chimunga Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) OP here, back from the dead! Interesting, very interesting. I think that I may have underestimated how seriously many people take the game. Personally, I cannot see how one can realistically compare the sense of achievement of competing at the Olympics or winning the Super Bowl with grinding gear in this game. That is extrapolation in the extreme. For me, it's just a game and nothing more. If you do well (however you classify that), then well done, but let's keep things in context. Perhaps the issue is the perceived inequality that my view presents. But don't panic! It's just a view. However, I still haven't read a convincing reason why players should not be allowed to buy gear (barring of course the fact that it is not allowed as the current game rules stand). Lots of sweeping statements, yes, but no causal link between how I may like to play and the direct dimunition of others' enjoyment. I could understand the position better, if for example paying money would entitle you to medical care at another's expense, but not in the context of a video game. For the avoidance of doubt and as a couple of replies suggest, I am not interested in acquiring gear to show off by hanging around parts of the space station. At the risk of sounding disingenuous, I think at that point I would need to re-examine my whole life from scratch. What you have to understand is that MMO players are a peculiar bunch. We come from all walks of life. But there is one thing we usually have in common. We're trying to get away from the real world. Not always because the real world sucks for us, but because it's just nice to get away for a while. When you introduce real world money into a game like that it effects the whole psychology of the game. It's no longer a game of using you skills or perseverance to succeed. sure, you might think you're not effecting the other people's playing enjoyment when you buy the game, bu you are. You put no time or effort into getting it. You might say that you put the time and effort in to get the money to pay for the items, but alas, in the peculiar world of MMO's, that does not count. You could be a hardworking entrepreneur millionaire philanthropist up against a 14 year-old virgin with bad acne, and the person who puts the time and effort in the game should be the one that is on top, regardless of societal status, If you take that away, and add a Real world monetary value to in-game items, it takes away the great equalizer that is the anonymous internet. Let me expand a little further on how you buying items effects other people enjoyment. A big part of MMO's is showing off what you have. Titles, lightsaber crystals, hard to get or creative gear. It's all a big "who's is bigger" contest. And younno what? That's okay. It not only creates some healthy (and unhealthy) competition, it also give the people that don't have it something to strive for. But when you are able to buy the gear that people worked so hard for in-game, it's cheapens it. The whole experience. You always end up wondering to yourself "Did that guy play really hard to get what he has, or did he just buy it?" Keep in mind that this is also from the point of view of a casual gamer. I'm not saying this because I have something that I don't want you to have. I'm saying this because I hate pay to play MMOs. The answer to your question is very simple and is not an opinion or a theory. MMOS have all shared one key "carrot on a stick" mechanic that keeps people playing and that is the drive to get better gear. The minute you start selling people gear you lose that hook and without it your game will die a quick death. Also this ^ Edited July 17, 2012 by chimunga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskachat Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Gear is a way to achieve, not the achievement itself. ("Rendez-nous notre rire stupide" = "Give us back our stupid laugh" for us Scoundrels who don't laugh anymore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I've bought the game and paid for my subs, just as the rest of you have. I now find that this game (like many other mmorpgs) all but locks you out of the high end content unless you have silly amounts of time to spend getting the ridiculous gear that imbalances pretty much everything. In these games gear is everything, with perhaps a little sprinkling of co-ordination of one's keyboard fingers. I work hard and have young kids, meaning that I'm lucky to get on once or twice each week. There is no chance of me getting my pvp kit to play at a fair level or join operations. I have one 50th level character. At the exponential rate of gear-upping (if that term should exist), I will simply never be able to take part in aspects of the game I already pay for. So why can't I just pay Bioware, or EA or whoever money to furnish my character with the required gear? I have some money but little time. The usual argument against this is for players to be rewarded for the time they put into the game. They already do and I have no problem with that - the usual rewards through the usual channels will always be there. But for the remainder like me, why not let us purchase what we need to at least participate in the end game stuff? The players that spend time will still be rewarded by having heavier wallets! I know many will be against buying your way to gear (and eventual success?), but it's the same in real life. For example, if I wash my clothes I don't first mine minerals, refine them and then design and construct a washing machine. I go and buy one as I do not possess the technical know-how or have the time to do otherwise. Why is this game any different? Money exists to allow people to acquire goods and services that you do not know how to provide and/or have the time to provide. Also, selling gear through official channels would stamp out (or at least impact) the farmers you can look up on any internet search. The market is there, just no one wants to admit it. As I understand it, the game is for fun and, in my eyes, not another set of burning hoops that I need to jump through to get my money's worth through my subs. Let me just buy my gear! Don't worry you will be able to soon and all the legacy perks as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 has it really come to this. player are no so lazy and inept they want to be able to to just spend real money to buy everything rather then earn it. This is why MMOs of today are terrible. 