Class Feedback

[Regault]

1. I think Defense Guardians are perceived as "okay" for flashpoints but I doubt anyone really wants us raid tanking. In PvP Defense Guardians are useless for all warzones except Huttball.

 

2. The class definitely has damage issues, both in actual damage(Lowest in the game) and uptime(When Force Leap is on CD you can do nothing to close with an enemy). 1.3 actually made the class worse, as Guardian Slash had its damage replaced with an AoE that only effects enemies practically touching each other. My AoE taunt is the only ability I have with a large enough radius to grab an entire group. Any boss fight with add management or "red light/green light" dps phases like Soa feel like the devs are flipping the AC the bird. Solo questing on a Defense Guardian is probably the most horribly tedious thing in the game right now, on par with Defense Warriors in WoW Classic.

 

I cancelled my account due to the 1.3 Guardian changes.

[PresBMK]

1) Defense Guardian is perceived as a "good enough" tank for PvE, with weak sustained damage relative to the other tank classes. Defense Guardian spec is entirely useless for PvP.

 

2) In PvE, I feel like I do fine as far as "tankiness" - but holding threat has now become a problem. I never had problems holding threat pre-1.3, but I am now raiding with mostly augmented campaign/BH geared DPS and my ability to hold threat (dealing ~600 DPS vs. 1400+ DPS) does not scale with their ability to deal damage without use of taunts. I feel like the changes in 1.3 improved my AoE ability but this is not in any way helpful in endgame raid content.

[Konokosan]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

As a tank with the lowest HP, lowest mitigation, and lowest DPS, hence, why would they bother with you.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

ATM I am a Vigilance primary spec with just enough into defense to be able to tank if need be. This is the only viable tank spec because even if you boost our threat however high you want, when you can't deal enough damage to cause any threat at all no amount of threat boost means a damn.

[Qa-Weef]

Vigilance Guardian here, mostly PVP.

 

1. Other melee classes know they have offensive and defensive advantages over us. Marauders/Sentinels especially so.

 

2. The general consensus around Plasma Brand is its under performing and overly expensive for a 31 point talent; its sunder requirement puts us at disadvantage when fighting other melee with high passive defences, as its pre requisite strikes can and will be dodged and parried. This is an unfair and clunky mechanic.

 

My view is that Vigilance provides great mobility and utility however the numbers presented at he end of each WZ aren't indicative of the of the amount of work I put in.

[Zuckazz]

Played guardian tank since beta - I clear hard mode EC weekly.

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Easily the weakest PVE tank in the game. My guild will not even accept a new guardian tank since 1.3. We have the best defensive cool downs in the game, but lowest hp (thanks to no 3% endurance talent like all other tanks have) and worst mitigation in the game.

 

Lets recap:

Lowest dps of all tanks / lowest hp of all tanks / lowest mitigation of all tanks = SAD guardian players...

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Full Defense Tree is totally not an option for a tank. A hybrid spec is essential at end game raiding which is really a complete shame. Between nerfing Guardian Slash and Hilt Strike - PLUS the top tier defense talents are so tank weak - you really have no other option to be competitive by go hybrid.

 

What a waste - we really need to have full defense as a totally viable alternative to the hybrid vig/def.

 

We are broken - please fix it.

[thebigdoubleu]

I switch between a 31 point Defense and 31 point Vigilance spec frequently depending on ops schedule and needs, so I will comment on both.

 

Hi everyone,

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

As a Defense tank:

 

I am generally the main tank for my guild, and my guildies and friends know that the Guardian is capable of getting the job done. In particular, the Guardian's mobility is especially appreciated in specific encounters (e.g. Zorn and Toth in EC). However, this mobility is not exclusive to the Guardian tank, but rather Guardians in general.

 

Defense tanks are tolerated in PvP (at least in normal wazones), but generally seen as inferior to hybrid tanks who can apply pressure to enemy players rather than just soak up damage.

 

As a Vigilance DPS:

 

Only my guild mates on the ops team are aware that a Vigilance Guardian can pull their weight given proper gear and skill. Outside of this group, my experience is that Vigilance Guardians suffer a stigma of mediocre DPS.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

As a Defense tank:

 

I believe we were unnecessarily nerfed in 1.3. Guardian Slash's new AoE ability is more or less irrelevant since AoE encounters are almost always resolved very quickly, and the new buff threat buff to Force Sweep is actually, IMHO, much better. Even with Purifying Sweeps, it is still more efficient to just rely on Force Sweep for AoE encounters. I feel my spec makes me quite useless in PvP and really hinders my solo game time due to the damage nerf to Guardian Slash for our supposed gains in AoE threat.

