Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Eleuril]

"Makes sense" makes me a little uneasy as well, even though the strong feeling I got at the time is that they were most plainly excusing companions like Skadge and Broonmark and Blizz rather than necessarily saying "if you couldn't tell from the get-go that Talos is a little light in his loafers, you're blind."

 

Personally, I do think Talos comes off as kind of queeny. And, as in the case of the firearms merchant described above, that doesn't appeal to me. Andronikos is much more my type, although I understand others feel differently. I will be disappointed if SGRs are played to stereotype, but I also think that BioWare's stated desire to do it right can be read as saying they also wish to be cautious with such things.

 

I hope so, but it would be nice to hear from them. But that is the subject of a coming post.

 

I didn't originally pick on "makes sense" meaning anything worthy of concern. My own assumptions were much the same as yours: that some companions were just not romance material and would therefore not be available for SGRs.

 

Personally, yeah, on reflection Talos seems a fairly obvious choice, but I don't think that is necessary a bad thing. Really, my initial perception was that he was just small, excitable and a bit proper. In my mind, he could just as easily be asexual and obsessed with his work. I've known a few people like him in real life who were straight or just not interested. Hopefully Andronikos will be available too, for the people who prefer him. I am generally in favour of more choice all round.

 

(P.S. My straight male SI is clamouring for someone who isn't Ashara. She drives us both completely spare. I am sure some of the not-straight ladies might appreciate it too.)

[Baptes]

Nope. No "Space Divorce" as it were. Well even when you get married its a few letters a gift or two and that's the last you hear of them anyway.

 

Hell, Vette doesn't even call my Jugg "Sweetie"! Pitiful that Doctor Who gets more affection from his wife than I do mine.

[natashina]

i dont see why this is an issue at all, i mean its just a game.

 

PvP is just part of the game, raids are just part of the game. Why this makes it a bigger priority than story content escapes me. Sometimes other players forget that there is an another large draw about this game: The story and the roleplaying. This is important to roleplaying folks like me. We were promised this content going back to September last year. If you check out the SGR faq that many of the posters have in their sigs, it answers this kind of stuff. Bioware's stance, George Lucas' stance, quotes from devs and writers, ect.

 

On another note i dont see bioware putting this into the game at all just coz you look at the history of BW and swtor and making changes or fixes isnt there strong suit.

 

Okay, I'm not sure where you are coming from with this. ToR did launch with some problems, but from my observation the game is quite smooth all in all. They have made very quick changes and fixes and are better about the "Soon" idea when it comes to that. A good example from recently is the GTN. It crashed for less than 24 hrs and they got it back up. So far, that shows some pretty decent quality in their bug fixes. If you want BioWare's views on SGR content, look no further than the Mass Effect or Dragon Age series. If you are really curious, look up the It gets Better foundation. Bioware employees themselves discuss the importance of inclusion for the LGBT community.

 

Besides, one of the PvP devs said that it was coming in 1.5, with the story update(and new planet too! woot!) After several posters tweeted Hall Hood(one of the lead writers for ToR,) he confirmed that the youtube vid that mentioned SGRs was true. So, unless otherwise stated, it appears to be coming at 1.5

 

Nope. No "Space Divorce" as it were. Well even when you get married its a few letters a gift or two and that's the last you hear of them anyway.

 

Hell, Vette doesn't even call my Jugg "Sweetie"! Pitiful that Doctor Who gets more affection from his wife than I do mine.

 

I was hoping that wasn't the case, but oh well. It makes me glad I saved my 50 for someone special.

Edited October 1, 2012 by natashina

[Uluain]

Neither of my Sith can bring themselves to trust their formerly Jedi companions, and neither will offer either any sort of task which would require that, but that is neither here nor there.

 

Prim and fussy are very much stereotypical traits which gay men are expected to exhibit, and in Talos' case that is how they struck me (alongside his interest in antiques ). Other aspects of the character do appeal to me. He is a favorite companion for my SI, as RP-wise my character is himself deeply interested in Sith history, ritual and lore. Talos had me at "I am a Naga Sadow man, myself". It was good to be working with a professional who could understand my work. So in my head-canon, Talos isn't a former Imperial Reclamation Service officer but a current one assigned to assist my Sith Lord personally.

