I absolutely HATE PVP at 50....

[Sendai_S]

I don't know what it is.

 

Is it that I constantly seem to fight incredibly geared folks?

 

Is it expertise?

 

All I know is pre-50 I pretty much do amazing and then all of a sudden at 50 it just turns all the way around. It's honestly enough to want to quit over.

 

I also tried a ranked warzone today with a full 8 man pre-made. We fought the same same-faction group over and over again... all valor 100s with fully augmented warhero custom gear. Most of my team barely got 1 medal each - the luckiest of us got 6 or 7 medals. My team had recuit with some battlemaster mostly.

 

So far, I'm not impressed with the ranked system... it should be judging teams versus teams based on gear as well as "ranks" that it obviously needs time to develop. But here's the big question: what if a high ranked team queues and the only other team queueing is a LOW ranked team and no other teams are queueing. Do they fight each other? Or is there a timer to try and keep them apart so that they have a better chance to fight someone that will actually be a fair fight?

 

Thing is - I come to these games for end-game PVP. But I'm used to good PVP like from the days of Dark Age of Camelot, where there wasn't separate gear for PVP (worst idea ever :: expertise :: imho) and the rewards system was MUCH slower to progress through thus less supremely overpowered folks to fight. But with the speed at which PVPers gain the overpowered factor in SWTOR in PVP it's staggering. I remember 4 days after launch a PVPer was the first 50 on my original server.

 

It basically goes to say that gear is everything and the king of the hill that get's there first seems to always win the most.

 

Imho, PVP gear should be the equivalent of PVE gear - no separate armor - no expertise. Level the damn playing field.

 

10-49 PVP is fun. 50 - is NOT.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Sendai_S
typo

[Technohic]

Certainly stay out of Ranked if you do not have the best gear you can get. You should always gear as good as you can and expect a hard time until you can get that far.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I don't know what it is.

 

Is it that I constantly seem to fight incredibly geared folks?

 

Is it expertise?

 

All I know is pre-50 I pretty much do amazing and then all of a sudden at 50 it just turns all the way around. It's honestly enough to want to quit over.

 

I also tried a ranked warzone today with a full 8 man pre-made. We fought the same same-faction group over and over again... all valor 100s with fully augmented warhero custom gear. Most of my team barely got 1 medal each - the luckiest of us got 6 or 7 medals. My team had recuit with some battlemaster mostly.

 

So far, I'm not impressed with the ranked system... it should be judging teams versus teams based on gear as well as "ranks" that it obviously needs time to develop. But here's the big question: what if a high ranked team queues and the only other team queueing is a LOW ranked team and no other teams are queueing. Do they fight each other? Or is there a timer to try and keep them apart so that they have a better chance to fight someone that will actually be a fair fight?

 

Thing is - I come to these games for end-game PVP. But I'm used to good PVP like from the days of Dark Age of Camelot, where there wasn't separate gear for PVP (worst idea ever :: expertise :: imho) and the rewards system was MUCH slower to progress through thus less supremely overpowered folks to fight. But with the speed at which PVPers gain the overpowered factor in SWTOR in PVP it's staggering. I remember 4 days after launch a PVPer was the first 50 on my original server.

 

It basically goes to say that gear is everything and the king of the hill that get's there first seems to always win the most.

 

Imho, PVP gear should be the equivalent of PVE gear - no separate armor - no expertise. Level the damn playing field.

 

10-49 PVP is fun. 50 - is NOT.

 

I was explaining this when my guildies were talking last night.

 

Do not enter Ranked PVP unless your entire premade is on vent and is rocking full War Hero.

 

It isn't worth it otherwise. Stick to regular PVP while you work your way up.

[arkitip]

I don't know what it is.

 

Is it that I constantly seem to fight incredibly geared folks?

 

Is it expertise?

 

All I know is pre-50 I pretty much do amazing and then all of a sudden at 50 it just turns all the way around. It's honestly enough to want to quit over.

 

I also tried a ranked warzone today with a full 8 man pre-made. We fought the same same-faction group over and over again... all valor 100s with fully augmented warhero custom gear. Most of my team barely got 1 medal each - the luckiest of us got 6 or 7 medals. My team had recuit with some battlemaster mostly.

 

So far, I'm not impressed with the ranked system... it should be judging teams versus teams based on gear as well as "ranks" that it obviously needs time to develop. But here's the big question: what if a high ranked team queues and the only other team queueing is a LOW ranked team and no other teams are queueing. Do they fight each other? Or is there a timer to try and keep them apart so that they have a better chance to fight someone that will actually be a fair fight?

