Class Feedback

[Raczo_liga]

SCOUNDREL - HEAL and DPS SPEC

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

ANSWER: I see myself perceived as a decent dps class, though not really a ranged dps class (many abilities must be used at 10m or closer for maximum dps). Healing spec is perceived as substandard to a Sage.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

ANSWER: I consider the dps specs of Scoundrel to be fun. I LOVE the DoTs of Dirty Fighting, and enjoy the heck out of it. I primarily run healing spec on my Scoundrel, and while it is effective, and capable enough in its own way, it falls short of Sage healing in larger groups. I have to struggle many times to stay up with the healing when crunch time happens. The lack of an 8-person group heal is a HUGE problem when it comes to Operations. The lack of a heal that I can hit someone with while moving is also something I see as a problem.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Raczo_liga

[varoncodebot]

1.We scoundrels REALLY are under powered. survivability and dps are not too high.We becoming like(guerrilla troops)

2. i am a scoundrel lvl 46 and i really think the spec scrapper (which i am using could have one more move, considering the fact that flying fists isn't really a "move" that u click on.

[j-cart]

SawBones

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PvP: Overpowered and has the ability to keep multiple people healed while on the move. Supposedly impossible to solo kill.

 

PvE: Can heal, but operation groups would much would rather have a Sage.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PvP: I certainly can keep people healed, the way I refer to it as being able to "top off" but trying to save a person at 30% life is not an easy task. The risk I take is to use up my energy with my heavy heals, Underworld Medicine and Kolto Pack. This also puts me at risk because I must stop to cast these abilities. I also need to manage my Upper Hand combo ability as well, because if run into a problem and I need to get off some Emergency Medpacs. The rotation for a tough healing Scoundrel is there, but we are not unstoppable.

 

PvE: Kolto Cloud has some odd hits. Says we get a 30m range, but it always seems to miss someone every now and then. Agree with most operation groups, we just can't bring people back to life from some of the harder hitting bosses. Having a set that gives us a better energy buff would help, +5 to max energy doesn't mean much. We need something to help us with the energy regeneration during those longer battles. Scanning during a boss just doesn't cut it.

 

 

Scrapper

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Pre-50: OP because we can kill fast and we do it from stealth. It is extremely cheap to them because they can't see me.

 

@50: Why would I have you on my team? Being called a DPS class is a disgrace to real DPS classes.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Pre-50: We can kill fast in the pre-50 WZs because nobody has any HP even with the WZ buff. Also factor in the lack of character skills (and stealth detection) and it all falls into place. Give me a lone person at any HP without some sort of shield skill buff on and they are dead before the can realize it.

 

@50: Everyone is skilled out with ways to shield from the initial Shoot First skill. Even with a Flechette Round assist, most of the time our Shoot First is nulled. This forces us to find people that are low on health, but when you face someone that is geared out, even 50% HP might not be low enough to open against them. Originally our Shoot First had an extremely long knock down time which was correct to fix, but getting nothing to additional damage in returned hurt us. Having long cooldowns also prevents us from getting back into a fight. When we appear from stealth we should be feared because we can end that person right then and there. The problem is that we are not a threat even in stealth. How can we play our class when our whole rotation requires stealth and players are able to easily hunt us during our stealth? This forces us to use our Sneak skill, but with a short buff time and long cooldown we can never really sneak around effectively. Having some sort of additional damage, knock down time, or null shields when using Shoot First (with Flechette Round) while using the Sneak skill will at least give us something to work with. Having Sneak on a cooldown prevents us from being able to kill all the time, but when we need that one kill we should at least be able to really deal it out. This would at least let us come closer to that Burst DPS PvP killer that we all really want to be.

[Vyndrodis]

Level 50 Sawbones Scoundrel

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

I feel that sawbones is seen as kind of a mid line healer in PvE with the list going Field Medic Commando<Sawbones Scoundrel<Seer Sage.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I think my spec is kind of sub-par from what it should be for AoE heals. Our Kolto Cloud is an ability that can be way too random in an operations group since it can only get its effect on 4 people,(3 at random, one target) which can cause some problems where the group is bundled closer together and you cannot get the heal on either everybody or a select few people who are lower health than the rest. I have seen from fights such as Stormcaller and Firebrand in EC that you will fail healing stormcaller compared to a sage healer with the same gear because our Kolto Cloud doesn't seem to heal nearly as much as Salvation having a 10 sec duration compared to our 6 second duration for double destruction and just general damage on the group. Our primary heals also tend to starve us on energy if we really need to get people's health up after a big hit on the group or tank since Underworld Medicine costs 25/100 of your energy, Kolto Pack costs 20/100 as well as 1/possible 3 stacks of Upper Hand. We seem to have quite a restricted resource (not nearly as much as commando healers) which we only have a few ways to regain it which all take time except for popping cool head which you can only do 2-3 times per fight depending on which one it is. Pugnacity only does so much for the fact that you have to use atleast 15/100 energy to get it to proc (off of slow release medpac) which then may mess up your healing to pop someone up with Emergency Medpac or Kolto Pack. I also feel that we lack the utility that sage healers have with shields, strong AoE heals, and decent single target heals where we have strong single target heals, heals over time, and mild AoE heals.

