Thoughts on GameSpy's Article on SWTOR

[DarthKhaos]

If you haven't played it, why are you comment about it at all? Your opinions of the game are informed necessarily by what you've heard from others.

That's why I talked about SW:TOR you didn't see me talking about how I hate how GW2 environments look did you?

But that didn't stop you from jumping on why I didn't talk about GW2 environment. ~smh~

[CelCawdro]

I really would not hold out any hope for 'titan'.

 

I'm not.

 

My point is that gaming "journalists" love to create flame wars, pitting the Next Big Thing against Yesterday's News. Not that Titan will actually be as revolutionary as every MMO attempts to make itself out to be. Likewise, you are misleading yourself, or have been misled, if you think that Guild Wars 2 is going to alter the paradigm of the genre.

Edited June 20, 2012 by CelCawdro

[Jedi_Wannabe]

Regarding the PvP aspect we can't say anything because SWTOR is a PvE game and GW2 is a PvP game.

 

I agree with this completely.

[Dezzi]

Again with the semantics. And the article in question clearly exists only in incite flame wars and to gain hits on the page - it seems that's what gaming journalism has devolved in recent years. I'm sure we'll be seeing "Ten Places That 'Titan' Succeeded There 'Guild Wars 2' Failed" soon enough.

 

It's all about the Next Big Thing.

 

Correct, but then it was an argument about semantics. I guess you failed to recognize that in your first reading.

 

You cannot prove that the article "clearly exists [to] incite flame wars and gain hits on the page." You can't. You or I cannot prove the motives of the author. What I can prove is that you have done nothing but attempt to discredit the author on the grounds that you disagree with him. Good for you; you disagree with an opinion.

 

As to those supposed articles you read in the tea leaves of the future, if and when that happens, you can strut around like a prince. Until then, making the claim only makes you look like you're straw-grabbin'.

[Kharnis]

No, I don't think that. But then, the article in question does point out weaknesses in GW2. I guess you have your eyes covered when you read those parts.

 

Really? Point out these weaknesses that the article supposedly brings up, if you don't mind. And no, mentioning that "some people" have complained about how the game "feels" doesn't count. I'm talking about the game mechanics that he (the author) is playing up for GW2 while downplaying TOR's.

[Shingara]

Well its all conjecture, we wont know what the playing feild is really like until swtor has some more content in to flesh it out, what mop is like when it hits and the changes to talent trees, the Black market and what it sells and if real money market ever hits it ( probably wont but this is blizzard we are on about) and what happens when GW2 hits, how will the microtrans effect the playerbase, being able to buy gems and trade them for gold and visa versa, being able to buy xp, karma and crafting boosts, cos what the prices and drop rates they have on the beta more then likly wont be the prices they see in live.

 

Cos its longevety thats this is all gonna run down too, wow has proven it has or had it, swtor has to still prove it and GW2 is unproven.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Shingara

[Fox_McCloud]

Likewise, you are misleading yourself, or have been misled, if you think that Guild Wars 2 is going to alter the paradigm of the genre.

 

It already has, people have played it and love the massive innovations. I am convinced that part of the reason SWTOR is struggling is because people see something much better in GW2 (after having actually played it) and know that they dont have to pay monthly fees to get it.

 

I like SWTOR, but I have to admit, playing GW2 made my interest in SWTOR really begin to wane. Maybe they can do some stuff to fix it, but I think the problems are too deeply rooted in this games mechanics. I think you almost need a redesign with the new age mechanics that GW2 brings.

 

Fast paced action 'twitch' combat, dynamic events, etc.. is what people want, that's why Terra and even elder scrolls online are bringing that as well.

 

Guild Wars 2 is definately the first of the new generation of MMOs. My bet is that it will be the best of the bunch for years to come, just like World of warcraft was the first of the really successful "quest" MMOs as compared to Everquest which ironically did not level you with quests. Now quests have become dynamic events, and that is a huge transition.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Fox_McCloud

[Dezzi]

The "random" events will feel refreshing and new the first time you do them. And the next. And cool, you didn't see that scenario before! But once you start to see events repeating, things will unravel quickly. Once the launch bubble of players is gone and you can never take out that giant golem, you will become flustered.