 

As a Vigilance DPS:

 

I believe this is a solid spec for both PvE and PvP gameplay. In PvE, I feel that I can contribute steady damage from my DOTs and Master Strike refreshes rather than rely on big burst numbers which I originally expected (given talents like PB, OS, and Force Rush).

[Icebergy]

1. I believe guardians are perceived as one of the weakest ACs and the weakest tanks.

2. I believe my class can perform well if you play it properly, but they could use a slight buff to DPS and a large buff to tank DPS and threat. I think that defense needs a ton of work. Defense is not a viable tree in its current form.

[CarverX]

1) Good class, a threat in pvp with both decent defense and good offensive skills.

 

2) A fun class with a good balance although I hate waiting for skills to come up.

[Zunayson]

Vigilance:

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes? I'm rather new to the Guardian forums (44 guardian, still new ), so I don't know a whole lot about what people are saying about vigilance, except that it's mediocre in PvP and useful in PvE. They say that in PvE, it's only worth tanking, and for PvP it's only worth rolling focus spec.

2. How do you perceive your own spec? It's the guardian sustained damage spec due to the fact that Shien Form gives endless focus because of how long I am stunned. But, moreso, I think vigilance is God-mode OPness that I'm surpised hasn't been FOTM yet. Chain Masterstrikes and the indomitable Overhead slash paired with lots of Defensive Cooldowns, long range mobility and utility make Vigilance Guardians rank in my top 3 favorite class/spec. I feel that having to use masterstrike all the time gives me downtime, and I would like it if I had a root with it along with Zen Strike ("In addition, Master Strike has a [33%/66%/100%] chance to root the target for it's duration."). But, as being the only melee spec I've heard of that has to channel and stay immobile for some time, we better do great damage. I feel I shine the most at stomping over other melees, because I don't have downtime when I channel masterstrike.

[Lahsbee]

Context: Guardian Vigilance spec, with enough Defense to pick up Solidified Force. Most endgame context has been PvP (valor 50-ish). I love me some PvP and enjoy playing my toon. This is my first MMO and there are likely some LTP issues.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/guardian#e8-7kddi28e2f-2

 

That said . . .

 

1) Others think: DPS is not as good as a Sentinal in PvP or PvE. Good utility and good PvP mitigation with taunts (not everyone uses these well, sadly). Poor team player - benefits to the group are subtle and so most people miss them.

 

2) I think: DPS is indeed inferior to the Sentinal. The problem here is that we are also more fragile! Our defensive cooldowns are not even close to our dual-wielding brethren - in particular, Guarded by the Force is crazy good compared to what we pack. Heavy armor does not make up for this in PvP. Also, Plasma Brand has underwhelming upfront damage and can be cleansed.

 

Overall, Vigilance is a fun spec but lacks a bit in the power department. Thanks for asking.

[bclemons]

1. I play a Hybrid specked Guardian Tank. My class is seen to be a mediocre dps at best as we have very underpowered skills in our tree. Guardian dps is extremely outclassed by almost every other class save possibly scrapper. Guardian Tanking suffers from the same issue. When I was full defense spec I found it extremely difficult to hold aggro for sustained lengths of time. Even after the aggro buff. I have found it paramount to spec hybrid as full defense spec puts your group at a serious disadvantage against raid bosses with a tight enrage timer. Compared to Vanguards/Shadows we are a second tier tank as we are no tougher than either class however, we do much less damage. Also most of the skills in our defense tree are worthless for raiding. ie. solidified force: freezing force is completely worthless against raid bosses; blade barrier is still very underpowered making it an afterthought at best for guardian tanking; Command: you only use force push to mess around why running hms it is completely worthless in any boss fight, it should possibly be switched to being a pvp gear set bonus; Guardian Slash has been rendered obsolete by 1.3 I in no way need a smart aoe, nerfing the primary damage/threat producer into an aoe makes it worthless for ops/hms mobs are not the difficult part of pve content. Guardians are currently at a 20% disadvantage damage wise which in a raid is unacceptable.

