Class Feedback

[Jinxblog]

1. Sage Healer is by far, the most desired healing class, both PvE and PvP. For DPS, the Sage is more of support than a raw damage dealer, via Force Armor, Force Sprint, Rescue, and an arsenal of instant DoTs.

 

2. I only heal on my Sage so I cannot speak damage-wise, but I love Sage healing. Sage healer is perfectly at home raid healing (everyone besides the tanks) with numerous Force Armors, defense-buffing moves, and a beautiful AoE heal. The Sage's long cast, low burst heals cripples the Sage's ability to heal high burst damage taken by the tanks in boss fights.

[Vatho]

I am a 100% pvper, balance spec. The sage feels as one of the very laughed at classes in pvp considering a moderately geared juggernaut can charge and back to back crit for 7000+ on war hero gear. It is by far the most underpowered class when it comes to survivability.

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

My balance sage is perceived as somewhat useful as utility, and a complementary dps, but is largely useless solo and has no survivability. Hence why sages are insantly primaried in warzones by juggernauts, assassins, and anyone else that is in range.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Sage has some major survivability issues that is gradually causing me to switch classes. Its dps is also lackluster having 0 burst damage making it useless in a 1v1 scenario(which i would be fine with if i could do more in WZ's besides die)

[simwolf]

i played sage dps in pvp and a little of pve mostly flashpoint

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

in pvp our utility is great but were a easy kill due to our low survivability and no migitation oh crap button pve doing good but could be improved to macht other classes.

 

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Balance

balance as great utility and mobility but lack burst so it can tike a moment to kill things and since dot can be cleanse the dmg suffer and also force regen is very weak.

 

telekinetics

 

tk really feel powerful the tree as a good burst and has really good ressource mechanic but really lack in mobility and easely interrupted to help this adding a talent that makes our filler ability disturbance castable while moving and adding project in the tidal force talent will help in mobility (doing a moderate amount of dmg while moving is better than no dmg ) also adding to mental aclarity an effect that makes us uninterrutpable during his 10 sec duration would be great.

 

For procs adding the telekinetic effusion visual effect to phsysic projection would be more useful i always see is visual effect because it proc all the time but i always look for the psychic projection buff on my buff bar wich reduce my view of the play field.

Edited July 26, 2012 by simwolf

[Roiz]

I played again my sage alt for short time. Class is completely broken in PvP. The problem is not only zero survivability and very low damage but class mechanics.

First is the spell force in balance - you cannot use spells with aoe selection on the move and rotate camera at the same time. To be able use this spell in pvp on the move we need this spell to target enemy player rather than area and affect nearest players without mouse interference.

 

balance is actually a dot spec - but if you run and put dots you run out of the force fast. Not enough dots. We have only one dot without cooldown and one dot with cooldown, if we put two dots nothing to do any more. We need desent amount instant attacks what we can do at the move. For example look at the affliction warlock from wow, it has two dots with no cooldown at very cheap mana cost, and few other fast castable spells.

 

Mind crush should be instant, no CD and cost little force.

 

The way how balance should work:

1. Sage should have descent amount of instant cast abilities to put dots on the move without loosing force and easy to switch targets.

2. Way better survivability and instant fear to move target away without filling resolve.

3. Channeling abilities to drain life from enemies.

 

In current situation sage sucks in pvp, the good thing it is not my main:)

Edited July 18, 2012 by Roiz

[xGryzzly]

Seer

 

How do others see us:

PvE: If the seer has some skill, they are a good choice.

PvP: Squishy

 

How do I see us:

PvE: I consider myself pretty good at the class, however it has taken a lot of practice to get good. The force management is a pain, and takes away from the fun. In a long tough boss fight, we don't have an "oh sh*t" button. Often it is the exact opposite...more like "oh sh*t...I can't heal anything because I'm out of force and out of health to tap".

There is NOTHING more frustrating than this scenario, because you leave the fight feeling helpless...

I would say it is one of the hardest classes to master, and a lot of people don't have the patience. Lucky for swtor, i'm a glutton for punishment, and have painstakingly learned to "manage" killing myself for force...like someone said...aren't we supposed to be Jedi? Even though I feel like I have learned to manage noble sacrifice, I still find myself in the "helpless" realm from time to time...Particularly in fights where I am healing from range..dropping salvation on melee and tank, but still taking damage from adds or aoe. (think toth/zorn in EC or LR-5 in LI) With little way of life tapping and healing myself while still healing the tank. Its frustrating...

