Sorc/Sage heals need to be returned to pre 1.2, other heals need buffs

[Orcron]

Do you really think it is any different for anyone else?.

this sentence is all that is needed to be said. Everyone gets the raw end of the dmg a healer will receive at one point or another. A healer gets it more because well you keep people alive.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Orcron

[Benets]

I am loving ranked warzone, now everybody will see the fails of the system when people combine stuff to anulate others. Now perhaps bioware finaly notice that the resolve system is crap. Get slowed all the time and rooted and do not have diminish returns, man this is crap.

 

A lot of wrong things, Bioware did same thing blizzard did, give others abilities aviable for those who can afford, like "everyman for himself" on wow that is a racial, that should be unique from humans, but everybody can get buying a trinket. Now is more or less the same, people who have millions of cred can get a sprint, as sage have, if spent everything, cooldonw is 1 minute, 30 seconds more than a sage but still, if you as sage, i dont know how, manage to scape a melee, he can use it to chase you and kill you. And he dont need another one, till your sprint is up again, he already kill you twice if you could respawn at same place. It should have the ability to sell for gold like force leap too. Or the grap, from other classes.

 

And yes they need to give sage more defense, some way. Sage have the worst survivability in the game. The worst i've ever seen in any mmo. As a lot of chars have roots and slow, it dont realy matter much slow sombody, cos you're slowered too. That amount of slows and roots should go away, they should stop mimic wow, wow is past, wow is garbage, wow is unbalanced as hell.

 

And some weird dumb things that do not have explanation:

Taken from patch: guardian/juggernaut 'The amount absorbed by Blade Barrier now scales properly based on character stats.'

smuggler gunslinger 'the damage absorbed by Defense Screen now scales properly based on character stats.'

 

The shields scales with stats, why force shield do not scale with stat? Some may say 'cos the other shields is from tanks' so if the force shield counts for heal, heal should scale from stats too. So this ability get worst each new equipment set. Cos in early 50, it absorbs 1500 damage, but people do 3k. Then it absorb the same amount 1500 but people do 4.5k. Now with WH people is doing 5 k to 6k in a single blow, but the shield still absorbs 1.5k. Seems kinda ridiculous it. If shield increase by willpower at least sages would have a little more defense, cos it's defense is near zero. If a melee is on you, apply the shield you only spent force and a globalcooldown. And the melee take more than it spenting the same globalcooldown.

[Helig]

The problem is that this was only a problem when DPS were on the receiving end. Yes, Healers should die to DPS, our job, our entire existence, is really hinged on killing Healers. It was, unfortunately, Healers who screamed at us and told us that you should be better than we are and worth a lot more effort. Now that has come back to haunt you.

 

Grab a Tank, let them guard you, and you will be fine.

 

No, you aren't "supposed to kill healers" by default.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Helig

[ProfessorWalsh]

No, you aren't "supposed to kill healers" by default.

 

Yes we are.

 

Tanks protect people.

Healers reduce the damage someone has taken.

DPS kill people.

 

The idea that DPS classes are supposed to deal damage and kill nobody without 2 or more DPS working in tandem is ludicrous.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Yes we are.

Healers reduce the damage someone has taken.

 

No, defensive CDs reduce the amount of damage that someone is taking. Healers restore health and try to keep them as high on health as possible.

 

Sorry, as I said before you're mistaken as to what a healer actually is. I am also sorry that you're a casual player that struggled to kill healers previously. But just because you being a casual player could not compete when they took competence to solo before, doesn't mean they should stay in their current state.

Edited June 28, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[IsletsReborn]

Yes we are.

 

Tanks protect people.

Healers reduce the damage someone has taken.

DPS kill people.

 

The idea that DPS classes are supposed to deal damage and kill nobody without 2 or more DPS working in tandem is ludicrous.

 

this is one of the least intelligent posts ive seen on this topic. Healers reduce damage? Im not sure you have even played the game, im assuming you must mean bubble? Also we didnt say that dps should only beable to kill 2v1 regardless of opposition like you stated. Healer vs one dps should last a long time. Healers should be able to survive aganist one enemy or our class is useless

[Helig]

Yes we are.

 

Tanks protect people.

Healers reduce the damage someone has taken.

DPS kill people.

 

The idea that DPS classes are supposed to deal damage and kill nobody without 2 or more DPS working in tandem is ludicrous.

 

It's no longer the Tank>DPS>Healer>Tank RPS dynamics in modern MMOs. It's much more complex.

