What *really* happens when they raise the level cap...

[SithEater]

Gear? prolly no, Mods? most likley.

Actually prolly not for either. Look at their first two content patches. I think (and hope and pray) this will be the way they continue. New without making the old worthless. WoW is the only MMO I have ever played that did it in a way that made all old stuff garbage to be sold to a vendor as soon as you got your first new greens. Edited July 11, 2012 by SithEater

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Usually a level raise in an MMORPG resets everything (all PvE and PvP gear) back to ZERO. And usually it comes along every 1.5 to 2.5 years, along with an expansion with a boat load of content.

 

 

Now SWTOR doesn't seem to be following this model, so who knows.

 

MMOs have put out smaller expansions, I think that smaller expansions more often are better than waiting 2 years for a big expansion.

[Spoletta]

The fact that they are pulling out a lvl cap increase at this stage of top gear is encouraging, we are actually at max lvl +11. If they were to give us a new planet with 3 new levels then campaign gear would become the equivalent of the old rakata and if they raise by 5 you are still wearing columi equivalent.

The gear is definitely not going to be trashed, but new players will be able to reach this level of gear with tier 1/2 hard mode flashpoints, so in a way is a reset. Not a bad thing.

 

I only hope that they will scale actual hard mode flashpoints and NM operations to the new level cap.

[Darth_Rathus]

Apparently, you don't remember when the CoH level cap was 40.

[HarleysRule]

I'm just wondering if an increased level cap means more points to spend on talents. They set the trees up now so you can't reach tier 3 of a second tree if you get the 31 pt talent in your main tree. Presumably, the game is balanced (albeit poorly) around players not having access to higher than tier 2 talents if you're maxed in one tree. Just wait until they nerf the **** out of everything once you get a few more talent points to spend!

[cs_Kimmo]

Currently Everquest 2 has a cap of level 92. So 53 wouldn't be some kind of unique situation in the MMO world. Plus they technically did the last 2 level cap rais outside of an expansion.

 

Please don't mention Everquest 2, or consider that BioWare should mimic it in any way; I get a bad taste in my mouth.

[Goretzu]

MMOs have put out smaller expansions, I think that smaller expansions more often are better than waiting 2 years for a big expansion.

 

There's also expansions like Scars of Velious which have no level addations at all, but masses amounts of extra content for the existing levels.

 

Which would have been my vote for what SWTOR needs in December (if indeed that is when it comes).

[swtonewbie]

So people's precious Campaign gear just gets flushed down the toilet and gear from quests becomes better.. haha.

 

Depending on how BW handles things it could be like that or it could not. But in WoW that was the case when they raised the level cap 10 levels and even 5 levels on the last expac. But people shouldnt be getting attached to their gear anyways. I have several WoW toons that had a lot of epics from the previous 2 expacs. I thought nothing of it when we got a level cap raise and i had to replace what was once BiS with a quest reward. Reason i thought nothing of it, is because i knew that once i hit the new cap there would be new instances and new raids to run.

[leijae]

This may have already been said.

 

Bioware/EA is releasing a new level cap, but that doesn't mean they'll be releasing new super high tiers of gear.

 

As it stands a level 50 can get up to level 61 gear. If just a new tier of gear is released, lets say 64, then they could possibly make level 64 gear attainable only if you have the new level cap (it could be 52 or 55). Either way, are there any lvl 61 greens? No. are there any lvl 58 greens? No. 56? No. 51, even? No. So if you follow that logic, then yes it's possible for there to be either lvl 52 or 55 greens, but not much higher. Then you're QQing turns from "ZOMG I hate grinding" to "ZOMG **** *** BIO/EA why do I have to immerse myself into more stupid story?"

[Leovinus]

Please don't mention Everquest 2, or consider that BioWare should mimic it in any way; I get a bad taste in my mouth.

 

LOL. I never suggested that BW should mimic EQ2. I was using that as an example of a game that had a small, non-expansion based level cap increase. I suspect we'll see something similar in that regard here.

[Ashu-ri]

Usually a level raise in an MMORPG resets everything (all PvE and PvP gear) back to ZERO. And usually it comes along every 1.5 to 2.5 years, along with an expansion with a boat load of content.

 

 

Now SWTOR doesn't seem to be following this model, so who knows.

 

LOTRO is every year....which makes it even more frustrating. If you just got the grinding done to gear out your character, and all of the sudden, there's a new expansion, new levels, new content, and gear that is obsolete in 5 levels.

[dipstik]

the surveymonkey leaks said 2 levels.

 

i really hope my 61 purples are better than the 65 blues. We still need 63 purples from NiMEC...

 

in fact. if they just made it so the new planet (levels 51-52) drops columi gear... that would be awesome. do you class quest to get a class bonus

Edited July 11, 2012 by dipstik

[Riotus]

All this is just a smokescreen to keep you subbed longer so they can take more of your money while keeping you on the endless grind of the hamster wheel w/o adding any more new real content. Hell, they can't stop breaking the game every week, i dread to see what happens even in 1.4 *eep*

 

If you think its so much of a grind why not quit? The real reason they introduce new content and gear is to keep the game interesting. It gets boring running the same content, and eventually u will be full BIS and what then? I cant wait for a new xpac to start over on my knight.

[AllisonBerryman]

We haven't released much official word regarding the level cap increase and its impact yet, but we know it's a topic everyone is going to be very interested in. Make sure to keep an eye on our blog and the dev tracker for updates as they become available. We did have a Q&A question a while back that's related to the topic, so I've quoted it here for you:

 

Kingofthebritons: In last weeks’ announcement, we learned that the level cap will be increased later this year. With this change in mind, will any changes be made to the current PvE endgame? For example, will the difficulties for Hard Mode Flashpoints and Operations be increased to match the new level? If not, could you explain why?