 

I would definitely romance Aric Jorgan on my trooper if he became available, to the extent of re-rolling my trooper as Cathar when they are introduced. Bonding through shared reliance on each other in warfare is very appealing to me, but then I am a Platonist and have always admired his "army of lovers" concept from the Symposium. I guess they don't really cover that in school though, so I can see why the idea isn't more current.

 

Mostly, though, I am looking forward to Corso. Romance is much, much more in character for my Smuggler than for any of my other characters. The rest don't have that area of their lives that clearly defined (although my female agent probably prefers women). And I'd like to see decent, wholesome Corso as a morally good character able to also be open to same-sex romance, simply to show that it can be seen as consistent with a strong moral sense. Maybe a guy won't even have to get him drunk.

[losdia]

Can I just ask, why exactly did we ditch the thread over in General Discussion? The mods didn't lock it, they even cleaned it out like they would this one, but no new post in like two days. I'd try to keep it going myself, but I literally can't think of anything to say on it that wouldn't be synonymous with "bump."

[Uluain]

Can I just ask, why exactly did we ditch the thread over in General Discussion? The mods didn't lock it, they even cleaned it out like they would this one, but no new post in like two days. I'd try to keep it going myself, but I literally can't think of anything to say on it that wouldn't be synonymous with "bump."

 

I am shy of even seeming to bump my own threads. In the forum circles I move in, at least, it's considered tacky. I haven't abandoned it. I simply don't have anything new to say there, myself, as I have arrived at what I think is the explanation behind Hall Hood's non-confirmation confirmation and, if I am correct about that, no further BioWare response (the aim of the thread at its inception) will be forthcoming.

 

If others have things to add, I'd be delighted, but the one I am more eager to see kicked around and discussed is my thread on Same Gender [Flirt] Prompts in the Suggestion Box. That is an issue that no one at BioWare has ever addressed at all, and one that I feel is at least as important as companion romance.

[Kioma]

Can I just ask, why exactly did we ditch the thread over in General Discussion? The mods didn't lock it, they even cleaned it out like they would this one, but no new post in like two days. I'd try to keep it going myself, but I literally can't think of anything to say on it that wouldn't be synonymous with "bump."

 

I think you just answered your own question there, Iosdia. What to say to continue a thread when it's directed at people who won't respond, and anything we can write there is just a pretty bump?

[Eleuril]

Prim and fussy are very much stereotypical traits which gay men are expected to exhibit, and in Talos' case that is how they struck me (alongside his interest in antiques ). Other aspects of the character do appeal to me. He is a favorite companion for my SI, as RP-wise my character is himself deeply interested in Sith history, ritual and lore. Talos had me at "I am a Naga Sadow man, myself". It was good to be working with a professional who could understand my work. So in my head-canon, Talos isn't a former Imperial Reclamation Service officer but a current one assigned to assist my Sith Lord personally.

 

He gets on well with my other SI, too. Both obsessed with Sith lore and Dark Side artifacts and so on. I can see them both geeking out over something or another, whether he's SGR-enabled or not. Doesn't bother me if some people perceive him as a bit "stereotypical" or not, as long as the other SGR companions aren't the same. (I thought he was just posh tbh.)

 

EDIT: I just went over this post again this morning and I think I came across as a bit dismissive, which I didn't intend. Uluain, I can see your point about aspects of Talos' personality not being to your liking. Hopefully there will be a bit more diversity among the SGR-enabled companions and people will be able to choose according to their own preferences.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Eleuril

[losdia]

I think you just answered your own question there, Iosdia. What to say to continue a thread when it's directed at people who won't respond, and anything we can write there is just a pretty bump?

 

Yeah, but wasn't there kind of a consensus to turn that other thread into the thread that actually asks for clarifications on BW's position, since it is in the more high profile forum, while we let this thread degenerate into it's natural state of OT SGR discussion?

[Kioma]

Yeah, but wasn't there kind of a consensus to turn that other thread into the thread that actually asks for clarifications on BW's position, since it is in the more high profile forum, while we let this thread degenerate into it's natural state of OT SGR discussion?

 

Was there? o.O

[Uluain]

Yeah, but wasn't there kind of a consensus to turn that other thread into the thread that actually asks for clarifications on BW's position, since it is in the more high profile forum, while we let this thread degenerate into it's natural state of OT SGR discussion?

