Why do people crave open world PvP?

[Olympic]

I just think you lack imagination and prefer the feel of fighting in a box, which is perfectly reasonable. Your perception has you under the believe that it is more competitive and I don't think you can get far enough out of your own head to see anything differently.

 

No, what happened was he got ganked in WoW and never recovered.

[Swijr]

Hit the nail right on the head with that statement there.. I think most people from SWG wished that this would have sorta been swg2 .. all the great things from SWG minus the bad. With some new graphics and goodies added in. We over thought it in our minds and figured that BIOWARE was on the same page. They were simply looking to make a WoW killer or as some people say WoW clone... having never played WoW myself I can only assume. Ill say this .. if some company somewhere decides to take the good from this game and swg and squish out a new MMO with a Star Wars archetype. I will definitely play that.. Its not too late for bioware to do it but it will never happen. I dont think this is what LucasArts wanted either. Seems like half a game to be honest.

 

BW really had an amazing opportunity here. I mean, they were GUARANTEED a huge player base from the genre alone. I wonder if any of the devs even played SWG or if any of the Managers even play MMOs.

 

TORtanic....

 

 

Swijr

[skidrows]

Why I want open world pvp is simple then you can go fight when you want, you dont have to wait in a que and do what you done 100000 times before, when there is no limit how many players you have on your side or against you the battle change all the time and it makes your group more like a group, you will stay together, in WZ you have 2 doors to protect, 2guns to protect or something simulate but in open world pvp you don’t have a goal like that your goal is simple kill every enemy you see and protect your team, so a team off 16players can manage against 50players if they are good enough as a team.

[wessik]

anyone who played SWG and experienced pvp base raids knows how awesome world pvp is...

 

my favorite memory was pvp'ing for 5 straight hours trying to take down a town's 2 large bases... we didn't succeed that time, but it was so much fun...

 

[wessik]

But...they are. Have you ever seen a competitive sport where 1 team is allowed to have more people on the field?

 

baseball

Edited May 25, 2012 by wessik

[anstalt]

For me, the things that set apart open world pvp from instanced pvp *in general*

 

1) Scale - generally more people involved. The fights are bigger. They feel epic, they look epic and make me feel like I'm involved in something special.

 

2) Timescale - Basically, it can last longer. In SWG the same fight could last hours. In WAR, a keep siege could last 30mins+, fortresses a whole hour. In LotRO, we might be trying to take a keep for hours. Its long lasting, consistant fun with subtle shifts and tactics.

 

3) Settings - Instanced pvp tends to be quite small, localised settings which are very limited. World PvP just tend to be on a much larger scale with more epic settings. I'd rather fight to defend a keep, to block off a starport in the middle of a city than defend a door or stand in a hut.

 

4) Choice - Do I join a raid? Do I get a small group and roam / gank? Do I go solo and pick off stragglers? I can choose my playstyle, choose my allies, choose where to fight. I can pvp how I want to pvp, not how Bioware tells me to.

 

5) Randomness - instanced pvp is predictable, open pvp is less so. Roaming with your group and suddenly bumping in to some enemies is fun: do you fight? do you run? will you win? Dying, whilst not meaning much, means more in open world pvp than it does in instances.

 

6) Realm Pride - In instanced pvp, I can feel proud that I played well or my friends played well, or that we got lucky with pugs. In Open world pvp where everyone can get involved, success or failure has greater meaning. Assuming even numbers, I can feel proud to play republic if we consistantly beat the empire and hold the objectives. I guess this builds more on the roleplaying side of peoples psyche so not all will care.

 

 

 

Now, ofc im not blind to the problems faced by openworld pvp, generally lag, lack of focus, lack of rewards and population imbalances, but when these factors are mitigated then it becomes much better than instanced pvp. I'm also aware that player skill becomes less of an issue in large scale fights, but the onus shifts to group skill and co-ordination rather than individual talent. I'm also aware that many of the things I listed could be solved by instanced pvp.

 

For example, imagine a warzone, 50 vs 50, 2 bases (1 each), no time limit, warzone ends when one team captures the other's base, valor earnt per kill and special rewards for winning. Such a warzone *could* be epic in scale, tactics, rewards, playstyle etc. It would lack the randomness and have less realm pride but would still be awesome.

