TiTaNsFaN Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 pyrotech and marauder burst is NOT THE SAME AS FRONT LOADED DAMAGE. do people not understand the value if being able to do your peak damage in the first 2-3 gcds after you open? so stupid. Occasional spurts of excellent first end burst within the first 4.5 seconds is not better than constant spurts of burst within the first 6-7.5 seconds. Healing through an operative DPS is laughably easy compared to other DPS classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motoeric Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Occasional spurts of excellent first end burst within the first 4.5 seconds is not better than constant spurts of burst within the first 6-7.5 seconds. Healing through an operative DPS is laughably easy compared to other DPS classes. Actually their damage is quite high over the course of 12 seconds. Assuming you dont clip your flachette round/acid blade DoT. And operatives arn't supposed to solo down healers. If i'm stealthed on my oper, and there is someone w/ 60% or less life, that person is usually dead. theres no argueing that fact. operatives are also insanely good at staying on a target, and assist other melee in doing the same. its like a ret pally in wow. but you probably didnt play wow andif you did you likely failed in arena. having a dispel for nameless things like sniper roots is huge. they are support burst w/ lots of control. and if i had a screenshot of my 2.1k rated 80-2 conceal op i would post it Have you heard of class role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiTaNsFaN Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) Actually their damage is quite high over the course of 12 seconds. Assuming you dont clip your flachette round/acid blade DoT. And operatives arn't supposed to solo down healers. If i'm stealthed on my oper, and there is someone w/ 60% or less life, that person is usually dead. theres no argueing that fact. operatives are also insanely good at staying on a target, and assist other melee in doing the same. its like a ret pally in wow. but you probably didnt play wow andif you did you likely failed in arena. having a dispel for nameless things like sniper roots is huge. they are support burst w/ lots of control. and if i had a screenshot of my 2.1k rated 80-2 conceal op i would post it Have you heard of class role? Ret Pally in WoW was garbage until WotlK revamp; lolret did not succeed in arenas relative to other classes so please ****. WoW was always dominated by superior fotm classes. I too benefitted from this in Wotlk hitting 2300 playing DK/Holy; this doesn't necessarily indicate skill on my part but that the game was severely unbalanced (until I quit, I don't know how it was during Cata.) This game has become JUST like that since 1.2. "Support burst with lots of control" and yet they have less viable support oppurtunities and dps oppurtunities than any other DPS class (barring mercs which are complete garbage, another failure on Bioware's part.) Just like in WoW, I'm noy saying it is IMPOSSSIBLE for a team carrying a concealment operative to succeed (esp. on the bastion lolbastion) but it is nowhere near the ideal linep. There were always comps containing a gimped class in WoW that beat the odds in arena and made it to respectable ranked levels, but this does not indicate overall class balance. P.S. You carry a good oprative healer (or two) on any respectable team to cleanse sniper roots, you don't need a squishy concealment operative. Edited July 8, 2012 by TiTaNsFaN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigDiath Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I won't go as far as to say that Ops are OP in ANY sense but man they can do some serious damage in the hands of the right person. My Shadow constantly runs into issues with Ops in WZs. I have to keep an eye out for them and remember not to turn my back on them because that's when they do the most damage. On a regular tho I'd say I'm stunned by them for a total of 2 minutes every freaking match! If they don't kill me the first time then they keep trying till they do. I swear, Sents/Maras don't give me as many problems anymore like Ops do. As far as their role in PvP they are an awesome support class. You're not gonna steamroll someone 1v1 all the time even tho I've gone against Ops who have done that to me. But it's recognizing your role on the team. Ops are great working togethern with other Ops, because of those effing stuns I hate, or working with a healer and a tank or a dps and a healer. After playing a few classes I don't think any class is Useless. My Scoundrel has become fun to play recently in PvP and he's only a level 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So... the "proof" you want is entirely subjective and anecdotal while being countered by differing subjective and anecdotal "proof"? Ok, sounds fun. *popcorn* I was thinking the same thing lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) There is a pug concealment operative on the bastion who is consistently good damage/healer murderer ...Naudi or something. I suspect most concealment operatives are having so much fun in pre 50 pvp ganking/soloing 2-3 people at a time that when they graduate to 50 pvp and never again regain that crown they can't accept it and quit/reroll/respec. With a little persistence you become very good---never great again, but decent. Now if you're arguing the class has little role ... i'm totally with you there. Edited July 9, 2012 by Blasphemerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 There is a pug concealment operative on the bastion who is consistently good damage/healer murderer ...Naudi or something. I suspect most concealment operatives are having so much fun in pre 50 pvp ganking/soloing 2-3 people at a time that when they graduate to 50 pvp and never again regain that crown they can't accept it and quit/reroll/respec. With a little persistence you become very good---never great again, but decent. Now if you're arguing the class has little role ... i'm totally with you there. Do.. Do you play the class? Saying this one person sometimes does good damage numbers is entirely irrelevant. Hell, last night I did some pugging to top off my RWZ comms for my second Field Tech Boots and I got top damage. Every Warzone. First one I was totally ignored, no deaths, significantly higher than anyone else in damage. We also lost ~60% of the games. The competition level was atrocious except for some people I recognized on Imp side who seemed to be Pugging it up too, yet I still wasn't dominating