Carnage Marauder vs Vengeance Jugg

[Trauglodyte]

I play an Operative primarily and a Sniper as my secondary toon. Throughout the story, Darth Baras' name keeps popping up so I really want to run through the Warrior story line to see what is going on. SO, with that being said, this isn't going to be a toon that I'm going to play a lot and will primarily be a one and done sort of thing.

 

First,I want everyone to know that I'm not jumping on the "glow stick" bandwagon. Secondly, I realize that Juggs and Marauders play differently and that Marauders probably have a greater DPS upside. But, I'm curious as to what people think of how they differ in terms of fun. Carnage peaked my interest way back before 1.2 but there is something about the single lightsaber/Darth Vader feel that pulls me to it.

 

I'd really like to get people's opinions on how they enjoy and see the two specs.

[GOTGK]

Marauder!

 

If you're going to play a Sith warrior, the truest representation is the dual wielding Marauder. He has no interest in protecting your life, or the lives of his fellows. He has no interest in flexibility, because flexibility is another word for uncertainty. He has no interest in a defensive gearout, because it implies the possibility of being overwhelmed.

 

You will gather as much equipment for the purposes of harm as your physical form will tolerate and when you strike your opponent, it will not be to knock him off balance. You will strike him to halve him. You will strike him before he strikes you. If he strikes you first, you will strike him harder. If his might is greater than yours, your rage will be greater than his. And when your endurance is at it's end, you will breathe bloody fire into the corpse of your enemy and your rage will heal you.

 

Screw tact.

Killem all.

Edited May 26, 2012 by GOTGK

[Vid-szhite]

Marauder!

 

If you're going to play a Sith warrior, the truest representation is the dual wielding Marauder. He has no interest in protecting your life, or the lives of his fellows. He has no interest in flexibility, because flexibility is another word for uncertainty. He has no interest in a defensive gearout, because it implies the possibility of being overwhelmed.

 

You will gather as much equipment for the purposes of harm as your physical form will tolerate and when you strike your opponent, it will not be to knock him off balance. You will strike him to halve him. You will strike him before he strikes you. If he strikes you first, you will strike him harder. If his might is greater than yours, your rage will be greater than his. And when your endurance is at it's end, you will breathe bloody fire into the corpse of your enemy and your rage will heal you.

 

Screw tact.

Killem all.

 

Juggernaut.

 

While the Marauder cluelessly believes that even his own life isn't worth protecting, the Juggernaut knows that to reap the rewards of his own ambition, he and his power base must not die in the process. Disregarding reality doesn't make the danger go away, and throwing away useful tools is not the way of a thinking Sith. Has the Marauder learned nothing from the Academy? The Juggernaut pities him for his lack of vision.

 

Flexibility is not uncertainty, it's preparation for reality. A suit of armor isn't donned out of fear, it's done out of practicality. Why deflect a blow when you can wear a suit that would make the blow do nothing? It is wasted energy better spent striking them down for their arrogance. Though the Marauder would rather foolishly believe himself to be immortal, but only a Juggernaut can truly be Immortal, and though the Marauder's power spikes, it wanes and fails him, while the Juggernaut rests assured that he will never die.

 

The Marauder is reckless and single-minded, believing that power is measured in how many lightsabers he can juggle like a clown, while the Juggernaut knows that large, crushing strikes with both hands on the hilt will do the job and more. The Juggernaut doesn't need a second lightsaber to overwhelm his foe, for he doesn't tap his victims to death, he knocks their weapon aside and cleaves them in two with a single strike. The Juggernaut is brutality incarnate, and embodies the very soul of a warrior.

 

All the cutscenes are animated with a single lightsaber.

Screw tact indeed.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[DeckerVeden]

Juggernaut.

 

While the Marauder cluelessly believes that even his own life isn't worth protecting, the Juggernaut knows that to reap the rewards of his own ambition, he and his power base must not die in the process. Disregarding reality doesn't make the danger go away, and throwing away useful tools is not the way of a thinking Sith. Has the Marauder learned nothing from the Academy? The Juggernaut pities him for his lack of vision.

 

Flexibility is not uncertainty, it's preparation for reality. A suit of armor isn't donned out of fear, it's done out of practicality. Why deflect a blow when you can wear a suit that would make the blow do nothing? It is wasted energy better spent striking them down for their arrogance. Though the Marauder would rather foolishly believe himself to be immortal, but only a Juggernaut can truly be Immortal, and though the Marauder's power spikes, it wanes and fails him, while the Juggernaut rests assured that he will never die.

 

The Marauder is reckless and single-minded, believing that power is measured in how many lightsabers he can juggle like a clown, while the Juggernaut knows that large, crushing strikes with both hands on the hilt will do the job and more. The Juggernaut doesn't need a second lightsaber to overwhelm his foe, for he doesn't tap his victims to death, he knocks their weapon aside and cleaves them in two with a single strike. The Juggernaut is brutality incarnate, and embodies the very soul of a warrior.

