Turned off lvl 50 pvp straight away

[Raansu]

I don't see what the issue is. I bought recruit gear once for the hell of it and did just as well with the recruit gear as I do with my augmented WH gear. I was a little more squishy and my crits weren't as high, but overall I was still doing pretty close to the same performance. The recruit gear is a blessing for fresh 50's and you all should be damn grateful. When I first hit 50 I had to roll in with modded gear from doing dailies and had to build up expertise from the bag system. But alas none of you will ever be happy till pvp is completely gimp and everyone plays the same. Might as well just have one class and and set of gear right?

[Orangerascal]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

Of course you didn't enjoy it, you're a small fish in a big pond (lvl 50 in Recruit gear) as opposed to a big fish in a small pond (lvl 49).

 

Now suck it up soldier and stop the QQing. BM is ridiculously easy to get.

[warultima]

haha skill in a gear based game, thanks for the laugh.

 

Recruit = 16% damage / 12% reduction

Battlemaster = 20% damage / 16% reduction

War Hero = 22% damage / 18% reduction

 

WH will straight up do more damage to you and take less damage from you not to mention recruit gives you 13K health, oh yeah skill.

 

My full BM marauder 1v1 kills most sentinels including the ones that outgears me in WZ with >70% life left.

There are three (3) sentinels on my server that can take me to <20% before I kill them or kill me straight up.

It's always the same 3 people (playing mirror of my class) that gives me trouble 1v1, no matter how much more geared I get.

 

Most other sentinels I can kill 1v1, 1v2 and sometimes 1v3 if I got all my CDs up when I engage them solo.

 

You can tell yourself whatever you want so you sleep better at night tho.

Edited May 29, 2012 by warultima

[Sookster]

My full BM marauder 1v1 kills most sentinels including the ones that outgears me in WZ with >70% life left.

There are three (3) sentinels on my server that can take me to <20% before I kill them or kill me straight up.

It's always the same 3 people (playing mirror of my class) that gives me trouble 1v1, no matter how much more geared I get.

 

Most other sentinels I can kill 1v1, 1v2 and sometimes 1v3 if I got all my CDs up when I engage them solo.

 

You can tell yourself whatever you want so you sleep better at night tho.

 

Wasn't this thread about fresh 50's? Not BM vs WH, more like recruit vs WH.

[Beaunidle]

This type of discussion is exactly why I don't understand the appeal of PvP in MMO games.

 

In MMO's PvP is hugely affected by gear which can override the skill levels of the players to a significant extent.

 

For level playing field PvP so it's all down to skill, twitch reactions and ability (none of which I have) there are a huge number of combat games with multiple classes, dozens if not hundreds of maps, different objectives and cooperative play.

I genuinely don't understand why the PvP players don't avoid MMO's and play these types of games instead. MMO's are all PvE with a bit of PvP bolted on, the end result being constant whinefests about PvP imbalance when the balance they all crave is so easily available in games specifically designed for PvP.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Beaunidle

[warultima]

Wasn't this thread about fresh 50's? Not BM vs WH, more like recruit vs WH.

 

Exactly. I have 2 toons that hit 50 AFTER 1.2 hit and both started PvPing vs WH people in recruits.

I (again thats me) didnt have any issue fighting WH people, I win some I lose some and took me very little time compare to pre-1.2 when I geared up my main.

 

Like many other posters said, I think even if you got fully augmented WH gear you will probably still get steamrolled by most people with lesser gear than you do. BUT I am not saying you have no skill. I made the assumption simply based on the competent PvPers I know never complained about recruit and are thankful its in game and can be brought as soon as turning 50.

 

But then again, you dont think skill matters in game... so I guess when you lose with better gear (and you are going to) it must be because...

1. They have better gear (which is not the case so go to 2)

2. They play an OPed class (if this happens to be same class as your own then go to 3)

3. They must hack and use cheat programs.

[warultima]

This type of discussion is exactly why I don't understand the appeal of PvP in MMO games.