 

Guild Wars 2 is going to be absolutely vibrant at launch, but its system do not support a post-launch playerbase. Likewise, its combat may feel a little different, but relative to other new entries in the genre such as Tera, it is nothing new. Again, simply a veil on the EQ-vein of mechanics.

 

Quite frankly, I was looking forward to Guild Wars 2, as well, until I actually played it. As much as I tried to resist the hype, I eventually fell (I have to admit, though, that I found a little strength to resist again when they announced that they invented dryads). The game is everything is purports to be, but only on the surface.

 

Sorry, I didn't catch this back there. Responding now...

 

You know what was "refreshing and new?" Discovering that the developers added even more dynamic events between the first and last beta weekends. Depending on the outcome of each event, there was a second dynamic event that played against the first. You'll also note that events are scaled, so even if I show up with a couple of people, the difficult will match. No fluster there.

 

Not sure about your assertion about post-launch support for the playerbase as I'm not sure exactly what you're commenting on there.

 

The combat doesn't feel different. At all. It's still pushing a button when the timer runs out. The same is true of TERA and SWTOR. It's the presentation that matters, and in this case I find combat in GW2 to be more visceral and fast-paced than it is in SWTOR. If you're trying to argue that being cookie-cutter isn't something to write home about, I'm sure you have plenty to criticize about SWTOR--a game which takes many pages out of WoW's book.

 

I was taken in by the GW2 hype. That's just a testament to the powers of persuasion and advertising. Where GW2 succeeded for me, however, is that it ultimately delivered on my expectations--with a few things lacking, of course. SWTOR did not live up to my expectations and the pace at which the team is addressing the game's issues is not sufficient for me to justify the subscription. SWTOR doesn't support my playstyle, despite the developers' many claims to the contrary. So ultimately I'm disappointed by SWTOR and pleasantly surprised by GW2.

[chimunga]

....and I might add, if one were to look, that this OP's posting history is filled with post after post bashing our game, most of which are his person opinon or conjecture. Do not let the "Oh, look what I tripped over on the internet" facade fool you. It would appear that he went hunting for negativity and found Beavis and Butt-Head out there bloviating about how they could do it better. ;p

 

Huh. You're right. Not a single nice thing to say,

[Muskaan]

Any MMO that's not been released yet is always hyped up like it's the second coming. Till it's released and reality sets in.

 

Been following MMOs for years and the same kind of hype had been associated with--

 

1. Warhammer Online

2. Age of Conan

3. FFXIV

4. Aion

5. TERA

 

and now the following unreleased ones--

 

6. TSW

7. Guild Wars 2

8. Archeage

9. Wildstar

10. Project Titan - Blizzard hush-hush MMO FPS.

 

Journalists feed on the hype and get hits for their websites by sensationalizing the hype. It's their job and they are doing a good job of rousing people and getting them hyped up about what is effectively now "vaporware".

[Dezzi]

Really? Point out these weaknesses that the article supposedly brings up, if you don't mind. And no, mentioning that "some people" have complained about how the game "feels" doesn't count. I'm talking about the game mechanics that he (the author) is playing up for GW2 while downplaying TOR's.

 

Sure, I'll do that for you:

I do have my worries about the system, such as the way it sometimes seems to discourage one-on-one chats because you just finish the kill and get on with your lives, but even at its weakest it avoids the sense of isolation that build up while in SWTOR's cinematic world. Even if we don't always talk to other players, we're at least interacting with them, and I think most players will agree that Guild Wars 2 gets that crucial factor right.

Here he very clearly states that despite being a more social game, GW2 still has trouble getting people to socialize. Unless this is a compliment? I must have missed where this was glowing praise.