[kiwoo]

SWG did have War Zones (Called Battle Grounds) starting in 2010 and it was a maximum of 16 vs 16.

 

 

Actually the first "battlegrounds" called battlefields in SWG were implemented in 2003, Then later turned off because of bugs:( was in areas on worlds surrounded by pylons (iirc). Was one in the top north/north east of Tattooine I used to visit with guild.

 

Not a fan of open world where high levels can grief low levels as it ends up being detrimental to the game in the long run. Those kind of players are destructive to the growth of the game as new players getting continuosly killed and camped with zrero chance of retaliation drive more away than keep in the long run. SWG had it right with being to complete your build unflagged and safe and then flag when you had the chance/ability to hold your own.

 

Themeparks never make great OWPVP games, in my opinion, due to it having zero impact or change to the world in anyway. Destructible craftable constructions, controllable territory things which can give a result to the conflict only happen in sandbox MMOs.

 

Personally I would love to see "open world PvP" set in space (not on the rails combat of course^^. where ship abilities can be normalized and it based on skill, rather than gear and level. Throw in territory control with space stations, that are capturable and craftable. Plus being able to call in reinforcementss on the outnumbered side and done right it could be helluva fun thing to do.

 

Could add to that. That when the PvPers gain control of a sector, PvErs have to enter and clear the enemy station before that faction gains full control. Combining both playstyles into a form of synergy. Then crafters to repair and strengthen the stations defences.

Edited May 25, 2012 by kiwoo

[kitsinni]

The real reason people crave open world PvP is because it is another thing to complain about.

[Sporticus]

Active Open World PvP makes levelling more exciting because you actually HAVE to continuously pan your camera. Other than that, the poster a few above me that posted about Warhammer/Lotro keep seige/defense hit the nail on the head for me. Nothing much more fun than being slowly backed into a Keep Lord's room with 5-6 of us against facerolling freep players in LOTRO and managing to wipe them.

[kantnerfme]

open world means, you are in a group with friends and you get attacked by others, your guild comes to support you and they also get their allies to help, a big fight guild vs guild starts. Open world pvp includes sieges on Forts. He who controls territories is the king of the game. Other guilds unite to bring down the guild and the alliances that control a fort. SW is a concept that has wars, territories that can be captured and universe domination theme. Nothing of that is attached to the epic wars the fake trailers promised us. In reality this game is a casual pve solo mission game with some fun warzones that become old after over repeating them. The pve FP are absolute fun but it taks hours to find people and play 1. If you like playing in empty servers then it's ok i gues.

[Swijr]

anyone who played SWG and experienced pvp base raids knows how awesome world pvp is...

 

my favorite memory was pvp'ing for 5 straight hours trying to take down a town's 2 large bases... we didn't succeed that time, but it was so much fun...

 

 

QFT!!!

 

 

Swijr

[CharterMonkKent]

anyone who played SWG and experienced pvp base raids knows how awesome world pvp is...

 

my favorite memory was pvp'ing for 5 straight hours trying to take down a town's 2 large bases... we didn't succeed that time, but it was so much fun...

 

 

This.

[TUXs]

"Open World PvP" is code for "I am a skilless loser who can't win straight up fights against skilled players, so I want to be able to roam around ganking newbies."

 

Perhaps that's YOUR attitude about it, but it certainly isn't mine, nor is it how most open world PvP supporters view it. Unlike you, I like to be the outnumbered faction because that's when "I" control PvP!

 

Open World PvP is thrilling! Never knowing when you'll be jumped, never knowing what you'll find at whatever "thing" you're trying to get. Open World PvP is ALL about strategy! Spying, splitting, dividing, flanking, sneaking, deceiving, tricking...I LOVE IT!

 

Give me 10 good PvPers against a group of 20 guys with your attitude Zaodon, and we'll defeat you EVERY time! Numbers make the difference head-to-head, strategy is the ONLY thing that matters in open world PvP. Lull your opponent into making a mistake and destroying them. Get them to leave 2-3 people to defend a position because they think you're somewhere else. Get them to chase, get them to over commit, get your enemy to make the move YOU want! THAT is open world PvP! Cat and mouse! Hit and run!

[CharterMonkKent]

let's put the 'craving' this way. when you use actual battle tactics, pvp goes up the next level. SWG had this. Flanking, baiting, phalanx formations. These things actually worked in game. Not sure if the devs really knew players would get that complicated with it, but the tools were there and we ran with it.

