So according to Bioware...

[Onyx]

Break it down even more to how many eat carrots on tuesday as opposed to thursday while having beans twice on monday and 3 times on friday and saturday

 

LOL, nice

[Holden_Dissent]

Not really sure why this thread is still open. It serves no purpose.

 

Step 1: Read something that is a general statement with no actual details.

Step 2: Make sure it's something you know ZERO about

Step 3: Assume and/or pretend that you know EVERYTHING about it

Step 4: Spin it to fit your agenda.

Step 5: Spew it on the forums

Step 6: Antiprofit

 

Congrats.

[Jederix]

Most posters, unfortunately, seem to take the approach:

 

2+2=7

 

So for most of them, Math is hardly required to make grand, sweeping statements about the state of the population.

[Insomnio]

Why can they not just inform how many people have time left?

 

Or how many people have an active subscription?

 

It doesn't seem that difficult to read the numbers from a report.

[banecolton]

And this is where your ignorance starts to show, not all subscriptions are equal…

<goes on to talk about all of the different things that could be considered a subscription>

…There is an entire host of variables that either should or shouldn't be taken into a account. It's not as simple as "count all the people herp derp."

 

What I find amusing about this is that the three points my original post made were:

 

1. Box sale are not subscriptions, bringing up box sales in a conversation about subscriptions is a dodge.

 

2. When market conditions cause a company’s “numbers” (Be they subscriptions if it is a game company, car sales for an auto manufacturer , or whatever product or service they “produce”) to not be what they my like at a given time it is pretty standard to dodge questions about “hard numbers”, so even though point one highlights the dodge in this case, point two is “yeah they are doing that, but so what, it should be expected right now when the numbers aren’t in their favor”. So essentially I am saying “nothing to see here, move along”.

 

3. Bioware knows exactly what subscriptions are active at any given time because they can check their server logs. There is no mystery, the information is there, and it is just a matter of how you want to parse it.

 

Now at no point have I suggested what criteria Bioware should use to count their subs in this situation. I have stated that the numbers I am interested in are “Active Subscriptions” and I have also out lined what I consider an “Active Subscription” to be, but not once have I said “this is what Bioware should use as their criteria to answer the question in the article”. In fact I have stated I have no interest in that conversation.

 

Yet here you are trying to drag me into just that…I don’t know if it is because you just skimmed my post’s (yeah, they got a bit long…), if you lack reading comprehension, or if you are just in “attack mode” because you are one of the reactionary types we have here on the forum that feel they must “strike out” at anyone they perceive to be saying something negative about SWTOR or Bioware/EA. Given that you both start and end your post with insults I am leaning towards the latter.

 

Regardless, the conversation you seem to want to have (in between throwing out insults) has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said, so I would suggest you find someone else to have it with.

 

[Urael]

...counting subscriptions seem to be some sort of scientific endeavor.

 

http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/01/swtor-mmo-subscriber-numbers-are-funny-things-with-lots-of-variables-to-consider-says-bioware/

 

 

 

Really?

 

Get ready to have your mind blown: How about, you count the number of accounts with an active subscription within the last month! There, now hire me.

 

Joking aside, this looks like really shoddy attempt at damage control, and it makes me wonder if things are really worse than they appear to be.

 

/facepalm.

 

Really EA/BW .... REALLY?

 

Solid B+ reasoning here.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Urael

[GrandMike]

Seriously?

 

Read the quoted comments.

 

Or, think of it this way. A cross-section of 200 million people eat vegetables. Break that down into how many eat carrots compared to how many eat beans. And how many eat both.

 

Sorry, your comment was ridiculous and simply illustrated the lack of comprehension which too many on this forum display.

 

So what part of "200m eats vegetables" is "complicated to calculate"? rofl

 

Fun part of the post is "how to pad the numbers of people who eat vegetables with people who dont eat vegetables so number of those who eat vegetables looks better and you can get away with"

 

NOW it gets "complicated" rofl

Edited June 4, 2012 by GrandMike

[banecolton]

I know I am butting in here, and on a topic you said you didn't care to discuss. Apologies. However, I believe this point is a matter of perspective.

 

They are talking about activity on the Subscription, not activity within the game. As the subscription is still being paid, it still has activity.