So yeah, thats my biggest gripe about the class in PvE.

 

PvP: Eh...all it takes is a marker on your head, and you become target priority number 1. First to die...easiest to kill. Force speed may save you from time to time...but yeah...

There has been plenty of gripes about this, so I won't go on.

 

All in all, I'd recommend tweaking the whole concept of noble sacrifice. Perhaps our bubble could last longer when used on ourselves or something...

[ThatGuyToo]

I think other classes look at a dps or healer sage as dangerous at range when the player knows how to work their skills and with mele we are squishy. Just as we need to know our strengths and weaknesses for pve and pvp, our opponents need to know the same towards us. It's part of what I enjoy about my sage.

 

I mostly dps now and have used the balanced tree but have moved to the telekenetic tree for more sustained dps vs burst dps. When planted firm I can tear others down in pvp at range and while having to move I have instant dots and such I can hit others with. I like the benefits and challenges I have after learning how to use my skills. The sage is perfect.

[Parasi]

Sage - I have respec'd my sage over 30 times and played in Ops and PvP. I settled on healing mostly, but still swap back and forth.

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

I think the Sage is considered a healer by other classes - damage specs are little seen and not understood. They are considered THE healer because of salvation. Damage is seen as subpar or too vulnerable.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I created this guy to do damage and while the potential to do top damage is there, every variation but 1 is just awful in being no fun (way too simplistic) or unable to keep pace with boss fight dynamics. Healing is easy when paired with a scoundrel or combat medic but far from the best for anything but raid healing (heaing the whole group). I see the sage as a support class no matter how you do it - sacrifice some of the "main thing" (damage or heals) for added utility, stuns, the opposite spec (damage while healing or vice versa) and the like.

 

Healing, the resource management is straightforward, provides a challenge, and is the best of the 3 healers hands down. The give/take of this healer is well thought and forces the player to think to perform well. When partnered with other healers, things go great but the sage feels like the weakest of the 3 in the healing my target department. Once again, the Sage is an excellent support class trading healing prowess for excellent extras.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Parasi

[Fomby]

1. My guild loves our sage healers, but feels like the skill cap is high on them.

 

2. I like my class but I feel like it is clunky in resource management. As a healer I find it difficult to do prolonged battles with sustained or AoE damage. My suggestion is take away the health damage when using our consumption when we have the proc'd buff.

[Tyrias]

Apologies for a second response in this thread, but after having read it through, I'd like to revise my answer to the question about how other people view the Sage. Some people who don't play Sage and yet are under the impression they fare well in a competitive environment appear to think DPS sages have maxed out at least two trees:

 

"Sages are fine. They have amazing damage when they cast Turbulence on a target under the effects of Weaken Mind, then instant cast Telekinetic Wave with the Tidal force proc, then follow it up with a Mental Scarring enhanced Force In Balance crit, all the while also running Sever Force and Mind crush DoTs."

 

Hilariously, that's still 7.5s (assuming you already have a tidal force proc waiting) to do 3, 3-4k hits, 1 1-2k hit and run some long, weak Dot's on a target. Some classes with REAL specs do as much as that over 7.5s already. An alternative view of the a DPS Sage is that has spent at least 20 points in each tree:

 

"All those CC options in both the Balance and Telekinetics trees, combined with the comparatively cost effective heals and cleanse usable against multiple different ACs gained from heavy speccing into the Seer tree make up for for any lack of DPS compared to other classes when speccing for DPS".

Edited July 18, 2012 by Tyrias

[Tyrias]

Apologies for a second response in this thread, but after having read it through, I'd like to revise my answer to the question about how other people view the Sage. Some people who don't play Sage and yet are under the impression they fare well in a competitive environment appear to think DPS sages have maxed out at least two trees:

 

"Sages are fine. They have amazing damage when they cast Turbulence on a target under the effects of Weaken Mind, then instant cast Telekinetic Wave with the Tidal force proc, then follow it up with a Mental Scarring enhanced Force In Balance crit, all the while also running Sever Force and Mind crush DoTs."

 

Hilariously, that's still 7.5s (assuming you already have a tidal force proc waiting) to do 3, 3-4k hits, 1 1-2k hit and run some long, weak Dot's on a target. Some classes with REAL specs do as much as that over 7.5s already. An alternative view of the a DPS Sage is that has spent at least 20 points in each tree:

 

"All those CC options in both the Balance and Telekinetics trees, combined with the comparatively cost effective heals and cleanse usable against multiple different ACs gained from heavy speccing into the Seer tree make up for for any lack of DPS compared to other classes when speccing for DPS".

