ArchangelLBC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 4 second stun? And that CD is not on a 45s CD all the time, they have to spec into it. http://db.darthhater.com/abilities/1103/force_camouflage/ Yep 4s stun on one person totally the same as stealthing out of combat and gaining a movement speed bonus to run the hell away. Also what talent is that? Seems it's naturally on a 45s cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) /\this i think people forget that sent/mara have no ranged abilities They don't need any when they can cover any combat distance instantly. When people are fighting me they are smart, they stun me, slow me, pacify/obfuscate me, taunt me constantly, and guard who i am attacking me if the team has played against me numerous times. That's what you gotta do imo, focus them down you can't let a Sentinel/Marauder just run free in a big battle... i now know why i get focused on my Sentinel more then any of my other characters... Ah so it takes a team working together just to beat lil ol' you. That seems fair. Edited July 21, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) They don't need any when they can cover any combat distance instantly. Ah so it takes a team working together just to beat lil ol' you. That seems fair. Lol never said i was a raid boss, you know how squishy Marauders and Sentinels are (most of them) it only takes a bit of focus and they are either running or dead if they have no healer or support. Edited July 21, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csdabest Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 We have 1 Gap closer. Zero Knock backs.(while other classes have Gap closers and knock bac) Dont start with the ability to Burst all our Heavy hitting attacks off the bat. We have to build up to them. If we are not stunned. No ranged attacks. When we root you still have the option of attacking. When we get rooted we cant attack. 4-6 seconds of stealth that can easily be broken. two of our heavy hitting attacks dont work in PVP. I think we are the only class that have two attacks that dont work in pvp. 1 Short stun while other classes have multiple. Trying leveling a sent. And grinding gear for them. Especially back at launch when Getting through Story was a rediculous challenge having to outlevel each world to run through it. The sentinels that are owning people right now are probably the same ones who first rolled sent and L2P while the other classes had smooth sailing and was just playing instead of L2P. They finaly balanced things out better And made the sents playable. So the actually skilled Sents that stuck with the class who L2P now can beat you down because you dont know your class good enough to stop their techniques. Here Ill give you a quick quide Root/stun>GBTF/Undying RageQ. But what if they have a pocket healer or use a medpack.A. Have a pocket healer and use a medpack aswell. and 9/10 They burned through their defensive Cool Downs Root/Stun>Rebuke/ResoluteQ. They can break stuns and roots with Stealth and their resolve barA. If your not a Sent/Mara you most likely have more Roots and Stuns than they can break out of them. Strategically place burn them To void their CC. Dont attack when Rebuke is up cuz it just refreshes it. And gives back some damage to you All other PVP issues can be resolved with a quick state. If your in a WZ Gear check yourself and know your role. And Use team work. Dont complain about a Sent/Mara having a pockethealer and being unbeteable when you can have a pocket healer yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 We have 1 Gap closer. Zero Knock backs.(while other classes have Gap closers and knock bac) Dont start with the ability to Burst all our Heavy hitting attacks off the bat. We have to build up to them. If we are not stunned. No ranged attacks. When we root you still have the option of attacking. When we get rooted we cant attack. 4-6 seconds of stealth that can easily be broken. two of our heavy hitting attacks dont work in PVP. I think we are the only class that have two attacks that dont work in pvp. 1 Short stun while other classes have multiple. Trying leveling a sent. And grinding gear for them. Especially back at launch when Getting through Story was a rediculous challenge having to outlevel each world to run through it. The sentinels that are owning people right now are probably the same ones who first rolled sent and L2P while the other classes had smooth sailing and was just playing instead of L2P. They finaly balanced things out better And made the sents playable. So the actually skilled Sents that stuck with the class who L2P now can beat you down because you dont know your class good enough to stop their techniques. Here Ill give you a quick quide Root/stun>GBTF/Undying Rage Q. But what if they have a pocket healer or use a medpack. A. Have a pocket healer and use a medpack aswell. and 9/10 They burned through their defensive Cool Downs Root/Stun>Rebuke/Resolute Q. They can break stuns and roots with Stealth and their resolve bar A. If your not a Sent/Mara you most likely have more Roots and Stuns than they can break out of them. Strategically place burn them To void their CC. Dont attack when Rebuke is up cuz it just refreshes it. And gives back some damage to you All other PVP issues can be resolved with a quick state. If your in a WZ Gear check yourself and know your role. And Use team work. Dont complain about a Sent/Mara having a pockethealer and being unbeteable when you can have a pocket healer yourself. Couldn't of said it better myself ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 We have 1 Gap closer. Zero Knock backs.