 

A Subscription holds no requirement for its owner to actively be engaged in its use in order for it to have activity. The "activity" is made when "a purchase [is] made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances."

 

Note: I have no more of an idea on how they, or any other company, counts their active subscribers. Just wanted to point that out.

 

Not butting in at all!

Jump on in and join the conversation, it’s what the forums are for, right?

 

Well I did outline what I considered to be an active subscription, but that certainly isn’t the only thing that could reasonably be argued to count.

 

And I think you have a valid point, but as you said I am not terribly interested in arguing the minutia on this point…so it is a useful conversation to have, just not with me.

 

With luck someone here will engage you on the point you make and you’ll be “off and rolling” so to speak.

 

Cheers.

[Kthx]

How many people do you think waited half a decade and pre-ordered SWTOR and thought "hmm.. nah might leave that one in the box"...

 

I have several games I have bought and never installed, or installed and never played beyond a short intro. No MMOs in my case, but I don't doubt for a minute that there are games bought that don't get installed, especially around Christmas time.

[ProfessorWalsh]

...counting subscriptions seem to be some sort of scientific endeavor.

 

http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/01/swtor-mmo-subscriber-numbers-are-funny-things-with-lots-of-variables-to-consider-says-bioware/

 

 

 

Really?

 

Get ready to have your mind blown: How about, you count the number of accounts with an active subscription within the last month! There, now hire me.

 

Joking aside, this looks like really shoddy attempt at damage control, and it makes me wonder if things are really worse than they appear to be.

 

Actually he's right. There is all kinds of "math" that gets involved when you want to count subscribers.

 

For example:

Blizzard's WoW often claims that they only count "Active Subscriptions™ from the last 30 days."

 

But the term:

Active Subscription™

 

Is a bit of a loaded word.

 

You see in foreign countries often people don't have to buy monthly subscriptions, instead they buy "time" this is especially popular in parts of Asia where a huge number of subscriptions often come from. So, lets say I buy 150 hours of WoW play...

 

Now, lets say I play 149 hours and 58 minutes and then I stop playing. I never open the game up again. I never touch it.

 

Guess what?

 

My subscription is active. Forever. Because until I use up all of the time I have purchased that subscription is active. So depending on how you do the math 6 million can easily, and legitimately, claim to be 10 million.

[Kthx]

Counting subscriptions is EASY: you count people that have payed you sub!

 

We already knew that you padded numbers for 1,7m and 1,3m so no surprise in this indepth "how to pad sub numbers" guide.

 

I'm not sure how that is different from the EA's method of counting. If you paid, but then canceled, you still paid. So how is the 1.7 M number padded?

 

The 1.3 M number is padded with the subset of players who got 30-day rewards, if and only if the number refers to the subscription count after April 25, which is the day the 30-day period was added to players' accounts. EA's Q4 2012 ended on March 31, however. At that point, nobody had received the 30-day rewards. As a Q4 2012 result, the 1.3M number should be accurate, even if it dropped subsequently.

[Superawesomerman]

Basically, they need to use real words and not corporate diplospeak terms. Or clearly define the meaning of the phrase.

 

Replace "active subscriptions" with "subscribers". There, the number is lower and no amount of free gametime will inflate it. Only lies will.

 

Edit: oops, forgot about the game card people. Damn I knew there was a reason for "active subscriptions"

Edited June 4, 2012 by Superawesomerman

[rhirne]

Why can they not just inform how many people have time left?

 

Or how many people have an active subscription?

 

It doesn't seem that difficult to read the numbers from a report.

 

Just because I have an active subscription, does not mean I'm an active player. And depending on how you report it will depend on how people react to it. Let's use some easy numbers:

 

Total People with time left: 100,000 subscriptions. BOOM there we are. 100,000 subscriptions.. but wait....

 

Total people who have logged in in past 30 days: 60,000. Boom there we are. 60,000 subscriptions... ohh but wait...

 

Total people who have logged in more than once in past 30 days: 20,000. Boom there we are.

 

Total people who have logged in this quarter: 75,000. Boom there we are..

 

 

See, how exactly do you report it to your investors / higher ups. It all determines what that company views as an "Active Subscription." There's a lot of "number playing" that goes along with it. It's just a big play on numbers to try and get the best looking numbers for a particular report.