 

I am trying hard to help the Community Team not need to close it by keeping the thread fairly close to the specific topic of Makeb. I also think that regardless of that it will tend to attract those wanting to sound off on SGRs in general, because it is in a high profile forum. I honestly expected it to be seen, noticed by the Comm Team, and shut down. That it wasn't was a very pleasant surprise, so I am being extra careful to observe rules of conduct to help keep it open.

 

Of course, I have no magical powers to prevent anyone else from posting anything that enters their head, but I wouldn't dream of encouraging anyone to exploit the fact that the thread is on a more high profile forum in a calculated move to bring the issue to a broader audience, and I even sternly discourage it.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Uluain

[Henu]

im not having a go at anyone but i just fail to see why this would or could bug anyone.

[Uluain]

im not having a go at anyone but i just fail to see why this would or could bug anyone.

 

I'm confused. Do you mean why having SGRs in game would upset people, or why not having them could?

 

Either way, I don't think your post is out of line here.

[Henu]

I'm confused. Do you mean why having SGRs in game would upset people, or why not having them could?

 

Either way, I don't think your post is out of line here.

 

To me personaly i would not care either way but i see post after post about this and fail to understand why so many people do care. IMO its not what the games about... if i was interested in something like that i'd be playing the SIM's maybe.

[haksilence]

there will never be a same sex romance option. ever. They want to maintain the games T rating and adding in Homosexual tendencies to the game will be too much and would bump it to a M game.

 

and dont go spounting about how "Bioware is a bunch of bigotous *****s!" cause they ahve several games were homosexual romance options are huge in the game.

 

Also the star wars universe has never expressed Homosexual tendencies ever. i highly doudt they will now.

[Uluain]

there will never be a same sex romance option. ever. They want to maintain the games T rating and adding in Homosexual tendencies to the game will be too much and would bump it to a M game.

 

Wrong. The ESRB rates romantic or intimate content by degree of explicitness. What we have in SWTOR is within what is rated as T, and the rating is not affected in any way by whether it is same-gender or opposite-gender content. Why would it be? It's imaginary characters displaying non-explicit affection. Here's the official statement:

 

Thank you for contacting the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB). We sincerely appreciate your taking the time to write.

 

The ESRB is a non-profit, self-regulatory body that assigns age and content ratings for video games and mobile apps so parents can make informed choices as to which are suitable for their children and family. As part of its self-regulatory role for the video game industry, the ESRB also enforces industry-adopted advertising guidelines and helps ensure responsible online privacy practices among companies participating in its Privacy Online program.

 

We understand that sexual themes have the potential to be of concern to consumers, which is why all such content must be disclosed during the rating process. In specific regard to your question, ESRB’s ratings criteria do not distinguish between heterosexual and same-sex content when it comes to addressing sexuality in games.

 

We hope this information is helpful, and thank you again for writing.

 

Best regards,

 

Entertainment Software Rating Board

 

EA/BioWare are far from being bigoted in this regard. In fact, both companies have strong reputations for inclusiveness and for not being swayed by pressure from socially conservative organizations. So of course we won't say that. They did kind of create an unfortunate impression regarding a commitment to inclusiveness by leaving this out at launch, but all indications is that it has been in development since and will in fact be released alongside other new story content with Makeb.

 

There is precedent in the broader Star Wars material but it really would not matter if there wasn't. EA & BioWare have committed to this content. If you are basing your satisfaction with the game on its exclusion, then do be aware that it is on the way and you may need to adjust your expectations to fit that reality.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Uluain

[ebado]

To me personaly i would not care either way but i see post after post about this and fail to understand why so many people do care. IMO its not what the games about... if i was interested in something like that i'd be playing the SIM's maybe.

 

Factually though, it is, at least in part, what the game is about. The main selling point of this game, both from fan reaction and BioWare PR, is the BioWare-style cinematic storytelling. Part of that storytelling has included romance interests. It's what people expect, and given the attention some of the romance arcs get in the game's story, it's clearly what BioWare intended.

 

If you are more focused on some other part of the game, that's fine. But this is part of it, too, and if that important difference between TOR and other MMOs is difficult to understand, I guess you're just going to have to live with it.

[Uluain]

To me personaly i would not care either way but i see post after post about this and fail to understand why so many people do care. IMO its not what the games about... if i was interested in something like that i'd be playing the SIM's maybe.