 

In MMO's PvP is hugely affected by gear which can override the skill levels of the players to a significant extent.

 

For level playing field PvP so it's all down to skill, twitch reactions and ability (none of which I have) there are a huge number of combat games with multiple classes, dozens if not hundreds of maps, different objectives and cooperative play.

I genuinely don't understand why the PvP players don't avoid MMO's and play these types of games instead. MMO's are all PvE with a bit of PvP bolted on, the end result being constant whinefests about PvP imbalance when the balance they all crave is so easily available in games specifically designed for PvP.

 

Not necessary true as I enjoy wrecking people in superior gear especially those who play the same class that also outgears me. SWTOR PvP gear power difference is so small compare to most other MMO anyways.

 

Same reason why when I play CS I like to go Dual Berettas vs DEagles or Mac10 vs M4A1 "on purpose" or even better SHANK SHANK SHANK.

Edited May 29, 2012 by warultima

[Kanana]

As long as they don't even out stats and get rid of the PvE "gear should matter, grind should matter" mentality, pvp will always suck past 50 in TOR. And less and less new players will enter pvp.

[Razdek]

You have no skill.

 

i found this tripe comment amusing. How can you even know my skill level? I have been playing mmo's for years and just desire a different way of playing... Something more involved that actualy REQUIRES skill to play instead of hiding behind stats and 'length of time played' to win.

 

Besides the whole point of this topic wa initially tha its not fun to have to grind through being facerolled just to reach the same lcl playing field via the gear grind. Therefore why bother. It makes pvp much less enticing for fresh 50s therefore they will avoid it. It is not competative when others have a massive advantage and pvp is supposted to be a competetion between players and thei abilities.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Razdek

[thomasgallant]

You have no skill.

 

i found this tripe comment amusing. How can you even know my skill level? I have been playing mmo's for years and just desire a different way of playing... Something more involved that actualy REQUIRES skill to play instead of hiding behind stats and 'length of time played' to win.

 

Telling someone they have no skill when you dont even know how good they actually are is just 'putting the *** before u and me' in assume. Its a rookie troll mistake buddy, but good try.

 

sadly if you are looking for something new and more involved you should know now that mmos are not going to be it, for a very long time..

[Yeochins]

You have no skill.

 

i found this tripe comment amusing. How can you even know my skill level? I have been playing mmo's for years and just desire a different way of playing... Something more involved that actualy REQUIRES skill to play instead of hiding behind stats and 'length of time played' to win.

 

Telling someone they have no skill when you dont even know how good they actually are is just 'putting the *** before u and me' in assume. Its a rookie troll mistake buddy, but good try.

 

You have none, not at this game.

 

Its like saying Starcraft 2 makes you better at Diablo 3. Get over yourself. The sooner you realize your nobody and nothing at a new game the easier it will be for you to learn and adapt.

 

People are experts at THIS game. Being an expert at ANOTHER game doesn't make you anymore skilled than the person who hasn't played any game ever.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Yeochins

[ScrabblePants]

I don't pvp often, hardly ever in fact, but when i do, i expect to die.

I just make the biggest nuisance i can of myself on the way down - killing people doesn't always win the fight!

All WZ's are objective based so concentrating on whether you are killing people or not is a distarction. Keep them off the objective and allow you team to keep control.

Although, as the WZ's are small scale fights, there is more reliance on each player. 12.5% of your team being a 'nuisance' is a big hit to take, hence why i don't pvp often. I am a fan of the large scale warfare from the good old days of DAoC or even wintergrasp to a certain extent where there is less reliance on individuals and even the cannon fodder like me have their part to play.

[Razdek]

sadly if you are looking for something new and more involved you should know now that mmos are not going to be it, for a very long time..

 

As i mentioned before, you should check out te secret world (not here to endorse the game but i was intrigued with their ideas). They are trying very hard to be innovative in both pve and pvp with no set classes, billions of potential skill sets that can be changed on the fly, and it relies on the skills of the player to succeed. Now i am not saying bioware has to drop everything and be just like this game... Far from it... But there are other ways to do things in pvp tha take out the faceroll in pvp and create a level playing field.

[Razdek]

You have none, not at this game.

 

Its like saying Starcraft 2 makes you better at Diablo 3. Get over yourself. The sooner you realize your nobody and nothing at a new game the easier it will be for you to learn and adapt.

 

People are experts at THIS game. Being an expert at ANOTHER game doesn't make you anymore skilled than the person who hasn't played any game ever.

 

Again making the assumption that i havnt pvped in this game. I pvped while leveling and it was a very fun and enjoyable experience that wasnt focused on how much gea you had, but on how well you played. The only thing that seperates lvl 50 pvp from pre 50 is the gear... Its exactly the same game, same arenas, same skills, same classes...

[Styxx]

sadly if you are looking for something new and more involved you should know now that mmos are not going to be it, for a very long time..

 

As i mentioned before, you should check out te secret world (not here to endorse the game but i was intrigued with their ideas). They are trying very hard to be innovative in both pve and pvp with no set classes, billions of potential skill sets that can be changed on the fly, and it relies on the skills of the player to succeed. Now i am not saying bioware has to drop everything and be just like this game... Far from it... But there are other ways to do things in pvp tha take out the faceroll in pvp and create a level playing field.

 

Good. Then this game is not for you.. sayonara.

 

You don`t have what it takes to PvP for more than 3 days anyway.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Styxx

[kitsinni]

This type of discussion is exactly why I don't understand the appeal of PvP in MMO games.

 

In MMO's PvP is hugely affected by gear which can override the skill levels of the players to a significant extent.

 

For level playing field PvP so it's all down to skill, twitch reactions and ability (none of which I have) there are a huge number of combat games with multiple classes, dozens if not hundreds of maps, different objectives and cooperative play.

I genuinely don't understand why the PvP players don't avoid MMO's and play these types of games instead. MMO's are all PvE with a bit of PvP bolted on, the end result being constant whinefests about PvP imbalance when the balance they all crave is so easily available in games specifically designed for PvP.

 

There is basically no part of any MMOs (aside from GW that ignore the majority of MMO features) where gear doesn't dictate every single part of the entire game in PvE and PvP. I guess I don't understand how people will farm gear for months and months in PvE but putting a week in to getting PvP gear is just absurd.

[Nyla]

sadly if you are looking for something new and more involved you should know now that mmos are not going to be it, for a very long time..

 

As i mentioned before, you should check out te secret world (not here to endorse the game but i was intrigued with their ideas). They are trying very hard to be innovative in both pve and pvp with no set classes, billions of potential skill sets that can be changed on the fly, and it relies on the skills of the player to succeed. Now i am not saying bioware has to drop everything and be just like this game... Far from it... But there are other ways to do things in pvp tha take out the faceroll in pvp and create a level playing field.

 

Good thing you don't endorse TSW because if you want an even play field, that's not the right game. Some decks will be better than others, either because Funcom designed it that way or because they overlooked some combinations and players found a way to push things further. The rookie, starting to PvP, will not know about this and will be facerolled there also.

 

Even, every game that lets players customize their gear/skills/stats is not an even playfield. There's always combinations that are better than the others. Really, if you want equal chances, play a game in which every character is the same and even then server latency, gaming gear, ... will make a difference.

[Styxx]

Again making the assumption that i havnt pvped in this game. I pvped while leveling and it was a very fun and enjoyable experience that wasnt focused on how much gea you had, but on how well you played. The only thing that seperates lvl 50 pvp from pre 50 is the gear... Its exactly the same game, same arenas, same skills, same classes...

 

Wrong. It is focused on how many skills you have. A lvl 49 WILL eat a lvl 10 alive, hp boost or not. And you`re fighting scrubs anyway, or sub-par players.

 

Yes, level 50 is where the fun is... fighting that guy that dinged 5 days after launch and it`s doing PvP since, not some fresh lvl 10 running in circles `cos it`s fun.

