Guardian need a buff

[primori]

If no one complains about a class and asking for the nerf - this class deserve a buff. Currently it is a guardian.

Guardian is a frontline melee class with gimped 4m range and needs a good defence even for the dps spec. DPS specced guard have no more survivability than other classes, even ranged. Havy armor and shield doesn't give a big defence advantage in PvP cause many classes ignore armore and bypass shield generator. Defence cooldowns for DPS specced guard are no better than ranged classes have, the same damage reduction shield as merc, sorc or pt have. We have temporarly HP increase for 30% for 10 sec, but after time gone we loose it again. Self heal is small and it consume a lot of focus so you either can dps or self heal.

 

Controlling abilities are pretty much below averadge, no instant stuns, no area knocback. Guard can knockback only one player on 1 min CD, just for comparison other classes can knockback all players around on shorter CD. Channeled stun for for 3 second, if you channel a stun you cannot do anything else, othe classes have 4 seconds instant stuns.

 

Gap closers are quite bad, only charge on 15 second cd and its range is 10-30 meters, so you cannot charge from less than 10 meters, but ranged classes can do damage from the full 30 meters range. Guard has a slow but it is only 4 meter range and doesn't do any damage, if you spend gcd on slow you don't do damage, while othe classes have ranged slow with damage. For example telekenetic throw 30 meter range do damage and slow at the same time, flame burst 10 meters - bypass armor do damage place dot and slow at the same time. marauder has a slow on its dot attack.

 

Would be fair to add buff to guard:

1. Change range for charge and saber throw from 10-30 meters to 30 meters without minimal distance.

2. Reduce CD to Force push from 1 min to 45 sec.

3. Add automatic slow to one of guard attacks for example blade storm.

4. Remove focus consumption from self heal.

 

dude seriously quit the game you have no idea how to play your class therefor valid to ***** about right?

you wanna be a 1 man army? go play red alert!

 

its because of losers like you classes get unbalanced cause you complain and complain until you kill 8 people before dying and then still you cry. Devs most of the time stupid enough to listen to the majority of crynoobs will ablige.

The jug or guardian is amazing and you not realising is your freaking problem, every class has its role and you clearly dont understand yours.

 

so instead of coming here to cry maybe find a person who plays the class and is amazing and ask him for some tips rather then crying like a little ***** on the forums

Edited May 30, 2012 by primori

[stephenalandavie]

Clearly useless

[JeffrenBrek]

Without even reading the first post, I hope the op was not serious.

[tBenk]

It doesn't need a buff. Learn to use your class (tanking spec, specifically*).

 

*With this guide.

 

The Guardian is a DPS OR tank class, if you have to use tank spec, why call it both?

[AKfourtyseven]

Buffing my Vig Guardian would not be a good idea.

 

At all...

[Roiz]

The one main point I agree with is that they have a large dead spot in their range between 4m and 10m. Doesn't sound like much but it's noticeable in PvP WZs when moving enemies are often in your dead spot.

 

Also Jug/Guards are decent in WZs but if they ever have massive open world PvP forget about it. you're better off playing a ranged class like Trooper/BH or Smug/Agent.

 

I love playing melee classes, especially the Juggernaut, but Melee is gimped compared to Ranged in this game both PvE and PvP unless you are a tank build.

 

I agree about 4-10 meters dead spot. The only way to get to the target in this spot is force push but it has 1 minute CD, if it is on the CD you can be kited forever. Siber throw is also 10-30 meter range.

Guards need to have charge and throw 0-30 meters range or shortening CD on force push. Guard is the only one class in the game with serious dead spot. All ranged deal damage 0-30. Assasins have plenty of 10 meters range abilities. Marauder can spec for 0-30 meters range charge.

[Smashbrother]

I don't think the dead spot is really a problem because I just run away from the guy to create distance and then leap.

 

Dps guardians do need a buff to survivability though, especially focus. They die so fast. One 3 min cd doesn't help much.

[Razuache]

If no one complains about a class and asking for the nerf - this class deserve a buff. Currently it is a guardian.

 

Umm i have a level 50 juggernaut and i feel as overpowered as my sentinel so no it doesnt try get a good spec or ofc l2p u should be going with in jugg terms impale in dps spec and up to grip no channel time in defense

[DavidAdas]

Are you kidding me? I don't know what your spec is, but I've had zero complaints with my Guardian tank as of 1.2. In fact, it's disconcerting how much damage I can take before I am finally brought down... and I'm not even in full War Hero gear yet.

[Orangerascal]

Learn to combine it with Enrage (the 6 free Focus skill).

 

He means combat focus. But he's right on all his points.

 

--------------

 

The guardian is fine. 18/23 is an amazing hybrid spec with ridiculously good survivability and good damage. Plus you play the way a tank is made to be played.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Sabredance]

Buffing my Vig Guardian would not be a good idea.

 

At all...

 

And now compare your Vigilance Guardian to a Watchman Sentinel and take a deep breath.

 

I think we could use a stun ability (for focus or vigilance spec) that was like on a 2min cool-down.

-Shaka

 

I SO wish Hilt strike was a base ability.