 

Fair enough. Thanks for being frank and civil.

 

No, you are right, it isn't what the game is about overall. But the game is about story. And a big part of that is these additional characters we acquire as sidekicks and get to know over time. Companion stories are completely optional. You never actually have to engage in these side-stories to play or to make use of your companions. But the stories are there and a lot of people enjoy them.

 

In the same way, for example, some people like crafting, or space combat, or Warzones, although none of these are really what the game is about. They are features.

 

Back to companion stories, one element within those is the possibility of taking the story in a romantic direction. Again, wholly optional. It just is there to add a little extra depth to the companion and make the whole thing a little more interactive and player-directed. I have never heard anyone express an objection to that.

 

Except, of course, until the idea that this should extend to companions of the same gender. Then we hear people say they would rather have BioWare remove all romantic elements than have these options in the game. (I want to say I do understand that you are not saying this yourself. I am speaking of those who are strongly opposed. I appreciatte your moderate approach.)

 

A game benefits from offering things to different kinds of players, and accomodating different interests. People who would rather take away existing content rather than include options they object to work against that. They hurt the game.

 

This isn't a surrogate social life. I don't need an imaginary relationship in place of a real one. But the romantic content is there for opposite gender couples. I don't see why same gender options shouldn't be as well. People who don't like it aren't required to play it. They can just ignore it. It adds something some people want and takes away nothing from anyone else's experience.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Uluain

[ganondorq]

seriously... i SERIOUSLY hope that dude is just trolling. it's been stated more times than i'll even bother to count, that everything he said is wrong >.<

 

anyway, moar on topic... i really hope they make it with makeb, idk how much longer i can wait

[Uluain]

seriously... i SERIOUSLY hope that dude is just trolling. it's been stated more times than i'll even bother to count, that everything he said is wrong >.<

 

anyway, moar on topic... i really hope they make it with makeb, idk how much longer i can wait

 

You mean Haksilence? -shrug- Nothing there is abusive or insulting, just mistaken.

 

I think Henu is fine, maybe a bit unsure why we'd care, but that's okay too. Polite about it.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Uluain

[ganondorq]

oh, nothing was offensive, just so wrong >.<.... looking around just a tiny bit would have answered his entire post lol.

[ShupFace]

Also the star wars universe has never expressed Homosexual tendencies ever. i highly doudt they will now.

I believe Juhani was a tentative expression of homosexual tendencies.

[Uluain]

looking around just a tiny bit would have answered his entire post lol.

 

Well, perhaps. But at close to 2,000 posts the thread can be a bit daunting. And in any case, one good use of this thread, as I see it, is to provide clarification as well as asking for it.

[natashina]

I'm adding the ESRB ratings statement about their ratings to the FAQ. There is some posters that come in and believe that homosexuality content would automatically rate a "M" rating here in the US. If they were to bump the rating up, I'd expect it would be for torture(already in game), strong adult language, and detailed renderings of blood(neither of which is in the game.) As well as extreme violence and it would take more than what is present in the game. When it comes to sexual content, as long as there is no lovers scene(ala late night Cinemax,) then the rating can stay at "T."

 

Also the star wars universe has never expressed Homosexual tendencies ever. i highly doudt they will now.

 

This is from the SGR FAQ regarding that statement:

 

9) Is SGR even canonically in Star Wars?

 

 

There are plenty of examples of SGRs in the Star Wars IP. In the games, it began with original Knights of the Old Republic in 2003, with the companion Juhani, who would only romance female Revans. There was also a same gender romance in the books as well, with Goran Beviin, who's husband was Medrit Vasur. Goran was first featured in the e-book Boba Fett: A Practical Man. The two of them were later fully realized in the book Sacrifice, both of which were by created by author Karen Traviss. They are officially recognized as canon.

Edited October 1, 2012 by natashina

[Kioma]

there will never be a same sex romance option. ever. They want to maintain the games T rating and adding in Homosexual tendencies to the game will be too much and would bump it to a M game.

 

and dont go spounting about how "Bioware is a bunch of bigotous *****s!" cause they ahve several games were homosexual romance options are huge in the game.

 

Also the star wars universe has never expressed Homosexual tendencies ever. i highly doudt they will now.

 

Incorrect. Check your facts before posting. Otherwise you just look ignorant.