Why do people crave open world PvP?

[Khoraji]

For me, the allure is simply to get away from the fakeness of a WZ.

 

It's hard to feel like you're actually fighting a war, when you're simply fighting for control over some worthless gulch in an infinite time loop.

 

\.

 

This pretty much sums up the Open world pvpers.

 

They want to "feel" like they are fighting a real war, AKA, RP.

 

Real pvpers dont care about RP.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Khoraji

[mikedee]

Open world pvp = Casual fun

Warzones + rankings = Competitive pvp

 

This. Go to black hole if you want world pvp and don't let the other faction do their dailys.

[Dmasterr]

I've heard multiple people say DAoC had the best pvp system in an MMO, and given what was described, I assumed that's what people meant when they say they want world pvp. Since there were three factions if one faction became too powerful, the other two could have a temp alliance to take down the bigger faction, and if a faction held XYZ, their faction had access to a special raid dungeon. So pvpers and pvers were connected in the goal of keeping that dungeon available for their faction.

 

PvP should be based on individual skill, small team performance........ not 100 vs 100 or w/e u ppl want. That just means the side with more range and/or aoe wins.

[Dmasterr]

Real pvpers dont care about RP.

 

True, actual pvp players care about competition... and a way to measure their skill with other players.

 

RP /PvE players want the opposite.

 

[Cantankerus]

"Open World PvP" is code for "I am a skilless loser who can't win straight up fights against skilled players, so I want to be able to roam around ganking newbies."

 

A wise man once wrote "I can sit here and keep my my mouth shut and let them think I am an idiot, or I can open it and remove all doubt"

 

Thanks for removing everyones doubt.

[Dmasterr]

A wise man once wrote "I can sit here and keep my my mouth shut and let them think I am an idiot, or I can open it and remove all doubt"

 

Thanks for removing everyones doubt.

 

Did you prove him wrong? or just posted an irrelevant quote in a futile attempt to sound intelligent.

[PolishRifle]

I've never been a fan of Open World PvP.

 

They will never attack somebody unless they have numbers, gear, or skill on their side.

 

As for numbers/gear, I think thats called sound tactics. Why fight a battle you can't possible win? You can't inspect skill so you never know what you're going to get in a 1v1 or even a 1v2

[Valsdad]

PvP should be based on individual skill, small team performance........ not 100 vs 100 or w/e u ppl want. That just means the side with more range and/or aoe wins.

 

Why do you speak of your opinion as though it is fact?

[Dmasterr]

As for numbers/gear, I think thats called sound tactics.

 

No, that's called unfair advantage.

 

Go tell that to ppl doing wz 5vs8.

[Dmasterr]

Why do you speak of your opinion as though it is fact?

 

Im sorry , have you never done world pvp? go take some testimonies from melee players that did Illum, while ppl were still interested in it.

 

Here, ill spare you the trouble... their most valuable ability was "buff" all operation group so that they get credit for kills.

[Khoraji]

As for numbers/gear, I think thats called sound tactics. Why fight a battle you can't possible win? You can't inspect skill so you never know what you're going to get in a 1v1 or even a 1v2

 

You sound like your in a real war. This is a game, and a game should be competitive. Just like any other game like checkers, baseball, or w/e, there are rules to make the game fair so the only thing between you and victory, is skill.

[Valsdad]

No, that's called unfair advantage.

 

Go tell that to ppl doing wz 5vs8.

 

The difference between the two concepts you're describing is that war zones limit what you can tactically do. At the end of the day, you have to do things like control 2 pieces of land for the majority of the time, in a static / rule driven box. Number disadvantages will hurt you in that regard.

 

Whereas, say you're down 5 v 8 in an open world environment; you can entice your foeman to the edge of a cliff and end his threat rather quickly and efficiently, even while being outnumbered.

[Ashivauto]

A wise man once wrote "I can sit here and keep my my mouth shut and let them think I am an idiot, or I can open it and remove all doubt"

 

Thanks for removing everyones doubt.

 

Great quote...

 

I come from swg and open world pvp had objectives... Hold the city/take the city.... It was never a gank fest... It was several players engaged in combat.... It took tactics and knowing how to play your class as well as counter the other class... There also was only 2 factions.... Every battle i was experienced in swg was much more immersive than any in swtor.... Dont get me wrong i love swtor, but u guys saying owpvp is for mon competitive pvpers is funny.... When u walk on a battlefield with over 200 players it takes skill to beat any enemy superior to you especially when a bh is hunting you....

[vimm]

Of course the conditions are not always going to be ideal, but the same goes for warzones. Spontaneous encounters in open world environments are some of the most fun PvP experiences. I thoroughly enjoy instanced PvP too, though. Thankfully, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Winning while you're outbumbered is always fun; it even happens in warzones, lol.