 

All the cutscenes are animated with a single lightsaber.

Screw tact indeed.

 

 

The force is strong in this one.

[StaticJoe]

I play an Operative primarily and a Sniper as my secondary toon. Throughout the story, Darth Baras' name keeps popping up so I really want to run through the Warrior story line to see what is going on. SO, with that being said, this isn't going to be a toon that I'm going to play a lot and will primarily be a one and done sort of thing.

 

First,I want everyone to know that I'm not jumping on the "glow stick" bandwagon. Secondly, I realize that Juggs and Marauders play differently and that Marauders probably have a greater DPS upside. But, I'm curious as to what people think of how they differ in terms of fun. Carnage peaked my interest way back before 1.2 but there is something about the single lightsaber/Darth Vader feel that pulls me to it.

 

I'd really like to get people's opinions on how they enjoy and see the two specs.

 

 

One thing to keep in mind the damage done by your offhand weapon is merely a fraction of your main hand weapon which is why I went Jugg, I also have a nice blade equipped instead of a glowbat.

 

To me, Force Leap > Ravage is a great way to start a fight, I LOVE IT! I've never played a Marauder/Sentinel so I can't speak to that style of play, but again I did go Jugg/Guardian because the offhand weapon does so little damage my thought being I would be much better served equipping the best shield I can find/buy

[JamieM]

The force is strong in this one.

 

A powerful Sith he will become!

 

The Juggernaut is the ultimate Sith Warrior. I can push 1600 dps or I can tank with over 24k health with a simple change of my armour. No contest.

Edited May 31, 2012 by JamieM

[BPWyndon]

I play Jugg, from level 1 - 50 I think I might have died 3 times. If you use Quinn, you can survive just about any fight including 2 elites of your own level (If your in soresu form). Problem is however that, and I didn't know this untill I played an Arsenal Merc, but Juggs are really slow killers, Rage spec is awesome once your got the 31 points, Vengence is quick but unless you can manage a DPS + Sorensu form survivability is low.

[zxckakel]

Interesting..

Vengeance Jugg can sustain a decent amount of dps, problem is.. Marauders have a lot of defensive abilities.

[coldserpent]

Interesting..

Vengeance Jugg can sustain a decent amount of dps, problem is.. Marauders have a lot of defensive abilities.

 

Perhaps, but a Juggernaut can shift the fulcrum of a battle in more ways. You can control the pace of the battle and "tilt" your opponents if you're Immortal spec'd, or you can deliver just as brutal in strikes if you're Vengeance or Rage.

[Adwynyth]

Marauder!

 

There's something almost holy once you get up higher about the Gore > Ravage > Scream combination.

 

And Ravage definitely looks better with 2 lightsabers.

 

Oh, and don't knock the second saber...it's a good 25+% extra damage on top of your primary, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Adwynyth

[Lysico]

Juggy

 

easier to get medals with your single and aoe taunt (plus helps the team more).

 

Force push is huge along with the free leap follow up after it.

 

I mean they are both really solid (I have them both) but I like my juggy more..

[Vodrin]

I have a combat sentinel and a vengeance jugg that are both well north of 60 valor, and both have done a fair amount of raiding. You really can't go wrong with either one as they are both a blast to play. I like the aesthetics of the jugg a bit better (the animations for a single saber just look a little better to me), but I find little difference in raw power once both are geared, and once you know how to play both. Either can be an absolute beast in PvP and PvE, so choose whichever has a better feel to you and enjoy.

[DarthPunitor]

Juggernaut.

 

While the Marauder cluelessly believes that even his own life isn't worth protecting, the Juggernaut knows that to reap the rewards of his own ambition, he and his power base must not die in the process. Disregarding reality doesn't make the danger go away, and throwing away useful tools is not the way of a thinking Sith. Has the Marauder learned nothing from the Academy? The Juggernaut pities him for his lack of vision.

 

Flexibility is not uncertainty, it's preparation for reality. A suit of armor isn't donned out of fear, it's done out of practicality. Why deflect a blow when you can wear a suit that would make the blow do nothing? It is wasted energy better spent striking them down for their arrogance. Though the Marauder would rather foolishly believe himself to be immortal, but only a Juggernaut can truly be Immortal, and though the Marauder's power spikes, it wanes and fails him, while the Juggernaut rests assured that he will never die.

 

The Marauder is reckless and single-minded, believing that power is measured in how many lightsabers he can juggle like a clown, while the Juggernaut knows that large, crushing strikes with both hands on the hilt will do the job and more. The Juggernaut doesn't need a second lightsaber to overwhelm his foe, for he doesn't tap his victims to death, he knocks their weapon aside and cleaves them in two with a single strike. The Juggernaut is brutality incarnate, and embodies the very soul of a warrior.