 

Thing is - I come to these games for end-game PVP. But I'm used to good PVP like from the days of Dark Age of Camelot, where there wasn't separate gear for PVP (worst idea ever :: expertise :: imho) and the rewards system was MUCH slower to progress through thus less supremely overpowered folks to fight. But with the speed at which PVPers gain the overpowered factor in SWTOR in PVP it's staggering. I remember 4 days after launch a PVPer was the first 50 on my original server.

 

It basically goes to say that gear is everything and the king of the hill that get's there first seems to always win the most.

 

Imho, PVP gear should be the equivalent of PVE gear - no separate armor - no expertise. Level the damn playing field.

 

10-49 PVP is fun. 50 - is NOT.

 

The ranked WZs just came out, and it says in the patch notes it takes 10 matches to get a rank. From what I understand, at that point the system tries to match by rank, but if a match isn't available it will match a high rank team vs. a low rank team. In this instance a loss isn't supposed to have much, or any, effect on the lower ranked team.

[TheLordMaster]

I mean I don't really know what to tell you, the games been out for quite some time now and people have been PvP'ing a lot at 50 and have spent time time and effort perfecting their skills and gear.

 

Do you have the recruit set? Its garbage but still way better than wearing PvE gear. Also if you pvp'ed from 1-49 you should have comms saved up to buy a few pieces of Battlemaster/War Hero. You wouldn't expect to be able to jump into a Tier 3 raid as a fresh 50 would you? So put some time and effort into getting battlemaster gear its incredibly easy to do so.

 

Also ranked is probably a very bad idea for you if your not geared. Spend some time in the normal queues to get comms and get some gear.

Edited June 26, 2012 by TheLordMaster

[Rawksoss]

Wait a week then all the high ranked teams will be fighting eachother and you will get to fight the terribads with equal gear to yourself. This is also preseason to work out all the kinks for the people that couldnt/didn't bother to try it on on PTS.

[Regulaser]

so do i. people are gonna say oh the everyone is pre 50 is just terrible. not true. everyone starts somewhere, and great players play in the lower brackets all the time, especially ones that hate having to do the boring missions all over again. its expertise. thats all it comes down to. and people will argue and argue that its needed, when in reality its not. just give everyone who enters a warzone flat stats across the board and what do you know? even playing field where only skill will matter. argue all you want but theres nothing unfair about everyone having equal stats. tanks would still be harder to kill than dps, healers would be healers. seriously, there is absolutely no reason for expertise besides the mindless gear grind and the fact that most of these "pro" pvpers just want to have better gear than everyone so they can dominate. they argue for expertise all the time just so they dont have to have an equal playing field even tho they deny that all day.

[Dmasterr]

Do you go in hardmode operations in green gear then complain that it doesn't adjust difficulty on gear?

 

Besides, relax... its just first day, everyone starts from 0, you need to wait a bit for teams to detach and find their place.

 

You will still be matched based on rating however, and still able to meet low ranked (new, or bad) teams, in max gear.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Helig]

I think it should have been the other way around - Expertise should have been a PvE stat that would boost performance against non-player enemies. The current state of affairs just makes PvP gear gaps too big.

[CharterMonkKent]

I mean I don't really know what to tell you, the games been out for quite some time now and people have been PvP'ing a lot at 50 and have spent time time and effort perfecting their skills and gear.

 

Do you have the recruit set? Its garbage but still way better than wearing PvE gear. Also if you pvp'ed from 1-49 you should have comms saved up to buy a few pieces of Battlemaster/War Hero. You wouldn't expect to be able to jump into a Tier 3 raid as a fresh 50 would you? So put some time and effort into getting battlemaster gear its incredibly easy to do so.

 

above in red. i think more casual pvpers need to take this into account

[Helig]

Do you go in hardmode operations in green gear then complain that it doesn't adjust difficulty on gear?

 

Thing is - you raid entry-level content, then you gear up and progress to higher content. Here, you are instantly playing Nightmare mode.

[Asturias]

I mean I don't really know what to tell you, the games been out for quite some time now and people have been PvP'ing a lot at 50 and have spent time time and effort perfecting their skills and gear.

