Resolve Redux

[TomC]

TUXs lets put this another way. in your mind when someone CCs you at exactly the right time to keep you from killing a teammate or to cap an objective is that not a skillful application of game mechanics? What could be more tactical than considering all the options and choosing the most effective at the time? More options means more choices and more choices creates more opportunity to differentiate yourself from other PvPers. Edited May 31, 2012 by TomC

[Phlem]

Because it requires a modicum of intelligence to use properly, or because it is statistically superior to any other form of DR?

 

It's statistically inferior to other forms of DR. When someone sits and waits for the stun to wear off only to be stunned again within a second (repeat this 3 times) and they are still not immune, that's where the problem is.

 

The thing that was nice about DR in WoW was you knew exactly how many stuns it was going to take to make you immune. Why they put two colors on your resolve bar only adds to the confusion. Is someone immune when their resolve bar is white or purple? That's a big part of the problem.

 

Anyone who thinks someone getting chain stunned 3 times in ~30 seconds and still not being immune is acceptable is more then likely the ones who are benefiting the most from the current system.

 

This isn't a l2p issue, or a use your brain issue. It's an issue with the current system being way more complex then it needs to be along with the resolve cap being to high.

 

Can anyone explain to me why they think it's acceptable for someone to be chain stunned 3 or more times without becoming immune?

[TomC]

It's statistically inferior to other forms of DR. When someone sits and waits for the stun to wear off only to be stunned again within a second (repeat this 3 times) and they are still not immune, that's where the problem is.

 

The thing that was nice about DR in WoW was you knew exactly how many stuns it was going to take to make you immune. Why they put two colors on your resolve bar only adds to the confusion. Is someone immune when their resolve bar is white or purple? That's a big part of the problem.

 

Anyone who thinks someone getting chain stunned 3 times in ~30 seconds and still not being immune is acceptable is more then likely the ones who are benefiting the most from the current system.

 

This isn't a l2p issue, or a use your brain issue. It's an issue with the current system being way more complex then it needs to be along with the resolve cap being to high.

 

Can anyone explain to me why they think it's acceptable for someone to be chain stunned 3 or more times without becoming immune?

 

The problem is everything you are saying is based off of a LIE or a BUG! You can't be stunned three times in a row PERIOD.

[Darth_Philar]

It's statistically inferior to other forms of DR. When someone sits and waits for the stun to wear off only to be stunned again within a second (repeat this 3 times) and they are still not immune, that's where the problem is.

 

The thing that was nice about DR in WoW was you knew exactly how many stuns it was going to take to make you immune. Why they put two colors on your resolve bar only adds to the confusion. Is someone immune when their resolve bar is white or purple? That's a big part of the problem.

 

Anyone who thinks someone getting chain stunned 3 times in ~30 seconds and still not being immune is acceptable is more then likely the ones who are benefiting the most from the current system.

 

This isn't a l2p issue, or a use your brain issue. It's an issue with the current system being way more complex then it needs to be along with the resolve cap being to high.

 

Can anyone explain to me why they think it's acceptable for someone to be chain stunned 3 or more times without becoming immune?

 

The Resolve system gives players 30% more CC immunity time than the DR system from WoW, plus it is significantly simpler to use since the meter is visable and all CCs are on the same DR whereas in WoW there is NO VISUAL INDICATOR of CC immunity and each CC subtype has its own DR table.

 

Also, see Post #2 where I completely debunked your 3 stun chain nonsense.

[TUXs]

The problem is everything you are saying is based off of a LIE or a BUG! You can't be stunned three times in a row PERIOD.

 

Maybe not "stunned", but I assure you I can be rooted or have my movement halted (whatever word it needs to be called), 3 times without filling resolve. It happens quite often vs. premades actually.

