Guardian need a buff

[VoidJustice]

ok... ok...

 

Yes Defence guardians need a buff, Vigilance and Focus are fine...

 

the best buff for me personally would be a server merger, a couple of new Wz and OWPvp with a reason for it,

but... I digress...

 

just please don't buff Defence guardians so much, the nerf hammer comes for us all, the class is really nice in Pvp right now, not over the top, but with skill it can be made to shine. Not that there are Wz q's on my server anymore

Edited May 29, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Lymain]

def needs to be reworked entirely because there is no reason to be full def ever for pvp when you can go vig/def hybrid and be way more effective.

 

Based on Bioware's hatred for good hybrid builds, they'll probably read that statement and think "must nerf that hybrid!!" The Defense tree may or may not get buffed.

[Teioh_White]

They actually already gave it a bit of a nerf, removing the 4% HP bonus and -20% damage to self on Guardian Leap. In addition, Sweep was moved into rage tree, making it so you can't get that and Master Strike procs.

 

I wouldn't be suprised though if they want to make the boost to enraged defense and +60% crit chance on storm/dispatch work only in Shien stance though, sorta like they did to the Pyro/Shield hyrbrid.

[rawfox]

lol... Guardians are fine... this is not the thread you are looking for...

 

yeah im Guardian and im fine with them too, have not called for changes ^^

just thought, OP is not high enuff on level to get Awe already but as mentioned, Awe is a Root, not a Stun.

[Gidoru]

All that id like to see is a bottom tier talent on either 3 trees that reduces the cooldown on saberward by about 1 minute. 3 minutes on what is really the only reliable defensive cooldown they have is far too long.

 

Focused Defense is good but the simple fact that it basically eats all your rage means its basically a defensive cooldown for which you sacrifice some of your offensive capability.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Gidoru

[LiveandDieinLA]

yeah im Guardian and im fine with them too, have not called for changes ^^

just thought, OP is not high enuff on level to get Awe already but as mentioned, Awe is a Root, not a Stun.

 

Awe is not a root or a stun. Its a mez. Call it what it is

 

Roots ignore reslove, Awe does not.

[westrunzil]

Guardians dps is fine. Vengeance wrecks face!! with 4 sec immunity to controlling effects every 15 secs its just awsome.

 

when stunned = 4 focus for free

when snared = dmg boost

the highest crit chance execute in vengeance and thus the best

 

best snare in the game, gamebreaking on hutball and voidstar

more resource than you can ever spent in vengeance + back to back 2-4k crits

 

Tank spec in dps gear wrecks face expecially Mara face!

 

and Rage is pretty much the same, still viable and dishing out 6-7k aoe smashes

 

highest mobility of all classes with 2 baseline leaps ! (1 additional if specced)

 

i agree, guardian is fine

[Vodrin]

I have all AC except operative, not all are 50. I can do more damage and get more kills in WZ on every other class. Playing sniper, sage, assasin and powertech get more damage and kills with less skills and efforts. Marauder is also better at damage and kills with the same skills and efforts.

 

If this is true then you are quite simply doing something wrong with your spec or play. My current main is a DPS jugg and I am regularly in the top 3 for damage in every warzone and am always at or near the top in killing blows. The only players that regularly out DPS me on my server are a DPS PT from my guild, a DPS jugg in better gear from another guild, and an absolutely ridiculous DPS op in full WH gear. Any buff to guardians/juggs will put them squarely in line with the nerfbat in the near future. I like them just fine where they are: strong enough to do very well, but not so strong that everyone is crying about them being op.

[Vodrin]

Awe is not a root or a stun. Its a mez. Call it what it is

 

Roots ignore reslove, Awe does not.

 

Correct. And for those that do not recognize the terminology, a mez is a long duration stun that breaks on damage.

[rawfox]

true true, let get the chaos in line

 

Stun

you cant do anything, you sleep until the stun runs out.

stun does not break on dmg!

 

Mezz

immobilize, you can fight while reduced in walkingspeed up to a complete halt.

mezz does not break on dmg but you can still fight

 

Root

keeps you rootet to one place, you cannot fight while rooted

root breaks on dmg.