 

Thinking about it, I finally begin to understand my (And I suspect many others') frustrations with the Sage AC as a whole. There just isn't a dedicated DPS spec. As such it is a playstyle that used to be, but since 1.2 is no longer an option to me. The best I can hope for is either moderate mobile DPS with CC and woefully inefficient off-healing, or I can have slightly above average damage in a very static build, with different CC and woefully inefficient off-healing.

 

[EDIT] Drat... I swear I clicked on Edit and not Quote. Oh well. Narcissism for me then, quoting myself and all.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Tyrias

[veyen]

Personally, I'm in love with my Sage. I play the telekenetics spec in PVE. However, theres one bug that STILL exists in SWTOR for our instant procs. The Tidal Force proc bugs our casting animation till we have our hands still in the air for about 3 seconds after the cast, preventing us from looting while looking extremely awkward. This is associated with the spell Telekenetic Wave.

 

I love my class in PVE, but why is this really annoying bug still in the game? It's been in since launch and its extremely visible.

[Desiirea]

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

Strong in PVE. Good AOE healer, weaker on burst single target healing.

Easily killed (free kill quite frankly) in PVP unless guarded by a tank.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

PVE: Have cleared EC Hard and have it on farm. Great AOE healer. The play has become rather clunky though. There has to be a better way to manage the regen mechanic other then taking ones health. The cast time on our large heal can be problematic sometimes. You have high burst/spike damage content in the game and a healing class whose biggest heal is on a very long cast time. Addressing the double dipping bug needed to happen, but removing a cooldown that allowed reducing this cast time for burst damage situations makes healing entirely too dependent on overly quick reaction skill, along with a lot of hoping and praying your heal lands in time.

 

P.S. I kind of don't like the 5 second cool down on all the healer cleanse abilities. I do not like asking the dps to stop doing their jobs to cover my job because mine is on cooldown. But this is a more minor issue.

 

PVP: You asked for it... Server First Elite Warlord. Yes, not needed, but I am hoping this gets someone's attention. 31 point sage healed almost the whole way up both in groups, but more often solo queued. I've tried very hard to adjust and give it time. I am extremely well known on my server. I'm miserable. Could I say more?! I've basically stopped going it solo on both sage and sorc toon.

 

This class is entirely too dependent on a pocket tank. Give us incentives to run with tanks, but I should not feel crippled because I do not have one. I like the option of going it solo sometimes. I am TIRED of being free kills for everyone. The only time I get that 'I love my class' feeling anymore is the rare times I make it to the endzone in huttball and manage to pull someone to the goal. Not because of my actual healing. It feels like number padding. I don't ever get to throw out a heal that makes me think "that heal just saved the game!" Most times I'm just relieved the match is over. When I don't queue with a pocket tank, I end almost every match angry and disappointed.

 

Do I make it work. Sure. I can put up great numbers and my ranked team does win. Am I having fun doing it. Absolutely not. The play on this class is too demanding and frustrating. Specially, if you are a particularly well know healer. The only reason I haven't completely thrown in the towel is I play with fantastic people I do not want to let down, and I'm holding out hope the devs will do something to bring the fun back. I really love my toon, I play this game wayyyy too much, but right now it feels like an abusive playstyle and I'll only wait for so long...

Edited July 19, 2012 by Desiirea

[Mingnut]

Hi,

 

My response to your questions:

 

1) How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Useful in specific circumstances such as OPS, where the Salvation AOE heal can make a real difference (Seer Spec).

Playing in PVP, the surviveability is nil.

 

2) How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Force Management is an issue during OPS encounters. Healing is not intuitive because of this.

During prolonged battles, I need to be healed in order to recoup health, which I sacrificed in order to maintain the ability to heal. Challenging to play but not fun, when heal-specced.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Mingnut

[shadowflit]

Seer Sage perspective (31/7/3)

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

PvE - Valuable. Salvation is much loved.

 

PvP - Squishiest healer, free kill in any spec.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

PvE - Strong, but very dependent on Salvation. Even on fights where AoE healing isn't key, Salvation still does 30-40% of my healing output. On fights where there's lots of unavoidable damage and dps can bunch up, Salvation jumps to 60-70% of my total healing. Not much variety in healing options anymore, after the 1.2 change to conveyed deliverance and the 1.3 fix (finally) to conveyance buff.

