been utterly wasting this precious commodity. Using the pay to play model it doesn't matter if someone plays 20 hours a day, or 15 minutes. The hardcore gamer, who should be more valuable as a customer, is utterly being wasted under the pay to play model. A revenue model needs to be developed that takes advantage of the amount of time customers are giving a game, and f2play is a step in that direction.

 

The key to an online game is the feeling that this game is the place to be, that it has excitement, energy, constant INTEREST . . . in short, lots of people paying attention to it and devoting a part of their lives to it. Then it grows, and the more it grows the more other people become interested and thus the more it grows and on and on. This is why success for an online game is exponential, why a game like WoW enjoys such a disproportionate share of the market. Everyone thinks WoW is the place to be, and because everyone thinks that they are right! Wow uses a subscription model because that is the way things have always run, but the world is changing.

 

The fact is games need to follow the model of facebook and google, companies that understand energy and attention lead to money, regardless of whether they can figure out a revenue model at the moment. People said Amazon was going to fail because their costs outweighed their revenue. But what they took a larger view than short term gain, and now they are virtually redefining the economics of retail.

 

In 20 years games are going to be so ubiquitous in our lives, from education to entertainment, the idea of paying to play is going to seem bizarre. The pay to play model is just dated. Why should I pay for an average game when an amazing game is being offered for free? That's the place to be!

[SirRobin]

That's quite irrational, there are many games with free2play or buy2play models that are not pay2win

 

I'm not sure why you would think it irrational. The "subscription versus microtransaction" debate has gone on for years. The topic lasted for years on this board, before the wipe. Unless you seriously think EA would make TOR completely F2P? Hehe... So we would likely be looking at some sort of microtransaction cash shop setup.

 

Selling purely "cosmetic" items would be one thing. However, as soon as you start selling items that affect in-game stats, its a slippery slope from branded F2P becoming P2W. A major point of P2P comes back to in-game stats being reliant on in-game effort. Once you let out-game, "real money" significantly alter in-game stats, then the competitive environment is compromised.

 

Granted, there comes a point where the active population becomes so small that the competitive environment of MMORPG's is minimized to the point of being... well, pointless. DDO coming to mind. However, I don't think TOR's "active" population has fallen anywhere near that low.

Edited July 24, 2012 by SirRobin

[Halfadozen]

Rumour has it that the team that make SWTOR are breaking away from BW/EA in order to ensure that their MMO survives. They've said that there may be less content updates, but there will be concentration on combat/skill rotations, with a focus on reintroducing world PvP based on a LOTRO format.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Rumour has it that the team that make SWTOR are breaking away from BW/EA in order to ensure that their MMO survives. They've said that there may be less content updates, but there will be concentration on combat/skill rotations, with a focus on reintroducing world PvP based on a LOTRO format.

 

There is no world PvP in LoTRO.

[ripster]

Rumour has it that the team that make SWTOR are breaking away from BW/EA in order to ensure that their MMO survives. They've said that there may be less content updates, but there will be concentration on combat/skill rotations, with a focus on reintroducing world PvP based on a LOTRO format.

Which MMO is this team taking? SWTOR? If EA/BW would even let someone take that kind of property away would be astonishing, to think Lucas Arts would sit back and watch it happen is laughable.

[Halfadozen]

There is no world PvP in LoTRO.

 

Sorry, area PvP. The Ettenmoors.

[kitsinni]

The entire world is fillied with useless rich D-bags that walk through everything in life because they have money. We play games to get away from that part of real life. If the game becomes another aspect of life where if you are rich you can get all the best stuff with no effort then I will simply quit and find another game.

 

Would you play Monopoly with someone if they could buy more game money when they ran out of money? How is it hard for people to understand that we want a game that is played based on game rules where giving extra money doesn't change the game or rules?

 

What is next, in poker you can but a few Ace's just to have in case you don't get good cards?

In chess are you going to buy a few extra Queens, heck why not just buy all queens who needs pawns?

 

Maybe we should even take it a step further and just sell screenshots that say you won?

[Hunny_Bun]

I find it very difficult to believe that rational people would argue in favour of F2P.

 

CEOs and suits love F2P because they know they can make more revenue per player (not less).

[Fornix]

The entire world is fillied with useless rich D-bags that walk through everything in life because they have money. We play games to get away from that part of real life. If the game becomes another aspect of life where if you are rich you can get all the best stuff with no effort then I will simply quit and find another game.

 

Would you play Monopoly with someone if they could buy more game money when they ran out of money? How is it hard for people to understand that we want a game that is played based on game rules where giving extra money doesn't change the game or rules?

 

What is next, in poker you can but a few Ace's just to have in case you don't get good cards?

In chess are you going to buy a few extra Queens, heck why not just buy all queens who needs pawns?

 

Maybe we should even take it a step further and just sell screenshots that say you won?

 

The thing is, that argument is two-sided. As currently it's the unemployed 'd-bags' to stick to your terms who have the advantage. Like playing monopoly against someone who has the time to play 10 rounds whilst you can only do one. So as someone who work 60-70 hours a week, I cannot get away from the fact that I'm getting handicapped on time.