[Krenzik]

Without all the constraints/nerfs, etc. that go into play in warzones, the so-called elite that have been detracting open world in this thread woudln't be able to find excuses for those times they lose. Also, once an open world encounter goes sour they wont' be able to ragequit and just leave like it never happened. In my view there can be no such thing as a wz hardcore in pvp.

[mrdert]

For me, the answer is pretty simple. I joined a PVP server because I want to kill, and be killed by, other players. I will try to melt your face in war zones. I will ride out to Voss and gank the lowbies. I will encourage them to seek help from their guild/ fellow pubs; and if they don't show, I'll kill them till I'm board.

 

You can call be a griefer; You can call me a ganker. You can even say I can't kill people my own level, but you aren't saying it on Vulkar Highway. Bottom line is you signed up for a pvp server. You should have expected that at some time there might be some actuall PVP.

[TUXs]

Isn't pvp supposed to be just about pvp? Find some players and kill them. Illum is still there.

 

Funny tho, as soon as the honey pot of only way to get BM gear (best pvp gear pre 1.2) disappeared from illum, so did the ppl.

 

Short version, nobody actually wants to do World pvp, but devs can force them, with promising best gear and only source to get it.

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND even then, they prefered to kill trade, than do crap world pvp.

 

What a completely baseless and moronic statement.

 

PvEers are compensated for their time with 'stuff'.

WZers are compensated for their time with 'stuff'.

MMOs are about collecting and acquiring more 'stuff'.

 

'Stuff' motivates activity.

 

It's pathetic that you'd single out only PvPers as people who shouldn't get, or don't deserve, 'stuff'. Remove 'stuff' from EV, KP and EC and see how fast those instances die. Remove the Operation missions from the little mail box and see how many people give a **edit** about them. Remove ALL incentive from ANY PvE activity and see how fast it dies as well. People like to be compensated for their time doing an activity in games. PvPers are no different.

[CharterMonkKent]

For me, the answer is pretty simple. I joined a PVP server because I want to kill, and be killed by, other players. I will try to melt your face in war zones. I will ride out to Voss and gank the lowbies. I will encourage them to seek help from their guild/ fellow pubs; and if they don't show, I'll kill them till I'm board.

 

You can call be a griefer; You can call me a ganker. You can even say I can't kill people my own level, but you aren't saying it on Vulkar Highway. Bottom line is you signed up for a pvp server. You should have expected that at some time there might be some actuall PVP.

 

I pretty much agree with you. When it's true open world pvp (no fleet to hang out on that the other faction can't get to, no wzs), it wouldn't even be called ganking. You get killed by a higher lvl (or better) player, you get your guild to help you out. Then hopefully it escalates from there, where you have two guilds fighting, then whispers get sent out 'fight at coordinates such and such'. Then before you know it you have 50 people fighting or better yet, standing there toe to wait seeing who will attack first while more people show up. WZs discourage this sort of pvp, this open world pvp.

[NasherUK]

They should have designed the world to have small choke points, similar to how warhammer did it. Where you fight for control of towns etc (the only thing warhammer did right). Which gives benefits to the entire side.

 

Illum just doesn't work. There is no room for any kind of strategy. The side with more players will always win and push the other back to their base.

 

But pvp was never SWTOR's main focus. If you want a real pvp game you need to wait for something like Planetside 2, where there is no PVE what so ever

Edited May 25, 2012 by NasherUK

[Mistress_Ivi]

SWG had it down to a 'tee' - to a point. Of course, alot of servers were subject to one faction being amazing and the other just a straggling bunch of outnumbered idiots. - with rare times the lesser number being composed of elitists, which made for interesting pvp.

 

Before Restuss, especially, pvp was spntanious. Mos Eisley especially, was funny to watch groups of people just flag randomly and boom. Suddenly it was fun. I remember chasing down a spy before experitse was added... 40 minutes of hide 'n seek, without the stress of organising anything.

 

Restuss then was added, years later... Bestine and two other cities became attack/defend pvp places for currency-rewarding pvp and pve (flagging to kill players was optional!!)... and we also had some fixed warzone-ish like system as well, which awarded different items etc.