(while other classes have Gap closers and knock bac) Dont start with the ability to Burst all our Heavy hitting attacks off the bat. We have to build up to them. If we are not stunned. No ranged attacks. When we root you still have the option of attacking. When we get rooted we cant attack. 4-6 seconds of stealth that can easily be broken. two of our heavy hitting attacks dont work in PVP. I think we are the only class that have two attacks that dont work in pvp. 1 Short stun while other classes have multiple. Wow you make a good point. Guys we've got it all wrong. Sents/Maras are actually pretty gimp in PVP! How could we have not seen it? My DPS Commando heart bleeds for you little guy. How have you managed to persevere in an environment so hostile to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Lol never said i was a raid boss, you know how squishy Marauders and Sentinels are (most of them) it only takes a bit of focus and they are either running or dead if they have no healer or support. So you're saying that 1v6 you die quickly. Go figure. But if you do have heals and support, let's say 3v6.... What? You win then? Still seems fair /sarcasm Edited July 21, 2012 by Daiyukie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmBattledMango Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Haven't read all 11 pages so I'm sorry if this has been said before. To everyone claiming that Maras are OP, they're not. They are the definition of a glass cannon. They'll hit you really hard but they will also die quickly. The idea of the Mara is to come in, do heaps of damage then either A: Die or B: Kill the opponent. The best way to stop a Mara is your CC or Stuns or range. If you're more than 10M away from us, we're doomed. We jump in, you stun, you run, we chase, we die. Even people that use the "You have a 99% damage reduction move" excuse, did you also know that it costs 50% of our health? You can heal yourself for 6 seconds or stun us and then our move was wasted and we half killed ourselves for you. Maras aren't OP at all. People that use them just know HOW to use them. And everyone else needs to know HOW to stop them. Either with more DPS than us, healing or CC. And you should always be careful of carnage Maras when your health is low. Even in PVP. Whilst it may not be the PVP oriented spec, it's style of play is to do bursts. Best people to attack as Carnage, low on health characters. Stop my initial burst stunning me or out-heal my damage and I'm pretty much doomed. most people at the beginning of WZ jump on the Maras anyway. Anything more than a 1on1 and most Maras will lose out. To beat a class you must know the class. Once you realise you CC and good healers stop Maras in their tracks, it's Pyros you need to start worrying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Haven't read all 11 pages so I'm sorry if this has been said before. To everyone claiming that Maras are OP, they're not. They are the definition of a glass cannon. They'll hit you really hard but they will also die quickly. The idea of the Mara is to come in, do heaps of damage then either A: Die or B: Kill the opponent. You sure you aren't getting confused with DPS Operatives? Because as far as I can tell, you have a short CD Vanish that mitigates 50% damage, near-constant 20% flat damage reduction on top of ~25% damage reduction from armor, 99% damage immunity for 5 seconds and long cooldown that increases melee and ranged evasion by 50% and reduces the damage taken from Force and Tech attacks by 25% for 12 seconds. If you think that's a glass cannon, I'd hate to hear your definition of a steel cannon. 80% damage immunity for 15 seconds on a 10 second cooldown as well as all the others, perhaps? That data point seems to fit the curve you've outlined. Edited July 21, 2012 by Daiyukie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikeru Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 http://db.darthhater.com/abilities/1103/force_camouflage/ Yep 4s stun on one person totally the same as stealthing out of combat and gaining a movement speed bonus to run the hell away. Also what talent is that? Seems it's naturally on a 45s cooldown. My apologies I thought you meant the other one. You must spec for the ms bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) So you're saying that 1v6 you die quickly. Go figure. But if you do have heals and support, let's say 3v6.... What? You win then? Still seems fair /sarcasm Not really, heals ok like you said 3v6, what would happen to the healer if 6 where focusing down what 1 healer like you said? And trust me, unless your super squishy or just plain terrible a Marauder will not be able to burn down 6 people that fast. Edited July 21, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikeru Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You sure you aren't getting confused with DPS Operatives? Because as far as I can tell, you have a short CD Vanish that mitigates 50% damage, near-constant 20% flat damage reduction on top of ~25% damage reduction from armor, 99% damage immunity for 5 seconds and long cooldown that increases melee and ranged evasion by 50% and reduces the damage taken from Force and Tech attacks by 25% for 12 seconds. If you think that's a glass cannon, I'd hate to hear your definition of a steel cannon. 