[Phlem]

Stun = 800 Resolve

Wait 4 Seconds = 800 Resolve (No Purple Decay during Stun)

Wait 0.5 Seconds = 800 Resolve (25/second decay needs 1 full second to tick)

Stun = 2000 Resolve (800 plus 800 for second stun plus 400 for exceeding 999 Resolve)

Wait 4 Seconds = 1600 Resolve (100/second decay starts immediately)

Here is where your story leaves reality and enters the realm of fabricated fantasy.

You claim that you are Stunned here after 0.5 seconds, however you still have 16 seconds of Resolve Immunity which means you couldn't have been stunned again. Additionally, 3 consecutive stuns (which is impossible) would require 3 hostiles who are coordinating their stuns against you meaning that you are using an example of 3v1.

 

There is nothing fabricated about it, it happened to me last night in Huttball. Do I need to post combat logs to prove it? Unless BW released the resolve formula, along with the amount of resolve per stun, you are purely guessing that I am wrong.

 

Matter of fact there were 3 "hostiles" from the same guild on me, and they were doing a pretty good job coordinating their stuns. I obviously cannot prove to you first hand that it happened, but you cannot prove that it didn't. As I mentioned above, your numbers are purely speculation. I've seen a lot of posts over the last several weeks with simmilar stories.

 

Now that I've wasted my time replying to your post I'm off to lunch.

[TomC]

Roots and snares are NOT part of the resolve system.

 

A lot of people in this thread need to go read this so they can have the same tools for the discussion as everyone else.

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/understanding-swtors-resolve-mechanic/

Edited May 31, 2012 by TomC

[joeypesci]

It's time to fix this once and for all. Two stuns should completely fill up the resolve bar and make you immune to future stuns until the resolve bar is no longer full.

 

The other day I was PvP'ing and in a matter of mere seconds (less then 30) I was stunned 3 times. It went something like this. Stun, wait for it to wear off, attack for 0.5 seconds, stunned, wait for it to wear off, attack for 0.5 seconds, stun again, attack for 0.5 seconds and die. Keep in mind the only reason I lived long enough to make it to the third stun was because I was getting healed.

 

It's because they've stunned your twice giving you a rull resolve and then someone or same person snared you, which ignores resolve, even ignoring a full resolve bar. Which does make it fing annoying.

[Phlem]

The problem is everything you are saying is based off of a LIE or a BUG! You can't be stunned three times in a row PERIOD.

 

Yeah, ok. So you work for BW and know exactly what the resolve formula is? And you know for a fact that it isn't possible how? Because someone theory crafted it, and because it seems close enough so it must be true?

 

If your going to accuse me of lying go troll another thread. I wouldnt have started this thread if it hadn't happened to me.

[Staalker]

I'd like to ask...where in game is the resolve bar explained?

 

I understand it, but I have seen so many people in game who have no idea what that bar is or what it does. These people are the ones who come and rage a lot because they don't understand the system. Yet, I have seen no tutorial or info on it in game.

 

Not everyone visits the forums, not everyone has a friend who can explain it to them.

 

I have seen people ask in game what resolve is, and get rude answers for being a "noob".

 

So, the "everyone understands it" excuse doesn't fly.

[Phlem]

The Resolve system gives players 30% more CC immunity time than the DR system from WoW, plus it is significantly simpler to use since the meter is visable and all CCs are on the same DR whereas in WoW there is NO VISUAL INDICATOR of CC immunity and each CC subtype has its own DR table.

 

Also, see Post #2 where I completely debunked your 3 stun chain nonsense.

 

No you didn't, you posted some numbers you saw somewhere in the Internet and assumed that's how it worked

 

Until BW releases the formula, you along with everyone else is merely speculating how the system works.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that it happened, and I'm not the on.y one that it has happened to.

[TomC]

No you didn't, you posted some numbers you saw somewhere in the Internet and assumed that's how it worked

 

Until BW releases the formula, you along with everyone else is merely speculating how the system works.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that it happened, and I'm not the on.y one that it has happened to.