5 years ago MMOs were about building your character to be bad *** and it took months to years to do so. Now people want to have everything the best it can possible be with no time invested. The epicly sad thing is the dumb game devs are doing it because they think that is what will make them money, and yet they wonder why they lose over half a million subs within 3 months due to people getting bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) It invalidates nothing. If people feel that they're enjoyment of the game is based on how other players get items, then I have to ask wether they're playing for the right reasons. Is the main goal of this game acquiring end level gear really? I would say not, the aim of the game is to have fun. People get too hung up on stuff, that's all it is, just digital clothes. So I would have to respectfully disagree with your first point. And based on the fact that a good percentage of players do not raid, I would imagine I'm not alone in thinking endgame is not the goal in swtor. Yes it does invalidate it. If a person works hours in game for it and then someone comes by and says, oh I just bought it, it does cheapen their effort. What you don't get is that it has to do with equal value. If, for example it takes hours of gameplay to get a piece of gear, then to give it equal value, this should be reflected in the actual buying price. So if it costs 10 bucks for a complete set of items then the time spent in game is set at that value. If it takes 20 hours to collect a full set of gear then it equates to 50 cents per hour. Nobody in their right mind would consider working at that rate in this part of the world. Say what you will, but when you assign a money value to something, this is what happens. Whether they are playing for the right reasons is completely biased. You cannot decide for others why they can play. A lot of people enjoy collecting gear and feeling a sense of achievement. If that is not your style then fine but this comment of yours is without any foundation and completely biased as stated. Also I said that the main point of endgame is gear progression. The fact that a number of people don't do endgame is completely irrelevant to my point. That is simply your misinterpretation. As for your second point, I'm not sure how buying endgame gear devalues gear you need to level in. That doesn't make sense to me. As for putting pressure on people to buy gear to get into guilds, or group, there is already that pressure. We see people asking for a gear checker in the group finder system. There would be no difference. Again your misinterpretation I am not talking about leveling gear. I am talking about gear progression at level 50...tionese, columi and rakata will become obsolete when BH gear is buyable. As for people quitting over it, I don't get why. They can get the gear, so why quit because someone else got it differently. It's not about getting it differently, it's about getting it too easily. The effort involved is much less and this is exactly the point of invalidation or devaluation of their efforts. I guess I've got a different outlook on life, I play games to have fun, and I've got no problem with other players getting stuff through other means. It's simply not a big deal to me. Again you are being biased. Fun is different things for different people. Gearing up in endgame is fun to a lot of people. The point that I am making is that the OP's suggestion will destroy what's fun for a lot of other people and I have no indication that you or him even consider other people in this, especially since he wants to play an MMO but has hardly any time for it. That right there is a contradiction. MMOs are built around the concept of being able to play continually and build your toon up over time. The only issue here is that Mr. OP has limited time and limited patience at the same time. I do not think other people should have their fun taken away, whether you understand them or not, simply because some people have a character flaw and can't accept that if they have little time to invest, that it will take longer. That's my view. Edited July 17, 2012 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlbo_Nabbins Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) How is it selfish? What he wants completely defeats the purpose of PLAYING a video game. You say you want to spend money on gear to do then content but the excuse for wanting to buy gear is not having time to play. If you want to do high end content you still have to put the time in to do it. It logically makes no sense. Simply put he just wants the gear and doesn't give a rats *** about actually playing the game. You are correct, if the OP can't find the time to do 1 hour FP/OPs runs to get geared up then there is no way they can have the time for the longer HM