The defense tree needs an overhaul anyway.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Sabredance

[kweassa]

Offensive stat/build Guardians/Juggs don't need any kind of buff.

 

The defensive ones, do.

 

The one single, critical element of defense which a dedicated defense Guardian/Jugg gains over other builds, that one single element, is defense/shield rating. = which, unfortunately, is nigh useless. Defense investment does show some (albeit limited) noticeable effects in the 1~49 bracket, but once over lv50 where any DPS build totes around easily over 20% critical chance, too unreliable, no matter how high the investment.

 

Ofcourse, whatever possible buffs to boost defensive Guardian/Juggs, it needs to be only applicable to the really defensinve ones, not the builds that use Soresu but have all other skills/specs set for offense.

 

Frankly, IMO, the highest 2 tiers of Immortal/Defense tree needs to be changed to greatly boost defense mechanics, with performance levels of the said skills tied to the amount of defense rating as both a bonus and inhibitor... so it rightfully compensates the defense oriented Guardian/Juggs for their sacrifice in damage, and does not benefit offensive specced Guardian/Juggs in anyway.

Edited May 31, 2012 by kweassa

[AKfourtyseven]

And now compare your Vigilance Guardian to a Watchman Sentinel and take a deep breath.

 

Compared.

 

They cant protect healers, they cant control and excel at objective play and finally, i can still smack 8/10 of the people playing them (because they dont know what they are doing). So yes, if i were only judging on the ability to kill a person in a direct 1v1, me on my Sent would beat me on my guardian, but thats not all PvP is about.

 

So again, my Vig Guardian with a buff would become OP. Id rather stay where it is than it get nerfed.

[Sabredance]

Offensive stat/build Guardians/Juggs don't need any kind of buff.

 

The defensive ones, do.

 

The one single, critical element of defense which a dedicated defense Guardian/Jugg gains over other builds, that one single element, is defense/shield rating. = which, unfortunately, is nigh useless. Defense investment does show some (albeit limited) noticeable effects in the 1~49 bracket, but once over lv50 where any DPS build totes around easily over 20% critical chance, too unreliable, no matter how high the investment.

 

Ofcourse, whatever possible buffs to boost defensive Guardian/Juggs, it needs to be only applicable to the really defensinve ones, not the builds that use Soresu but have all other skills/specs set for offense.

 

Frankly, IMO, the highest 2 tiers of Immortal/Defense tree needs to be changed to greatly boost defense mechanics, with performance levels of the said skills tied to the amount of defense rating as both a bonus and inhibitor... so it rightfully compensates the defense oriented Guardian/Juggs for their sacrifice in damage, and does not benefit offensive specced Guardian/Juggs in anyway.

 

That tree definately needs love.

Do you remember the Force block move from the Fight versus the Emperor cinematic?

That skill should have been somewhere high up in the defense tree - maybe even the ultimate.

And i think Guardians should have 10% base defense.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Sabredance

[Phobosgr]

IF by been vigilance/vengeance you think you are pure DPS then you are completely wrong and you certainly missed the role of our class.

 

Vigilance/vengeance isnt dps , it is offtank/dps and our cooldowns are just fine serving that role.

 

We don't rly need anything. Let BW work on more important stuff.

[AKfourtyseven]

Offensive stat/build Guardians/Juggs don't need any kind of buff.

 

The defensive ones, do.

 

The one single, critical element of defense which a dedicated defense Guardian/Jugg gains over other builds, that one single element, is defense/shield rating. = which, unfortunately, is nigh useless. Defense investment does show some (albeit limited) noticeable effects in the 1~49 bracket, but once over lv50 where any DPS build totes around easily over 20% critical chance, too unreliable, no matter how high the investment.

 

Ofcourse, whatever possible buffs to boost defensive Guardian/Juggs, it needs to be only applicable to the really defensinve ones, not the builds that use Soresu but have all other skills/specs set for offense.

 

Frankly, IMO, the highest 2 tiers of Immortal/Defense tree needs to be changed to greatly boost defense mechanics, with performance levels of the said skills tied to the amount of defense rating as both a bonus and inhibitor... so it rightfully compensates the defense oriented Guardian/Juggs for their sacrifice in damage, and does not benefit offensive specced Guardian/Juggs in anyway.

 

Def trees have some issues with our class. For the class to really maintain its effectiveness you have to invest in a way the other tanks simply dont and you lose effective output to the point that you are no actual threat. A flat increase to def and shield chance by 10% would fix alot - but the key change is we need the removal of the heavy penalties for using tank stance while in tank spec. It is idiotic to say the least.

[FalcoLombardi]

/agree

 

Guardians need a buff, at least in Defence (Soresu form) tree:

 

1. Cooldown of Blade Barrier and Warding Call (under Soresu) - 90 sec vs. 3 min now

2. Challenging Call (mass taunt) - must have duration 10-12 sec vs. 6 sec now and reduce all damage enemies around in -50% vs. -30% now

3. Focused defence must spend 2 focus cost in activation vs. 4 focus now and will be without focus cost in that 10 sec when its is

 

Tanks will be tanks, even in PVP.

