Freeborne Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Is recruit gear worth it, vs. Rakata/Campaign? (While you still have so little expertise from no PvP gear.). Currently, getting about 60 expertise from a piece of recruit gear is costing me 60 endurance, and 60 aim. In WZs I think the recruit gear is hurting my survivability more than helping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Thats a tough call. Might as well wait and save up for BM. it doesnt take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) If you go into WZs in PvE gear expect to be useless as everyone will switch his target onto you immediately for the free kill and the free 5k medals. Also no healer won't bother throwing something your way, as your health bar will move so fast that it will hurt your eyes. So if you have a masochistic intention to also get flamed (and rightfully so) by your team when you join WZs with 0 expertise go ahead Edited June 19, 2012 by Twor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyvaris Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Without any expertise you will be taking around 15% more damage and dealing around 18% less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJkristensen Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I would Suggest getting the implants and relics or 3-4 other pieces, and mix and match take the pieces with most expertise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Top end PvE gear is nearly equivalent to Recruit gear for PvP purposes. You won't have the Expertise, but the increased Base stats and Endurance are a statistical wash (Black Hole is actually about 4% better for PvP than Recruit gear). Bioware made them equivalent on purpose so that Raiders can get started with PvP without having to buy all new gear (similar to how War Hero is good enough to get you started with Raiding). Recruit gear is for people who have done nothing at level 50 yet and want to start doing Warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikrazy Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Top end PvE gear is nearly equivalent to Recruit gear for PvP purposes. You won't have the Expertise, but the increased Base stats and Endurance are a statistical wash (Black Hole is actually about 4% better for PvP than Recruit gear). Bioware made them equivalent on purpose so that Raiders can get started with PvP without having to buy all new gear (similar to how War Hero is good enough to get you started with Raiding). Recruit gear is for people who have done nothing at level 50 yet and want to start doing Warzones. Can you back that up with a formula? All I can say is that anyone with less than 600-800 expertise will get their faces melted off in 2 seconds. When I have full WH gear, my damage reduction is around 15% (as cyvaris said). That's huge... Also, my WH gear is actually way better than rakata/columi, especially with my augmented armor. So it doesn't just get my started with raiding, but it allows me to run the hardest PvE content in PvP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Can you back that up with a formula? All I can say is that anyone with less than 600-800 expertise will get their faces melted off in 2 seconds. When I have full WH gear, my damage reduction is around 15% (as cyvaris said). That's huge... Also, my WH gear is actually way better than rakata/columi, especially with my augmented armor. So it doesn't just get my started with raiding, but it allows me to run the hardest PvE content in PvP gear. I'm at work, so I don't have my spreadsheets in front of me with all the raw data, but I was able to find a post of mine from a similar thread that had the results of the comparison: I just ran the numbers comparing full Recruit to full Black Hole (no Relics, Datacrons, or Buffs) for a Sorcerer. Black Hole gear has the following statistical advantages over Recruit (note that the PvP Expertise Bonuses have already been taken into account) Bonus Damage - 4.18% Bonus Healing - 23.09% Health - 33.11% Damage Reduction - 10.01% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmosedici Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 All I can say is that anyone with less than 600-800 expertise will get their faces melted off in 2 seconds. Saw a Tanksin with 0 expertise do 300k+ damage and 100k protection in Denova. FYI this was in the Shadowlands after the server transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikrazy Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Interesting stats Philar. Will have to try this on a pvp training dummy, unless they're still not working as intended... As for tankassins, everyone knows they're OP! But seriously, those numbers are ridiculous. Could have been that the other team was just really bad though? 100k is a lot of damage to soak up though, but if he had a decent healer on him, it shouldn't have been an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Rakata has hands down better stats overall even including recruit expertise in the calculation BUT this last as long as u are full heal because if u add an healer in the calculation the healer will heal you for 3000 his 3000 heal will be worth 15/20% more on Recruit then Rakata because you will get 15% less damage so put Rakata & Recruit at same HP after like 5 second of fight when they both are low and they both receive an heal same if someone dare to guard you... you will be getting 23% more damamge (yep a WH has 1300exp that is 23% more damage) so you in ur rakata are getting hit for 5000 instead of 4000 and the guarding guy is getting 2500 (500 more then he should) honestly speaking i think overall Recruit is better but if u have rakata is not a big deal for the first week in 1 week u can replace AT LEAST half of it with BM and BM is WAY BETTER Edited June 19, 2012 by Pekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceasaigh Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Expertise expertise expertise expertise... Do I need to repeat it? You go into a WZ with sub 500 expertise you do not factor in that WZ. You may as well be naked and give it a try. But as for helping your team., You are a liability not an asset. Edited June 19, 2012 by Ceasaigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RefugeASSASSIN Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The consistent flaw that always gets ignored in this argument is that when your in a warzone you NEED that 20%+ mitigation more then ever if for one specific reason alone: FOCUS FIRE. In Rakata or BH gear 1v1 you might survive long enough to win, but if you are getting hit by 2 people with over 1000 expertise, you will die substantially faster then you would in recruit gear. At the very least buy 3 or 4 pieces of recruit gear and use your implants, ear and maybe belt or bracers as PVE gear. You HAVE TO HAVE EXPERTISE or your gimping your team. Whether you are in Rakata gear or not, your still not getting anything near 23% mitigation and 20% damage bonus from the extra main stats you are trying to hold on to. Your just not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I like my recruit gear, I got to ask, is an 896 expertise good, because that is how much my free full recruit set gave me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I like my recruit gear, I got to ask, is an 896 expertise good, because that is how much my free full recruit set gave me It's a good start, but you'll want to keep your expertise above 1100 before you start playing with swapping implants, relics, earpiece, and mods for added stat gains. As always, look at your stat sheet. Are you gaining more DPS and hp by going with a pve item(s) than you are losing by trading off that expertise? Usually you won't be able to afford to do this until you mostly have full WH, and by then you'll have a clearer idea of what you need to improve to benefit you more in warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 If i dont do pve should i bother getting rakata?? It has no expertise right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 If i dont do pve should i bother getting rakata?? It has no expertise right? How would you get Rakata without doing PvE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synxos Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I'd assume you were a cheapskate, and took the 300k. So I would suggest that everyone vote kick you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurQue Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 It wont make any difference, you'll melt just as fast in full recruit gear as you will in anything without expertise. Recruit gear is a joke, a bad one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 That rakata gear aint going to do you much good. 0 expertise? Say hello to 24% bonus damage from a WH player. I instantly mark anyone who is wearing rakata or any kind of pve gear in pvp. It's literally a free 5-6k crit for everyone. Yes, the stats on recruit gear is lower than on rakata, however expertise makes up for that difference. Without that damage reduction from expertise you are just going to melt instantly from any other player that even glances at you. So please, for the love of God wear recruit gear. The gear is 100% free now, there is no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Expertise works in 2 ways: 1) Boosts damage dealt (and healing) 2) Reduces damage received If Player A and Player B have the exact same amount of expertise, both damage dealt and damage received cancel out. It doesn't matter if both have 1300, 900 or zero expertise. If Player A has maximum (~1350) expertise and Player B has zero, Player A will do approximately 25% more damage to Player B, while Player B does approximately 20% less damage to Player A. As a sniper with near max expertise, I can roughly generate 25K unmitigated damage in about 10-12 secs (one rotation - shatter shot (instant), ambush (2.8sec), probe (instant), followthrough (instant), series of shots (2.8sec), snipe (instant, with laze target 100% crit), followthrough (instant), take down (instant)) versus a zero expertise target. (not bragging or exaggerating, any sniper/gunslinger at 1300 expertise can do the same thing) So in 10-12 seconds, even the hardiest PVE'er goes down if he has zero expertise - and sniper's do not even have the highest burst in the game, so I can imagine a dps Sorc/Sage or Mara/Sent can do it even faster. It is fair to say, that players in recruit gear have considerably less health than players in PVE gear. Even with the damage reduction from ~900 expertise, a recruit gear player will probably not survive much longer than a PVE geared player with zero expertise. The interesting part is what happens to me during the 10-12 second fight. Versus a PVE geared player, the damage I receive is minimal because I also have full 20% damage reduction against even the most powerful attacks. At 900 expertise, the player in recruit gear will only suffer an approximately 5% damage reduction. Hence, he will be able to hurt me during the 10-12 sec fight - perhaps enough to force me to pop a defensive cd, use a stim or break cover. By doing so, the recruit gear player can be useful to his team, while the PVE guy just died without a purpose. Now, this effect is more pronounced for some classes than others. A melee tank in PVE gear might literally never get close to me before he dies, while a ranged dps might fare a little better during the short fight. Bottomline, 1.3 gave you free expertise gear - use it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XyriusSES Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Stick a fork in him, he's done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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