Our Data from Ranked WZs Shows PTs/Maras Perhaps Not So OPd

[Synxos]

Mate, you've posted the data but looks like data analysis is not your stronger skill.

 

The first three classes PT + Mara + Guns do in average a min and a max dps of 304 amd 348

The remaining 5 classes do in average a min and a max dps of 228 amd 289

 

This means that in average PT + Mara + Guns do between 21% and 33% more dmg than any other classes.

 

But this gets worst since some of the remaining classes have AoE as their main PvP spec means that single target dmg of PT + Mara + Guns is way way way higher then 33%.

 

Thanks for your effort in trying to convince the community that your FTW class is not OP.

 

Now that you have the entire raw data, run some statistic analysis (use excel its easy) and tell us in a normal distribution what is the probability with 95% confidence a PT or a Marauder will do more than 500 dps and compare to other classes.

This^

In a balanced game, the difference between the top dps and bottom dps should be 5%. In this game the difference between top dps and bottom dps is 50%!!!

The difference between PT and sorc is 13%...

again, in a balanced game, the difference between top and bottom dps is 5%. bottom dps is supposed to have more utility than top dps to make up for the gap.

However, in this game.....

 

The difference between top dps and bottom dps is 50%!

[AlyxDinas]

Like I said, on Ebon Hawk the Sentinel isn't the highest played class, nor is the Vanguard.....

 

I assume we're still referring to your 10:49 /who data?

[BurnsTwoThree]

I assume we're still referring to your 10:49 /who data?

 

Also on an RP-PvE server where playing pretend is more important than PvPing.

[AlyxDinas]

Don't you see! Some people play Commando DPS for raids and Hard Modes! Therefore, it's not underplayed at all! I know you guys are exclusively talking about warzones only but I'm going to take a sample consisting of every type of player on my RPvE server to disprove your point about PvP on a PvP forum.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Don't you see! Some people play Commando DPS for raids and Hard Modes! Therefore, it's not underplayed at all! I know you guys are exclusively talking about warzones only but I'm going to take a sample consisting of every type of player on my RPvE server to disprove your point about PvP on a PvP forum.

But... but...

 

 

 

"Bioware said so" ™

[LordExozone]

What he really needed to include was a range...

It really doesn't matter tho. His title is wrong. The data, as is, shows that PTs/maras are OP.

PTs do 6% more damage than maras, and maras do 6% more damage than the next highest dps.

.

 

6% more damage on Pyrotech Powertechs doesn't make them OP. I'll gladly suffer a 6% overall damage reduction if I get defensive abilities on par with those of a Marauder in exchange.

[HurricaneXXIV]

I have a PT and Sent among other classes. The Mara can't even touch the PT's burst or damage output in a rated. The reason being in group pvp focus damage is king, Mara's have more back end damage. Snipers, PTs and Sweep spec Jugs are king.

 

I'd expect Shadows to have lower damage output. The main way a shadow is used in rated is guarding the offnodes and play more of a delay or ball carrying role.

[BurnsTwoThree]

6% more damage on Pyrotech Powertechs doesn't make them OP. I'll gladly suffer a 6% overall damage reduction if I get defensive abilities on par with those of a Marauder in exchange.

 

Actually Marauders and Pyros are doing 33% higher DPS (note DPS not damage) Their TTK is very very low on pretty much anything.

 

Overall damage is a complete different thing especially seeing as how other classes have to sit on players for awhile to achieve the same results.

[matslarson]

What about all the other factors can we assume all the other classes involved in the matches have their gear and stats optimised to the best it can be in regard to everyone involved? are these so called OP classes breaking the damage board with sub par gear stats , Are healers being marked and focus dropped making them appear to be more squishy than they are?

There's no reason to assume, as a population, sent/mara or PT/vanguard players are more/less geared or more/less adept at min/maxing their gear than any other AC. If anything, the sheer size of the sent/mara and PT/vanguard samples means it's more likely to be clouded by undergeared players. This is a sample of RWZ, so we can safely assume that all players involved are relatively well geared. It includes well over 100 matches, so a single undergeared team isn't going to skew the results very much, and an undergeared team probably wouldn't have a high enough ranking to come up against the OP to begin with unless no one else was queuing. The sample only includes DPS characters, so how quickly healers die while focused wasn't reported, nor is it relevant to the discussion about DPS.

I don't personally feel my sole contribution is capable of turning the tide of a battle against competent player/s that know what their doing and have good teamwork and i surely don't have an easy time attempting to either.

Good. If a single character was capable of overpowering an entire team, we wouldn't even need to have the conversation about them being OP, since it would be even more blatantly obvious than it already is.

I can struggle to take down a Commando Healer by locking him out of his heal rotation it becomes impossible if he is being supported, un-supported myself i go down pretty quickly the minute the flame icon above my head is spotted im focused down and dead within 3-4 sec.

Again, good. I'm not really sorry that you can't solo a supported healer (read: win a 1v2+ fight) and I'm also not sorry you die when unsupported and being focused (read: win a 1v2+ fight.)