[Valsdad]

Im sorry , have you never done world pvp? go take some testimonies from melee players that did Illum, while ppl were still interested in it.

 

Here, ill spare you the trouble... their most valuable ability was "buff" all operation group so that they get credit for kills.

 

So, your logic is to re-enforce your opinion labeled as fact with the opinions of others?

 

I don't believe the discussion of open world pvp being more fun is strictly limited to this one game, though. When I speak of open world being more fun, my scope is more genre wide.

[wolfmith]

I honestly was hoping for system balanced world PvP where you got "orders" where to go and attack. I don't like zerg fests and I have the opinion that the number of people allowed to face each other should be restricted, there's no fun in killing or being killed in mater of seconds. Still, I joined a PvP server to get World PvP, WZ PvP I can get everywhere !

[Tremont]

"Open World PvP" is code for "I am a skilless loser who can't win straight up fights against skilled players, so I want to be able to roam around ganking newbies."

 

1. You shouldnt talk about yourself that way.

 

2. You are describing about 10% of pvpers that do open world.

[Khoraji]

Great quote...

 

I come from swg and open world pvp had objectives... Hold the city/take the city.... It was never a gank fest... It was several players engaged in combat.... It took tactics and knowing how to play your class as well as counter the other class... There also was only 2 factions.... Every battle i was experienced in swg was much more immersive than any in swtor.... Dont get me wrong i love swtor, but u guys saying owpvp is for mon competitive pvpers is funny.... When u walk on a battlefield with over 200 players it takes skill to beat any enemy superior to you especially when a bh is hunting you....

 

I think we need to define competitive. When I think of competition, i think of real life sports and games. They have rules so that both sides an equal chance of winning. Imagine if during a basketball game, one team decided to send 20 players on the court and they won, would you say they are the better team? No.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Khoraji

[Khoraji]

1. You shouldnt talk about yourself that way.

 

2. You are describing about 10% of pvpers that do open world.

 

The other 90% just want to RP being a soldier in a war.

[SinnedWill]

Open-world PvP is great for many reasons:

1.) Far more diverse tactics can be applied based on location/landscape/obstructions/etc. I.E. melees can draw ranged characters into houses for a close-quarters advantage, ranged characters can snipe from high locations that would require a melee quite some time to reach (particularly if the ranged character is sniper/gunslinger in cover), obstacles or lack of obstacles for LoS tactics, etc...

2.) Open-world PvP tends to have a greater potential for "Always-On" action - you have to wait for warzones. Also, open-world pvp doesn't have a numbers restriction (typically meaning larger-scale battles).

3.) Warzone PvP becomes stagnant/stale after everyone has played them to the point of knowing how best to dominate each one with cookie-cut tactics.

Certain classes/specs excel in certain warzones and tend to be less useful in others - environmental hazards and warzone designs (in hutt-ball and voidstar, namely) cause certain classes/specs to have more significant impact than they do in others - burst DPS and/or stealth is pretty much the way to go for novare coast and civil war for example.

In open world pvp, classes will be most effective based upon enemy class composition, numbers, and location of the fight (which can be pretty much anywhere).

Yeah, you don't get anything significant for open-world pvp, but we do it for fun - bragging rights alone are reward enough. Hell, you don't get ANYTHING for dueling, so I don't see why you don't complain about it, too.

[Khoraji]

Open-world PvP is great for many reasons:

1.) Far more diverse tactics can be applied based on location/landscape/obstructions/etc. I.E. melees can draw ranged characters into houses for a close-quarters advantage, ranged characters can snipe from high locations that would require a melee quite some time to reach (particularly if the ranged character is sniper/gunslinger in cover), obstacles or lack of obstacles for LoS tactics, etc...

2.) Open-world PvP tends to have a greater potential for "Always-On" action - you have to wait for warzones. Also, open-world pvp doesn't have a numbers restriction (typically meaning larger-scale battles).

3.) Warzone PvP becomes stagnant/stale after everyone has played them to the point of knowing how best to dominate each one with cookie-cut tactics.

Certain classes/specs excel in certain warzones and tend to be less useful in others - environmental hazards and warzone designs (in hutt-ball and voidstar, namely) cause certain classes/specs to have more significant impact than they do in others - burst DPS and/or stealth is pretty much the way to go for novare coast and civil war for example.

In open world pvp, classes will be most effective based upon enemy class composition, numbers, and location of the fight (which can be pretty much anywhere).

Yeah, you don't get anything significant for open-world pvp, but we do it for fun - bragging rights alone are reward enough. Hell, you don't get ANYTHING for dueling, so I don't see why you don't complain about it, too.

 

1 - Can be done in warzones as well

 

2 - Greater potential, but hardly ever realized. It is much easier to Q for a warzone and do other things than to go all the way to the open world pvp area only to find that its a 20 vs 5 situation.

