Mirdthestrill Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Finally got to 50 and put on my spiffy new recurit armor. I figure, I can at least hold my own right? NOPE!! Seems like everybody on the other team has at least 18k HP, that was like the lowest I saw in about 15-20 warzones I ran. In some cases, it was just 3 or 4 GCD's and my poor little guardian was taking a trip to the spawn point. Whats worse, some of them simply ignored me, laughing at my small and puny lightsaber I don't want any battlemaster nerfs or anything, can I just have a hug plx? /hug I feel your pain. It gets better, don't worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustie Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I can see the BM item, but how do you get the WH item? That takes rated comms, right? And wouldn't I have to turn in my BM item to get the WH item regardless? If you pvp alot while leveling then you should be valor lvl 40 at chr lvl 40.. so you can start trading in for ranked coms at lvl 40. by 50 you should be maxed in both.. 3.5k ranked 2k wz with that you can either buy a couple small WH pieces or just your WH main-hand. i suggest the main-hand, especially if you are mara/sent or merc/gunslinger. this is because you buy the BM main-hand and rip the mods out before trading in for WH version. then plop those mods into an orange off-hand. now you have WH main-hand, BM off-hand, and the rest recruit gear at fresh 50. by doing this it gives you a decent start. As far as the in recruit gear, don't worry it doesn't last long.. My op healer was in recruit gear for all of 3 days. by the 4th he was full BM. he just hit 50 a week ago.. and now i've gotten 2 more WH pieces since..lol Edited June 30, 2012 by crustie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaipyr Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 this is because you buy the BM main-hand and rip the mods out before trading in for WH version. then plop those mods into an orange off-hand. now you have WH main-hand, BM off-hand, and the rest recruit gear at fresh 50. by doing this it gives you a decent start. There's orange generators (shield or dps)?! Since when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustie Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) There's orange generators (shield or dps)?! Since when? re-read the last part of the sentence before the one you quoted... i list the specific classes that benefit from it... lol Edited June 30, 2012 by crustie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnanika Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I have to roll my eyes that there are some people treating this essentially lighthearted thread as some sort of serious criticism on pvp, and leaping in with the snobby, elitist defenses. /hug to the OP and anyone else going through the recruit grinder right now. I'm doing it too on one of my toons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InariOkami Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 If you think recruit gear is bad, try pre 1.2 with fresh 50 green questing gear and 2 pieces of hard grinded centurion. Recruit gear performs fine, I wish people would stop screaming for Bioware to hand them fully augmented WH at level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egalatae Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I understand that. But PvP shouldn't be about gear, period. Then what do you work towards, if not gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaipyr Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Then what do you work towards, if not gear? Fun. Epeen. Vanity items. Mounts. Notoriety. Getting better, skill-wise. Etc. Works just fine for real skill focused pvp based team games (FPS's) Edited July 1, 2012 by Vaipyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migrayn Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 This. As Bugs Bunny used to say, "Would you like one lump or two?" Take your lumps. Put on your big boy pants and push through the beatings, because we all did it and we all survived. Many of us before 1.1.5 when the RNG crap on gear still existed and it was an even more frustrating experience. Hell, Recruit gear is now given to you for free, I don't know what more you people could possibly want. What you forget is that when you were earning your champ and BM gear everyone else was also. You did not have full teams of best In slot modded augmented gear to fight. Recruit gear is given out now since their is such a huge jump in expertise with the new gear. So many people have full set of gear that is already fully augmented. On top of that they have already changed mods to make the sets even better. New 50s are facing a much steeper gear differance. Even BM gear has crappy stats other then endurance. When I put my new BM gear on I lost endurance over my old champ gear. Recruit is even worse then this. Saying new 50s get recruit for free and so have it easier is rediculous. I'd rather be in blues facing champ then I. Recruit facing full WH modded augmented gear. It is a much larger gap now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustie Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Fun. Epeen. Vanity