 

EDIT:

 

i.e being ignored on the battlefield as you where all focusing on healers etc.

Healers have always and will always be the primary targets in any type of PvP combat that includes healers, so if you think your opponents should forgo targeting healers in favor of focusing down a DPS char, you're delusional, and you inherently recognize that PTs are OP even if you're unwilling to acknowledge it. It's also impossible to focus down the PT in a reasonable amount of time when the team includes 2-4 of them as well as 2 healers. When, by your own admission, 6 out of 8 players on the enemy team warrant being focused, it's impossible to focus them, since you can't "focus" 75% of the team.

Maybe his survivability was exceptional along with his dps due to him being supported with heals,shielded etc.

The size of the sample and consistency with which PTs outdamage other ACs makes it clear that this is not a case of "exceptional" damage due to excellent heals and/or being shielded. It's the norm.

Edited July 9, 2012 by matslarson

[Synxos]

6% more damage on Pyrotech Powertechs doesn't make them OP. I'll gladly suffer a 6% overall damage reduction if I get defensive abilities on par with those of a Marauder in exchange.

 

There should be a 6% difference between top dps and BOTTOM dps.

There's a 6% difference between pt and another OP class....

 

There's a freakin 50% difference between top and bottom dps in this game.

That's fubar balance.

[Valsdad]

 

Class # Median DMG Average DMG

PowerTech/Vanguard 372 322k 364k

Marauders/Sentinels 402 295k 339k

Snipers/Gunslingers 21 295k 341k

Sorc/Sage 50 288k 322k

Jugg/Guardian 42 286k 323k

Assassin/Shadow 83 277k 297k

Operative/Scoundrel 22 254k 265k

Merc/Commando 20 238k 242k

 

 

This is absolutely laughable.

 

How does a company that calls themselves professionals allow this type of imbalance to happen? What are their "Metrics" telling them now? If this pattern holds for more than a patch, I'm just going to peace out and wish Bioware a nice life.

[DarthOvertone]

This is some interesting information. Thanks to the OP.

 

I noticed that the OP left out that key stunlocked until dead stat. I think, more than any other time, the case can now be made to further nerf Operatives/Scoundrels. They are obviously flying under the radar and making peeps unsub.

[Darth_Philar]

147 matches is a tiny sample size, and the samples for most of the individual ACs are incredibly small as well. Plus there is no way to create a distinction between specs making this data fairly useless for any kind of actual study.

[warultima]

147 matches is a tiny sample size, and the samples for most of the individual ACs are incredibly small as well. Plus there is no way to create a distinction between specs making this data fairly useless for any kind of actual study.

 

The sample size might be small, but the results are showing some classes are whooping 10- 20 times (1000% to 2000%) more popular than the rest 6 ACs in rWZ.

 

One has to be blind, in denial, delusional, mentally ill, stupid or all of the above to not see that the results are showing a trend here. The more, the detailed stats the OP provide will show/prove how Mara/PT are simply better than the others at least dps wise.

 

The OP is trying to convince the community that PT Mara isnt THAT MUCH more powerful (even his own data showed them being the best btw), however, ironically both of the data showed other wise.

 

The raw data on AC count simply showed the insane amount of them and have 1000%-2000% more rWZ slots than ALL other ACs.

 

The Dps vs Death count further proven how certain classes are severely disadvantaged in rWZ. And the term "Sorc", "Survive", "Burst", does not go together even tho there are still plenty of players that still think sorcs are "super OP 1500 dps burst while kiting you to death bubble never die god mode"

Edited July 9, 2012 by warultima

[MobiusZero]

As so many have been saying, the massive imbalance of the amounts of certain classes, is the most telling thing of all.

 

If I was playing "Who Wants To Be a Millionaire" and asked the audience for the answer, and 95% of them gave the same answer, I'd be willing to bet that it would be the correct one!!

[Sookster]

Did a handful of warzones tonight, both regular and ranked, and a majority of them were of 5-6 guardian/sentinals and the rest were scoundrel healers with the occasional sage or slinger. The imp side doesn't seem to be following the trend, and might be the reason why we lose more than win.

 

Devs really really really need to address this type of thing, same thing happened in WoW when arena and rated BG's came out and Blizzard promptly addressed it.

[HaLeX]

It has been brought to my attention that a team of 8 PT''s has formed a team and they are undefeated. This has happened on correlian run, if there are any others I would like to hear about it. I was wondering when we would start seeing all mara or all pt teams with 1 or 2 healers.

[Applicator]

This is a pretty bad analysis. The weighting of the players and dmg could be due to the fact that his team is always counted in the stats. It could be that his team has 2PTs and 2Maras....leading to "omg every game has heaps of PTs and Maras!"

 

You can't even tell what spec some classes are, quite a few play as hybrids (eg Jugg immortal/veng, or sorcs) and others like operatives/assassins sit in stealth a lot of the time and others may or may not be defending. Having a PT defend is pretty bad as they are so squishy they will die well before help arrives. So you stick your PT on offense and he racks up big dmg numbers.