 

2.I agree with the opinions of those outside the class, as I was unable to output any type of significant damage output and I find that the defense tree needs a serious buff indamage and useful abilities. Unremitting is an amazing defensive ability as well as effluence when combined with purifying sweep is paramount as it allows you to build your armor reduction without burning your focus which is scarce, as you barely build any at all. In conclusion we just need more damage and better defensive abilities as we have so many wasted ones.

[KryptonCypher]

My answers are from the perspective of a Defense-specced Guardian playing PVP only.

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Other classes perceive Defense-specced Guardians as annoying rather than threatening. I'm someone to deal with (by either killing or CCing) to stop me protecting the healers, or preventing a cap.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

The same way as other classes do. Defense Guardians lack enough utility to be an excellent support class, and enough DPS to be a threat.

 

Suggestions:

1. Move Unremitting to the Defense tree
   
2. Return Guardian Slash to its pre-1.3 incarnation
   

 

Thanks for listening!

[TheLoneDruid]

Guardian Tank.

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

Not as powerful in comparison to other tanks. Ok tanks against single target but least effective in DPS in comparison to Shadows and Vanguards and least effective in holding aggro with multiple targets. (I have heard people actually believe bringing a Guardian tank "gimps" the team due to the lack of DPS)

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

A lot "spikier" compared to the other tanks. I know this is because it's a defense tank vs a shield tank like Vanguards and Shadows but a Guardian tank can get hit for much higher damage in rapid succession if the procs for defense don't work well. While tanking or healing these tanks I have noticed that I can lose a tank quickly if I'm not precasting heals in some cases. If we could get an ability that provides self healing, or something that would give us a self cleanse and a buff to our aoe attacks (or another one. Vanguards and Shadows both have some kind of aoe attack that's ranged, we don't) I believe it would be more on-par with the other tanks.

[Mouk]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

Mixed bag. I think DPS spec works for guardian just fine, but the tanking could be improved a little bit.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

My personal spec is a hybrid that works for huttball, but sometimes I feel the damage mitigation as a tank isn't where it should be (full tank should be able to defend against full DPS evenly).

[Zailou]

1. -

 

2. I'd like that guardian top tier talents were better. There are alot of tanks that use hybrid spec for better tanking and i'd hope changes to defense tree were made so that it would be the only viable pve ops tanking spec.

[SajPl]

1. The ability to guard a healer so using tank stance and stil land a 6k aoe smash is OP. Vanguard build which was using the tanking stance and refreshing high impact bolt from speccing into assault was nerfed so the same should be for guardians - the buffs to the smash should only apply when in the dps stance.

2. Overall ok and balanced.

Edited July 17, 2012 by SajPl

[JediCahlwyn]

How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Defense spec. Solid tank, not heard any complaints.

 

How do you perceive your own spec?

 

My favorite class/spec to play. I love the survivability and the mobility. Threat generation/management needs to be better and after 1.3 I feel that I mitigate less/take more damage.

 

What I lack is a Harpoon/Force Pull. This would REALLY help. Give me Force Pull and give the Shadow a Leap/Charge and all three tanks will have a push/pull. Vanguard have both, Jedi should too!

[Gorghte]

Current Spec - Defense Guardian

 

1. From reading the Guardian and PvP forums, the perception of this specification is that it is weak due to low damage output and not enough of a survivability increase to compensate.

 

2. I feel this build is an excellent tank build as I have had no problem tanking through all the HM flashpoints while able to do enough damage and threat generation using Soresu form to handle all the encounters. I think this build would also be effective in PvP for guarding and peeling off healers and also teaming with DPS to guard and assist them.

[HarleysRule]

My feedback is based purely on PvE.

 

Defense Guardians were already the lowest DPS tank and class in the game (with Immortal Juggies, of course), and yet somehow you felt the need to massively nerf their damage? The threat increase was nice, but we still have to be able to do some actual damage, and not just pretend damage. It was painful soloing/leveling a Defense Guardian before you nerfed their damage...now it's just not worth it.

 

There are too many worthless skills in the defense tree. Solidified Force and Command need to affect more than 1 skill. Nerfing Blade Barricade and the forcing us to spend 3 pts on SSM just to get the defense back while taking away the damage was totally uncalled for...it now takes leveling Defense Guardians longer to max out their passive defense chance, while suffering a drastic DPS drop at the same time.