 

And healers *negate* damage, not "reduce" it. If a healer was a squishy walking medpack who can only soften the impact, they'd be useless. I'd run with 2 DPS instead of healer+DPS any day.

 

Look at it from the other angle. A damage-dealer, a tank and a healer - each occupies one raid slot. What would counter the Damage-dealer if he was hard counter to the healer? The tank? Nope. Even weapon damage-heavy specs eat tank-geared tank specs (and Guarded damage can be, at the very least, Shielded, but it appears that it's also dodgeable, according to Gabe's blog entry, so DPS-geared tanks take a lot of Guard damage). Tank plus healer? Of course. But then you'd logically need two characters to counter this tandem.

 

While I do agree that PvP healing in PvE-heavy games can be tough to balance, there is a lot of logic to balancing it around DPS and healer mutually countering eachother, effectively blocking eachother's contribution.

[brianmack]

The root of the problem is when back in pre 1.2 all of the terrible dps people that couldn't down a sage or sorc got on the forums and complained about how op they were, when they really werent. The problem was that the swtor population was filled with terrible button smashers that couldnt hang with a talented healer. I would get solo killed by skilled dps all the time and hear the bads complain about how op I was and I would tell them their rotation was way off. Unfortunately, BW listened to the idiots that can't play and knee-jerked to an action that gimped the cloth healer so they are an easy kill. Now all the lame dps people are getting on these boards and stating that it's all fine because they can now kill one without any study or skill. Anyone who truly understands the complexity of a skill based pvp match knows that healers of these classes are well below where they should be. The difference is that most of us have rerolled and given up on them in pvp, or tried to adapt. It's laughable that EVERY person that is responding that these classes are fine follows up with "you just need to bring a tank, or another healer". Does any other class have to have a babysitter? Nope, but to be successful sorcs and sages do.

 

The people defending the state of sorc/sage are probably terrible dps that remember the days when they couldnt handle one and fear that they would have to do so again. Pre 1.2 was the best pvp this game ever had and it filtered out the losers better than today. If youre having to use an adrenal or stun to take out a sorc/sage you are in the terrible class and probably should reply in this forum that everything is ok with sages/sorc because you could not go back to life pre 1.2 and be remotely acceptable to a group. The voice of the bad dpsers are louder than that of the whats left of the cloth healers (without a tank or guardian babysitter). What we know about BW is that they react so fast and the voice of idiots rings loudest ... we need more server, fail.... sorcs are op, fail.... maras are too weak, fail.

 

So let me hear one veteran post in here that they couldn't kill a sorc one-on-one and share their pre 1.2 rotation, cuz I know what worked, and you were doing it wrong. But, instead of getting better, you cried to mommy and she made easier for you. Now you don't even have to think you can just hammer the keys for 4 seconds and grin.

[ProfessorWalsh]

this is one of the least intelligent posts ive seen on this topic. Healers reduce damage? Im not sure you have even played the game, im assuming you must mean bubble? Also we didnt say that dps should only beable to kill 2v1 regardless of opposition like you stated. Healer vs one dps should last a long time. Healers should be able to survive aganist one enemy or our class is useless

 

Healers reduce the damage someone has already taken, yes. That is what healers do. Healers are not supposed to be able to protect themselves from DPS. That is the job of the Tank.

 

This game is basically DPS vs Healer.

 

DPS kill Healers.

Tanks protect Healers from DPS.

Healers keep DPS and Tanks alive.

[Raansu]

I am loving ranked warzone, now everybody will see the fails of the system when people combine stuff to anulate others. Now perhaps bioware finaly notice that the resolve system is crap. Get slowed all the time and rooted and do not have diminish returns, man this is crap.

 

Resolve works fine. L2P

 

Yes we are.

 

Tanks protect people.

Healers reduce the damage someone has taken.

DPS kill people.

 

The idea that DPS classes are supposed to deal damage and kill nobody without 2 or more DPS working in tandem is ludicrous.

 

Team based pvp is team based. Granted I can still kill healers solo, but hey, I'm awesome like that.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Raansu

[Helig]

Healers reduce the damage someone has already taken, yes. That is what healers do. Healers are not supposed to be able to protect themselves from DPS. That is the job of the Tank.

 

This game is basically DPS vs Healer.

 

DPS kill Healers.

Tanks protect Healers from DPS.

Healers keep DPS and Tanks alive.

Looks like you need to design your very own MMO with this sort of "flat" rock beats scissors" balancing.