 

And that doesn't indicate that I'd wabt a win button in pvp or raids. But I too want to take on some fancy looking gor for social occasions, for example the black space pilot outfit, without having the time to grind space missions for 30 hours.

[Valkirus]

Sorry, area PvP. The Ettenmoors.

 

That is nothing unique to LOTRO. WoW has it with thier Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, etc.

 

LOTRO however does have one of the best FTP models around. It has a sub if you wish to go that route ( 9.99 per mo ) and enjoy no restrictions. The FTP is not a free trial, as it also allows you to have up to 5 chars and you can level them up to as a min to level 50. Free to download also, not like GW2 which you have to buy the game to play it free. There are several different models of FTP out there. Comparing one like it is the way all FTP's are, is wrong.

[Gunju]

I pray SWTOR goes F2P with the option to still pay a sub. That way when all these crying little *Bleep* babies , whine some more about useless crap that's been said a million times over. We can say , **** and leave, it's free ! BW didn't force you to pay or play . And, we wont have to read about some insane babble from some person that thinks their GIANT, HUGE life changing amount of 15 dollars , grants them access as BW new's reporter, dev and GOD himself .

 

Please EA ! Make SWTOR free to play !

[SirRobin]

Which MMO is this team taking? SWTOR? If EA/BW would even let someone take that kind of property away would be astonishing, to think Lucas Arts would sit back and watch it happen is laughable.

 

Yeah, I have a hard time imagining Lucas Arts signing off on that. I would expect them to kill TOR, like they did with SWG, before letting it spin off to a smaller company that might default on their licensing fees.

[Spatology]

There is no clarification needed.

 

There have been no comments regarding F2P other then the free trial to level 15. Anything else is conjecture and false information.

 

This thread should have honestly been closed.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Spatology

[DaWaffle]

Neither actually. My problem is having to pick and choose which elements of the game are worth paying for. It's much nicer to just have a plain 15$ a month that I don't really have to think about.

[Fornix]

Neither actually. My problem is having to pick and choose which elements of the game are worth paying for. It's much nicer to just have a plain 15$ a month that I don't really have to think about.

 

It may be easier, but determining yourself where you put your money is for a company the best identifier on as to what sort of content players may actually be interested in, and steer development into that way.

[Radzkie]

No matter how much I like this game, if it becomes Pay to Win then I'm out. I've already had my fill of those kind of MMO's.

 

If you argue for F2P, either you're willing to spend a **** ton of money, you're naive enough to believe that SWTOR wouldn't exploit their costumers, or you haven't played that many MMO's. It's as simple as that.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Radzkie

[Wraiven]

I do not understand this f2o hatred. Every major subscription-based game that has gone F2P in the past (DDO, LOTRO come to mind) has maintained their subscription model as an option. I am confused as to the hatred of this model simply because the option still exists - if you still want to pay to get the full benefits of the product, then keep paying the subscription fee!

 

There are a couple of things that I see people can dislike about this option. Perhaps some of you can clarify:

 

1. EA does not offer a 15.95/mo subscription option;

2. The SWTOR community is damaged by an influx of immature 12-year-olds.

 

So, those who dislike this option, do your reasons for dislike fall within one of these two categories, or does it stem from something else?

 

Jon

 

 

You know what, I get so sick of watching people like you come to these forums and act as though the people who hate F2P have no reason to hate them and are just simply /cry.

 

Just by saying this, you prove to me how inexperienced you are with MMO's that were once P2P and have become F2P.

 

What happens is, even if you stay a paying customer, you get nothing for it. Nothing. If they come out with some cool fluff, you still have to pay for it. So not only are you paying a monthly sub, you have to pay for that cool piece of fluff as well. Content comes to a screeching halt, because the Devs spend all their time working on fluff and not content. The paying customer gets pushed aside while the F2P customers get put up on a pedestal.

 

I have been there and done that with four games. City of Heroes, Star Trek Online, Champions Online and Age of Conan Online. I was there when they were P2P and I left after giving it time after they went F2P. So don't go blowing smoke up my *** and tell me I am /crying. Until you have been there and dealt with being thrown on the back burner as a paying customer, don't come here looking for any sympathy from me.

[Selvec]

I've played Free 2 Play before on LOTRO and APB. I didn't enjoy it. For some reason F2P attract a lot of immature screaming players, as well as a heck of a lot of hackers. Both usually go hand in hand.

 

I'd rather not see that happen. If they have to raise the price to $40 a month to compensate, I'll happily pay. But SWTOR doesn't need the kind of players that come with F2P.

[Hxxr]

Those that like F2P games usually don't pick subscription games ... and vice versa.

 

It's just a preference and I might even not have chose SW:ToR if it was F2P (which is a quite misleading label in almost all cases).

[Radzkie]

F2P ALWAYS ends up being more expensive than P2P unless the P2P has a cash shop to buy items with real money.

[Atho_UK]

Hmm F2P maybe they will maybe they won't but there is no smoke without fire...maybe

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/24/hyperspace-beacon-its-time-for-free-to-play-swtor/