I know this probably counts a downside for some of my old raiding buddies, but, at least these days, I like the idea of there being something to my MMORPGs besides rushing to the level cap and participating in scheduled raids.

Oh! And here he points out that any title lacking traditional end-game is standing on shaky ground. He freely admits that more traditional players may have trouble with this aspect of GW2.

I do think they'll need frequent content updates to keep that model sustainable, but I'm not that worried because...

Here he states that the team will have to maintain consistent content updates in order to compete with the model they've chosen. That's not a good thing, is it?

 

So either you missed all of this or intentionally ignored it. I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Dezzi

[Fox_McCloud]

Any MMO that's not been released yet is always hyped up like it's the second coming. Till it's released and reality sets in.

 

Your theory has some holes in it, if you go further back you can add the World of Warcraft hype back when everyone was playing Everquest and the like.

 

Lots of people were like oh yeah Everquest will be the game still and only Everquest 2 can suceeed because sony has so much experience in MMOs while blizzard has none, they will make it too casual and that will break the game.

 

However WoW became the next evolution in the MMO genre. Just like GW2 is the next evolution in the mmo genre.

 

As WoW showed, some hype DOES live up to expectations. GW2 is showing that same trend, people have already played GW2 a lot, and they love it. There is no hush hush here.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Fox_McCloud

[Hambunctious]

I'm just so sick of the high fantasy stuff that I can't bring myself to consider GW2.

 

I just hope The Repopulation gets completed.

[Muskaan]

Your theory has some holes in it, if you go further back you can add the World of Warcraft hype back when everyone was playing Everquest and the like.

 

Lots of people were like oh yeah Everquest will be the game still and only Everquest 2 can suceeed because sony has so much experience in MMOs while blizzard has none, they will make it too casual and that will break the game.

 

However WoW became the next evolution in the MMO genre. Just like GW2 is the next evolution in the mmo genre.

 

Thought somebody would say that. Wow was an exception that proves the rule. And that's why I talked about the "second coming".

[Dezzi]

I'm just so sick of the high fantasy stuff that I can't bring myself to consider GW2.

 

I just hope The Repopulation gets completed.

 

The case can be made that Star Wars is more in the realm of high fantasy than it is in science fiction.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Dezzi

[CelCawdro]

Sorry, I didn't catch this back there. Responding now...

 

You know what was "refreshing and new?" Discovering that the developers added even more dynamic events between the first and last beta weekends. Depending on the outcome of each event, there was a second dynamic event that played against the first. You'll also note that events are scaled, so even if I show up with a couple of people, the difficult will match. No fluster there.

 

Not sure about your assertion about post-launch support for the playerbase as I'm not sure exactly what you're commenting on there.

 

The combat doesn't feel different. At all. It's still pushing a button when the timer runs out. The same is true of TERA and SWTOR. It's the presentation that matters, and in this case I find combat in GW2 to be more visceral and fast-paced than it is in SWTOR. If you're trying to argue that being cookie-cutter isn't something to write home about, I'm sure you have plenty to criticize about SWTOR--a game which takes many pages out of WoW's book.

 

I was taken in by the GW2 hype. That's just a testament to the powers of persuasion and advertising. Where GW2 succeeded for me, however, is that it ultimately delivered on my expectations--with a few things lacking, of course. SWTOR did not live up to my expectations and the pace at which the team is addressing the game's issues is not sufficient for me to justify the subscription. SWTOR doesn't support my playstyle, despite the developers' many claims to the contrary. So ultimately I'm disappointed by SWTOR and pleasantly surprised by GW2.

 

I have my share of issues with SW:TOR, although there are many things that I like. I have my share of issues with Guild Wars 2, although there are many things that I like. What I do not like is "journalists" that revel in pitting two games against each other, arbitrarily. It would have been much wiser to pit features against MMOs that have done said features beforehand (addressing story in SW:TOR, public quests from WAR, PvP from GW1, etc.). Instead, the writer very obviously has a bone to pick with SW:TOR and is picking and choosing what categories to deride it on, instead of writing a fair article to compare Guild Wars 2 to the genre as a whole.