80% damage immunity for 15 seconds on a 10 second cooldown as well as all the others, perhaps? That data point seems to fit the curve you've outlined. The 20% damage reduction only applies for 6s, it reapplies itself if you keep hitting us. If you keep hitting us it last for a max of 30s with a 1min CD. I wouldn't call it a cannon, doesn't have the range. Maybe a lightsaber? =P We disagree on something (T_T) Sad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 To everyone claiming that Maras are OP, they're not. They are the definition of a glass cannon. They'll hit you really hard but they will also die quickly. The idea of the Mara is to come in, do heaps of damage then either A: Die or B: Kill the opponent. The best way to stop a Mara is your CC or Stuns or range. If you're more than 10M away from us, we're doomed. We jump in, you stun, you run, we chase, we die. Even people that use the "You have a 99% damage reduction move" excuse, did you also know that it costs 50% of our health? You can heal yourself for 6 seconds or stun us and then our move was wasted and we half killed ourselves for you. Do you actually know what the definition of glass cannon is? You should really go play a class that doesn't have all your retarded survivability. Go play a DPS Merc or Commando if you really want to know the definition of glass cannon (some would claim it's more glass than cannon but meh). Or hell, if you wanna stay at the top of the warzone food chain go play Pyro PT. They fold like a cheap card table once they blow their one defensive cooldown, and their gap closer is on a 45s cooldown. The idea of a mara or sent is to come in, do heaps of damage and then either A: Kill the Opponent, or B: Stealth out and run away if you aren't going to kill your opponent. C: Stealth out and use your movement speed boost to run to the health pickup, come back and kill the opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 So would you agree that everyone should have an ability that lets them call no joy and get out of a bad situation on a 45s cooldown? Yeah, as long as everyone gets a gun, and cover, and healing, and heavy armor, and... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah, as long as everyone gets a gun, and cover, and healing, and heavy armor, and... You may gladly have my healing and heavy armor in exchange for an ability to get out of a bad situation on a 45s cooldown. You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers, which won't be hard since it's not like your class has a hard time going toe to toe with most anyone. Maras/Sents seem to have no real perspective on how absolutely overpowered their defensive cool downs are, and funny thing is I don't even want them nerfed. Keep them all. I just think every class should have the ability to get out of combat in a bad situation same as every class has an ability to fight at their intended range. Say what you want about how OP Pyros are, but at least they kill or they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) You may gladly have my healing and heavy armor in exchange for an ability to get out of a bad situation on a 45s cooldown. You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers, which won't be hard since it's not like your class has a hard time going toe to toe with most anyone. Maras/Sents seem to have no real perspective on how absolutely overpowered their defensive cool downs are, and funny thing is I don't even want them nerfed. Keep them all. I just think every class should have the ability to get out of combat in a bad situation same as every class has an ability to fight at their intended range. Say what you want about how OP Pyros are, but at least they kill or they die. Our cooldowns are not overpowered lol not even...sure we can escape a bad situation, that's the point. Your not suppose to take a Marauder/Sentinel head on alone, when we get jumped we need some way of escape to catch our breath...so again we are not overpowered at all. And how can you compare us to Pyros they are an entire different class... Edited July 21, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helistin Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Maras/Sents seem to have no real perspective on how absolutely overpowered their defensive cool downs are, and funny thing is I don't even want them nerfed. Keep them all. I just think every class should have the ability to get out of combat in a bad situation same as every class has an ability to fight at their intended range. Say what you want about how OP Pyros are, but at least they kill or they die. I don't have a problem either with the amount of damage they do. It's the best defensice cooldowns that decide the match when damage and healing are about equal. Living the extra 10-15 seconds and prolonging a fight on a node/door compared to other classes is a huge advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Marauders/Sentinels are not overpowered, not even...=D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Our cooldowns are not overpowered lol not even...sure we can escape a bad situation, that's the point. Your not suppose to take a Marauder/Sentinel head on alone, when we get jumped we need some way of escape to catch our breath...so again we are not overpowered at all. And how can you compare us to Pyros they are an entire different class... I can compare you to Pyros because along with you they're considered the current OP FOTM classes, and someone had the HILARIOUS notion of calling Sents/Maras glass cannons which isn't even close to being true. And yes, I know the point is to get you out of a bad situation. Why do you need some way to escape and catch your breath if you get jumped. If you get jumped you should flat out die. Shouldn't have been alone. And why should you be able to escape and catch your breath EVERY FORTY FIVE SECONDS? "Hey we're not OPd we need the ability to get out of any situation we can't just DPS our way out of. So you see not OPd at