[Dezzi]

Just because I have an active subscription, does not mean I'm an active player. And depending on how you report it will depend on how people react to it. Let's use some easy numbers:

 

Total People with time left: 100,000 subscriptions. BOOM there we are. 100,000 subscriptions.. but wait....

 

Total people who have logged in in past 30 days: 60,000. Boom there we are. 60,000 subscriptions... ohh but wait...

 

Total people who have logged in more than once in past 30 days: 20,000. Boom there we are.

 

Total people who have logged in this quarter: 75,000. Boom there we are..

 

 

See, how exactly do you report it to your investors / higher ups. It all determines what that company views as an "Active Subscription." There's a lot of "number playing" that goes along with it. It's just a big play on numbers to try and get the best looking numbers for a particular report.

 

How? Well good business practice dictates that you find the numbers that look best, but don't necessarily paint a more accurate picture than, say, other sets of numbers.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Dezzi

[Holden_Dissent]

How? Well good business practice dictates that you find the numbers that look best, but don't necessarily paint a more accurate picture than, say, other sets of numbers.

 

accurate to whom though. Who knows what number the investors want except BW and the investors.

[Brappo]

1.3 will be the make or break for me. Most the people I know no longer play, so depending on 1.3, I might cancel my subscription as well.

[Dezzi]

accurate to whom though. Who knows what number the investors want except BW and the investors.

 

That's a good question. Some of the statements EA made during that last earnings call puzzled me because they had to know the fans would be paying attention. These investor meetings are no longer only digested by bean-counters, but also by fans who are invested in the success of the game--like most MMO players.

 

I'm not sure there are better ways to report subscriptions or not, but they very clearly go out of their way to ensure they're reporting the best possible angle of whatever numbers they're using.

[Photoshop]

Great link.

[GrandMike]

Just because I have an active subscription, does not mean I'm an active player. And depending on how you report it will depend on how people react to it. Let's use some easy numbers:

 

Total People with time left: 100,000 subscriptions. BOOM there we are. 100,000 subscriptions.. but wait....

 

Total people who have logged in in past 30 days: 60,000. Boom there we are. 60,000 subscriptions... ohh but wait...

 

Total people who have logged in more than once in past 30 days: 20,000. Boom there we are.

 

Total people who have logged in this quarter: 75,000. Boom there we are..

 

 

See, how exactly do you report it to your investors / higher ups. It all determines what that company views as an "Active Subscription." There's a lot of "number playing" that goes along with it. It's just a big play on numbers to try and get the best looking numbers for a particular report.

 

Since when having a sub necessitates logging in?

 

Being a subscriber is being a subscriber whether you log in to the game or not.

 

Subscriber is person who is subscribed to service (includes payment for the service). No other conditions whatsoever. End of.

Edited June 4, 2012 by GrandMike

[Darth-Malice]

I'm afraid will have too use..

 

Seriously it's that hard to look at the number of subscriptions for the month and give a number?

[GrandMike]

I'm afraid will have too use..

 

Seriously it's that hard to look at the number of subscriptions for the month and give a number?

 

At this point im pretty sure 1st grader that just learned adding numbers could count subs for BW if they are incapable of doing it themselves lol

Edited June 4, 2012 by GrandMike

[MaximusRex]

Content designer talking about how how data about people who actually played the content he designed is more interesting and useful to him for designing content then box sales or sub numbers is being out of touch?

 

People need to take some classes in English reading comprehension.

[GrandMike]

Content designer talking about how how data about people who actually played the content he designed is more interesting and useful to him for designing content then box sales or sub numbers is being out of touch?

 

People need to take some classes in English reading comprehension.

 

Im sure your selective reading skill is just on par with your English reading comprehension!

[Itukaaj]

I am more active in the forums than in game.

 

I think people are continuing to leave. I have a 6 month month up in August. September will be when everyone knows who is here forever and who is not. My prediction is that subs will stabilize to 400k. Hopefully, their servers can support 40k with about 10k concurrent users (which I frankly don't believe they can at this time based on the botchulism which was Ilum --what really revealed their technical capabilities) otherwise 20k and 5 concurrent.

[Lenny]

1.3 will be the make or break for me. Most the people I know no longer play, so depending on 1.3, I might cancel my subscription as well.

 

After 4 months of constant bug report tickets and boredom, 1.2 was supposed to be the make or break patch.

 

I think the result was "break".