[Aerich]

Speaking as a Heal spec'd PvE Scoundrel:

 

1. I think we all know how Scoundrel's are viewed by others.. overpowered FotM jerks who ruin the fun of everyone around them. Of course this rep is entirely from PvP issues and not all of it is valid but the stigma remains.

 

2. When I'm the tank focused healer I feel strong and in control, when I'm solo healing Flashpoints I feel the opposite. I have no proactive heals (like force armour or trauma probe) and so all healing is reactionary and keeping up with group healing is very unfun. Slow Release Medpac is time consuming and energy intense when using on multiple people and I HATE the Upper Hand mechanic - healing by the whim of RNG is horrible and tends to run either as feast of famine in my experience. Also I would like to see a reduction or elimination of less energy = less regen mechanic for healers. Overall as tank healer I feel as good or better than the other healing choices but in group healing situations I feel very sub-par to downright sucky.

[yanilen]

Scrapper:

 

1) Positive things:

• "Dissapearing Act" + "Tranquilizer" =)
  
• "Triage" ability which is very useful in operations or warzones.
  
• Good AoE ability "XS Freighter Flyby".
  

Negative things:

• Very complicated rotation
  
• The worst DPS of all melee damage dealers in the game in same gear...
  

 

2) For me Scoundrel Scrapper is not bad damage dealer in PvE: he has some useful abilities for group members and good DPS. But in PvP, especialy on Ranked Warzones, that class is absolutely useless (apart from trolling imps on "Voidstar":p)...

Edited July 18, 2012 by yanilen

[Issreolira]

Dirty Fighting Scoundrel

 

1. Others see it as one of the weakest builds for DPS.

2. I have only done PVE with it, from what I can tell the skill tree is very backloaded. The key ability to doing damage is Wounded shots and the earliest I can get it is level 31ish. So throughout the 20s it feels extremely ineffective and that something is missing.

[syllepsis]

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I don't really know.

 

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I play a sawbones scoundrel. While I enjoy playing it... the playstyle isn't versatile because it is too hung up on resource management. The resource management is a hinderance when it comes to 'oh crap everyone's taking damage' moments. My smuggler is almost completely columni geared and I have severe severe problems on Sav-rak in LI HM.

 

This is not to say that I don't enjoy the playstyle. But battling a dwindling resource bar, plus maintaining upper hand, while dealing with hectic, every diminishing health bars everywhere makes me think that something is missing. There are times when it feels fine. But there are times when it feels like I'm just dealing with bars -- ever the bane of a healing spec.

[mikebevo]

Been a Scoundrel Sawbones since early access and she is still my favorite toon. I don’t PVP so this is exclusively from the PVE perspective. I have run many, many…many SM and HM Ops.

 

1. I think sawbones are perceived as adequate healers in operations, but (especially in HM EV) a Sage healer is preferred by the group because of the AOE heals and the Infernal Council fight (the fight has always worried me, but I really haven’t had that many problems with it).

 

2. Up until I got geared and update 1.2 I thought Sawbones was the worse healing class in the game. Still not sure if it was gear, the update or just getting a better understand of the class, but the class has became a very fun class to play and between the healing and CCs a sought after class for Daily Heroics. Not that we need to group to do the daily heroics once we are properly geared. I also know this is the best class to get gear in game. We almost get as many drops as the Knights, but unlike the Knight there are very few of us in Ops or HMFPs to share with.

 

All in all I am very happy with the class. I do want my giggle back, but I will not quit if I don't.

Edited July 18, 2012 by mikebevo

[TonyDragonflame]

50 lvl s-crapper scoundrel here, almost full WH augumented, only PvP

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

You are kidding me? After all nerfs from 1.1 till 1.3 scrapper now in a**hole.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Sorry, since 1.3 nerf of burst power relics and biochem power adrenals on wz i rerolled to sentinel and never play anymore my beloved scoundrel. Its was my biggest mistake, choosing scoundrel. I spending 3 month for leveling and grinding WH gear, but 1.3 kill finally all.