 

PvP - Not as bad as perceived with good gear and effective cc usage. In non-rateds, often survivable with good cc and awareness even lacking guard some of the time. IMO, requires the 2-pc PvE set bonus to be useful. However, in rateds taking two sage healers is still a bad idea due to our overall squishiness and lack of effective instant heals. Synergy with Scoundrel is great, Commando not bad. Rateds require that I have a good tank protecting me anytime I look like I might take damage, where that is less the case for a Scoundrel. We have less abilities that can counter being focused.

 

I still enjoy healing on my Sage overall in both categories.

Edited July 19, 2012 by shadowflit

[LessieBessie]

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

From a PVE Seer perspective, I feel like Sage's are desirable. I'm getting asked to join Ops I have no business running (gear wise) just to have a sage in the group vs a better geared scoundrel or commando (I decline, of course).

 

From a PVP perspective, I feel like no one wants us (heals or dps)

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Again from PVE Seer, I feel like I'm just as good as the other two healing classes. I think that I can heal better in certain situations, but in some where I have to move a lot the other classes would perform better.

 

From a PVP Seer perspective, I won't enter a warzone without a tank friend to run with. Otherwise, it's pretty much a game of "can I top the leaderboard in deaths." With a tank though, I feel super useful. I can help keep my teammates alive and not die in 3 seconds! From a balance tree perspective, I feel like I could pump out the damage, but being super squishy and a healer advanced class means there's a big target on me the whole time and I die fast.

[Ranevan]

Low level Both DPS specs

1. I haven't had anyone say anything to me about it.

 

2. Both feel fun, but I'm liking the instant gratification of TK spec right now. I look forward to the hybrid spec I saw a while ago when I hit 50 which I think might be a little loss of burst damage with no auto crit, but will just feel more flow like and it should be close if the damage of the moves stays the same relative to each move. Of course that's probably a bad sign if I look forward to a hybrid spec instead of a full one since hybrid is not what the design team wants people to go with, but battlemaster or rakata set bonus might make me change my mind when I have access to them.

[FaidenX]

In terms of question #1, I am not sure. Perhaps OP? I usually get top heals in warzones but idk.

 

Question 2: I am all the way up in the Seer tree, with a few points in the other trees for extra willpower, reduction in force cost, increase in total force and extra force armor absorption. The problem I have with my tree is why do we have a bonus to accuracy in a healing tree? That's useless to us. Also, again why do we have a bonus to presence? It's useless, the extra healing isn't though. Force management isn't very viable with NS, and not having any survivability utilities like the other healing classes do is difficult to deal with at times.

[Aambed-khar]

My AC is Sage Seer 32/7/2. Almost exclusively play PvE. Currently running progression HM operations with my guild group.

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

I've had nothing but positive comments from others whether running HM Flashpoints, Operations or world content. Seems to me that the Sage is considered a very viable choice for PvE healing. As for criticisms of no Instant Healing... that's what the Bubble is for. Damage not taken, is health saved the way I play.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Love it! I really liked the reworking that Bioware did to the way we manage our resource force power. Before the changes I never ran out of focus but often now I am having to manage my resource quite closely, which I find makes the spec very exciting to play. (Denova really gets my heart rate up

Edited July 20, 2012 by Aambed-khar

[Kuvox]

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Most classes sigh when I go DPS. Even though I pull lots of damage I am CONSTANTLY asked at the start of warzones if I am heals or DPS. People would rather see a Sentinel, Vanguard, or Gunslinger than a DPS Sage. Simply put, we die too easily. When I am heals everyone cheers. The fact of the matter is that I don't enjoy healing as much as DPS. I still see Sages/Sorcs outhealing every other class so this reaction is not surprising to me.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Look, all classes suffer DPS or heals when focused down but because Sages die so easily our DPS and heal numbers suffer tremendously when we die as soon as we leave spawn. We are the easy kills that Marauders simply cannot resist.

 

IN THEORY, we have the tools to escape damaging situations but these are largely negated by stuns and roots making them largely useless, especially when up against rated teams.

 

Also, our lack of burst makes it difficult for us to focus down healers unless another teammate is also on them. Simply put, the damage we deal can usually be easily healed over.

[Meskel]

From a purely PVP perspective:

A seer sage when piloted by a skilled player can change the outcome of the battle, but they are the most easily countered healer. Just put a target on their head. Stun, and if one other player switches target the threat is removed.

 

Full 31 point seer is not viable without good tanks and peels. 21 point hybrid adds more defensive abilities but its still not enough without support. It is NOT recommended to pvp queue solo as a sage healer. You NEED good support. A good healer trying to keep decent/bad players alive will have very little impact on the outcome of a match.