 

As I said, he's only doing it to incite players - he wants to stir SW:TOR players into a defensive frenzy, and he wants to ensure that Guild Wars 2 followers become even more firmly mounted on their hype-laden high horse. And he's succeeding.

 

Sensationalist journalism is nothing new. I just believe that gaming journalism is better than this tabloid-quality drivel. It loves to prove me wrong, though.

Edited June 20, 2012 by CelCawdro

[Valkirus]

I thought it was good article. I agree with most of his points. Esp the point about the worlds in TOR being dead/stagnant. However the voice over and many cinematics invovled with the class story while leveling does add a lot immersion into the experence and TOR does that better than any other MMO. But once you hit level 50..that attraction is over.

[CelCawdro]

The case can be made that Star Wars is more in the realm of high fantasy than it is in science fiction.

 

"High fantasy" is a specific type of fantasy. I doubt that anyone would argue that Star Wars is not fantasy, but it very clearly is not high fantasy.

[mangarrage]

I personally do not care about the success of either game but I feel this "article" is just plain and simple trash

 

I think once people get it through their head that media is controlled for the most part by companies. And not just gaming media...

 

One person's opinion also doesn't contitute an article or anything to be taken as anything but a guy posting on some random blog.

 

The article holds about as much water as the posts in the general section of any game in the last 7 years or so, which simply put is 95% garbage.

 

With all that being said. I am a gamer and I feel it is sad that I will be playing both of these games, why? because there simply isnt any better alternatives.

And the only reason I'll play both is one is free

This article is almost completly inaccurate, having alread tested gw2 and am subscribed to sw

 

The story is of absolutely no contest. It doesn't "get in the way" in gw because it is a bland, common story. If you played sw for the story that bw tells, you will not be in the least bit entralled by gw2 story

 

player interaction is pretty laughable imo on both games. gw has that rift like encounter system almost stupid in the early stages and almost useless for guilds. Walk out to an area, join a zerg and kill something. Yippee you did it in Rift and you can do it here too. It is forced player interaction-not player created interaction and that is a huge difference

 

Cannot disagree at all with #3 that is pretty spot on and I would be very surprised if the majority disagreed with that

4 well lol this is a huge negatiive for a huge number of people

and 5 well there isnt enough info on either side to even make this statement

 

gw2 really will be a casual zerg fest game nothing more

There may be some servers where the pvp is actually entertaining but for the most part their "pvp" will be one huge zerg killing PvE mobs to get control of points, which btw isnt pvp at all

60 people rolling 2 or 3 guys then killing some miniboss isnt pvp

 

Sadly because of the mentality of alot of gamers today, the zerg fest, instant gratification, massive rolling smaller numbers of people is precisely what they want

 

And yes like everthing else this is 95% garbage

Edited June 20, 2012 by mangarrage

[Kharnis]

Sure, I'll do that for you:

 

Here he very clearly states that despite being a more social game, GW2 still has trouble getting people to socialize. Unless this is a compliment? I must have missed where this was glowing praise.

I have to admit, that's pretty damning criticism. "Despite the fact that we don't feel the need to talk one-on-one with other players, it doesn't matter because it's not needed."

 

Oh! And here he points out that any title lacking traditional end-game is standing on shaky ground. He freely admits that more traditional players may have trouble with this aspect of GW2.

There is nothing more stinging than having a reviewer say, "My friends may not like no end-game, but I think it's so brilliant that I'll put it as my number four reason why this game is going to be better than another game." Clearly, ArenaNet's devs took a mighty body blow with that one.

 

Here he states that the team will have to maintain consistent content updates in order to compete with the model they've chosen. That's not a good thing, is it?

 

So either you missed all of this or intentionally ignored it. I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

But this? This was the worst of them all. "It'll be a problem if they can't accomplish this, but I know they will, and that leads me nicely to my final point about why this game is better." Whew. Even I felt that one, and I don't even work for ArenaNet. I don't know how the game will recover from these points, but I'm suddenly worried for the future of GW2.