Dps scoundrel now dead, good work Bioware, big hello G. Zoeller.

[Callmeboba]

Am I allowed to copy my operative feedback over to this thread too? I'd like to voice my opinion over to whoever manages the Scoundrels as well.

[Sangrar]

The Scoundrel advanced class is very great. I am level 35 and working on the Sawbones skill tree. It is a very good, the Scoundrel allows me to use all the strategies and skills I leanred from all my other characters. I can use multiple abilities at once to keep me in battles for long periods of time. For example, I was able to solo, without any help from any other players whatsoever, take down an elite champion npc named Bounty HUnter with 71,885 hp I found in a cantina in Sobrik when I sneaked onto Sobrik on Republic Balmorra twice this week thanks to this class and advanced class and skill tree.I took cover which prevented me from taking most of the damage. I truned on slow release medpack and fired some abilities then hid back in cover and let myself heal. I also used underworld healing and emergence medpack to stay alive, which by the way is very good, in my skill tree I have it set so each underworld healing generates one upper hand buff, and then I use that upper hand buff to use emergence medpack, healing myself even more and keeping me alive while conserving my energy. using all of this I continued a pattern until the boss was dead 20 minutes later. That truly is a good class and I am truly thankful to boiware for making such a great class, adcanced class, and skill set. this also wouldn't have been possible without the cover system, a genius system that reduces that damage I take or stops it while I am not attacking, letting me wait out large attacks that doo alot of damage such as unload. Stealth helps me, combined with sneak and dissapearing act I can go into a heroic 4 area , finish a mission, and leave all by myself without even firing a shot.

 

 

However, despite all of this good there are still some flaws. for example there are no pushback abilities, I am not one of the scoundrels who depends on melee range to do effective damage, and taking a melee dps can sometimes be a pain. also flash grenade only has a range of ten meters, sometimes when I want to stun an enemy I have to run toward them before being able to stun them, leaving me exposed to fire and damage. It would be alot better if flash grenade had a farther range because I like to use it in the middle of a battle to stun a boss so I can heal a companion or myself and then keep going. It was that strategy that allowed me to beat my end of act 1 boss. I also wish that tranquilizer had a buff to show they were tranquilized, that way people will know for sure when that is about to expire so we are more sure of what we are seeing and that others know that they are knocked out and to try to not hit them. I also want a higher range for them, because I am sometimes detected when I get too close to the enemy next to the uys I just tranquilized. I also would like 1 or 2 more stuns that are useable out of stealth, with the greater range, it would help me greatly in combat. I would like a portable cover too, sometimes, even in Smuggler phases I can't find adequate cover and need protection, I tend to draw alot of aggro because I do so much damage but prefer to use Risha, my dps companion over my tanks due to her effectiveness. Portable cover would also really help me and imporve my in game quality, with all the technichal problems its all I have left. Thank you for making these threads to for actual players to reply back on and make suggestions and to say what is working and what isn't, thank you for doing this and May The Force Be With You.

[LilTsar]

many look down a bit on scoundrel dps, especially for pvp, and i tend to agree their 'lone wolf' niche is simply not as useful as more inyourface class with obvious group utility. i know it didnt appeal to me, and i dont feel on any other characters that their presence on etither team makes for a huge impact, as even their 'ninja' capability is only noticeably more strong than that a non-stealth class player that knows how to los on one map (civil war), 2 counting huttball endzone camping.

 

healing is seen as perhaps the strongest in game, especially in pvp due to the prevalence of instant heals. the >30% uh proccage of emp is still extrmely powerful, and unlike, for example, the mercs uninterruptability while their bubble is active, emps power is virtually always available to any decent pvp sawbones. while pve healing feels good, challenging but not overly difficult if im on the ball, pvp is a bit faceroll. the combination of the the hots and emp is incredibly simple and effective.

[DemonGame]

Foreword and foremost, please pardon me if I used any wrong/offensive words that may affect minorities.

 

so far, I have played a trooper, a jedi knight, a jedi consular and a smuggler. yes, i love being a good guy.

 

among them, I feel smuggler dps is quite... senseless...

 

don't grasp my meaning? let me explain.