 

So all of science is just speculation because god didn't hand down an explanation for how everything works? All those scientists did was test things and observe how could that be true!? I mean there is simply no way that you can test different stuns and how much resolve they add or time them with a watch! That is ridiculous no one has ever done it.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/understanding-swtors-resolve-mechanic/

Edited May 31, 2012 by TomC

[TomC]

Phlem isn't there a chance that one or two of those "stuns" was actually a root or a mezz? What classes did this to you? What skills did they use? Do you really have the combat log for it like you mentioned earlier?

[Darth_Philar]

No you didn't, you posted some numbers you saw somewhere in the Internet and assumed that's how it worked

 

Until BW releases the formula, you along with everyone else is merely speculating how the system works.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that it happened, and I'm not the on.y one that it has happened to.

 

Speculation gains validity when tested. Resolve functionality has been tested and the results have been peer reviewed on these very fora. If you don't have a video showing a 3 stun chain then your description of events lacks any kind of substantial evidence. If this 3 stun chain did actually happen then it is a bug and should be reported with an in game ticket. Posting about it here (where it won't be seen by anyone who could potentially fix it) is at best a waste of time and at worst a disservice to new players who may become confused as to how the system is intended to operate.

[TUXs]

Roots and snares are NOT part of the resolve system.

That's the biggest issue!!! That's the root (no pun intended) of this whole "resolve is broken" mentality. I don't care what it's called...not being able to move is NOT FUN! I realize the importance of SOME crowd control, but the amount we have in this game that bypasses the mechanic meant to minimize the feeling of being 100% handicapped when focused, is CRAZY! Roots and snares SHOULD add to resolve!! And whatever flipping value stuns, roots, snares, dizzy's, rofl's, chokes, cowers, freezes etc have should be equalized so that you NEVER have 2 without being at full resolve! Slowing my movement in ANY way, should add to my resolve at a rate that allows me to be immune after two for a short period.

 

I understand how the current system works and I play it like anyone else does. That doesn't mean I feel it's a good system. It's NOT! I've seen enough people complain about it in guild/group/general chat that I KNOW it's an issue Bioware should address if they want to salvage this game.

[TUXs]

Posting about it here (where it won't be seen by anyone who could potentially fix it) is at best a waste of time and at worst a disservice to new players who may become confused as to how the system is intended to operate.

 

How do you know how it's "intended" to work? Do you work for Bioware? Do you have some secret affiliation? If not, you're assuming, just like anyone else is. Bioware's the same company who thinks the sound issues since 1.2 may be from audio drivers...their credibility in knowing how their own game works is indeed in question!

[Darth_Philar]

How do you know how it's "intended" to work? Do you work for Bioware? Do you have some secret affiliation? If not, you're assuming, just like anyone else is. Bioware's the same company who thinks the sound issues since 1.2 may be from audio drivers...their credibility in knowing how their own game works is indeed in question!

 

All forms of CC add Resolve using a derived formula. The only CC that did not comply was patched and now does. That is more than enough information for someone to be able to infer intended operation.

[TUXs]

All forms of CC add Resolve using a derived formula. The only CC that did not comply was patched and now does. That is more than enough information for someone to be able to infer intended operation.

 

Ah, "infer"...so you "assume" that it's all working right...right? You know the formulas? You know the values? I was told, via patch notes on January 4th, that I'd be able to use emotes like /wave from my vehicle...try doing that tonight.

[Darth_Philar]

Ah, "infer"...so you "assume" that it's all working right...right? You know the formulas? You know the values? I was told, via patch notes on January 4th, that I'd be able to use emotes like /wave from my vehicle...try doing that tonight.

 

Stun - 200 resolve per second

Mezz - 100 resolve per second

Knockback/Pull - 400 resolve per incident

Purple Resolve Decay - 25/second AFTER CC ends.

White Resolve Decay - 100/second beginning immediately.