 

All the cutscenes are animated with a single lightsaber.

Screw tact indeed.

 

Marauder- Annihilation

 

The juggernaut is naught but a distraction, a lurking mindless beast to distract the jedi from the true threat within their midst. The Juggernaut advocates armor? Bah! The Marauder's best defense is his offense, how can one kill you if you've already killed him? The force and the marauder's will are the marauder's secondary defense, your undying rage will sustain you to viciously hack and slash the jedi into pieces, which is all they deserve. The marauder's hate fuels him, and mastery of the vicious juyo form allows him to unleash his full rage, burning down jedi masters like they are padawan.

 

The juggernaut dare speak of the academy? The marauder knows that the true enemy is the Jedi, and the marauder does all within his power to destroy them, while the juggernaut just takes the blows of his enemies, piling scars as useless trophies. The juggernaut, especially the "rage juggernauts," use "big blows" as a means of compensation. The juyo marauder leaps to his prey, viciously delivering internal damage that both melt away the resolve and health of his victims, finishing them off with a saber blow through the heart, and one through feeble mind, before leaping away to the next target of his merciless destruction.

 

To the op, carnage is fine for leveling and pve, though annihilation will be the best spec for pvp. Not sure if that's relevant to you.

[revial]

Most of these posts ignored what you asked for...

 

If you're just leveling a SW for the story, do it as a Marauder. It's faster.

[Elyx]

Both are great classes, playstyle is what is the hard choice.

 

I'm a jugg fan. heavy hard hitting blows feel very powerful. combine that with force scream and its a very powerful, visceral feel to it. Maurader is fast and flashy, but the essence of the damage feels lost IMO in all the motion. you feel ever hit you pummel your opponent with on a jugg. Once you get impale...you will know what I mean...

[Carili]

Marauder- Annihilation

 

The juggernaut is naught but a distraction, a lurking mindless beast to distract the jedi from the true threat within their midst. The Juggernaut advocates armor? Bah! The Marauder's best defense is his offense, how can one kill you if you've already killed him? The force and the marauder's will are the marauder's secondary defense, your undying rage will sustain you to viciously hack and slash the jedi into pieces, which is all they deserve. The marauder's hate fuels him, and mastery of the vicious juyo form allows him to unleash his full rage, burning down jedi masters like they are padawan.

 

The juggernaut dare speak of the academy? The marauder knows that the true enemy is the Jedi, and the marauder does all within his power to destroy them, while the juggernaut just takes the blows of his enemies, piling scars as useless trophies. The juggernaut, especially the "rage juggernauts," use "big blows" as a means of compensation. The juyo marauder leaps to his prey, viciously delivering internal damage that both melt away the resolve and health of his victims, finishing them off with a saber blow through the heart, and one through feeble mind, before leaping away to the next target of his merciless destruction.

 

To the op, carnage is fine for leveling and pve, though annihilation will be the best spec for pvp. Not sure if that's relevant to you.

 

This post makes me want to try annihilation again over my carnage spec...very well written!

[WaTeRTeKniiQUe]

my top marauder dps by spec without the use of stims or adrenals:

Annihilation: I cap at 1300 dps, I think my rotation is a lil weak

Carnage: I cap at 1400 dps

Rage: 1400 sustained dps with a burst of 1900 dps W.O. my rakata stim or adrenal

my rotation in rage is flawless. vicious slash cost almost no rage, maybe 4 of 6 are free.

I am the only mar/sen on my sever(the jekk jekk tarr) that i've seen pull off 7k smashes.

but i prefer carnage above all, the fact that there is no out running me or escaping with the whole movement impairing perks in carnage is what seals the deal for me(pvp)... though my survivablity is lower than anni but the fact that with gore you cut through tanks like clothers is funny.

I cant weight in on juggy dps just yet, my juggy is only lvl 22.

 

my toon name is Woedais... and like everyone else.... you will run from me lol ;p

Edited June 9, 2012 by WaTeRTeKniiQUe

[Spinks]

Juggernaut, because heavy armour looks awesome, and it's all about the looks for Sith.

[Pernicia]

Since most people here kinda ignored what you asked to focus on end game aspects, I'll try to answer you as best I can as someone who has a 50 of both ACs.

 

Juggernaut: Very easy to level, but a bit on the slow side. You get high passive damage reduction, a couple CDs, and decent outgoing damage. You also have a pretty simple, well flowing rotation once you into it. The worst part is 10-22ish. Without Shein Form and 3 rage from each sunder, you'll be rage starved and hitting your basic attack quite often. This part sucks, but it gets better. At 37, I opted to change specs to Immortal, which is when rage gen becomes smooth for them. Unless I did something stupid I was never in danger of dieing even using Jaesa. In terms of overall fun though, I'd have to say it was my least favorite out of the 5 I've leveled (Jugg, Marauder, Sorc, Assassin, Sniper).

