Layoffs at Bioware What does this mean for content

[Goretzu]

yeah but thats cause WAR lost 45% of its subs BEFORE the 1st month was out and then 75% by the end of month 3.

 

LotD was a HUGE flop. I mean in a PVP game their first (and only real) update was a PVE area.

 

Not to mention WAR never reached 1 million players where as SWTOR Still has 1 million subscribers. They say SWTOR needs 500k players to be profitible and 1 million to be huge success. So far they are doing good.

 

WAR needed 500k to be proftible as well. They didn't even have that many after the 1st month.

 

If you look at WAR and SWTOR they are on a very similar trajectory subs-wise (SWTOR just sold a bit more), WAR subs climbed for the first 4-5 months, but then took a nose-dive after that.

 

LOTD is exacly what I mean though, it wasn't an update, it was developed 95% before the game even when Live, the last 5% was done and it was released.

 

There is no way SWTOR currently has 1,000,000 actively played subs, it may well have 1+M total subs still, but that's a completely different thing.

 

 

What I'm saying about WAR is that EA started the developer cuts before it even went Live and never stopped, which basically resulted in WAR never getting any post launch development.

 

It's looking like they are going down the same path with SWTOR with this first wave of cuts....... an MMORPG with a tiny development team just doesn't get updates or expansions.

 

Worryingly SWTOR is looking like it's mirrioring that for WAR at the moment too.

[Kubernetic]

As always, the Doomy Gloomies and the Amateur Team Directors who know everything about the ins and outs of large development projects but don't even give you the impression that they could successfully direct a team of 2 janitorial staffers on a single carpet cleaning project are amusing, entertaining, and make me smile.

 

On a serious note, it's always sad to see layoffs occurring. And although I liked Stephen Reid and felt he brought some strong points to the game, there are always three possibilities when you replace someone:

 

1) The replacements will be worse than the originals.

2) The replacements will be on par with the originals.

3) The replacements will be better than the originals.

 

The reality of course is that it remains to be seen what happens from here. If the Doomy Gloomies are accurate, I'd wager it has much more to do with just lucking out rather than any perceptive prowess. We'll see when the next subscriber numbers are released.

 

In any event, the final chapter of this game has yet to be written. And please, LOL, give it a rest with the F2P wishes already...

[Tiaa]

I wish I could find my quote I posted long ago when I said this was

 

bound to happen. People have been getting laid off before this.

 

It's only when they MASS fire people that they report.

 

I also said the main ones destroying the game will be the ones

 

who keep their jobs. You know the ones doing all the hype.

 

Stephen Reid gets fired when he tried his hardest to damage

 

control and appease us. Typical.

 

Some of you just still don't get it.

[jarjarloves]

If you look at WAR and SWTOR they are on a very similar trajectory subs-wise (SWTOR just sold a bit more), WAR subs climbed for the first 4-5 months, but then took a nose-dive after that

 

There is no way SWTOR currently has 1,000,000 actively played subs, it may well have 1+M total subs still, but that's a completely different thing.

What I'm saying about WAR is that EA started the developer cuts before it even went Live and never stopped, which basically resulted in WAR never getting any post launch development.

 

It's looking like they are going down the same path with SWTOR with this first wave of cuts....... an MMORPG with a tiny development team just doesn't get updates or expansions.

Worryingly SWTOR is looking like it's mirrioring that for WAR at the moment too.

you still really can't compare war 2 star wars in anyway. also how do you figure they have a small development team now?

 

keep in mind star wars has already had 2 huge patches and we're coming up on yr 13 where war only had 1 at at this point. so right off the bat you can see there's a huge difference in the size of the development team

[Goretzu]

As always, the Doomy Gloomies and the Amateur Team Directors who know everything about the ins and outs of large development projects but don't even give you the impression that they could successfully direct a team of 2 janitorial staffers on a single carpet cleaning project are amusing, entertaining, and make me smile.

 

On a serious note, it's always sad to see layoffs occurring. And although I liked Stephen Reid and felt he brought some strong points to the game, there are always three possibilities when you replace someone:

 

1) The replacements will be worse than the originals.

2) The replacements will be on par with the originals.

3) The replacements will be better than the originals.

 

The reality of course is that it remains to be seen what happens from here. If the Doomy Gloomies are accurate, I'd wager it has much more to do with just lucking out rather than any perceptive prowess. We'll see when the next subscriber numbers are released.

 

In any event, the final chapter of this game has yet to be written. And please, LOL, give it a rest with the F2P wishes already...

If you've ridden the Warhammer Online EA train for a few years, it does seem like deja vu, now it's possible they are going to deliever more with less, but whilst that's an accountants dream, it rarely works out that way in reality.

[jarjarloves]

if you wanted to compare this to anything compare it to rift

[Tiaa]

if you wanted to compare this to anything compare it to rift

 

Yes.

 

Don't compare it to Warhammer.

 

You know the other MMO from EA that had mass lay offs and failed

 

to deliver. Also which shared team members with SWTOR...

 

 

Where do you people come from?

[Goretzu]

if you wanted to compare this to anything compare it to rift

 

Rift did pretty well, but the server merged quickly and I don't think they laid off staff did they?