[Sagimore]

Gotta give it to GW2, they manage to turn traditional weakness into their strenghts. Or so some say.

 

No end content in your mmo? booooo. GW2 has no traditional end game content? Thats genious, why hasn't anyone ever thought of that before?!

 

 

After the first week people will be complaining that they finished the game. Dont get me wrong I am super casual, but still dont want to feel like I finished the game. And as far as adding content....where is the profit in that for a game that doesn't have a subscription. They make their money on expansions with new content. How they managed to show no end game as a positive is beyond me..Well done.

[Fox_McCloud]

After the first week people will be complaining that they finished the game. Dont get me wrong I am super casual, but still dont want to feel like I finished the game. And as far as adding content....where is the profit in that for a game that doesn't have a subscription. They make their money on expansions with new content. How they managed to show no end game as a positive is beyond me..Well done.

 

I think the people who worry about "end game" are really missing the point that GW2 is making.

 

Those "raids" that people are use to in other MMOs endgame content are experienced at levels 1-80 in GW2, all the way up, and the nature of level scaling and dynamic events means that you are always free and able and challenged to go back through the level 1-80 content and still have fun.

 

This time you may lose the event against the big dragon attacking a town and so the dragons minions may control the town, where as when you were leveling up you defeated the dragon and the event lead you chasing him back to his cave where all this treasure is.. who knows. Its a living breathing world and playing the game really feels like it.

 

Raiders raid the same static boss over and over and this is considered end game?

 

How is that different from participating in GW2s more major event chains that lead to a big boss that you have already done? The answer.. its not in any significant way, other then the fact that dynamic events can actually branch off in different directions depending on success or failure.. for added fun.

 

It is also important to note that redoing lower level events is still worth while since you get Karma from any level event and karma is a universal currency that allows you to buy gear, so you can still gear up by helping new players with events you have already enjoyed (although a bit slower).

[Sporin]

I disagree with the #1, I prefer SWTOR's way and really GW2 VO are horrible.

 

Yeah it's great being railroaded into choices that you would never pick, say or do, only to find out it didn't matter anyway cus the outcome was the same and you MUST pick one, cus we wouldn't want NOT to be a clone or a member of the Dark Council (It must have more seats than Cowboys Stadium! Lol).

[Elhanan]

When objectivity appears to have been removed as early as the title, why bother reading? Next....

[Mikeni]

SWTOR won't die. It's just obviously not for everyone.

 

Some people tried to force themselves to get into the Star Wars lore and storyline prior to playing SWTOR only to realize that they didn't like SW's story enough to justify looking at all of those cuts cenes. They realized that they would be much happier playing a fantasy based game such as WoW, Tera, GW2.

 

Sci Fi (Even Star Wars) isn't going to guarantee you 10 million subscribers. The game has to be based on something that MMORPG players have shown they love the most. Generic High-Fantasy Worlds. They want Elves and Orcs and Goblins and Dwarves. Perhaps the prospect of playing an Alien in SWTOR hyped them up enough to buy the game. But once they realized how alike all of the races looked, and how none of them have pointy ears, they soon turned away from the game.

 

Will SWTOR die? No.

 

Final Fantasy XIV isn't dead yet and that game was arguably the biggest failure there ever was or ever will be in MMORPG history, and it's still around some how. Gearing itself up for a full revival and re-release in 2013. If a game like that refuses to die, then SWTOR won't be dying any time soon either.

 

GW2 will come and go. People will either love it or hate it. When the next big fantasy MMORPG comes out you'll see GW2 haters line up to talk smack about the game they bought and played for months so that they can hype up the shiny new never-been-touched new car smell MMORPG that is just around the block.

 

I think I like where I'm at. I've been a huge Star Wars fan for a long time, and I've grown tired of all fantasy except some Dark Fantasy. So here is where I shall stay.

 

Don't worry, I'll leave a seat warm for you guys if you ever come back.