FP/OPs runs that they want to buy gear for. Edited July 17, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapono Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 If I had a choice between grinding the same quests over and over and over and over and over and over to get gear and just dishing out another $10 for my characters to have a top-notch set of gear when I hit 50 with them, I think I'd go with the $10. I hate dailies. Blizzard's tendency to characterize dailies as "meaningful and interesting content" was one of the things that led me to unsubscribe from WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monthigos Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I've bought gear with real money and it always feels a little hollow. I personally think cash transactions should be kept to cosmetic items only as it only causes resentment among players. If you've got money to burn you could always hire someone to play your account. and get the gear for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Bottom line, buying the rewards as opposed to earning through through the intended game play is no different than a cheat code you can put into a single player game to gain invulnerability, all the unlocked weapons or bonus items, etc. Nothing morally or intrinsically wrong with it in itself but in the realm of a MMOG, it is not a desirable avenue to acquire gear to many players. Many players put in a large amount of focused effort to acquire rare gear. Regardless of your personal income level or anything else...everyone has the same chance to acquire that gear. The steps in game are open to everyone....but some choose not to put forth the effort to gain the item, or title, or whatever. I will always be against that being widely implemented because regardless of others understanding of the points made, it does detract from the sense of accomplishment those who have earned it appropriately through game play have achieved. BW could just make a server where anything goes. Cash can buy you anything from max level to the best gear in game. BUT leave that all on one server where people who feel that is they way they want to play can do so. This way, both groups are happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapono Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Bottom line, buying the rewards as opposed to earning through through the intended game play is no different than a cheat code you can put into a single player game to gain invulnerability, all the unlocked weapons or bonus items, etc. Nothing morally or intrinsically wrong with it in itself but in the realm of a MMOG, it is not a desirable avenue to acquire gear to many players. Many players put in a large amount of focused effort to acquire rare gear. Regardless of your personal income level or anything else...everyone has the same chance to acquire that gear. The steps in game are open to everyone....but some choose not to put forth the effort to gain the item, or title, or whatever. I will always be against that being widely implemented because regardless of others understanding of the points made, it does detract from the sense of accomplishment those who have earned it appropriately through game play have achieved. BW could just make a server where anything goes. Cash can buy you anything from max level to the best gear in game. BUT leave that all on one server where people who feel that is they way they want to play can do so. This way, both groups are happy. I have a difficult time equating "earning" with "mindless boring repetition". I don't feel like I've earned anything by engaging in repetitious behavior, only that I've grinded something out. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyStrong Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 :eek::eek: This is a bad idea and it causes a lot of problems, a good example of this is Diablo 3. Diablo 3's economy is sooooo screwed up to the point that it is now unfixable and the RMAH is the culprit. But, Blizzard doesn't care at all because they already made their money from you buying the game and they are getting more money from RMAH fee's. So as long as Blizz keeps making money from RMAH they won't fix anything because why bother when the money just keeps coming. This will also screw up the credit (gold) economy, if you want to buy anything good from the gold auction house in D3 it will cost you at least 15 million gold and the only way to get that much gold is to vist a gold seller and pay for gold. SWTOR econmy is great and D3'3 is FUBARED Need Proof go to MMOWIN.com D3 gold 1million = $1.60 SWTOR credits 1million = $69.99 You do the MATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardwear Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) :eek::eek: This is a bad idea and it causes a lot of problems, a good example of this is Diablo 3. Diablo 3's economy is sooooo screwed up to the point that it is now unfixable and the RMAH is the culprit. But, Blizzard doesn't care at all because they already made their money from you buying the game and they are getting more money from RMAH fee's. So as long as Blizz keeps making money from RMAH they won't fix anything because why bother when the money just keeps coming. This will also screw up the credit (gold) economy, if you want to buy anything good from the gold auction house in D3 it will cost you at least 15 million gold and the only way to get that much gold is to vist a gold seller and pay for gold. SWTOR econmy is great and D3'3 is FUBARED Need Proof go to MMOWIN.com D3 gold 1million = $1.60 SWTOR credits 1million = $69.99 You do the MATH Agreed ..and as bad as D3 is now just wait till