 

We agree to deal much less damage compared in dps-classes to that classes, but we want have abilities to take from these top-dps classes same less damage on us, like we do on them.

 

I can agree with the Blade Barrier and Warding Call cool down under Soresu. Challenging call should stay how it is. And all enraged defense needs is to not dump threat (yes, this is more for PvP but I think it's needed),

 

What I think is the defensive stuff of Vengeance needs to be moved ot Immortal. I have no reason to go full Immortal when I can get 4% damage reduction + 15% more under enraged defense, and take 20% less damage for 4 seconds every time I leap. Granted, I have 18 points in there to get the Riposte buff, and Sonic Barrier and the Force Choke thing. But that's it

 

Edit: Also for Enraged defense, maybe just make it cost 5-6 Rage instead and not eat 1 rage every time it heals you

Edited May 31, 2012 by FalcoLombardi

[vimm]

I've always been surprised people haven't really complained about juggs (other than huttball sometimes). It's a really good class IMO.

 

Not that I think they need to be nerfed or anything, but they've got some really good stuff and have several useful specs.

 

And it's so much fun to play. I've got no complaints about Juggernaut; I play full Vengeance/Vigilance.

[ComeAndSee]

The thing is there's maybe 2-5 good Juggernauts on my server. The one I know that is good stacks surge + power hardcore and blows all his cooldowns and can crit clothies for over 7k with their smash.

[lijahrobinson]

And it's so much fun to play. I've got no complaints about Juggernaut; I play full Vengeance/Vigilance.

 

I play a full Vengeance as well and I really enjoy it. People will complain in huttball but my response is to tell their teammates not to stand on ledges and it will greatly reduce my power level. I also love how people still don't understand how people don't take unstoppable into account. Everytime i leap and someone blows a knockback or i see a powertech pull effect fall off i feel like i found a 20 dollar bill.

 

I don't like where the tank tree is, it def needs a buff. Make shielding/defense actually do something (in a way that doesn't also buff tankassassins anymore than they already are). Vengeance Juggs could use a small buff to their DoT damage. It doesn't have to be too much but 200 and 400 damage over 6 sec is weak, espically at the cost of 2 action points to get it to 100%. I am fine with where rage is at, Although i never played it before they made the changes to smash so i don't really know where it was before.

[Dracosz]

If no one complains about a class and asking for the nerf - this class deserve a buff. Currently it is a guardian.

Guardian is a frontline melee class with gimped 4m range and needs a good defence even for the dps spec. DPS specced guard have no more survivability than other classes, even ranged. Havy armor and shield doesn't give a big defence advantage in PvP cause many classes ignore armore and bypass shield generator. Defence cooldowns for DPS specced guard are no better than ranged classes have, the same damage reduction shield as merc, sorc or pt have. We have temporarly HP increase for 30% for 10 sec, but after time gone we loose it again. Self heal is small and it consume a lot of focus so you either can dps or self heal.

 

Controlling abilities are pretty much below averadge, no instant stuns, no area knocback. Guard can knockback only one player on 1 min CD, just for comparison other classes can knockback all players around on shorter CD. Channeled stun for for 3 second, if you channel a stun you cannot do anything else, othe classes have 4 seconds instant stuns.

 

Gap closers are quite bad, only charge on 15 second cd and its range is 10-30 meters, so you cannot charge from less than 10 meters, but ranged classes can do damage from the full 30 meters range. Guard has a slow but it is only 4 meter range and doesn't do any damage, if you spend gcd on slow you don't do damage, while othe classes have ranged slow with damage. For example telekenetic throw 30 meter range do damage and slow at the same time, flame burst 10 meters - bypass armor do damage place dot and slow at the same time. marauder has a slow on its dot attack.

 

Would be fair to add buff to guard:

1. Change range for charge and saber throw from 10-30 meters to 30 meters without minimal distance.

2. Reduce CD to Force push from 1 min to 45 sec.

3. Add automatic slow to one of guard attacks for example blade storm.

4. Remove focus consumption from self heal.

 

Guardians and juggernauts are fine, you should learn to use your full arsenal of abilities rather than flounder like an incompetent moron (which 90% of the players of this class do anyway, sadly enough).

[Sookster]

Rage juggs suck, smash is all they can do, between my vengeance jugg vs my madness assassin both well geared, my assassin still does more damage but jugg has those tools like unstoppable and pooled hatred and 60% crit chance boost to force scream and vicious throw after an impale/shatter- yet my assassinate on my assassin hits harder than vicious throw. Edited May 31, 2012 by Sookster

[Ngamok]

If you think Guardian / Juggernaut is bad...LOL. Ask FSBPY on The Fatman how he wrecks so much face as a Jugg.

[Veeius]

what level are you ?

50. And I'm not going into the "I slay dragons" tree to pvp.

[dcgregorya]

Guardian doesn't have instant stun in dps tree, level doesn't matter.

 

It's called Awe, 6 second PBAOE mez. You also have freezing force so I don't know why you're having range problems.

 

The class doesn't need a buff you need to learn how to play it. I suggest you look for videos and help on the Guardian class forum. People complaining about guardian range need to try playing a scrapper/concealment op. Both focus and vigilance get tools for dealing with range.