 

 

Well, seems i have not done my homeworks properly, so please correct this, as it is relevant to know, what incrases resolve and what not.

With the above, Awe would indeed be a Root, but hey, im so confused ^^

[HurricaneXXIV]

WZ damge is actually insanely balanced. I've seen every class top the damage meter if played and supported well.

[VoidJustice]

WZ damge is actually insanely balanced. I've seen every class top the damage meter if played and supported well.

 

sadly the q's have stopped pop'ing... at least on Kinrathi... I also have quit logging on out of pure boredom.

[LiveandDieinLA]

true true, let get the chaos in line

 

Stun

you cant do anything, you sleep until the stun runs out.

stun does not break on dmg!

 

Mezz

immobilize, you can fight while reduced in walkingspeed up to a complete halt.

mezz does not break on dmg but you can still fight

 

Root

keeps you rootet to one place, you cannot fight while rooted

root breaks on dmg.

 

 

Well, seems i have not done my homeworks properly, so please correct this, as it is relevant to know, what incrases resolve and what not.

With the above, Awe would indeed be a Root, but hey, im so confused ^^

 

A little wrong.

Stun - character cannot move, attack or use abilities. Does not break on damage.

 

Mez - functions like a stun. You can neither move nor attack, but unlike a stun the effect is broken upon receipt of damage. Examples are force lift, whirlwind, awe

 

Snare - reduces your movement speed character can still attack

 

Root - reduces your movement speed by 100%. During this time your character can still attack and use skills, but can not move.

 

In ToR Stuns and mezs add to your resolve, and full resolve gives you 100% immunity to these type of abilities. Roots and snares are not part of the resolve system.

 

It should be noted that not all ACs / specs have roots. This may be the reason for your confusion.

[Jandia]

Certain other classes and specs need help a lot more. Concealment operatives for example. Edited May 29, 2012 by Jandia

[ShadowOfVey]

I've always been surprised people haven't really complained about juggs (other than huttball sometimes). It's a really good class IMO.

 

Not that I think they need to be nerfed or anything, but they've got some really good stuff and have several useful specs.

[CTHONICON]

I feel that overall Guardians are well-balanced at the moment, with our slightly below-par dmg output being compensated with mobility and utility. AE snares/fear as well as the ability to switch stances (to guard a healer etc.) are undervalued by some pvp'rs. Basically, if you're in a pug that has a few healers and the healer keeps you alive, you're good and you can apply meaningful pressure via damage. Otherwise, you're just a medium damage output melee that is slightly less squishy that other classes.

 

I think we could use a stun ability (for focus or vigilance spec) that was like on a 2min cool-down. Additionally, anyone who claims that vigilance dmg OWNS FACE is attacking some pvp'r with recruit gear or worse. It's a medium dmg, long-term pressure spec and doesn't provide a huge amount of burst. I play it because it's more fun than the one-trick-pony that is Focus. I haven't tried focus since 1.2, so I can't comment on it just yet.

 

-Shaka

[HurricaneXXIV]

A guardian is what you want them to be with gear and spec. They can be the top damage dealers or the huttball player in the world.

[Rauthadog]

I've always been surprised people haven't really complained about juggs (other than huttball sometimes). It's a really good class IMO.

 

Not that I think they need to be nerfed or anything, but they've got some really good stuff and have several useful specs.

 

I agree, Guardian/Juggs are fine in the hands of someone not looking for a mindless deathmatch. My biggest complaint is that 2 of the top 3 talents in the Defense tree are offensive abilities. If someone is going that deep into Defense, they aren't doing it for more DPS. Add a defensive buff to Guardian Slash or something. Until you fix those top 3 talents you likely won't see full Defense Guardians in PvP, it just isn't worth giving up unremitting.

[Invictusthetaru]

Guardians don't need a buff.

[SerikFox]

If no one complains about a class and asking for the nerf - this class deserve a buff. Currently it is a guardian.