 

It's not really worth going past tier 4 for Blade Barrier and Statis Mastery. Courage is OK, but Effluence is better and only costs 1 pt. Hilt Strike should have the cooldown reduced to 45 seconds if you insist on keeping the damage nerf. Shield Specialization should also buff absorption 2/4% or add a chance to add focus upon shielding. Inner Peace should work on all damage types, since we don't get an Endurance adding option like every other class gets.

 

I'm surprised ANYONE still runs a 31 pt Defense Guardian. Our 31 pt skill is now totally worthless. Cyclone Slash hits more targets, uses less focus, is spammable, and no one cares about Guardian Slash's knockdown, since it only works on trash. I'd bet a vast majority of Guards would rather have the damage back than the "smart" AoE.

 

BTW Focused Defense in Soresu form should generate extra threat, not reduce it. Is there any reason you gave Guardians a level 38 skill that is less than useless (and actually harmful) for tank spec Guardians?

 

Vigilance tree has better defense passives than Defense tree (i.e. Unremitting and Commanding Awe). A spec like 23 Vig/18 Def is a better tank than a 31 Def/10 Vig build, and that's just wrong.

Edited July 17, 2012 by HarleysRule

[Yamirashi]

Defense Spec:

 

1. Mobile and Hard to bring down. Hits like a wet noodle.

 

2.Very Mobile, and die rather quickly against certain classes (like inquisitors) without proper support (like good healers). Wish I could hit as hard as even a wet noodle.

[Mediv]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

In PvE Guardians tanks are perceived to have the least DPS of all tanks and have problems with holding AoE threat (even though the issue was resolved).

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

My current PvP spec

I use it as a tank spec and occasionally change stances for some increased dmg output if the situation requires. I am very happy with how my character plays with that spec (most of the issues I found with pure Defense spec are gone).

 

What i think the class is lacking atm is a base ability stun every single stun available to the guardian requires heavy specing into Defense tree.

 

I think that pure Defense PvP tanks spec has some issue atm (which is why I play this hybrid build)

 

I find that focus generation penalty placed on Soresu is hurting the class in PvP and the tools provided by the Defense tree to alleviate the issue aren't working well in PvP. We can't reliably count on being hit for long enough (and survive) to generate any meaningful amounts of focus which limits our dmg output sigificantly. I understand that tanks dmg output isn't supposed to be high it doesn't mean it should be this low either.

 

The lack of focus generation in PvP scenario in Soresu also limits use of Focused Defense - cost is way to high (not a problem in Shien) and the benefits are limited (too low amount healed - compared to average hit received in PvP). Without damage resistance provided by specing high into Vigilance its just not worth it as it effectively brings our focus generation to 0. I think Focused Defense should have different effect based on lightsaber form used.

 

Also the fact that Unremitting is unreachable in a 31pts Defense build is a nail in the coffin for that spec.

 

 

My current PvE spec

 

I haven't run into any problems with this spec - holding AoE threat is a lot easier now. Focus generation is fine. Survivability is fine. I don't know how does my dmg output compares to other tanks (didn't have time/chance to compare it).

[MimicUnleashed]

Vigilance Spec

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I'm more valued for being able to Guardian Leap a target than for my damage. My Guardian Leap is planned on Sentinels and Gunslingers so they don't pull aggro in certain OPs. I don't bring any utility beyond that, so while the group knows it needs Inspiration or maybe Defense Screen, they can live without my Guardian Leap and if a DPS has to die because there's not enough heals to go around then it will be me.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I take far too much AOE damage without a reducer in my tree, I see far too many tanks using my skills to tank with so I feel like I'm a DPS-geared tank, and honestly with my burns tickling bosses rather than actually hurting them I feel like I'm holding my OPs team back. Even at my gear level Burning Blade only does 600-ish damage over 6 seconds. I have a Sentinel who's dots tick for about 600 a pop. Not to mention Plasma Brand's dot clips and doesn't get the damage it should.

 

Suggestion: Move Unremitting lower in the tree. This is a big thing for tanks, and I love having it as a Vig, why not share? Fix the dot damages. They should last until the ability that put them on can cooldown, and obviously in the case of overhead and bladestorm hit much harder. And remove Narrowed Focus. It's worthless. Give Shien-Form only an AOE damage reducer. Also Sundering Throw should let you hurl your saber at point-blank as well.