they implement PvP and the people who aquire their gear the old fashioned way realize that they can't compete, because they can't afford to. Edited July 17, 2012 by Hardwear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Pants Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Why can no one understand how blinded they have become? You are so focused on "earning" and "working" and "effort" to get gear that you have all forgotten this is a game. The actual path you take to get gear is supposed to fun. I see no reason at all to feel upset that someone is wearing the same gear as you and you feel somehow that you "deserve" it more than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cshouston Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Technically, you already can... Step 1: Buy credits. How you do it is up to you. Step 2: Buy iLevel 61 Armorings/Mods/Enhancements with said credits. Step 3: Put them all into orange moddable gear. Step 4: ?????? Step 5: Profit & Enjoy your BiS gear with zero time invested. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyStrong Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Technically, you already can... Step 1: Buy credits. How you do it is up to you. Step 2: Buy iLevel 61 Armorings/Mods/Enhancements with said credits. Step 3: Put them all into orange moddable gear. Step 4: ?????? Step 5: Profit & Enjoy your BiS gear with zero time invested. *sigh* :eek:..........................WAIT A MINUTE, your right.....What the hell are we doing having this conversation!?!?!?!?!!? 1. buy credits from goldseller 2. Buy Mods 3. Put mods in orange gear 4. Play the game 5. Profit personaly by getting the gear you want. When I think about this a little part of me dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 SWTOR econmy is great and D3'3 is FUBARED You do the MATH FUBAR means F@cked up beyond all recognition, what does ED stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Pants Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) i would never use real money to pay to win. i dont see the point. however, i also think this is simply a symptom of the real issue. no one is addressing the root cause. mmo players are continually told that if you do not have enough time to devote to the game, you do not deserve any of the good gear. this is a VERY old idea. this is implemented by adding stats to gear. people have been told for years now that adding stats to gear is a way of making you feel as though your character is advancing and growing as you quest / raid / level through the game. players have been told this for so many years very few stop to question it. as i have said, they do allow you to get higher stats, but they do NOT allow you to ever feel more powerful at current and relevant content. At the start of T1, you are in blues. it is kind of tough, but you manage. as T2 comes out, you now have a full set of T1. you can clear T1. but it is no longer relevant, as you dont need that gear because T2 is out. so you hit up T2 in your T1 gear. it is tough, as you are expected to have full T1 to enter, so the mobs HP and their damage output is adjusted to match. you make it through over time, and get your T2. but it is no longer relevant, as T3 is announced and getting released soon. As you are in T2, you can go and SMASH T1 content. You can smash it out without any challenge at all. There is no reason to ofc, as the content is not relevant. there is nothing there you want, as all the STATS are lower than what you have. All you do now, is wait for T3 to be released. There is no reason at all to clear lower content. Why would you? you have the stats you need to enter T3, so now you just wait. This is how a good portion of mmos have been operating for a long time now, and so few players stop to question it. As commented on a few other threads by other ppl, one of the issues swtor has is that you feel like you are advancing your character in other ways from lvl 1 to 50. you feel like you are advancing his/her story, hunting ppl down, hunting items down. then you hit 50 and that ENDS and instead, the only meaningful way to advance your character is to get on the treadmill and start jogging. Transmog is a system that went HALF WAY to solving this problem. Transmog (swtors mod system) has given the player a reason to go back and see the content. Sadly, both wow and swtor missed the mark. they made that content trivial. sure, you can go back and do the content, but when it can be completed without challenge by one player, instead of the intended 5 / 10 / 25 / 40 players, it really loses its thrill. the next great mmo will not follow this system. Stats will be tied to the player more than the gear. your character will still advance in an RPG sense, but more will be tied to the character, and less on the gear. Gear will still exist, but will not take long to collect for the average player after max lvl. Gear will be somewhat standardized allowing content to be released faster, as they know exactly the stats every player will have (within reason) difficulties can still be tuned, you can still have hardmodes of dungeons, but instead of having a higher GEAR requirement, they will have a higher player ability requirement. The harder dungeons will be ideal for those who use Ventrillo or mumble, ideal for guilds who run them as a group, using solid established trust and relationships built over time playing together. you will be rewarded with more intricate looking loot, different dye sets, different weapon models, but not higher stats. why not? because you will not need higher stats. instead of being funneled down one path at endgame, you will be left to freely