items. Mounts. Notoriety. Getting better, skill-wise. Etc. Works just fine for real skill focused pvp based team games (FPS's) but has yet to work well in an mmo. the mmo crowd is a little different then the fps crowd. the mmo crowd generally wants that uber gear to show they are good and put their time into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platinumruggo Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I never knew any of this when I tried PVP'ing with my JK who was a fresh 50. I got scraped up real bad, then again I was fairly new to PVP as I had only pvp'd once with my level 38 (now lvl 40) sw. Honestly, I don't even want to pvp with my JK, mainly because I got kind of bored with the class. Loving my shadow though, will probably main him until I can get lvl 50 and then play with the "big boys" as you guys call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 but has yet to work well in an mmo. the mmo crowd is a little different then the fps crowd. the mmo crowd generally wants that uber gear to show they are good and put their time into it. Then we might as well just stop calling it PvP right now, and call it GvG for MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Finally got to 50 and put on my spiffy new recurit armor. I figure, I can at least hold my own right? NOPE!! Seems like everybody on the other team has at least 18k HP, that was like the lowest I saw in about 15-20 warzones I ran. In some cases, it was just 3 or 4 GCD's and my poor little guardian was taking a trip to the spawn point. Whats worse, some of them simply ignored me, laughing at my small and puny lightsaber I don't want any battlemaster nerfs or anything, can I just have a hug plx? Yeah it's a joke. I enter the warzone, one guy is like "dude, 12k HP ? really ?" Then he goes: "hmmm... did they nerf recruit gear or what ?" Roll a Gunslinger -> get recruit gear -> get steamrolled by a 22k HP marauder -> re-roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaace Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I'd rather see a 12k hp in recruit gear then a 10k hp in lvl 40 greens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) I don't think that's a fair analysis. u probably play on a low population server anyway even the differen between a lvl47 in half purple half blue vs a lvl 15 half green half blue with 6 piece missing (earing/relics/implant/head) is huge in any warzone in which i see more then 2 under lvl 20 i know we will lose vs any team that is 30+ no matter the skill the quantity of CC that lvl 30+ can use is double i bet everybody that does 1-49 count the under 20 at start to see in he has chanse to win or not lets face the true some healer lvl 19 is decent ONLY if the other team is stupid enough to dont focus healer that i have to admit it happens but a dps under 20 just don't have it to make difference specially the one that work in close range they will get too much aoe damage with too little defensive things that's why if u read around they say marauder start weak and get OP later on because DPS is heavily gear dependent anyway keep beliving that ur premade of 40-49 win because they are skilled then get at 50 and cry that is all gear when (most probably) u never learned to play because u had it easy all the way and could solo 3 low lvl with ur lvl47 well geared at lvl 50 there is no class (in a fight between people dressed BM & WH) that can handle alone 3 person and win all 3 i did it many times at lvl 1-49 Edited July 1, 2012 by Pekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to give me a reasonable explanation as to why there needs to be a special PvP stat at all. It's to make PvP the best progression route to get PvP gear, and PvE the best route to get PvE gear. PvP has lower stats + expertise to make it good for PvP. PvE has higher stats but no expertise, making it weak for PvP. The point is to reward people for doing the content they enjoy and not make them feel like they need to go do Nighmare Karagga's to compete in PvP, or to have a top ranked PvP team to clear a new operation. It's actually a decent system, contrary to what most people say. Expertise isn't the issue, per se. The issue is that someone in augmented WH gear will absolutely wreck someone in recruit gear--and that has as much to do with the other stats on it as the expertise, seeing as you gain like 30% more health going from recruit to WH. The argument you should be making is "why is there such a huge gap between starting players and geared players?" Expertise is just a mechanic to allow people to focus on one aspect of the game to gear up. I remember raiding in WoW during BC, and at one point the arena weapons were significantly better and easier to get than raid gear. Let me tell you, it was annoying having to grind arena points to help my raid progress. Conversely, when the legendary swords came out in BT, a rogue with that gear could dominate in the arena. From those experiences, I appreciate the expertise stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 It's to make PvP the best progression route to get PvP gear, and PvE the best