 

Defense Spec

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Sub par damage, sub par mitigation, and horrible HP. No Endurance increase, no good resistance to non-shieldable abilities (this is why Shadows are popular), and Guardian Slash is complete trash.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I agree. I stopped trying to tank when it became clear that daily modded Vanguards and Shadows were out-performing me in Columni gear. Guardian Slash use to be ok. The damage was good, the cooldown wasn't. But I was ok with it for the most part. Now that it doesn't do any damage to speak of, has no utility on a boss, and is at the top of a tree that is less useful for tanking than Vig? Forget it. Enure is almost as bad. It shouldn't go off raw HP, when it ends it should leave you at the same %. That way you don't have it end with 1 HP and immediately die from a bug-bite.

 

Suggestions: Make Guardian Slash a baseline ability. Put something far better at the top of the tank tree. An anti-force/tech cooldown? Rework Courage so you gain 1 focus every time you deflect, parry or dodge an attack. Solves the entire Soresu issue. Giving Defense a damage reducer (not just accuracy) would be nice, or even a +endurance talent. How about moving Stasis Mastery far lower in the tree? Tanks want Unremitting, I'm sure Vig and Focus want Stasis Mastery.

Edited July 17, 2012 by MimicUnleashed

[Felli]

I have a level 50 guardian who used to run defense spec. Now she doesn't run at all. Really.

 

1. How do others perceive you?

The gimp of the tanks. We do no damage and have less survivability than any other tank class. But our buff is nice.

 

2. How do I perceive my spec?

Honest answer: "THIS IS NOT WORTH PLAYING." You gave the best storyline in the game to a a class that is completely worthless to play in your game. We can't keep threat. We can't do damage. We are the worst of all worlds. If we could soak-tank, we'd be better. But we can't compete in even throwing our meager HP pool at the enemy. We are the worst. If I hadn't had the character since day 1 of pre-release, I'd delete her for a shadow or vanguard. It is THAT bad.

[Marqhill]

1) I play a Vigilance Guardian and as others have said the General perception is that the DPS is weaker than with other classes. Generally at the end of a war zone I'm not at the top of war zone damage charts unless I outgear my opponents by a certain amount. If we're on equal gear my damage is still good in a 1v1 fight but other DPS classes like the Assault/Pyrotech Vanguard/Powertech or a Marauder/Sentinel will have a solid advantage vs. me in single target DPS.

 

2) I enjoy playing my class rather a great deal. The rotation and fluidity of the Vigilance DPS spec is all there. The single Target DPS could be a bit better in some respects. Not a huge deal better but just a little bit. I also think that Plasma Brand should be adjusted. The DOT should be a shorter duration but apply the same amount of damage. Additionally, it should apply a snare to make it more comparable to Force Exhaustion. Force Exhaustion does more damage, has a 10 meter range and applies a snare.

[pieceofjunk]

I am talented for Tanking Guardian.

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

Other classes (that I play with) have no problem with my spec. They think it is a little underpowered for tanking large groups but does well on Bosses in Flashpoints and Ops.

 

2.How do you perceive your own spec?

I feel that the Guardian has some holes in tanking.

A)We do not get access to a talent that boosts our endurance so we are behind the HP curve of other tanks.

 

B)The changes to Guardian Slash are horrible and I will probably spec out of it. While I currently use it because of the extra threat it has little real use in End Game tanking. CC's are used so much in Ops that I rarely get to attack extra enemies with it and the range on the extra targets seems to be short, I am not sure as the range is NOT defined in the tool-tip. It is so high Defense Tree that it is useless for leveling up where the changes would make the most impact. I would rather have the single target higher damage version back it would be more useful.

 

C)Command and Solidified force are never worth taking, Freezing force only Procs Opportune Strike which can't be used in End Game content because most enemies and all bosses are not affected by movement slowing or immobilize. The same goes for Pommel strike and how it Procs. I hate that 2 of my better attacks are unusable in End Game Content. Reducing the cool-down of Force Push has little true value since in groups it is often not advantageous to throw and enemy that far, especially if you have melee DPS in the group.

 

D) The cool-down on Hilt Strike could be reduced with the Damage lowering even though it no longer costs focus.

 

E) Focused Defense. I loved the idea of this when it came out in 1.2 but in all practicality I never use it. The dumping of threat makes it unusable in groups of any kind. As a tank a Threat Dump is useless and detrimental to group play.