Guardian is a frontline melee class with gimped 4m range and needs a good defence even for the dps spec. DPS specced guard have no more survivability than other classes, even ranged. Havy armor and shield doesn't give a big defence advantage in PvP cause many classes ignore armore and bypass shield generator. Defence cooldowns for DPS specced guard are no better than ranged classes have, the same damage reduction shield as merc, sorc or pt have. We have temporarly HP increase for 30% for 10 sec, but after time gone we loose it again. Self heal is small and it consume a lot of focus so you either can dps or self heal.

 

Controlling abilities are pretty much below averadge, no instant stuns, no area knocback. Guard can knockback only one player on 1 min CD, just for comparison other classes can knockback all players around on shorter CD. Channeled stun for for 3 second, if you channel a stun you cannot do anything else, othe classes have 4 seconds instant stuns.

 

Gap closers are quite bad, only charge on 15 second cd and its range is 10-30 meters, so you cannot charge from less than 10 meters, but ranged classes can do damage from the full 30 meters range. Guard has a slow but it is only 4 meter range and doesn't do any damage, if you spend gcd on slow you don't do damage, while othe classes have ranged slow with damage. For example telekenetic throw 30 meter range do damage and slow at the same time, flame burst 10 meters - bypass armor do damage place dot and slow at the same time. marauder has a slow on its dot attack.

 

Would be fair to add buff to guard:

1. Change range for charge and saber throw from 10-30 meters to 30 meters without minimal distance.

2. Reduce CD to Force push from 1 min to 45 sec.

3. Add automatic slow to one of guard attacks for example blade storm.

4. Remove focus consumption from self heal.

 

Dps survives by beating opposition down, not by defending themselves from attack. You're supposed to be Anakin as Dps, Defense is Obi-Wan. And as far as damage guardian goes: it's extremely powerful if you can play it well. I play everything but gunslinger, and I can say, dps guardian is powerful. It doesn't need any changes. I don't think it needs a nerf; but it definitely doesn't need a buff.

Edited May 29, 2012 by SerikFox

[MorgonKara]

The one main point I agree with is that they have a large dead spot in their range between 4m and 10m. Doesn't sound like much but it's noticeable in PvP WZs when moving enemies are often in your dead spot.

 

Also Jug/Guards are decent in WZs but if they ever have massive open world PvP forget about it. you're better off playing a ranged class like Trooper/BH or Smug/Agent.

 

I love playing melee classes, especially the Juggernaut, but Melee is gimped compared to Ranged in this game both PvE and PvP unless you are a tank build.

Edited May 29, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Midden]

If Defence Guardian with tank gear was fine, there wouldn't be so many players using Hybrid builds / Defence spec but with DPS gear would there?

[MorgonKara]

If Defence Guardian with tank gear was fine, there wouldn't be so many players using Hybrid builds / Defence spec but with DPS gear would there?

 

That's because tank stats like defense and shields only work against white damage, not against DOTs or Force and Tech damage. Plus a little extra survivability from gear stats isn't really worth all that much when your DPS is so bad you can't even kill light armor classes. Full Tank spec/gear basically draw fire/guard damage until they are dead in pvp, without being able to kill anyone.

Edited May 29, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Annex]

I havea 50 BM jugg and a 50 WH sorc.

 

The jugg is absolutely fine, the sorc is gimp as hell at times.

 

Jugg is what I would call balanced, not up, not op.

[rawfox]

A little wrong.

Stun - character cannot move, attack or use abilities. Does not break on damage.

 

Mez - functions like a stun. You can neither move nor attack, but unlike a stun the effect is broken upon receipt of damage. Examples are force lift, whirlwind, awe

 

Snare - reduces your movement speed character can still attack

 

Root - reduces your movement speed by 100%. During this time your character can still attack and use skills, but can not move.

 

In ToR Stuns and mezs add to your resolve, and full resolve gives you 100% immunity to these type of abilities. Roots and snares are not part of the resolve system.

 

It should be noted that not all ACs / specs have roots. This may be the reason for your confusion.

 

ahh thanks for that.

 

cheers ^^