[JeramieCrowe]

I wish I could find my quote I posted long ago when I said this was

 

bound to happen. People have been getting laid off before this.

 

It's only when they MASS fire people that they report.

 

I also said the main ones destroying the game will be the ones

 

who keep their jobs. You know the ones doing all the hype.

 

Stephen Reid gets fired when he tried his hardest to damage

 

control and appease us. Typical.

 

Some of you just still don't get it.

 

Well...except they're rehiring for the positions that they just "laid off".

[Phlem]

Since when? Name one successful MMO that laid off a bunch of real staff (not contractors) including the community manager.

 

World of Warcraft canned quite a few people after 1.1 was released and the server stability fiasco was ironed out.

[shepardcomander]

It's been 6 months with no new news of the "secret space project" I don't see these lay offs changing such non-delivery.

[samht]

Remember this

 

James Ohlen in Gamasutra, December 20th, 2011:

 

Current projections, he says, show enough success that BioWare is investing in the future and keeping the entire team of hundreds of people together.

[xxIncubixx]

this sounds like warhammer online all over again.

[jarjarloves]

this sounds like warhammer online all over again.

 

Not even close but keep on dreaming

[Artthen]

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[Manigma]

Not even close but keep on dreaming

Did you even play Warhammer Online? I played it from release and it is almost identical situation happening again. Patches promised and many features left out, too many servers with low populations and merges left too late, severe class imbalance and lack of endgame content. This is Warhammer 2.0 hell they even have some of the same dev team.

[Laurien-Wriroh]

well if you want to play SWG go play SWG..... Wait you can't.

 

Actually you can right now....

[jarjarloves]

Yes.

 

Don't compare it to Warhammer.

 

You know the other MMO from EA that had mass lay offs and failed

 

to deliver. Also which shared team members with SWTOR...

 

 

Where do you people come from?

 

Aside from them both being distrubited by EA they have very little in common

[DecanAndersen]

Guess all the haters and trolls was right after all....

 

[jarjarloves]

Did you even play Warhammer Online? I played it from release and it is almost identical situation happening again. Patches promised and many features left out, too many servers with low populations and merges left too late, severe class imbalance and lack of endgame content. This is Warhammer 2.0 hell they even have some of the same dev team.

 

Yes I beta tested it and it id nothing like this.

WAR lost 45% by the end of the free month.

Lost 75% by month 4.

First content patch came out after 4 months. Bug patches came out monthly to bi monthy and were small

War was also a PVP game

Their first content update was a PVE update

War never reached 1 million players

 

SWTOR lost 25% by the end of 1st month

15% by month 4 for a total of 40%

swtor currently has 1.3 million subscribers.

Swtor has added 2 major content patches with a third m patch coming soon.

Swtor has added bug fixes almost every week.

Star wars is a major larger up then warhammer could ever be.

 

 

Yeah there are some huge differences. Which is why this is closer to rift then war

[jarjarloves]

Guess all the haters and trolls was right after all....

 

 

Oh they are shutting down? Oh they are not ok then

[Goretzu]

Yes I beta tested it and it id nothing like this.

WAR lost 45% by the end of the free month.

Lost 75% by month 4.

First content patch came out after 4 months. Bug patches came out monthly to bi monthy and were small

War was also a PVP game

Their first content update was a PVE update

War never reached 1 million players

 

SWTOR lost 25% by the end of 1st month

15% by month 4 for a total of 40%

swtor currently has 1.3 million subscribers.

Swtor has added 2 major content patches with a third m patch coming soon.

Swtor has added bug fixes almost every week.

Star wars is a major larger up then warhammer could ever be.

 

 

Yeah there are some huge differences. Which is why this is closer to rift then war

 

You keep saying that, but WAR grew for the first 4 to 5 months, it nosedived after that, but initially it grew despite its problems.

 

SWTOR was definitely a more polished launch than WAR, but arguably WAR was a more complete game.

Both struggled with RvR in the context of engine performance, but SWTOR is much worse, but SWTOR has now completely removed all RvR. Both struggled with PvP class balance, but SWTOR has serious problems with CC in PvP.

 

So far SWTOR is getting more development though, but then that's the point of this thread, until now SWTOR had no lay offs, WAR has mass lay offs before the game even went Live.

[SgtWalt]

Well...except they're rehiring for the positions that they just "laid off".

 

Wrong'o, lol. Those position were posted 8 weeks ago and are no longer available.

[DecanAndersen]

Oh they are shutting down? Oh they are not ok then

 

No, that its not going to get better. That its only going to get worse.

This might turn out to be the most expensive game failure in history.

I hope not, i really dont hope so.

I hope someone with very very large shoes steps in and turns this table around, flips it upside down if they have too.

[Phlem]

Aside from them both being distrubited by EA they have very little in common

 

Actually they have quite a bit in common. You may want to use google or bing to compare the developers on both teams. While you're at it you can compare the developers from SWG that were around during the CU and NGE to the developers that were around from the get go.

 

Every MMO that EA has been a part of has failed miserably, so yes they are the common link and speculatively the ones actually calling the shots.