the undergeared/baddies. I had some nice consistent 4k's and could hold my own against any of them because of lack of coordination; I even solo capped mid/south in one go while the battle raged around me on Novare because people are bad. Not once did I feel powerful, not once did I get a highlight-reel high crit despite having near perfect gear versus casual baddies. Not once was I feeling like my class could do something well. My Shadow Infil feels way better and more consistent, not to mention survivable. Only thing I really miss when I play shadow is scoundrel off-heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Do.. Do you play the class? Saying this one person sometimes does good damage numbers is entirely irrelevant. Hell, last night I did some pugging to top off my RWZ comms for my second Field Tech Boots and I got top damage. Every Warzone. First one I was totally ignored, no deaths, significantly higher than anyone else in damage. We also lost ~60% of the games. The competition level was atrocious except for some people I recognized on Imp side who seemed to be Pugging it up too, yet I still wasn't dominating the undergeared/baddies. I had some nice consistent 4k's and could hold my own against any of them because of lack of coordination; I even solo capped mid/south in one go while the battle raged around me on Novare because people are bad. Not once did I feel powerful, not once did I get a highlight-reel high crit despite having near perfect gear versus casual baddies. Not once was I feeling like my class could do something well. My Shadow Infil feels way better and more consistent, not to mention survivable. Only thing I really miss when I play shadow is scoundrel off-heals. .... Did you have a point in mind? That could have been written without quoting my post as you disputed nothing and essentially echoed my perspective. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 .... Did you have a point in mind? That could have been written without quoting my post as you disputed nothing and essentially echoed my perspective. Nice job. Illustrated how I was some random guy that did great on the scoreboard and severely out geared most of the competition, yet didn't even break 5k crit or feel powerful at all, which is the issue people have. It's not fun to be a glass cannon with no power behind it despite what some random scoreboard numbers say about someone you saw in a Warzone yesterday. I'm sorry you missed the point, I'll make illustrations more concise next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The word "also" implies "as well" thus indicating another (better) pvp class can do exactly what was being suggested was an Operative strength. Solo capping a node is not possible against good teams in ranked warzones I'm sorry; if that is the only unique strength people can come up with it just reinforces my point. Operatives are garbage DPS. Also doesn't imply as well; that's what it means directly, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Illustrated how I was some random guy that did great on the scoreboard and severely out geared most of the competition, yet didn't even break 5k crit or feel powerful at all, which is the issue people have. It's not fun to be a glass cannon with no power behind it despite what some random scoreboard numbers say about someone you saw in a Warzone yesterday. I'm sorry you missed the point, I'll make illustrations more concise next time. And your problem with my post was? Maybe it's because I don't have empathy for your struggle while you're putting up competitive numbers? Sheesh, I am so sorry you don't feel adequate while putting up adequate numbers. However you want to spin it the numbers capable from operatives are competitive, and not just on under-geared pugs. Argue that your DPS has no greater function than DPS and I agree with you, but to make the emotional argument is completely silly. The operative class is never going to be the class it was, I think that's pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) And your problem with my post was? Maybe it's because I don't have empathy for your struggle while you're putting up competitive numbers? Sheesh, I am so sorry you don't feel adequate while putting up adequate numbers. However you want to spin it the numbers capable from operatives are competitive, and not just on under-geared pugs. Argue that your DPS has no greater function than DPS and I agree with you, but to make the emotional argument is completely silly. The operative class is never going to be the class it was, I think that's pretty clear. So the front-loaded burst class not hitting 5k medals on undergeared people is perfectly fine? =p Scoreboard numbers mean jack squat... The health bar of the solo defender I just surprised barely going down unless I am lucky and score a bunch of high crits and having nothing else to fall back on is the problem, doesn't matter if my DoTs padded my damage numbers or I was wailing on someone being healed for a long time at mid and thus had nice total damage. Edited July 9, 2012 by Daiyukie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiTaNsFaN Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Also doesn't imply as well; that's what it means directly, lol. This is true... but it reinforces what I said in the first place -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Sin hybrid. Next? That was called sarcasm. Get to know it and understand it. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netskink Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Covert dps ops useless? Really? I stay back, watch for someone near death and put them in the dirt. I stay back and identify the ones with low gear, mark them, announce that someone is an easy target. If I don't kill them someone else will. CC? I do it the best. They never see it coming. Stealth defense? I am the king of the shadow world. Party member low on health and no heals available? Not a problem, I can do that as well. Need a cleanse? I can do that too. Long duration high dps aoe on a node? Sure let me call in an orbital strike. Seriously, if you think its all about dps or hps, you are about two levels beneath me. My dps is low but my highest hit is one of the highest. Why is that? Because I am watching the battlefield and seeking out the weak. Think you are a pro? Get on my list and I will enjoy frustrating you to no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Here is my experiment / challenge to you forumgoers (one troll in particular who swears operative DPS is just as viable in warzones as Hybrid Sins or Maras etc.). Name me one or more roles an Operative DPS specc fills in any warzone. ONE CATCH HOWEVER. The role you name must not be filled BETTER BY or EQUAL TO that of another class. Go. Taking off node. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 yeah because operatives cant cap in cover either? newb. Not sure if trolling or serious.... Operatives don't get cover screen... they can only use natural cover... last I checked there were no objectives that had natural cover right next to it so that an Operative could cap in cover... so yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Also as far as unfront damage you can 100% counter a power tech or jugg opening damage which is impossible to counter when youre stunned and knocked down An OP is the only class I know of that I have the least amount of chance against. tankasin is the 2nd closest and hes not real close (as a sniper btw) Sure I as a sniper, have alot of tools to counter an OP but if my stun break is on cooldown, im respawning. I dont need my stunbreak to counter a mara, pt, or jugg There are some very dangerous OPs out there The only thing I can agree with is they are the weakest sustained damage class right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Not sure if trolling or serious.... Operatives don't get cover screen... they can only use natural cover... last I checked there were no objectives that had natural cover right next to it so that an Operative could cap in cover... so yeah... And you wonder why you are bad. You are not even aware of your own class mechanics. I assume your knowledge of others is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Covert dps ops useless? Really? I stay back, watch for someone near death and put them in the dirt. I stay back and identify the ones with low gear, mark them, announce that someone is an easy target. If I don't kill them someone else will. CC? I do it the best. They never see it coming. Stealth defense? I am the king of the shadow world. Party member low on health and no heals available? Not a problem, I can do that as well. Need a cleanse? I can do that too. Long duration high dps aoe on a node? Sure let me call in an orbital strike. Seriously, if you think its all about dps or hps, you are about two levels beneath me. My dps is low but my highest hit is one of the highest. Why is that? Because I am watching the battlefield and seeking out the weak. Think you are a pro? Get on my list and I will enjoy frustrating you to no end. 'Kay, but in a proper Ranked match there's no random undergeared weakling you can take advantage of and as soon as you pop out on your target and they eat your burst, you're done because you're behind enemy lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsalcedo Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 After nerfing in 1.3 hit-relics on power and (power) biochem adrenals, my full war hero augumented scrapper scoundrel looks like pure crap. I frozen him forever and reroll to sentinel. Lol maybe you just suck at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Lol maybe you just suck at it... Lol maybe you need a reality check... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPres Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Not sure what the OP is looking for. This thread is filled with opinion, though "proof" is in the title. My main is an op. When I go concealment I focus healers and DPS classes first to either take them out of the fight or force the respawn. I have the skill set to allow me in closer to those specc'd for stealth detection and cc or run my opener-->rotation. (Generally top 3 in objective points and DPS when I am not lazy.) Btw i can still crit heal for over 5k with a decent proc. When I go heals I can crack between 3 and 5 (6k) heals back to back with crits and instant cast 2.9k Surgical Probe heals (3x) in succession. There is no other class that can heal someone to capacity from less than 10% faster. Unless the match just ends quickly I never fall below the 250k mark in WZ (that's winning or losing). Btw I can still backstab for over 3k with a decent crit if my hand is forced That's my experience, against good and bad. If I lose it's because I didn't support my team properly by recognizing what was needed and adjusting. The operative has more utility (albeit diminished) than any other class. Edited July 21, 2012 by JayPres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Not sure what the OP is looking for. This thread is filled with opinion, though "proof" is in the title. My main is an op. When I go concealment I focus healers and DPS classes first to either take them out of the fight or force the respawn. I have the skill set to allow me in closer to those specc'd from stealth detection and cc or run my opener-->rotation. (Generally top 3 in objective points and DPS when I am not lazy.) Btw i can still crit heal for over 5k with a decent proc. When I go heals I can crack between 3 and 5 (6k) heals back to back with crits and instant cast 2.9k Surgical Probe heals (3x) in succession. There is no other class that can heal someone to capacity from less than 10% faster. Unless the match just ends quickly I never fall below the 250k mark in WZ (that's winning or losing). Btw I can still backstab for over 3k with a decent crit if my hand is forced That's my experience, against good and bad. If I lose it's because I didn't support my team properly by recognizing what was needed and adjusting. The operative has more utility (albeit diminished) than any other class. No one said the healing is bad. I like the healing; the Scrapper/Concealment tree needs an extra control or a second, weaker Vanish and it's perfectly viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPres Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 No one said the healing is bad. I like the healing; the Scrapper/Concealment tree needs an extra control or a second, weaker Vanish and it's perfectly viable. Operative DPS is designed to move a person out of position. Hidden Strike is the perfect counter for a Sniper's strike style. Get in close with and hit with a heavy opener (if entrench is not up). Sever Tendon ignores Resolve, and when spec'd is a high damage root (1k+ w/ crit). Backstab applies poison that is very powerful since 1.3 and within the first 3-4 tics has taken upwards of 2.2k dmg on it's own. Operative DPS gets attention quickly. What happens when that attention shifts to you, that is when the fun actually starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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