 

Daniel: We’re keeping a tight wrap on details about the level increase later this year until we’ve done far more testing. Right now we have plans and theories but no empirical numbers for what, if any adjustments will need to be made to PvE endgame content.

[Kosef]

We haven't released much official word regarding the level cap increase and its impact yet, but we know it's a topic everyone is going to be very interested in. Make sure to keep an eye on our blog and the dev tracker for updates as they become available. We did have a Q&A question a while back that's related to the topic, so I've quoted it here for you:

 

 

 

You realize that answered absolutely nothing. Why even quote that?

[Coldin]

You realize that answered absolutely nothing. Why even quote that?

 

It is a little silly to make a post that says nothing, and quote from a Q&A that also answers nothing.

 

I guess I'll take away from this that they may be talking about the level cap soonish?

[AllisonBerryman]

You realize that answered absolutely nothing. Why even quote that?

 

It's the most we've said so far, and we feel it's important to let everyone know that we understand the topic is important by acknowledging your posts. Even if we don't have detailed information yet, it can help for us to share the statements we've made. When we have new information, we'll definitely share it, and in the meantime it never hurts to let players know we're reading their concerns and feedback.

Edited July 11, 2012 by AllisonBerryman

[Synxos]

I didn't hear anyone complain when their rakata gear was replaced and outdated by Campaign gear...

It's pretty much the same exact thing.

 

Plus I don't get what you're saying. You have the bis gear, so now the endgame is pointless for you. Why wouldn't you want new ops with new loot?

[GnatB]

End game gear progression is, and always has been, a hamster wheel.

 

If you don't like hamster wheels, don't do it. SImple as that. The whole point is to delay people from unsubbing until they can add new *real* additional content.

[Siorac]

Screw gear, I don't care about that. How the talent point system works in other MMOs at level cap increase?

 

I guess they won't simply allow us to spend some extra talent points on the current trees. A Focus Guardian with Unremitting would be the scourge of every warzone

[Elear]

It's the most we've said so far, and we feel it's important to let everyone know that we understand the topic is important by acknowledging your posts. Even if we don't have detailed information yet, it can help for us to share the statements we've made. When we have new information, we'll definitely share it, and in the meantime it never hurts to let players know we're reading their concerns and feedback.

 

Sadly, 'we know it's important, we're keeping eye on your opinons' is not reply people are happy with, unless you say it bluntly.

It never hurts to let players know you're reading our concerns, but if reply feels like automatic repeating already known info, some of them may get exactly opposite conclusion - you didn't answer any new concern rised here => so you're not reading it.

Even if players know that week ago you said 'we can't give any more info yet', they'll look for that info in each slightly related reply. And without any found, they get sad.

It may seem irrational, but that's how it is, there is a little hurt in telling players what they already know. Dropping any new info, even so insignificant that it seems impossible to be so insignificant, may help. Otherwise, try to make each 'we know' post show that you've read give thread fully and you would like, but can't disclose any new information.

 

I don't mean to tell you how to comminicate with players, just pointing out possible reasons why they are not happy with repies they get.

[Fardarter]

Short answer. Your gear becomes outdated for the new gear. Yes. Greens even.

 

This is the case in World of Warcraft. Less so in a game like Everquest. You are probably right though considering swtor is heavily modeled after WoW. I hope they do something a little different though. Alternate experience would be a good fit I think. I was hoping Legacy would be like AA but it is just another credit sink. Alternater Experience is great because it allows you a way to improve your character outside of gear grinding. As it stands right now gaining experience at 50 offers nothing.

[MaximusRex]

I'm not sure level cap raises are that great overall, and they might even be worse for a game like TOR which part of the appeal seems to be running a bunch of alts for all the stories. Adding levels can be a huge pain for alters.

 

The game doesn't have enough content as is for a content reset, so it seems to me like more work to have to adjust existing content for any new power these levels give our characters.

 

The game is already a bit too grindy in places, and while this isn't totally uncommon for new MMOs, adding levels before the grind is addressed just adds even more grind that doesn't seem all that valuable.

 

Levels usually add new abilities, and they have hinted that would be the case, yet some ACs already have arguably too many abilities, a lot of them are very niche or can only be used in certain situations. While adding additional bars has been suggested, that isn't really a solution since at some point you need to decide how many keybinds is reasonable. I already have 36 binds, plus the 4th bar full of abilities I can just click on because I don't use them as much, but I don't have any legacy abilities out because I just don't have any place to put them.

 

I think they would be better off leaving the level cap alone, at least for another year or so, and to focus on content and maybe on trying to pair down some abilities for the ACs that already have a ton.

[SentinelDranoel]

Screw gear, I don't care about that. How the talent point system works in other MMOs at level cap increase?

 

I guess they won't simply allow us to spend some extra talent points on the current trees. A Focus Guardian with Unremitting would be the scourge of every warzone

 

THIS, is the only thing that matters. Collecting gear takes time and you always change gear. Making your character stronger with abilities is the real meat and potatoes here. If we go to 55 for example, then I want my 5 points. At the same time this could effect pvp so they would need another bracket anyway. The gap from 50 to max level would get bigger and they would need to accomodate. I love this, a game evolving.

[Sivlar]

Hopefully they won't go the WoW route and add more mindless XP grinding.

 

I remember playing DAOC for many years and several expansions. They added new/better gear and the master level garbage, but they never raised the level cap from 50. AoC and War I played for several years also and never remember them raising the cap when expansions hit.

 

There are many different ways to add more content to the game without raising the cap from what it's at now. The thought of having to grind out any more levels on any of my toons makes me cringe.