 

Open world pvp can and will have those who camp, pick on low levels... all games have that kind of thing. The fix would be simple. Anyone who flags is buffed to level 49 against players (but kept their level against mobs, no idea how that'd work).

 

Anyways, short story - the thrills of open world pvp cannot be found in fixed locations that you can only get to by lining up and waiting. Doing the same thing over and over. World pvp has the advantage of being potentially different every time.

[prodigyqnz]

I pretty much agree with you. When it's true open world pvp (no fleet to hang out on that the other faction can't get to, no wzs), it wouldn't even be called ganking. You get killed by a higher lvl (or better) player, you get your guild to help you out. Then hopefully it escalates from there, where you have two guilds fighting, then whispers get sent out 'fight at coordinates such and such'. Then before you know it you have 50 people fighting or better yet, standing there toe to wait seeing who will attack first while more people show up. WZs discourage this sort of pvp, this open world pvp.

 

I think that is step one.. Get Rid of the Fleets and the Factional Location Lockouts. BIOWARE has done almost everything they can to keep us from fighting. Different leveling locations, half of every shared planet locked out.. 100% diffrent starting locations. No cross faction communication. This all must go. TO even begin open world.

[Criosdh]

I see a lot of mentions of open world PvP, and I don't fully understand what players want.

I know many people hated Ilum but I had some good fun there because we had a semi-balanced server.

 

But... In terms of comparing open world to WZ's:

• Open world seems to always be heavily influenced by numbers
  
• Open world seems to invlove less skill than WZ's
  
• Open world does not seem to have the basic concept of a Win/Loss or Beginning/End
  

 

I know most of you will bash Ilum, but rather than bash Ilum, can someone explain what you do in an ideal open world PvP? So, yea, I enjoyed Ilum between WZ's but felt like it was a side dish as opposed to a main course. I have watched footage of GW2 as well and don't get it, it looks like 50 V 50 with no real skill or strategy involved.

 

Because open world is more dynamic, involves more strategy, it's an arena where numbers don't mean anything if the people use strategy (think Spartans vs Persians) and it's just plain more interesting to have objectives to fight over that mean something to your realm.

[Miston]

No, what happened was he got ganked in WoW and never recovered.

 

Sadly I think they lack of desire for open world pvp by a number of players is due to owning and Xbox, and learning to pew pew from Halo Multiplayer and other console FPS. In fact, I'd be willing to bet a good % of people against open world pvp over WZ also rank Huttball as their favorite one. (Huttball is just a rip off of Halo's Griffball.) just with fire pits.

 

My first pvp experience was pre-cu SWG. At first it mad me so mad being ganked, griefed, etc. But, eventually I figured out what i needed to do to avoid the whole dying thing. lol By the end of it, I loved pvp as much as many of my enemies hated seeing me overt.

 

My issue with WZ style pvp is A. It's predictable and way too easy. B. It's too anonymous. I never really remembered any names from the opposing team due to the randomness of grouping. (that's changed now since there are just a handful of people who pvp on port nowhere now.)

A wonderful by-product of open world pvp is the community that forms naturally on the server. And let's be honest, for many of us, the community quality is what determines our patience and willingness to spend money each month, while treading water waiting on patches to fix the game.

[THEJMACC]

WZ are great for pre 50 pvp. I love the way they are set up for when leveling a guy up to 50. But at 50 they really lack. Thats when the Open world PvP should come into play. It gives guilds something to do rather than flashpoints.

 

I know it's the proverbial dead horse. But for god's sake there has to be SOME Mythic people still around somewhere, have it set up similar to DAOC. Have things to fight over and to lose/gain. Then you will have more for people to do after hitting 50. We want to take these characters out and enjoy them adter all the work and time we put into them. Not just do the same dailies over and over and then wait for a big raid.

 

I think an open world with some quest/daily/weeklys and having very powerful gear that you have to spend a lot of time exposed in an open world PvP area would be a great way to entice people to enter the open world.

[Miston]

anyone who played SWG and experienced pvp base raids knows how awesome world pvp is...

 

my favorite memory was pvp'ing for 5 straight hours trying to take down a town's 2 large bases... we didn't succeed that time, but it was so much fun...

 

 

I loved going to enemy cities, and chat up the guild who lived there, while I'm chilling in their guildleader's throne. lol Ah I miss PIT and harassing Carkoon City.

 

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af243/miston1/swg/pitvisit.jpg