 

under smuggler, there are two forms, scoundrel and gunslinger.

gunslinger from what i understand is pure range dps, using its special under special circumstances (must be under cover to use it)

 

scoundrel, which i am using, is nonsensical.

why am i saying this? we are forced to be melee when we are holding a blaster (a gun, a range weapon)!

 

- in order to use the specials, we have to gain upper hand first! is either killing a mob or using blaster whip (melee only). In a boss fight, where the hell am I going to get a mob to kill to gain upper hand?

 

- if i am using a RANGE weapon, why the hell am I forced to run all the way to the boss backside use blaster whip, cheekily smack the bum of the boss in order to gain upper hand to unleash our specials?

 

- next is the shotgun that we are allowed to use, is a bloody RANGE weapon in real life, and I believe it has longer range than our blasters (pistol). why the hell do we need to use it at melee distance (back blast)?

 

 

Well, enough complaining, now to suggest solutions.

 

- how about introducing a range skill either in the dps tree or as a scoundrel only skill to gain upper hand?

 

- maybe instead of upper hand, how about restrict to be like our cousins(gunslinger) only allowed to use in cover?

 

- back blast need not be melee, but has a long cd and gains upper hand, and yes still maintain that it can only be shot from behind?

 

- how about back blast from cover in a distance instead?

 

any more suggestions?

[TheOpf]

People Please for the love of all that is holy. Read the first Page before posting. KEEP YOUR RESPONSES TO 2-3 SENTENCES. This is not a suggestion and gripe thread it's feedback on what people think of the Scoundrel. The last two replies were essays that had nothing to do with the questions asked.

 

Stop spilling your life story it only makes it tough on us. If you have several points than break it up to easy to read 2 sentences separated by a space.

Edited July 19, 2012 by TheOpf

[DarffSodius]

In a nutshell, scoundrel lacks utility and will get overlooked for PvP groups because of it.

 

Almost every other class has some sort of Knockback, jump to, or even pull that is really handy for pvp.

 

Our flash grenade is all well and good, but try explaining to your team in huttball why you white barred a ball carrier without removing the danger of him scoring.

[tlcurley]

Hi everyone,

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

 

As a pvp scrapper:

 

1. Against uncoordinated/geared players as cheap because of its' stealth and burst nature. Against skilled/coordinated groups, burst that can easily be mitigated and an easy kill with below-average sustained dps.

 

2. From the perspective of class-enjoyment, class feels very 'un-epic'. Everything about my Sentinel feels 'big': Force Camo, Guarded by the Force, Master Strike, Zen and Transcendence all feel powerful and as though they can shape an encounter. Rebuke and Saber Ward also feel like game-changers. Meanwhile, many Scoundrel skills feel underwhelming. Opener won't break 4k against geared opponents and feels almost identical to Backblast. If we don't use our 1.5 second knockdown to apply - you guessed it - a second stun, we open ourselves up to a counter with no way to get back on target. The 30% armour pen feels underwhelming. Tough energy resources and lengthened TTK (TTK for the class, not globally) make Pugnacity a necessity instead of an option in most encounters and essentially burns the GCD we gain from Shoot First. Our shield eats less then 2k. Dodge has to be saved as a cleanse or Disappearing Act will be wasted. Prohibitive cost of Quick Shot makes its' use detrimental in most situations. Smuggle doesn't seem to have many uses either, and in most cases just seems to annoy people in Warzones (even if useful, the range is to small to be effective when taking into account Warzone lag). And last but not least, you could completely remove the 2% damage buff from upperhand and I doubt most players would even notice.

 

All in all, I think the issues with this class's mechanics are deeper then most people are willing to admit and the class could use a serious re-examination. I personally don't mind the pvp direction toward sustained encounters. However, right now the class seems to lack a roll you can excel at. Maybe improvements to energy resources and sustained dps would fix it, maybe it's the creation of a whole new role in the form of a utility/support class (LOTRO Burglar is the funnest MMO class I've ever played). As it stands now, the class seems overpenalized for possessing stealth and off-healing (which is hardly ever efficient as a scrapper).

 

My (three)-cents.

[Daiyukie]

Keep it concise folks, most responses are way too long for a dev to just skim through the thread and get salient points buried in paragraphs.

 

From way back at the bottom of page 2.

[foxmob]

Scrapper DPS (PvP)

 

1.) How others perceive the class:

Annoying. NOBODY likes to get locked down in any game. (comp. MTG control/counter decks) very good for guarding nodes, but shadows/assassins are better. sawbones (healer) smugglers are also better: more survivability to interrupt until real dps arrive.