 

Do you have the recruit set? Its garbage but still way better than wearing PvE gear. Also if you pvp'ed from 1-49 you should have comms saved up to buy a few pieces of Battlemaster/War Hero. You wouldn't expect to be able to jump into a Tier 3 raid as a fresh 50 would you? So put some time and effort into getting battlemaster gear its incredibly easy to do so.

 

Also ranked is probably a very bad idea for you if your not geared. Spend some time in the normal queues to get comms and get some gear.

Winner! +10 internets for you my good Sir!

[Helistin]

But the ranked are here. Now you can bound your heads to the 3 tank + 3 healer + 2 dps teams. Outlasting for the win.

[dagrouch]

Please get recruit gear and stop invading my 50 wz's. I'm tired of pugs coming with crap gear and wondering why they don't dominate 50's like they dominated 10-49 bracket.

[UGLYMRJ]

I was explaining this when my guildies were talking last night.

 

Do not enter Ranked PVP unless your entire premade is on vent and is rocking full War Hero.

 

It isn't worth it otherwise. Stick to regular PVP while you work your way up.

 

This guy gets it...

[UGLYMRJ]

Please get recruit gear and stop invading my 50 wz's. I'm tired of pugs coming with crap gear and wondering why they don't dominate 50's like they dominated 10-49 bracket.

 

1. recruit gear IS crap gear....

2. Everyone is given free recruit gear at 50 after 1.3 which hit servers today.

[Rehme]

1. recruit gear IS crap gear....

2. Everyone is given free recruit gear at 50 after 1.3 which hit servers today.

 

But inevitably there will be idiots who still think they can pvp in pve gear and opt to take the credits instead. lol

[Sendai_S]

I mean I don't really know what to tell you, the games been out for quite some time now and people have been PvP'ing a lot at 50 and have spent time time and effort perfecting their skills and gear.

 

Do you have the recruit set? Its garbage but still way better than wearing PvE gear. Also if you pvp'ed from 1-49 you should have comms saved up to buy a few pieces of Battlemaster/War Hero. You wouldn't expect to be able to jump into a Tier 3 raid as a fresh 50 would you? So put some time and effort into getting battlemaster gear its incredibly easy to do so.

 

Also ranked is probably a very bad idea for you if your not geared. Spend some time in the normal queues to get comms and get some gear.

 

Ok a little history.

 

I PVPed A LOT when the game first started. I reached Valor 50 quite fast. Once I was finally able to open champion bags, I practically NEVER got gear. I started to keep track of what I got and how many bags I opened.

 

Out of 60+ bags, I got 2 earpieces, a pair of bracers and a pair of boots.

 

Then they changed the system slightly (more tokens in bags and less chance of RNG) and I got a full set of Champion gear. Which of course, is WORTHLESS, in the new system when they introduced it. It put you back to square one if you have anything less than Battlemaster - which of course, you had to be valor 60 for.

 

Discouraging to say the least.

 

If they had had some kind of trade-in system for champion gear to help curb the shock it would have helped at least a little. But no. Champion gear is higher in stats but lower in expertise. So again, recruit gear is the only thing you can wear. SOOOOOO many wasted Warzone commendations now.

 

So now here we are. And a fresh 50 has been getting thrown to the wolves everytime. As an above poster said, in comparing it to PVE it's like doing Storymode, Hardmode, and then Nightmare. But unfortunately, even in regular Warzones PVP you don't actually get to CHOOSE your mode that you're fighting. If you're in recruit - you still fight that guy in full Augmented War Hero who does nothing but PVP all day.

 

Expertise = bad.

 

If they had just made the gear tiers the same for PVE and PVP and not done the segragation between the two camps then everyone would have a fair shot at being competitive. This is essentially elitism at this point. I already have to keep 4 different sets of armor around for all of this garbage... 4X14 = 56 pieces of gear needed... (on my shadow specifically that's TANK and DPS PVP gear and TANK and DPS PVE gear.)

 

Personally, I feel like I'm done. I think Bioware *****ed the pooch when they decided to copy WOW.

[Sendai_S]

I don't think you guys get it. /sigh

[Technohic]

I think it should have been the other way around - Expertise should have been a PvE stat that would boost performance against non-player enemies. The current state of affairs just makes PvP gear gaps too big.

 

You have to give PvP people something to work for, and PvP love getting the top of the line gear. The problem is, they should make non-ranked warzones have a a balanced entry point or something along those lines. Maybe in stead of bolster, there is a cap on stats when entering to where all level 50s can play at least somewhat competitively with limited gear disparity in order to work on getting gear. Once you go to ranked though; no holds barred and expect to get rocked.