 

Thankfully, ToR is more based on personal ability, instead of "Rock beats scissors" dynamic, at least on a personal level. Yes, there are imbalances and obvious counterspecs (namely, Watchman\Annihilation vs healing specs), but no real guarantee for substandard DPS to beat good healers (average ones fall like everyone else, it's the geared and knowledgeable people that can survive a couple of mediocre damage-dealers without being Guarded - but even then they either have to disengage, or run out of resource eventually).

Edited June 28, 2012 by Helig

[Gibbzter]

Healers reduce the damage someone has already taken, yes. That is what healers do. Healers are not supposed to be able to protect themselves from DPS. That is the job of the Tank.

 

This game is basically DPS vs Healer.

 

DPS kill Healers.

Tanks protect Healers from DPS.

Healers keep DPS and Tanks alive.

 

I can not fathom how unskilled of a DPS you must be to still have problems with healers, especially as a sent. So basically you are saying sorcs should be totally helpless without a tank. What other class relies on another class just to survive? It sure as hell isn't sents.

 

You have been QQ'ing in multiple threads for months about how you can't kill healers, its getting old and no one here likes you, so why do you still post?

 

@OP I agree 100% bro. Sorcs/sages are in a terrible state right now and hopefully BW will fix it before more healers/players leave the game

Edited June 28, 2012 by Gibbzter

[Raansu]

I can not fathom how unskilled of a DPS you must be to still have problems with healers, especially as a sent. So basically you are saying sorcs should be totally helpless without a tank. What other class relies on another class just to survive? It sure as hell isn't sents.

 

You have been QQ'ing in multiple threads for months about how you can't kill healers, its getting old and no one here likes you, so why do you still post?

 

@OP I agree 100% bro. Sorcs/sages are in a terrible state right now and hopefully BW will fix it before more healers/players leave the game

 

I'm a sent and I <3 my healer. I don't leave home without them =)

Edited June 28, 2012 by Raansu

[Darth_Philar]

Yes we are.

 

Tanks protect people.

Healers reduce the damage someone has taken.

DPS kill people.

 

The idea that DPS classes are supposed to deal damage and kill nobody without 2 or more DPS working in tandem is ludicrous.

 

It should ALWAYS take 2 DPS to kill a healer. Your job as a DPS on a healer is NOT to kill him, but to shut him down. You do DPS, he does HPS which (if balanced) will completely negate your DPS leaving both of you back at square one at any given point in time.

 

Example:

DPS - HPS = 0 (stalemate)

DPS + DPS - HPS = DPS win

Edited June 28, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[Kuvox]

The root of the problem is when back in pre 1.2 all of the terrible dps people that couldn't down a sage or sorc got on the forums and complained about how op they were, when they really werent.

 

This. I remember posting on the forums this exact same thing right before the healing nerf. Skilled players could always take me and other healers down.

 

Also, last night in rated we went up against five OK to not-so-good teams and two really good teams. Not surprisingly, I was able to heal for an average of 552k in the five easy victories and only 317k in the two tough victories (and I was top Sorc/Sage heals in all matches). Good teams simply do not let a Sorc/Sage do much healing. Our Sentinels shut down the server's best Sorc healer over and over in one of the tough matches (this guy has posted over 1 million in heals 3 times).

 

Simply put, if your Sorc/Sage is posting awesome healing numbers in rated you haven't gone up against good competition because they don't let much healing happen.

[Zohkar]

Well 3rd day since 1.3 and I have given up playing my inquisitor class anymore. If I am getting destroyed by a single dps trying to just keep myself healed and I am in full battlemasters then something is wrong. Pre-1.3 I could keep myself up no problem and if they where undergeared I could actually dot the opponent up.

 

Now no matter what I do it's pointless to keep playing. And once I get a icon over my head, its a even faster death as 4-5 people jump me. I spend more time in the respawn locked behind the invisible door then playing anymore. So thank you for the fun everyone but I am going to retire my three healers (sage, combat medic and sorcer).

[Raansu]

Well 3rd day since 1.3 and I have given up playing my inquisitor class anymore. If I am getting destroyed by a single dps trying to just keep myself healed and I am in full battlemasters then something is wrong. Pre-1.3 I could keep myself up no problem and if they where undergeared I could actually dot the opponent up.

 

Now no matter what I do it's pointless to keep playing. And once I get a icon over my head, its a even faster death as 4-5 people jump me. I spend more time in the respawn locked behind the invisible door then playing anymore. So thank you for the fun everyone but I am going to retire my three healers (sage, combat medic and sorcer).

 

They removed adrenals and on use relics. Controlled burst is completely gone. If anything you should be having a easier time. BTW stop pugging.

[JeffrenBrek]

I tend to agree.

 

Sorc healer is just completely useless as it is.

Op and Merc Healer have a better mobility, shorter cast times, better heal outpot and a better defense.

[spaace]

Sure healing isn't 100% perfect... but it's still good.. I say our only problem is that we dont have a way of a quick big heal for emergency (cant count bubble cuz it has 17-20s debuff)

Maybe you people need better dps and tanks to peel **** off you?

 

I have no problem.

 

Me and Scoundrel healer are usually 1:1 (depending on map and where the fighting is.)

 

Group comp:

1(sometimes 2) tanks, 2 healers, filler DPS (no we dont stack vanguards or sents... we actually have 1 shadow tank, 2 shadow dps we swap in)

[cdogknight]

Healers crack me up... They actually think that if a maurader is on them bursting them down, then they should just be able to mindlessly sit there and heal themselves through two lightsabers ripping them apart... im glad they changed what they did in 1.2 where crappy healers could run around healing themselves thus making 1v1 non-viable.

Oh ... and by the way good healers still manage a ton of healing and keep themselves up just fine. Don't blame the game for your failings.

[JeffrenBrek]

Sure healing isn't 100% perfect... but it's still good.. I say our only problem is that we dont have a way of a quick big heal for emergency (cant count bubble cuz it has 17-20s debuff)

Maybe you people need better dps and tanks to peel **** off you?

 

I have no problem.

 

Me and Scoundrel healer are usually 1:1 (depending on map and where the fighting is.)

 

Group comp:

1(sometimes 2) tanks, 2 healers, filler DPS (no we dont stack vanguards or sents... we actually have 1 shadow tank, 2 shadow dps we swap in)

 

You missed the point.

 

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to play Sorc healer. (Huttball aside)

Your healing is crap compared to what Merc and Op can do. You cannot move, while the others have at least one instant heal.

Sorc also has the longest cast times and once your force is down, you're pretty much screwed.

 

I just don't see how Sorc can be fine.

[TheLordMaster]

Its impossible to even get one casted heal off in high level Ranked PvP now. Its just obnoxious. My entire of heals is on cooldown. Force sprint is absolutely worthless because we can be snared, stunned, slowed, and leaped to while trying to force sprint.

 

The issues with sorc healing is further exposed when in high level play. And lets not mention running out of force, since well 90% of time you will be killed before you need to consume for more force.

 

also signed full war hero healing sorc w/ 1332 expertise.

Edited June 28, 2012 by TheLordMaster

[NissiK]

Its impossible to even get one casted heal off in high level Ranked PvP now. Its just obnoxious. My entire of heals is on cooldown. Force sprint is absolutely worthless because we can be snared, stunned, slowed, and leaped to while trying to force sprint.

 

The issues with sorc healing is further exposed when in high level play. And lets not mention running out of force, since well 90% of time you will be killed before you need to consume for more force.

 

also signed full war hero healing sorc w/ 1332 expertise.

 

Honestly a pretty accurate representation of what happens against good teams. Operative healers are the ONLY way to go atm for their mobility healing and instant casts.

[Keggitz]

Last I checked we had two instant abilities that either absorb damage or heal, bubble and resurgence. Three if you count talented purge. All be it small in comparison to other ac heals, but we do have them. So please stop with the miss information.

 

The question is if these shouldn't be more powerful, or have a more beneficial effect. A proc would be nice for one of the cast heals, ie some heal ability has x% to proc an instant cast dark heal or dark infusion.

 

I don't disagree with wanting better healing, just don't put out misinformation.

[Darth_Philar]

Last I checked we had two instant abilities that either absorb damage or heal, bubble and resurgence. Three if you count talented purge. All be it small in comparison to other ac heals, but we do have them. So please stop with the miss information.

 

The question is if these shouldn't be more powerful, or have a more beneficial effect. A proc would be nice for one of the cast heals, ie some heal ability has x% to proc an instant cast dark heal or dark infusion.

 

I don't disagree with wanting better healing, just don't put out misinformation.

 

No one counts the bubble (3K heal on 17-20 sec CD) or the HoT (lol @ 2-3K over 9 sec wit h6 sec CD) as an instant heal because they cannot be used as instant heals. It is not misinformation to suggest that they are not instant heals since they aren't.