Any CC that moves your Resolve to 1000 or more receives a 50% resolve bonus

 

You are free to spend your own time testing these values yourself, but the legwork has been already by Kaarsa (Search the Forums for "Resolve Values" and you'll find his thread) and tested by many other players (all compiled in that same thread). You can either use the knowledge that others have gleaned, research it yourself, or ignore it.

 

I've led you to water, only you can choose to drink.

 

Here is the thread I referenced above: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=390716

Edited May 31, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[DarthOvertone]

I agree that Grey-Bar CC in PvP is unfun, regardless of the game.

 

The Resolve system is almost there. Needs two tweaks imo:

 

1. Decrease the cooldown of everyone's CC Breaker across the board by 50%.

2. Roots/Snares should contribute more toward Resolve.

[TUXs]

You are free to spend your own time testing these values yourself, but the legwork has been already by Kaarsa (Search the Forums for "Resolve Values" and you'll find his thread) and tested by many other players (all compiled in that same thread). You can either use the knowledge that others have gleaned, research it yourself, or ignore it.

 

I've led you to water, only you can choose to drink.

 

Use it for what? To pretend the system works when it clearly sucks? I'm better off wasting my time trying to convince Bioware that the system needs to be revamped.

 

Please don't think I'm arguing with you or anyone who likes the way it currently works - you guys are free to form your own opinions. I feel it's a detriment to the game the way it's currently designed though. CC's are a cause of MASSIVE frustration and it only leads to a negative end for everyone...even those who 'understand it'.

[TomC]

But the option you seem to propose is even less fun. In your version everyone is immune to snares and stuns most of the time. In objective based PvP that means whoever caps first will win. In duels it is purely a gear dependent DPS race. That is less fun to more people than a tactics driven system where you can affect control of the game field. Edited May 31, 2012 by TomC

[TUXs]

I agree that Grey-Bar CC in PvP is unfun, regardless of the game.

 

The Resolve system is almost there. Needs two tweaks imo:

 

1. Decrease the cooldown of everyone's CC Breaker across the board by 50%.

2. Roots/Snares should contribute toward Resolve.

 

I agree completely!!!! Those 2 tweaks would make it 10000Xs better!

[TUXs]

But the option you seem to propose is even less fun. In your version everyone is immune to snares and stuns most of the time. In objective based PvP that means whoever caps first will win. In duels it is purely a gear dependent DPS race. That is less fun to more people than a tactics driven system where you can affect control of the game field.

 

Not true at all. People aren't immune, they can simply escape them twice as often. It forces a change to the tactics that people have become dependent on, not a complete removal of them.

[Solates]

Here:

 

0 resolve bar = usual 2% chance to resist anything(We all have it baseline).

 

25% resolve bar = 25% chance to resist any other CC cast at you/reduces resolve decay by 25%/any cast CC on you at this level also has a 25% chance to renew break free.

 

50% resolve bar = 50% chance to resist any other CC cast at you/reduces resolve decay by 50%/any cast cc on you at this level also has a 50% chance to renew break free.

 

75% resolve bar = 75% chance to resist any other CC cast at you/ reduces resolve decay by 75%/any cast cc on you at this level has a 75% chance to renew break free.

 

100% resolve bar = 100% chance to resist any other CC and cuts resolve decay by 100%(meaning once you get 100% resolve it will last for at least 10 seconds before dropping off to previous levels)/any CC cast on you at full resolve automatically renews break free, this can only happen every 10s.

 

You want an in depth CC heavy pvp game?

 

There you go.

 

Also EVERY class should have the option to talent into lowering the cooldown of break free by 1.5 minutes total. Cooldown is way too long in such a CC heavy game environment.

 

Also things that affect accuracy/damage should also increase resolve.

Snares = 10%

Knockback = 10%

Accuracy/damage impairment = 15%

roots = 15%

Stuns = 50%

Mezzes = 75%

Chokes/fears = 75%