all" You know what my commando does when they get jumped? They die. You know what I define as being jumped on my commando? Being engaged one on one while alone by any class that isn't a merc/commando. Do you know what options I have to escape and catch my breath? Speak up in ops chat and hope to God someone shows up before I die. Even the classes that are meant to engage out of stealth but are bad in a straight up fight, which maras most certainly are NOT, can't call no joy and get out every 45 seconds. Shadows' vanish is on a 2 minute cooldown. I'm not actually entirely sure if scoundrels even get such an ability and those are classes that are DESIGNED to attack from stealth and not be great in a straight up 1v1 situation (well....Infil Shadows anyway). Maybe you're right. Maybe you aren't overpowered. Hell I even said I didn't want those abilities of yours nerfed. You need them right? I just think that everyone else is underpowered. Give them similar abilities. You can't argue that everyone having a variety of defensive abilities on varying cooldowns would make fights a lot more interesting. Marauders/Sentinels are not overpowered, not even...=D Hey maybe by saying it often enough, you'll eventually make it true. (Hint: you won't) Edited July 21, 2012 by ArchangelLBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leathen Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Our cooldowns are not overpowered lol not even...sure we can escape a bad situation, that's the point. Your not suppose to take a Marauder/Sentinel head on alone, when we get jumped we need some way of escape to catch our breath...so again we are not overpowered at all. And how can you compare us to Pyros they are an entire different class... Yes they are - apply the same duration on the cooldowns to other classes then ! Marau/Sent skills are available pretty much EVERY fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelstaroo Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It just depends what class u r good at cuz my madness/lightning sorcerer always gets the most dmg every match. I have yet to top my sorcerer dmg with my marauder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I can compare you to Pyros because along with you they're considered the current OP FOTM classes, and someone had the HILARIOUS notion of calling Sents/Maras glass cannons which isn't even close to being true. And yes, I know the point is to get you out of a bad situation. Why do you need some way to escape and catch your breath if you get jumped. If you get jumped you should flat out die. Shouldn't have been alone. And why should you be able to escape and catch your breath EVERY FORTY FIVE SECONDS? Um yes, when you see a Marauder or Sentinel you should focus them if there is no healer. That's what a good team would do, so we need it. "Hey we're not OPd we need the ability to get out of any situation we can't just DPS our way out of. So you see not OPd at all" You know what my commando does when they get jumped? They die. Not my fault, your a commando you fight at range. Your not on the field taking massive damageYou know what I define as being jumped on my commando? Being engaged one on one while alone by any class that isn't a merc/commando. Do you know what options I have to escape and catch my breath? Speak up in ops chat and hope to God someone shows up before I die. Even the classes that are meant to engage out of stealth but are bad in a straight up fight, which maras most certainly are NOT, can't call no joy and get out every 45 seconds. Shadows' vanish is on a 2 minute cooldown. THAT TAKE'S THEM OUT OF COMBAT, if your in a 1v1 as a Assassin you have a really cheap trick. Vanish-Mind Trap-Seethe can we do that? no we can only run as far away as possible and hope they do not see us...I'm not actually entirely sure if scoundrels even get such an ability and those are classes that are DESIGNED to attack from stealth and not be great in a straight up 1v1 situation (well....Infil Shadows anyway). Maybe you're right. Maybe you aren't overpowered. Hell I even said I didn't want those abilities of yours nerfed. You need them right? I just think that everyone else is underpowered. Give them similar abilities. You can't argue that everyone having a variety of defensive abilities on varying cooldowns would make fights a lot more interesting. Hey maybe by saying it often enough, you'll eventually make it true. (Hint: you won't) Comments in bold, stop complaining and just have fun =D the more you face them the more you'll get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yes they are - apply the same duration on the cooldowns to other classes then ! Marau/Sent skills are available pretty much EVERY fight. You just don't get it, without all those skills we would get terminated. When we get jumped our hp is vanishing what can we do. Pop defensive cd's or run away with Camo...without those we would be so underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Lol never said i was a raid boss, you know how squishy Marauders and Sentinels are (most of them) it only takes a bit of focus and they are either running or dead if they have no healer or support. They're not squishy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) They're not squishy at all. KK, whats better 3.6k armor on my Sentinel or 6.5k on these god foresaken Assassins along with what 35% damage reduction and not including shield. My sentinel only have about 25%, you know what makes up for that our defensive cooldown's... again as i said before we are squishy and we are not overpowered =D Edited July 21, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts