Mara/Sent Damage fine/Ops Evasion and Vanish broken

[LiveandDieinLA]

30 m isnt ranged?? ROFL I guess its melee then.

 

FFS your ability cancels out attacks that are classified as ranged attacks, such as railshot, snipe, and saberthrow. Just because an attack can be executed from range doesnt mean that attack is classified as a ranged attack.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Your in denial that ur class is nonsense right now.

 

Your in denial that you don't need to L2P.

[TriviumIsGOAT]

FFS your ability cancels out attacks that are classified as ranged attacks, such as railshot, snipe, and saberthrow. Just because an attack can be executed from range doesnt mean that attack is classified as a ranged attack.

 

Either way I still get pulled out of vanish because of casted abilites, which should not be the case.

Edited May 28, 2012 by TriviumIsGOAT

[LiveandDieinLA]

Either way I still get pulled out of vanish because of casted abilites, which should not be the case.

 

re roll a shadow. Their cd gives them 100% tech and force immunity instead of 100% melee and ranged immunity.

[TriviumIsGOAT]

Thats bogus as well, it should be 100% from everything. I roll with 2 shadows they say the same thing, you shouldnt get pulled out of vanish because someone started their cast. Edited May 28, 2012 by TriviumIsGOAT

[Achyllis]

Ok its pretty obvious that you don't understand this game OP.

 

Mara stealth does last 4 seconds, and doesnt remove you from combat, so there is no "healing yourself up". Also UR lasts 5 seconds, not 10.

 

Dodge grants 100% parry against Melee and Ranged attacks. Force lightning and shock are not ranged attacks, they are force attacks. Tech attacks will also go through dodge.

 

I find it utterly amazing that people come and make nerf threads when they dont even know what their own classes abilities do.

 

L2P

 

Spin and avoidance ignored.

 

Force Camo is an agro dump on a 45 second CD. Comparing it against other dps AC agro dumps it is absurdly OP for PvP.

 

Of course you need an agro dump for PvE. Nobody does for PvP.

 

Just turn them all off in PvP or alter Force Camo to remove all benefits beyond the typical "drastically reduces agro" that every other dps AC gets with their agro dump.

[Nyaara]

Force Camo is an agro dump on a 45 second CD. Comparing it against other dps AC agro dumps it is absurdly OP for PvP..

 

Yep, is an agro dump but BW, as Marauder is a melee class, maybe thought putting a vanish thing, damage reduction and speed boost on it to avoid bosses cleaves, areas etcetc. Just making dps melees stronger in pve fight where ranged dpsers dont get that kind of issues.

 

But they failed in PvP clearly. Imo, is not working on intended in PvP situations.

[Darthshnooky]

Right yeah i dont know what im talking about when I witness it every match,.

 

You don't know what you're talking about because you have been shown up, repeatedly, in this thread. Your numbers have been wrong, your understanding of how attacks and damage types are categorized has been wrong, and you have generally looked like an uninformed whiner complaining about nerfs over issues you do not fully understand. So just back away and learn about the classes and game a bit more before starting another thread. Thanks!

[criminalheretic]

Don't forget about 15 sec aoe stun, mass root without cd, numerous mass heals that heals from 10% to 100% almost instantly and of course several ways to remove stun from himself!

 

I read this and I don't even know if it's real or sarcasm...

 

They have a 6 second AOE Mez, that IS on CD.

 

No mass root, unless you are counting the previously mentioned AOE mez, that breaks on damage. You can't count the same ability 2x and call it 2 abilities. Even if you are wrong both times.

 

"numerous mass heals that heals from 10% to 100% almost instantly" I won't even dignify this with a response.

 

And 1 way to remove stuns, like every other class, or a 2nd if they are specd for it, which would remove the healing.

 

You are actually hurting your own cause with posts like this.

[Ahhmyface]

Ignoring the torrent of misinformation propagated by the OP...

 

marauder steath is actually significantly better than other stealth. Speed boost, damage reduction, and doesn't pop from aoe/dot damage, lower CD. Oh, and not detectable. Shadow/op stealth is terribad and easily discovered.

 

Forget the mechanics a moment. In the end, marauder stealth does its job and the other vanishes don't.

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

I'd rather have Mara/Sent "stealth" than my Shadow's stealth/vanish.

 

The only advantage my Shadow's stealth provides is that he can sit in it for a long time. But Mara/Sents is much stronger in combat situations AND usuable 3-5x more often:

-- 45s cd (vs 2-3min vanish cd),

-- can't be knocked out of stealth by dmg (Shadows have to stack a 2nd cd for that)

-- +30% speed (Shadows have to stack a 3rd cd for that, albeit gaining +50% speed)

 

 

Why does the best DPS class also get the best combat stealth + the best other defensive CDs?

[TriviumIsGOAT]

Ignoring the torrent of misinformation propagated by the OP...

 

marauder steath is actually significantly better than other stealth. Speed boost, damage reduction, and doesn't pop from aoe/dot damage, lower CD. Oh, and not detectable. Shadow/op stealth is terribad and easily discovered.

 

Forget the mechanics a moment. In the end, marauder stealth does its job and the other vanishes don't.

The reason I thought it was mroe then 4 secs was because they completely disappear, even if u dot em they dont come back, and apparently the speed boosts gets em far enough away, because i never see em in the immediate area, then they show back up 10 plus seconds later out of fricken no where, which seemingly makes it feel like they just stealth for 10 plus seconds, I can only report what I see with my own eyes, its fricken nonsense they can just run away and stop caps without dieing, they dont even need to use there damage to do that, take away all of ther edmage and they are still OP in wz's, they could do zero damage and still be the most important class in wz's. Edited May 28, 2012 by TriviumIsGOAT

[Astarica]

Marauder vanish is far superior to than the vanish that normal classes get, and it's not even on a 3 minute cooldown.

 

I guess in theory it doesn't actually let you exit combat, but in PvP that's pretty much worthless (nobody magically forgets about your existence just because you vanished) and I really can't think of too much use for it in PvE either because aggro management really isn't that hard in PvE.

[criminalheretic]

"Ridiculous DPS, and the best defensive CDs in the game" Heard it too many times...

 

Comparing a Marauder to a Jugg, Anni/Immortal as they are both melee, because there is no way to calculate the "mitigation" offered by attacking from range. No it's not a CD. YES it is a defense. When you are attacking someone that can't hit you back, you are employing an advantage they do not have, that adds to your survival. Anyway...

 

Marauder:

 

Undying Rage - 99% mitigation for 5 seconds, 90 sec CD, can only realistically use it when you're almost dead

Cloak of Pain - 20% mitigation + some damage for 6-30 seconds, 60 sec CD

Force Cloak - Vanish + 50% mitigation (should only matter with DOTS) for 6 seconds (run away use a medpac) 45 sec CD

Plus we'll count the 1% healing on crits with Rupture

 

Juggernaut:

 

Intercede - 20% mitigation for 6 seconds + gap closer, 20 sec CD

Enraged Defense - 3% healing/sec for 10 seconds, 45 sec CD

Endure Pain - 30% health buff for 10 seconds, 90 sec CD

Invincible - 40% mitigation for 10 seconds, 180 sec CD

 

AND - Now this is what most people don't account for...

 

Soresu Form - 6% mitigation, passive/always on

Heavy armor - 6% mitigation (over medium), passive/always on

Guard stance - 6% mitigation, passive/always on

Shield Generator - stats dependent on absorption/shield/def rating etc, passive/always on

 

So before we even look at defensive CDs, Juggs are starting with an additional 18% - 40% PASSIVE damage mitigation over a Marauder. AND they get defensive CDs that protect 1/2 as well, but last 2x as long as a Marauders.

 

It is because of everything in the "AND" section, that Marauders have the best (but not by a whole lot) defensive CDs in the game.

[LiveandDieinLA]

"Ridiculous DPS, and the best defensive CDs in the game" Heard it too many times...

 

Comparing a Marauder to a Jugg, Anni/Immortal as they are both melee, because there is no way to calculate the "mitigation" offered by attacking from range. No it's not a CD. YES it is a defense. When you are attacking someone that can't hit you back, you are employing an advantage they do not have, that adds to your survival. Anyway...

 

Marauder:

 

Undying Rage - 99% mitigation for 5 seconds, 90 sec CD, can only realistically use it when you're almost dead

Cloak of Pain - 20% mitigation + some damage for 6-30 seconds, 60 sec CD

Force Cloak - Vanish + 50% mitigation (should only matter with DOTS) for 6 seconds (run away use a medpac) 45 sec CD

Plus we'll count the 1% healing on crits with Rupture

 

Juggernaut:

 

Intercede - 20% mitigation for 6 seconds + gap closer, 20 sec CD

Enraged Defense - 3% healing/sec for 10 seconds, 45 sec CD

Endure Pain - 30% health buff for 10 seconds, 90 sec CD

Invincible - 40% mitigation for 10 seconds, 180 sec CD

 

AND - Now this is what most people don't account for...

 

Soresu Form - 6% mitigation, passive/always on

Heavy armor - 6% mitigation (over medium), passive/always on

Guard stance - 6% mitigation, passive/always on

Shield Generator - stats dependent on absorption/shield/def rating etc, passive/always on

 

So before we even look at defensive CDs, Juggs are starting with an additional 18% - 40% PASSIVE damage mitigation over a Marauder. AND they get defensive CDs that protect 1/2 as well, but last 2x as long as a Marauders.

 

It is because of everything in the "AND" section, that Marauders have the best (but not by a whole lot) defensive CDs in the game.

 

You forgot that while both ACs have Saberward, Jugg saberward gives them 100% dodger for the first 2 seconds.

[ekimmak]

its longer then 4 secs, and im talking about it being better then a stealth classes actual vanish, a marauder can protect a node from 4 people simply by vanishing, hide heal up a bit, stop cap, come back pop 10 sec invincibility at 5% health, by that time he is reinforced, its ridiculous really, they have a rogues cheat death and stealth and there not even a rogue class.

 

Hey, if you look over there, you can see your credibility... no, it's gone now.

 

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Force Camo is a threat drop power, just like surrender and countermeasures. Because the devs were lazy (or weren't lazy) they gave it a bit more utility than the other powers, but it is NOT a stealth power.

It is NOT a vanish.

It lasts for 4 seconds (or 6, if you spec right).

 

About the only thing it's really good for is closing the distance on snipers, or getting some distance from a fight you can't win. You still have to wait 10 seconds without being attacked before you can rest. Are you saying that people are incompetent enough that they can't capture in 10 seconds? Or are you saying he uses a medpac? In which case he can't use it when he hits undying rage/guarded by the force, which is when I'd use my medpac. not beforehand. Just snag him with an immobilize when he hits force camo, and he'll be forced to wait out the stealth in place, open to any AoE. Unless he's the rarely seen combat spec, in which case he'll still get away, thanks to the rootbreaker on it. And Guarded by the Force is normally worn out with the use of stuns. That's, what, 10 seconds in total he's managed to survive? I suppose you want Vanish on a 45 second cooldown? You do realize that there is far greater utility in Shadow/Scoundrel stealth than Sentinel stealth? For a start, Shoot First.

[TheNotorius]

wall of text

 

Cute, but you forgot Marauder also have:

 

Obfuscate - 90% less accuracy on white attacks for 6 sec, useful against all Sniper attacks, and some attacks of Jugg / Powertech / Mercenary / Operative / Assassin.

 

Berserk: When you have it activated, you can heal for 18% of your HP, not bad at all isn't it.

 

Also, you are comparing Anni (that can do a lot of damage) with the immortal spec, that does NO damage. Also, no one use a shield in pvp, it doesn't even work properly.

 

It's one of the most biased posts I have read in this forum (well, it's full of them to be honest)

[GrumpySwe]

"Ridiculous DPS, and the best defensive CDs in the game" Heard it too many times...

 

Comparing a Marauder to a Jugg, Anni/Immortal as they are both melee, because there is no way to calculate the "mitigation" offered by attacking from range. No it's not a CD. YES it is a defense. When you are attacking someone that can't hit you back, you are employing an advantage they do not have, that adds to your survival. Anyway...

 

Marauder:

 

Undying Rage - 99% mitigation for 5 seconds, 90 sec CD, can only realistically use it when you're almost dead

Cloak of Pain - 20% mitigation + some damage for 6-30 seconds, 60 sec CD

Force Cloak - Vanish + 50% mitigation (should only matter with DOTS) for 6 seconds (run away use a medpac) 45 sec CD

Plus we'll count the 1% healing on crits with Rupture

 

Juggernaut:

 

Intercede - 20% mitigation for 6 seconds + gap closer, 20 sec CD

Enraged Defense - 3% healing/sec for 10 seconds, 45 sec CD

Endure Pain - 30% health buff for 10 seconds, 90 sec CD

Invincible - 40% mitigation for 10 seconds, 180 sec CD

 

AND - Now this is what most people don't account for...

 

Soresu Form - 6% mitigation, passive/always on

Heavy armor - 6% mitigation (over medium), passive/always on

Guard stance - 6% mitigation, passive/always on

Shield Generator - stats dependent on absorption/shield/def rating etc, passive/always on

 

So before we even look at defensive CDs, Juggs are starting with an additional 18% - 40% PASSIVE damage mitigation over a Marauder. AND they get defensive CDs that protect 1/2 as well, but last 2x as long as a Marauders.

 

It is because of everything in the "AND" section, that Marauders have the best (but not by a whole lot) defensive CDs in the game.

Im sorry but thats just complete bs just like a lot about marauders said in this thread is bs.

 

A tank specced jugg in soresu do fair damage if in dps gear but NO WHERE NEAR a marauder so yes they deserve better survivability. A dps specced in soresu gets kinda rage starved which limits dps.

 

Second Intercede is ONLY 20% to THE ONE YOU INTERCEDE TO, not to yourself. I i remember correctly the tank gear has a set bonus that adds the effect to you aswell but thats the tank gear and then you do really **** damage.

 

Shield generator, again if you use it you reduce your dps which offsets the increase in defense.

 

Last but not least, enraged defense is not free, it costs 4 rage to activate and costs rage for each tick which also require you to take damage for it to trigger.

 

So please, stop the god damn misinformation on both sides. Its just making the problem bigger.

If you wanna compare cooldowns then atleast choose a dps spec which does similar if less dps such as vengeance.

[ekimmak]

No mass root, unless you are counting the previously mentioned AOE mez, that breaks on damage. You can't count the same ability 2x and call it 2 abilities. Even if you are wrong both times.

 

They're probably thinking of leg slash. Or cyclone slash. After all, if you can't tell which, it must be both! It couldn't possibly be that the latter has no movement impediment, the former isn't a group attack, and both have horrible DPF. Clearly, marauders do both at the same time and are OP'd, NERF NAO!

 

I have very little faith there's any intelligent agruments against Force Camo. Yes, overpowered versus other aggro drops. But at the moment, I don't see how it could be fixed unless all other aggro drop powers recieved the movement impairment breaker that you normally have to spec for, and sentinel's still have to go combat for theirs.

[ekimmak]

/signed

 

Mara's stealth must have cooldown 2 min, like vanish, and break by any damage taken - aoe or dot.

 

If you put the same cooldown on Countermeasures, Surrender, Chaff Flare, whatever the commandos get...

cloud mind, whatever the sages get, all the AoE taunts...

 

Then sure. I'd support this.

[Madnutter]

I have very little faith there's any intelligent agruments against Force Camo. Yes, overpowered versus other aggro drops. But at the moment, I don't see how it could be fixed unless all other aggro drop powers recieved the movement impairment breaker that you normally have to spec for, and sentinel's still have to go combat for theirs.

 

How about change it to be like the other dps chars aggro dumps, and make it just dump aggro with a root break to spec for if you want, rather than a stealth?

Why do Maras all seem to say "It only mitigates 50% damage, it's fine" How stupid are you?.....It mitigates far more than 50%, think of all the attacks you would be receiving if you could be targeted, then come back and say it only mitigates 50%. Yes you can't do damage from your stealth, but you can be healed, so like your GBTF/UR its just another 4+seconds of being effectively unkillable.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Madnutter

[TuxedoMazoku]

Marauder/Sentinel stealth is their PVE agro dump, hence the 45 second cooldown. One of the larger problems with pvp in this game is balance changes seem to be made with pve first in mind and pvp as an afterthought.

 

With the time to kill currently in pvp I think having similar de-taunt abilities work in pvp for other classes would help things out rather than trying to take away defensive utilities in a game where currently people die way too damn fast. Never mind the lack of defensive stats affecting the way tank spec'd classes affect their guard on healers. This game needs -more- defensive abilities, not less.

 

And as someone with a sent who was in full battlemaster before the 1.2 update, their dmg -is- way too effing high now. It was amazing before, and the only thing that probably needed(still needs) a buff is the combat tree which lacks survivability and energy management in pvp. Before 1.2 a sent in pvp could top damage charts doing single target dps(far more valuable on chosent targets than splash ae dmg from classes like dps guards). With dmg values at their current lvl the class is faceroll easymode.

Edited May 28, 2012 by TuxedoMazoku

[Achyllis]

I have very little faith there's any intelligent agruments against Force Camo. Yes, overpowered versus other aggro drops.

 

You disproved your own assertion, you apparently just don't like the truth. The only intelligent argument available here is that Force Camo is absurdly OP relative to other agro drops and should be altered for competitive balance.

 

The "it's all good here" argument only works for warriors. To folks who don't want to join the glowbat waving masses it appears BW is holding your hands to make the game as easy as possible to increase subs. How's that working out for you BW?

Edited May 29, 2012 by Achyllis
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