play as you enjoy. You will work towards one currency, through crafting, exploring, taking part in events, dungeons, and pvp, and social interactions. this one currency can then be used in any way you choose, be it buying better looking gear, buying rare crafting mats, social items, novilty items, or short duration quality of life buffs. the next great mmo will still reward those who excel at any particular aspect of the game, but not by allowing them even more of an advantage over others. If you play alot of pvp, and become very good at pvp, you will start to unlock better looking gear with unique models / skins available only to those who have proven themselves worthy. this gear will NOT give you even more of an edge. it will definitely make you distinct on the battlefield, that's for sure. it will show off how good you are, but will not make you capable of one shotting lesser geared ppl. The next great mmo will keep all content relevant at all times. something that has not yet been achived by other mmos. it will LOWER your power to match the content. since you can transmog your lvl 50 max lvl axe to look like any axe you want, and you REALLY like the look of the lvl 26 axe from the dungeon called....say...."Dungeon of Fritzl", you can go back and get it. but you will need to find a group. if you have a few friends online, be them lvl 26, 36, 46, or 50, you will all be able to group up, and maybe find another llv 28 random whos questing in the area and looking fora group for "Dungeon of Fritzl" once grouped up you will all enter the dungeon and be reduced in HP / DPS to match the lvl 26 content. as a lvl 50, you will have some small advantages, you will have more experience, and most likely better knowledge of the place, but you will still have to work as a team to complete the dungeon. maybe you get the axe, maybe you dont, maybe you will have to run Fritzl's dungeon more than once to get the axe. who knows. now for those who are blinded by what the big companies want you to see, and want you to believe, this will all sound stupid. for those who take the time to stop, step back from the mmo for a moment, and THINK for themselves, you will realise that this system rewards everyone. no one is left out. nothing is simply gifted. the current system is why countless mmos have failed to "change" the way we play, after all promising to do exactly that. The next great mmo will be one that takes a chance. one that strays FAR from the standard mmo gear treadmill. The next great mmo will be one that understands that the vocal minority who scream for harder difficulty, longer timesinks, and massive time investment for any gear are actually exactly that, the minority. The next great mmo will understand that for PvP to be at all competitive, gear needs to be controlled and standardized as far as stats go. The next great mmo will understand that server transfers, character customization, mini games, events and "fluff" are REQUIRED aspects of a successful game, and need to be available FROM LAUNCH. The next great mmo Will have responsive active and dynamic controls and combat, so you feel invloved, instead of just filling in your tax return 133 1442 1124 1134 1123 1143 1124 1124 1133 The next great mmo will understand that even if it does have a subscription, a cash shop for cosmeitc enhancements, pets, mounts etc does no harm to the game, and helps fund the game further. additionally, there will be an understanding that not all ppl have the cash to spend, or are willing to spend it on ingame items, so instead, as an alternative, you will be able to exchange gold / currency earned in game for goods on the cash shop. The next great mmo will also understand something very important.....Buying stats will not allow the game to be taken seriously. Pay to Win is not the way to go. but : The next GREAT mmo will understand WHY a player would want to do that in the first place. they will understand that this is simply a symptom of players not enjoying playing your game. its a symptom of old thinking where you need to do 1 before you can do 2 before you can do 3. Instead, the game will be structured in such a way that players will WANT to complete 1, 2, and 3. the next GREAT mmo will be........... released soon. Edited July 18, 2012 by Darth_Pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think your kids might need those money you are willing to pay for some in-game items darling, just a thought... That's quite an assumption-I suppose next you will say he shouldn't spend the 15/month at all? I mean that could buy his kids a Happy Meal! Just admit that 'hardcores' don't want to see their 'achievement' of grinding operations for weeks equalled by someone with more disposable income than what they have. Apparently forcing players to pay for another month to grind out gear is less 'icky' than those players paying the 15 to get geared up through a transaction. Why MMOs prefer to reward the disabled/unemployed to the exclusion of everyone else is beyond me. Apparently time really is more valuable than money, even time that equates to 15 dollars for 30 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Even if there was a cash shop to do microtransactions, having the top tier gear in the cash shop would be "pay to win", something many players would not stand for. Plus, it would invalidate the reason for the operations - so no one would play them anymore. So raiders don't raid for the challenge, but solely for the gear? Then why do they care if others get that gear? Will it wilt their epeen? If raiders only raid for gear, why not just make one raid and increase the difficulty with each new tier? Why is killing