 

3 - And that is when you introduce new tactics for the scrubs that just use what everyone else does. If the warzones are plentiful and fun, they never get stale. Look at CS 1.6 and CS:S. DE_DUST2 has been the most played map for a decade now.

[linbel]

I am not a hardcore Pvper, but I did like in SWG to run round flagged for PVP. The fun was in the unexpected fight in a city or at a spaceport. (pre-nge)

 

What else was a lot of fun was being able to declare war on a guild.

 

(post nge) There was one of these wars were there was miz of imps and rebels, well if one side managed to pull the other side into restuss it got intersting.

 

The fun part re that type of event was that everyone was flagged all of the time to the folks u had declared war on.

 

Bioware way back before launch had said that guilds could have allies and adversaries, really all that was used for was to ensure we ended up on the same server.

 

In a way that is a pity, because it would so much fun if we could choose to fight eachother any where any time.

[Smashbrother]

Open-world PvP is great for many reasons:

1.) Far more diverse tactics can be applied based on location/landscape/obstructions/etc. I.E. melees can draw ranged characters into houses for a close-quarters advantage, ranged characters can snipe from high locations that would require a melee quite some time to reach (particularly if the ranged character is sniper/gunslinger in cover), obstacles or lack of obstacles for LoS tactics, etc...

2.) Open-world PvP tends to have a greater potential for "Always-On" action - you have to wait for warzones. Also, open-world pvp doesn't have a numbers restriction (typically meaning larger-scale battles).

3.) Warzone PvP becomes stagnant/stale after everyone has played them to the point of knowing how best to dominate each one with cookie-cut tactics.

Certain classes/specs excel in certain warzones and tend to be less useful in others - environmental hazards and warzone designs (in hutt-ball and voidstar, namely) cause certain classes/specs to have more significant impact than they do in others - burst DPS and/or stealth is pretty much the way to go for novare coast and civil war for example.

In open world pvp, classes will be most effective based upon enemy class composition, numbers, and location of the fight (which can be pretty much anywhere).

Yeah, you don't get anything significant for open-world pvp, but we do it for fun - bragging rights alone are reward enough. Hell, you don't get ANYTHING for dueling, so I don't see why you don't complain about it, too.

 

1. Exists in WZs too. There are plenty of LoS stuff and high ground to use.

 

2. No numbers restriction is a problem. The side with more always wins. Winning because you have more ppl is not fun nor does it take skill. WZs can be always action if the Q pops fast enough. I play on Swiftsure so the Q times are pretty decent.

 

3. Open world pvp becomes just as stagnant if you play it long enough. If it's non obj based, then simply killing people gets hella old. If it's obj based world pvp, it'll run into the same staleness WZs will have.

 

4. Completely wrong about this last point. Every class is useful in WZs. In world pvp, melee are complete trash, and ranged dominate because of all the aoe and being able to shoot from afar.

[Hethroin]

As someone that likes OWPVP, and I don't mean camping six level 45 players at the temple on Voss, I can say that there was a period of time where I had fun here. Ilum was fun for a short while until all reason for being there was removed. I ran, or ran in, OW groups in Rift, WAR, DAoC, and vanilla WoW (you used to have to walk to portals to get into warzones).

 

The reason why I did it, was the same reason the people that ran with me did it: We wanted a challenge.

 

We ran our groups against larger groups, defended keeps against drastically higher numbers, and took objectives from double our numbers. It is fun to beat the odds, and it is also fun to lose to them as long as the fight lasts and there are casualties on either side.

 

We ran a melee centric group in WAR and fought at keeps when we needed to. We had strategies for stretching out enemies, and breaking up their forces. We had keep defenses that lasted hours, this was probably the most fun I had in gaming. No we were not the only ones there, but we knew that if had not been there the sieges would have been much shorter, and many times would have had a different outcome.

 

Having some objectives to fight over, reward or no reward, is key to OWPVP. If people wanted to OWPVP that could easily do that right now, but there are no meaningful objectives. Capping all of Ilum does nothing for you or your side.

[TheronFett]

For all its flaws, SWG eventually got open world PvP right. For the most part.

 

There needs to be attackable faction bases on each planet, or at least several planets. For the sake of argument and simple math, let's say each side has 15 total bases. These bases would be guarded by a small number of NPCs, making it difficult for small gank squads to easily overrun them. Deep within each base is a console that allows a group of players (should require at least 3) to turn the faction of said base. Think of how the consoles in the new wz work...something like that.

 

If your faction controls the most bases, everyone in your faction gets a set of perks. Maybe it's reduced vendor prices, something small, like 5%...nothing game breaking. They also get more XP while leveling and more valor in warzones, again, something small like 5%. Small rewards like these give PvPers a reason to participate.