 

Earn your gear and your skill.. or don`t PvP. Or go and play that "skill" game you spoke of earlier.

[Razdek]

There is basically no part of any MMOs (aside from GW that ignore the majority of MMO features) where gear doesn't dictate every single part of the entire game in PvE and PvP. I guess I don't understand how people will farm gear for months and months in PvE but putting a week in to getting PvP gear is just absurd.

 

I would love a game where gear is purely cosmetic for both pvp and pve... Stats just seem redundent in my mind. Personal opinion and i cant speak for everyone. If i raid id like to be doing it for fun... Not the gear grind. The same goes for pvp.

[Razdek]

Wrong. It is focused on how many skills you have. A lvl 49 WILL eat a lvl 10 alive, hp boost or not. And you`re fighting scrubs anyway, or sub-par players.

 

Yes, level 50 is where the fun is... fighting that guy that dinged 5 days after launch and it`s doing PvP since, not some fresh lvl 10 running in circles `cos it`s fun.

 

Earn your gear and your skill.. or don`t PvP. Or go and play that "skill" game you spoke of earlier.

 

The only thing tou got right was that a lvl 49 would beat a level 10... Which is why pvp needs to be broken up into tiers instead of a cluster of lvls like it is... But with no xserver pvp we are left with what we have while lvling.

[kitsinni]

I would love a game where gear is purely cosmetic for both pvp and pve... Stats just seem redundent in my mind. Personal opinion and i cant speak for everyone. If i raid id like to be doing it for fun... Not the gear grind. The same goes for pvp.

 

You would probably like Guild Wars, at least the first one have not kept up on the second. The entire point of these MMOs has become gear grinds (WoW, SWTOR, AION, RIFT etc). There are a few designed where gear isn't supposed to matter but they play very differently than this.

 

Basically the these type of MMOs can be broken down to: Level a character to max level > Get gear set A so you can fight in place B > get gear set B so you can fight in place C > get gear set C so you can fight in place D etc. Eventually you max out the gear grind and play an alt or wait for an Xpac. I know it is a pretty silly model.

[Smuglebunny]

As a lvl 11 gunslinger in pvp I was wrecking everyone. My VERY FIRST warzone ever played on the GS I got 150k damage and killed a number of higher lvls. Cuz charged burst, aimed shot, thermo grenade and sabo charge were all I needed. But usually lowbies do lose cuz of not having enough skills yet. And as a fresh 50 Sentinel I had not that much of a problem as soon as I had full recruit and 2 BM pieces.

[PalihoJ]

Basically the these type of MMOs can be broken down to: Level a character to max level > Get gear set A so you can fight in place B > get gear set B so you can fight in place C > get gear set C so you can fight in place D etc. Eventually you max out the gear grind and play an alt or wait for an Xpac. I know it is a pretty silly model.

 

Very good point well made, now remind me why I pay a monthly sub for this

 

Basically some people will always find an excuse for getting ganked in PvP, I blame my slow PC....but in reality I know I could have a super computer and still be no better than average.

As has already been posted.....death is part of PvP and if you are not 'the best of the best of the best' you need to accept it.

[BraaxusKun]

There should be 3 slots on each piece of armor which you can fill with stats made by crafters so there are hundreds of variations not just a few sets of pvp gear.

[kuey]

@ OP. I totally understand where you're coming from. As someone who started PvP before we had the recruit gear I'll say this much, the beat down is nowhere near as bad now as it was before. Whilst they've headed in the right direction with recruit gear, the game is still leaning more towards "Character vs Character" rather than "Player vs Player." Whilst player skill is a factor, it's not something that cannot be overcome with your character. For a Recruit toon to beat a WH toon the skill level must be of a significant difference, not impossible, but almost.

 

Also do yourself a favour and ignore the kids whining about how they got beaten so now you gotta get beaten. It's a similar concept to someone saying "I have the right to beat my child within an inch of his life because I had to endure it when I was one."

 

Edit: Fixed a typo that made no sense whatsoever.

Edited May 29, 2012 by kuey