 

Hey, if they put a limit on stats in non-ranked 50, maybe they could bolster up to that limit and have all levels in the 1-50 bracket again?

Edited June 26, 2012 by Technohic

[Sendai_S]

Please get recruit gear and stop invading my 50 wz's. I'm tired of pugs coming with crap gear and wondering why they don't dominate 50's like they dominated 10-49 bracket.

 

Elitist.

 

This is the problem exactly. My Shadow should actually be in full Battlemaster by now. WOULD be in full BM actually except for the fact of how the changes to PVP came out and what state my toon was in WHEN they made those changes. Each change happened at the WORST possible time.

 

To review - I never got RNG gear in champ bags.

 

I spent all my Warzone comms on Champ gear only to not get to Battlemaster due to my server population dying and having quite literally no one to fight when i was able to play as well as the fact that Champion became worthless in 1.2 when they introduced Recruit gear with MORE expertise on it.

 

This is what I'm seeing now on fleets "X with 1500 expertise looking for Ranked WZ group."

 

That should tell you the entire story right there.

[Boyana]

I don't know what it is.

 

Uh, aha, yeah, you know what it is! Black and yellow, black and yellow!

 

p.s. Sorry, I had to do this!!!

[YanksfanJP]

Expertise = bad.

 

If they had just made the gear tiers the same for PVE and PVP and not done the segragation between the two camps then everyone would have a fair shot at being competitive. This is essentially elitism at this point. I already have to keep 4 different sets of armor around for all of this garbage... 4X14 = 56 pieces of gear needed... (on my shadow specifically that's TANK and DPS PVP gear and TANK and DPS PVE gear.)

 

I love how you people blame expertise for the problem when it's not. If they removed expertise you'd still be getting crushed... except this time you'd be getting crushed by the people raiding nightmare modes over your fresh 50. It doesn't matter. Either way you're going to get decimated if you are new to level 50.

 

What makes expertise "the lesser of two evils" is that you don't have to be forced to raid to get gear to pvp with. You can just pvp and get it as you go. It doesn't even require you to be GOOD! Getting the best pvp gear in this game only require TWO things: Patience and Time. That's it. No skill at all. You can lose every single pvp match you ever play and still get the best gear. That would not be a possibility if you had to raid for the best pvp gear, so actually, expertise is your friend!

 

The part that's frustrating to new 50's is how terrible recruit gear is - you might as well not be wearing any. Even with a full set you still hit like a wet noodle and still get killed in a matter of seconds.

 

I'm not saying new 50's shouldn't have to work a bit for their gear, but they shouldn't have to endure getting repeatedly destroyed over and over on the way. Letting people buy and bank BM gear while leveling would be a nice way to fix this problem. If they are actively pvping while they're leveling, let's at least spare them the agony of the grind to full BM before they can get War Hero. Save the destruction for the new 50's who have never pvp'd before and have yet to earn their "stripes" so to speak.

Edited June 26, 2012 by YanksfanJP

[CharterMonkKent]

Elitist.

 

This is the problem exactly. My Shadow should actually be in full Battlemaster by now. WOULD be in full BM actually except for the fact of how the changes to PVP came out and what state my toon was in WHEN they made those changes. Each change happened at the WORST possible time.

 

To review - I never got RNG gear in champ bags.

 

I spent all my Warzone comms on Champ gear only to not get to Battlemaster due to my server population dying and having quite literally no one to fight when i was able to play as well as the fact that Champion became worthless in 1.2 when they introduced Recruit gear with MORE expertise on it.

 

This is what I'm seeing now on fleets "X with 1500 expertise looking for Ranked WZ group."

 

That should tell you the entire story right there.

 

The server population issue is something that a lot of us have dealt with so I feel your pain there. I couldn't max out my new lvl 50 toon's WZ coms before hitting 50. But. It takes almost no time to get into full BM now, even for a casual player like myself. Also now that augments are available for all gear (past green), BM is completely fine for rated.

[L-RANDLE]

1. recruit gear IS crap gear....

2. Everyone is given free recruit gear at 50 after 1.3 which hit servers today.

 

Thank god for # 2 BTW..... Now the whiners can quit using someone elses gear as the reason for their butt hurt...

Edited June 26, 2012 by L-RANDLE