 

Also just because a class is popular doesn't mean it's OP, it just means it's popular and likely perceived OP. PTs are squishy as hell, but heaps of people on these forums think they have awesome defense....25% shield and a 15% HOT self heal on a decent long CD is not a good defense.

 

People whinging about classes being OP are typically bad players that don't know how to adapt. It's almost as bad as people crying that they get rolled because they are in recruit gear, not that they have no idea what they are doing.

[Sookster]

This is a pretty bad analysis. The weighting of the players and dmg could be due to the fact that his team is always counted in the stats. It could be that his team has 2PTs and 2Maras....leading to "omg every game has heaps of PTs and Maras!"

 

You can't even tell what spec some classes are, quite a few play as hybrids (eg Jugg immortal/veng, or sorcs) and others like operatives/assassins sit in stealth a lot of the time and others may or may not be defending. Having a PT defend is pretty bad as they are so squishy they will die well before help arrives. So you stick your PT on offense and he racks up big dmg numbers.

 

Also just because a class is popular doesn't mean it's OP, it just means it's popular and likely perceived OP. PTs are squishy as hell, but heaps of people on these forums think they have awesome defense....25% shield and a 15% HOT self heal on a decent long CD is not a good defense.

 

People whinging about classes being OP are typically bad players that don't know how to adapt. It's almost as bad as people crying that they get rolled because they are in recruit gear, not that they have no idea what they are doing.

 

Are you even focusing on the topic of this thread at all? The subject is that majority of warzones has multiple players playing the same class, it has nothing to do with what spec they are, nothing to do with having to learning and adapting, what is there to adapt when you're facing 5 sentinals or marauders that all jump and ravage you and you being dead in seconds because of it, or 3 powertechs that will grapple you away from your teammates/healer and shank you down.

 

The most common republic premade I face on Pot5 is: 3 scoundrel (healers) and a mix of 5 sentinal/guardian or half and half of knights and vanguards, it got so old quickly it isn't even funny. The class variety is basically gone.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Sookster

[dalin]

Are you even focusing on the topic of this thread at all? The subject is that majority of warzones has multiple players playing the same class, it has nothing to do with what spec they are, nothing to do with having to learning and adapting, what is there to adapt when you're facing 5 sentinals or marauders that all jump and ravage you and you being dead in seconds because of it, or 3 powertechs that will grapple you away from your teammates/healer and shank you down.

 

He's just doing what Sorc's and Merc's did pre nerf. Say it's a L2P issue. This is the denial stage. He'll move to the anger stage once the nerfs hit.

[Roiz]

This is a pretty bad analysis. The weighting of the players and dmg could be due to the fact that his team is always counted in the stats. It could be that his team has 2PTs and 2Maras....leading to "omg every game has heaps of PTs and Maras!"

 

You can't even tell what spec some classes are, quite a few play as hybrids (eg Jugg immortal/veng, or sorcs) and others like operatives/assassins sit in stealth a lot of the time and others may or may not be defending. Having a PT defend is pretty bad as they are so squishy they will die well before help arrives. So you stick your PT on offense and he racks up big dmg numbers.

 

Also just because a class is popular doesn't mean it's OP, it just means it's popular and likely perceived OP. PTs are squishy as hell, but heaps of people on these forums think they have awesome defense....25% shield and a 15% HOT self heal on a decent long CD is not a good defense.

 

People whinging about classes being OP are typically bad players that don't know how to adapt. It's almost as bad as people crying that they get rolled because they are in recruit gear, not that they have no idea what they are doing.

 

people are actually smart, and know what to do. As stats show the majority rerolled to PT and maras. Other who play ranked will reroll two if BW won't fix PT.

[Ntranced]

people are actually smart, and know what to do. As stats show the majority rerolled to PT and maras. Other who play ranked will reroll two if BW won't fix PT.

 

Aint that the truth. I recently went back to a lot of starting planets to get missed datacrons, they are full to bursting with PT and Mara all through the levels. I saw handfuls of sorcs, a few tankassins, some agents and a truck load of Mara and Powertech.

[shegoy]

Offence forms allot of a PT pyro's defence Nerf our Dps if you please but give us defensive abilities in return PT Pyro is pure Offensive spec and the trade off was no real defensive capability even other DPS like maras and snipers have a few at their disposal especially more so the snipers.

[BubbleDncr]

Class # Median DMG Average DMG

PowerTech/Vanguard 372 322k 364k

Marauders/Sentinels 402 295k 339k

Snipers/Gunslingers 21 295k 341k

Sorc/Sage 50 288k 322k

Jugg/Guardian 42 286k 323k

Assassin/Shadow 83 277k 297k

Operative/Scoundrel 22 254k 265k

Merc/Commando 20 238k 242k

 

Like others, I do find it sad that there are so many more marauders/PT's than every other class.

 

The only thing I would take from this is that it does seem like Powertechs/Vanguards should be looked at. Because in theory, since Marauders and Snipers are the pure DPS classes, they should be doing the most damage - which seems to be accurate other than the PT's. So at the very least, PT's shouldn't be doing more damage than Marauders/Snipers, but they should be doing slightly less, since they can also taunt and get medals/help their team that way.