 

Marauder: Harder to play than a Jugg, but extremely powerful for solo play and fast. I used Annihilation all the way, so I'll go over that instead of Carnage. You get a 6 sec interrupt, 12 sec charge that can be used in melee range, the best defensive CDs in the game, self healing from bleeds, and very high damage output. It doesn't really have an awful point like the Jugg, but you are pretty squishy early on. Instead of a flowing rotation, you have a chaotic priority system, and you have to watch your health much more closely. Overall though, this was one of my top 2 ACs in terms of fun, the other being the Assassin.

[daswookie]

I have to say that I prefer my annihilation marauder to pretty much all of my characters. The only people I really have trouble killing 1v1 in pvp are better geared annihilation marauders and watchman sentinels.

[Damhooligan]

I have to say that I prefer my annihilation marauder to pretty much all of my characters. The only people I really have trouble killing 1v1 in pvp are better geared annihilation marauders and watchman sentinels.

 

I rolled a Jugg to 50 as my first toon. It is fine for tanking or PVE but PVP they get Annihilated (pardon the bad pun). I had tried a Marauder in beta and right before live they killed it. Now they fixed it with 1.2 and I have 49 which is Carnage spec and I love it. Survivability is good but the burst damage of Carnage is immediate pressure to either run or blow defensive CD's, then when they try to run away they are yours.... and they always try to run away.

 

Overall I prefer the Mara in Carnage spec. I did try the Anni spec but the DPS was too slow and in PVP reinforcements inevitably come, so better to burst them down than hang around in a long protracted fight IMHO.

 

Carnage Marauder for me.

[zxckakel]

Perhaps, but a Juggernaut can shift the fulcrum of a battle in more ways. You can control the pace of the battle and "tilt" your opponents if you're Immortal spec'd, or you can deliver just as brutal in strikes if you're Vengeance or Rage.

 

I have a Veng Jugg and a Carnage Marau.

 

With my Carnage Marau, never had any problems against Rage Juggs but against Veng Jugg, I'm 50/50 depending on the cd of my defense abilities.

 

With Venge Jugg, never had a problem against Carnage but I get owned 6 out of 10 times by an annhi Marau.

 

A slight upperhand to Marau's because of UR, why? UR+Pots, heck even UR can turn the tides a lone as vicious throw won't even tickle a Mara in UR

[NasherUK]

God knows why they thought Marauder needed a buff in 1.2, they are pretty OP right now. Jugg still has a lot more flexability though.

[tholdrin]

I play an Operative primarily and a Sniper as my secondary toon. Throughout the story, Darth Baras' name keeps popping up so I really want to run through the Warrior story line to see what is going on. SO, with that being said, this isn't going to be a toon that I'm going to play a lot and will primarily be a one and done sort of thing.

 

First,I want everyone to know that I'm not jumping on the "glow stick" bandwagon. Secondly, I realize that Juggs and Marauders play differently and that Marauders probably have a greater DPS upside. But, I'm curious as to what people think of how they differ in terms of fun. Carnage peaked my interest way back before 1.2 but there is something about the single lightsaber/Darth Vader feel that pulls me to it.

 

I'd really like to get people's opinions on how they enjoy and see the two specs.

 

Juggernaut.

The iconic powers are enough for you to feel more like a havoc wrecking sith destroyer. By my books, the standard mob clearing feels realy powerfull and meaningfull, it perfectly fits into the role. The immersion is just too good, compared to marauder who mostly twists the sword around. Nothing beats the feeling of killing an ordinary strong mob, as juggs abilities, it almost feel too epic to be true. Charging into its face, wreck and smack some blademoves (due to single saber, they look less flashy and more epic), when you run out of cooldows use force push, jump on it again dripping rage and ager, use the most iconic CHOKE and watch him twist in your might before finaly executing him with an effective one hand saber toss (while still choking), and watch the poor sob fall lifeless to the ground.

 

Serious and surprising good job Bioware did on juggernaut immersion. I also leveled a marauder to 50, but the epic feeling was dosed in much smaller cups. Same goes for guardians - for some reason, but i might just dislike the "gentle" way the animation treats the enemy. And as a bonus, on the very rare occasions i get locked in fight with an enemy guardin in 1v1 situation... t****** really, it almost feels like playing the movie.

[TwistedTony]

idk why everyone says marauders are over powered.... Yes they do have probably the best dps in comparision to a juggernaut, but the jugs survivability more than makes up for it. I'm only a lvl 23 vengeance jug and i cut down marauders like a freakin pinata, cuz they're so damn squishy