route to get PvE gear. PvP has lower stats + expertise to make it good for PvP. PvE has higher stats but no expertise, making it weak for PvP. The point is to reward people for doing the content they enjoy and not make them feel like they need to go do Nighmare Karagga's to compete in PvP, or to have a top ranked PvP team to clear a new operation. It's actually a decent system, contrary to what most people say. Expertise isn't the issue, per se. The issue is that someone in augmented WH gear will absolutely wreck someone in recruit gear--and that has as much to do with the other stats on it as the expertise, seeing as you gain like 30% more health going from recruit to WH. The argument you should be making is "why is there such a huge gap between starting players and geared players?" Expertise is just a mechanic to allow people to focus on one aspect of the game to gear up. I remember raiding in WoW during BC, and at one point the arena weapons were significantly better and easier to get than raid gear. Let me tell you, it was annoying having to grind arena points to help my raid progress. Conversely, when the legendary swords came out in BT, a rogue with that gear could dominate in the arena. From those experiences, I appreciate the expertise stat. Yes, that is the reason. However, just because something has a reason doesn't mean it's excused. There are a plethora of other ways to provide PvP progression other than gear, and doesn't boost your abilities or cause you to be inferior for any other reason than skill. PvP has always been about a matching of skills. Enter any kind of gear into that equation and you diminish that formula of skill-matching. It becomes GvG, not PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 They really just need to give a bigger budget for Endurance on recruit gear. Full recruit should be getting up to 15k health, not 12k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes, that is the reason. However, just because something has a reason doesn't mean it's excused. There are a plethora of other ways to provide PvP progression other than gear, and doesn't boost your abilities or cause you to be inferior for any other reason than skill. PvP has always been about a matching of skills. Enter any kind of gear into that equation and you diminish that formula of skill-matching. It becomes GvG, not PvP. You're making a different argument, though. I'm saying that assuming you have gear progression in PvP then a stat like expertise is a nice way to handle it. Whether or not PvP should actually have gear progression is a different issue. I'd prefer to see a system somewhat like modern shooters, where gaining levels gives you perks and variety in gear choices, but not vastly better gear. You don't start out in MW2 with the best weapon in the game, but it's a competitive weapon and you have competitive perks. Yet, they managed to make it so progressing through the ranks is still rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggster Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm not level 50 yet, but is the recruit gear the equivalent to say.. Savage Saronite gear from WoW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNairb Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I don't know about you, but I started PvP at 10 on my Vanguard and Gunslinger and both were top damage, objectives, and medals frequently. When i play my lvl 12 sniper i can do the same, and i just hit random buttons, under lvl 50 pvp what you can do scoreboard wise means nothing, its under lvl 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elboc Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think this will improve when rated single queue is put in the game. Then the full war hero people will either be doing solo ranked or team ranked but likely no regular leaving that for the lower geared players making it for fun. Hopefully it makes 1.4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanor Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 When i play my lvl 12 sniper i can do the same, and i just hit random buttons, under lvl 50 pvp what you can do scoreboard wise means nothing, its under lvl 50 Yes, and the guy I was talking to was talking about UNDER 50, therefore it is relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think this will improve when rated single queue is put in the game. Then the full war hero people will either be doing solo ranked or team ranked but likely no regular leaving that for the lower geared players making it for fun. Hopefully it makes 1.4. I'm not that optimistic about that. PvPers do tend to stay with the path of least resistance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veniras Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 hen the full war hero people will either be doing solo ranked or team ranked but likely no regular leaving that for the lower geared players making it for fun.. I don't wanna sound mean, but that is not going to happen. If premade groups get the opportunity to roll pugs, some will take that opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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