 

That lead me to try DPS. The balance tree and the damage over time mechanic is simply too slow for the current burst heavy environment. There is a distinct lack of both initial burst capability and finishing power. Because it takes longer to kill an opponent than other classes, it is more likely the opponent will win unless you have a healer or tank countering their damage.

 

The balance/tk hybrid adds a small amount of survivability and burst in exchange for less mobility and sustained damage. This trade off also does not seem effective.

 

I have not yet had the opportunity to try out a full Tk build.

[Metalmac]

Balance Sage PVE/PVP

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

Sage is perceived us as weak and easy to kill.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Well I was Telekinetic and is more fun but so weak in survival in PVP/PVE that I went back to Balance.

In PVP Sage is just to easy to lock down and kill.

In PVE Sage is fine but targeting in this game truely sucks.

 

Example: Select Force in Balance and your target goes away, WHY?

[L-RANDLE]

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

My Spec 3/17/21

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/sage#i-181ec33-7c9832f

1. Too weak, even for a support DPS class. Unwanted, Gimped, laughable.

Whether PvP or PvE, subpar is what most players think, whether informed or not as to the "life of a Sage".

 

2. I have rolled numerous amounts of DPS specs, but this one gives me a greater chance to actually do anything.The problems with any DPS spec for our class are that they are not really role defining. There are misguided talents in the two DPS trees(and Seer too for that matter) to be able to spec 31 points in a particular tree, and remain viable.

If you are heavily in the balance tree, your defense should include a real reduction of ALL damage (and not the 3% garbage at the bottom), and a hard kite talent like "mind trick"--make a target move in a direction of your choosing for x secs.

If you are in the TK tree, your top level talent should be instant and on par with top DPS skills/trees of other classes, and make TK Wave an internal attack (hence really being cannon).

 

 

Seems like you guys just got the memo on how Sages/Sorc are bantha poo post 1.2, I wrote about it a few weeks after 1.2 released. I don't know if you would bother looking at it, but here it is, with a ton of ideas how our QoL could be improved. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=418855

Nothing too overpowering, and actually some proposed nerfs (yah I know, nerfs..)

 

pst...... UNLOCK TUMULT and give of some melee bonus talent!!!!

[Isolde]

Full Seer Healer

 

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PVE - Desirable (pretty much solely for Salvation) but best with another class as partner healer (Seemingly since keeping Force topped up and maintaining enough life to survive whilst trying to maintain Force oneself is challenging).

 

PVP - Undesirable (better than Commando but worse than Scoundrel). We're seen as too squishy and other than hutball (Rescue and Force Speed) our skillset is rarely needed. I've been declined from RWZ groups after the revelation of my class.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PVE - Abilities are fun, varied and reasonably flexible (could do with a better instant though). However whilst I've learnt to work with the 1.2 changes to Force regeneration, I still strongly feel like it is an uphill battle to heal the raid and stay alive myself whilst maintaining Force. Too many GCD's used on trying to regen force/stay alive compared to healing the team because I'm constantly bleeding out. It's a doable challenge but definitely not a fun or enjoyable one!

 

PVP - Incredibly squishy, easily interrupted (effectively neutered) and time to kill makes healing overall reasonably useless. Must have a tank just for babysitting which whilst makes sense in some ways does mean that 2 people are taken out of team play just self healing/defending. Unpleasant experience overall.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Isolde
Clarification

[BlueCrusader]

I played dps, balance I think.

 

1. In PvP, I am an easy kill for them. As ranged, I cannot keep a gap between the enemy and myself when they leap to me and my knock back is so small.

 

2. This class is great for solo PvE, and imo the most fun to play.

[Antipodes]

1. How do you think your Sage spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PvP:

 

1. Most other classes view sages to be slippery with their defensive abilities, but very easy to kill when immobile.

 

2. Sages feel well rounded and have a very fun combination of healing, damage, and CC.

 

The two most popular damage specs (full balance and balance/telekinetics hybrid) are a bit too simplistic and the abilities don't have any umph to them (minus force in balance). Reducing the time it takes for DoTs to do their damage will go a long way in making them competitive with the burst damage classes.

 

As for healing, I really miss the old conveyance. The faster heal buff was fun, because it modify the *feel* of a spell, rather than just providing some mathematical bonus.

 

As a whole, Sages are in a decent place, but could use a survivability/burst damage buff. Making sprint root/pull immune would go a long way in making their escape mechanics more consistent.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Antipodes