Bonethrasher any more interesting than Soa? So players won't stand for others buying gear, even if it doesn't affect them? No one is forcing players to 'cheat' by buying gear-if you want to beat your head against the wall rather than pay the doorman go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If I could buy the best gear so I can have fun doing warzones a couple of hours a week, I don't see where is the harm. You don't see why that would infuriate pvpers who *have* invested the time and effort (co-ordinating with other people to play in large groups) to get their gear, who already pay a subscription? How would you like it if gear was able to be purchased with real money, but the price was set far too high for your own personal justification? Also, imagine the mess of increased security/hacking problems that real-money gear creates. You mean 'invested' effort like farming lowbies in the first month, farming new 50s after that, farming ilum when it was broken? Oh yes, pvp players really worked for their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Why can't I just buy my gear with real money? There are really two answers to this question. The business answer and the gaming answer. 1) Business answer - because if they allowed you to buy your gear for real money people would quit paying the subscription for a game that is not on an even playing field. This only works in F2P games and at this point the number crunchers at BW/EA have decided that they are making more off of subscriptions than they would allowing F2P but buying gear 2) Gaming answer - In real life money can give you an advantage at every single possible thing. People play games to get away from real life. If the people with all the advantages in real life can simply bring them in to a game then most of the people here would simply leave. Basically it is the equivilant of "I'm out of money in Monopoly so why can't I just buy some more money with real life moeney and keep playing?", because it takes away the entire point of the game. Isn't it fair that there is at least one thing left in life where more money doesn't give you an unfair adavantage? So I take it you don't earn more credits than other players? Credits can offer a very unfair advantage. So you want there to be at least one thing where having a lot of time to perform repetitive tasks is more rewarded than having the money to avoid those tasks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 To the OP and all the others who hold the idea, that people with a lot of time should just grind the gear and people with no time should be able to buy said gear: Did it ever occur to you that not only the people with time constraints would buy the gear? Potentially every person who has enough money to throw around regardless of playtime will buy the gear and disadvantage all those players who can't afford it. Sadly the real world is already pay to win, must it really be the same with video games?! You know that a lot of people play to get away from the capitalist BS for a few hours a day, right? (Not saying that I can think of another society model that would actually work at this time, but capitalism inherently produces huge amounts of inequality in terms of chances.) Tell that to the players that claim to make virtual fortunes on the GTN. Hell nearly every mission gives credits and vendor trash exists to make money. If players wanted to get away from 'capitalist BS' they would play something like Call of Duty which I don't believe drops cash from bodies. Hopefully you give away all your credits to avoid the 'capitalist BS' as you so eloquently put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 That is the same argument people make for LFD; "Well... you don't have to use it" without recognizing that to stay competitive you were forced to use it. Exactly the same obvious breach in logic with spending real money to buy in-game gear. To stay competitive you would have to buy the gear, so every competitive guild would order their players to instantly purchase the best gear available so they could tackle the newest raids to get world-firsts. Therefore, you would be forced to buy your gear. And don't use the "well.. you don't have to buy it" ********, because that just shows that it's impossible for the person to use his own mind and figure out that people would be indirectly forced, same with LFD. People care about world firsts? This isn't the Olympics you know.. Who are you competing with? I thought the point of raids was to beat the NPC, not get done a few minutes before another guild on another continent. So players can't resist peer pressure? How sad for them-perhaps an assertiveness training course is needed? I think respeccing is horrible and players should be forced to reroll if they want to change specs. Bioware is indirectly forcing me by having a respec option, thereby causing other players to expect me to be willing to respec to a different role. This is unacceptable!! The above is pretty much equivalent to your argument right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 So I take it you don't earn more credits than other players? Credits can offer a very unfair advantage. Yeah. But every player has a generally equal means and ability to get credits. That doesn't apply to real world money. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Pants Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Yeah. But every player has a generally equal means and ability to get credits. That doesn't apply to real world money. At all. yes......it does.......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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