 

2.) How do you perceive your own class:

I had great fun leveling this guy. However, I leveled an assassin at the same time (deception & darkness). They're very similar in utility and basic philosophy. the scrapper does more initial burst, but the assassin is far more effective overall.

 

problem:

scrapper relies far too much on coming out of stealth, because once you're in combat in a WZ, you're more likely to have the vanish CD reset or to simply die than to get out of combat and re-stealth. So all that burst to start a fight is great, but you won't kill decent players of any class.

 

suggestion:

a.) increase burst abil dmg (dangerous);

b.) increase out-of-stealth dmg abils (meh - changes the class identity);

c.) reduce CD on vanish OR develop other ways of breaking combat.

 

I prefer C, myself, but I don't play this guy much. the assassin does pretty much the same thing but lives a lot longer.

 

PS: healing operatives/smugglers are op in my opinion, but I've only tried to kill them. I haven't tried the spec yet. the fact that every healer says his spec is great or "fine" atm ought to tell you a little something (else) though.

[Phesojss]

This is for a DPS Scoundrel level 50.

How do others see a DPS Scoundrel ?

AS a poor DPS that needs positioning to do do there max damage (which is bottom Tier.)

Any Operations or other Boss that moves, detects stealth or knocks back severely reduces a Scoundrels damage.

How do I see a Scoundrel DPS?

Everything has to go right to be effective, things like getting detected in stealth, or position abilities misreading and not activating, or not getting back into stealth from combat can mean death to a single same level elite. A good example of this is the elite Flesh raider on the Elshu Daily on Belsavis.

Luckily I have 4 other 50'a that had a much easier time. A Jedi Gaurdian Tank, a Balance Shadow a Hybrid Balance DPS Sage and a Gunslinger

[Waldkautz]

Hello!

 

Sawbones (Healer) PVP only.

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Highly difficult to kill if not unkillable. Stuns you, slows you, kites you, stuns you again, and the moment you think you can finally finish him off he vanishes; Insta-heals himself all through the process.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

High mobility and (therefore) high survivability (great defensive cooldowns). Good healing output, but too reliant on Underworld Medicine. Difficult to keep track of Upper Hand. Overall best balanced out PVP healing class.

[crazyBE]

I switched specs so I'll answer 2:

 

Scrapper

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

A literal pain in the butt in PvP. Nobody likes getting stunlocked to death. PvE the DPS is way too low and they have nothing to make up for it.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Terrible. A pain to level in. I-have-a-Guardian-why-am-I-even-playing-this-stupid character.

 

Sawbones

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

OP in PvP. With a guard you most likely need 4 players to even take them or their tank out if they know what they're doing. Okay in PvE.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I love being able to move and still heal properly for a while.

[Anselm]

1:

The annoying class that hinders you from the player you are currently killing. good PVP healing. Terrible PvE DPS.

2:

I feel like a scavenger. In PVP I find it extremely hard to compete without any sustainable dps out of stealth. Once I'mget aoe'd out or seen, its over.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Anselm

[Wainamoinen]

I can only refer to my experience: Scrapper; level 50 unranked PvP.

 

1. How do you think your Scoundrel spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Weak, with situationally useful abilities that don't compensate for insufficient damage output, vulnerability and difficulty to master.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Very fun, but needs to be well played and highly geared to contribute to the degree other classes can with less effort.

 

Its sustained damage is weaker than other melee classes, so it needs a big burst to give a chance against opponents. Removing the relic and stim boosts hurt this. Both of these mean good gear is required, or the only possible targets are very weakened opponents out of stealth. Getting back into stealth shouldn't be trivial, but it's pretty hard and we're soft when caught out of it.

 

On my server, there are around four geared and effective scrappers (I include myself) in warzones, which I'd regard as anecdotal evidence of the difficulty of making the spec effective. There may be a similar number of concealment ops.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[angrydurf]

Lvl 50 Dirty Fighting Scoundrel

 

1: What? People play Dirty fighting on scoundrel? It's assumed that you are sawbones or maybe scrapper no one really knows what DF can or does do and would generally rather have a sawbones or scrapper.

 

2: DF really feels confused. There is a broad range of operational ranges but synergies basically require melee range to be maintained making longer range abilities basically meaningless. We have very little to move in and out of melee range and despite no real synergies for it in the skill tree are required to use shoot first, backblast, and of course blaster whip to maintain dps. Backloaded damage is basically meaningless in PvP and almost useless in PvE outside of long boss fights. Trash pulls with good dps most mobs will be gone before I get off my first wounding shots.