No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[SavageOpress]

You could also just add those people with good gear into your friend list, so you can start a guild with them or whisper them for any ops or hm. The lfg tool is a great way to find these people.

[Balrizangor]

I love this thread ...

 

For weeks/months people have been begging, whining and crying for a LFG tool. I have read almost every thread I ever saw on the subject and I can say that not one of them mentioned "We need a LFG tool that also does <insert here>" I just saw "We need a LFG tool now or the game will dieeeeee!@!!!". Sooooo, BW gives everyone the tool and now it is "We need the LFG tool to have blah blah blah" ....

 

They just can't do anything that will make anyone happy.

 

Next, we'll probably start seeing threads about the server transfer options and something like "But it doesn't let me blah blah blah" .... No wonder most game companies try to avoid their forum communities or not even setup official game forums (i.e. Arenanet)

[EcrirTwyLar]

I concede your point as valid, but this ability can (and has been) easily misused. When this was introduced in certain other MMO's, it caused a considerable community rift and resulted in a form of 'elitist' exclusion.

 

This is not true. I'm guessing you are talking about the gear check addon. Which is not related at all to the LFG tool. Wow's LFG tool does have a gear check built in. But the gear check isn't really visible in the random dungeon finder (If I remember correctly), it's only really visible if you go and try to select a specific dungeon, where you are locked out if you aren't geared well enough.

 

Now the Gear check addon allowed players to view a rating on other players. The only difference this made was that a player didn't have to manually inspect the player and see what gear they were wearing. Which already happens in SWTOR.

 

People need to use a little common sense. Why would you want to get into a flashpoint that you aren't geared well enough to survive in?

[EcrirTwyLar]

You could also just add those people with good gear into your friend list, so you can start a guild with them or whisper them for any ops or hm. The lfg tool is a great way to find these people.

 

I agree. This is why I want it to set me up with people on my own server. So that I can add those I like to my friends list and make a note of why I added them.

 

The biggest benefit I can see is the fact that I will be able to stay busy playing on planets while I'm in the queue for a group. So I don't have to stand around in Fleet spamming general and hoping to find enough people who want to run the same flashpoint as me.

[Evironrage]

Are you really this dense?

 

It is called taking responsibility seriously if you are hoping for certain aspects of the tool to work the way you want them to. I know, a lost art, but one that all of you in the raid need to own up to. Are you really that lazy?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Evironrage

[AeSaar]

The green gear is an issue because with oranges you got thru leveling and doing dailies you have access to better gear to get your columi the problem is people don't like to put in effort.

---

sry wrong Quote. I was responding to this one.

 

"Originally Posted by Seraphynn View Post

This is why I am avoiding 50+ content... Not everyone knows what they should and shouldn't have. I would hate to queue for ages for a HM FP and get turned away because my gear was not up to the elitist standards. I would love to do FP's and HM but I have not done barely any and I have played since beta.

 

The highest FP I have done is colicoid war games. I wish it was different I would like to experience the whole game but people like this put me off..

 

You have to remember there are a lot of people like myself who have never played an MMO before and are on a steep learning curve with a lot of things. To just exclude someone because they do not reach you level of expectation will make players feel they are not worthy and it will push more away from the game. Instead give a helping hand and advice... People complain about the community.. when they act like elitist snobs sitting on their pedal stool's looking down at us mere mortals in judgement. "

-----

 

 

In order to be geared properly for HM FPs, you need to a full orange set of gear with each open slot filled by a purple mod earned from doing the dailies on Illum, Belsavis, and Corellia.

 

With those you can enter both Hard Mode Flashpoints and Story Mode EV/ KP. From those you gain your Columni. Once you get your full Columni you can start attempting Hard Mode EV/ KP.

Edited May 23, 2012 by AeSaar

[Mystyfan]

People need to use a little common sense. Why would you want to get into a flashpoint that you aren't geared well enough to survive in?

 

But.. you are using logic, and also... They could also get a carebear to carry them through.

[Imadian]

What I want to know is: Why or when did gaming become SERIOUS BUSINESS? Does anyone play for FUN anymore?

[DarthTHC]

What I want to know is: Why or when did gaming become SERIOUS BUSINESS? Does anyone play for FUN anymore?

 

I absolutely play for fun! But...

 

I don't know what role you play in groups, but I assure you it's absolutely not fun to get woefully undergeared tank in a group when you're the healer. Not only can they not keep aggro off you and the DPS when clearing trash, but they also can't survive the tougher boss fights. Stats drive that, sometimes more than skill does, and stats come from gear.

[Imadian]

I absolutely play for fun! But...

 

I don't know what role you play in groups, but I assure you it's absolutely not fun to get woefully undergeared tank in a group when you're the healer. Not only can they not keep aggro off you and the DPS when clearing trash, but they also can't survive the tougher boss fights. Stats drive that, sometimes more than skill does, and stats come from gear.

 

okay, I totally understand that... but some of these guys are WAY too extreme about "gear-score." They get so bad that you feel like you're working at a sweat-shop.

[Temad]

Then why the need for a gear-score? If a horse's backside can gear itself up, what does gear prove?

 

I see what you did there.

 

It's called 'Painting yourself into a corner' btw.

 

 

It proves that you have the minimum amount of gear to finish the raid/op you entered into queue for. Why should other people be subjected to wasting an hour or more of their time when you get to that point in the raid that your gear, not your play skill, but your gear prevent you from going further?

 

This is not a player thing, it is a content thing. Your gear can really 100% prevent you and therefor your group from finishing a raid/op.

 

You can tell the people who have not run end game content in any modern MMO by their comments concerning minimum content driven statistics.

[Ganrax]

okay, I totally understand that... but some of these guys are WAY too extreme about "gear-score." They get so bad that you feel like you're working at a sweat-shop.

 

This didn't become a discussion about gear score until people that can't read thought the OP was talking about gear score and got their panties in a bunch. This was a discussion about the LFG Tool not having a built in Gear Check(set by the developers that players can't even see except for the player queuing) that will check to see if the player has the minimum requirement of gear to queue for the Flashpoint/Operation and prevent them from queuing if they don't. That had nothing to do with elitists vs non elitists or anything of the sort, it is simply about making sure people are geared enough to queue for what they are queuing for so they aren't wasting people's time(like a fresh level 50 player in nothing but green quest gear queuing for HM Lost Island). Without it you'll see the same methods we use now, players will set the minimum requirements(usually higher than the actual minimal requirements because most people want smooth runs), inspect the players that are queued with them and kick/drop group accordingly if they aren't geared enough.

[DarthTHC]

You're wrong.. It is by me.. The discussion is correct. In order to be able to beat the content of the new dungeons a specific level of gear is required by the game.

 

I heal.. I heal very well thank you. But I'm not going to try and heal someone in greens in that content. If it doesn't have a gear check, it had better have free kicks.

 

That's not elitist. It's realist.

 

The simple fact is we are talking about gear-gated content. Hardmode flashpoints and storymode ops. You need the stats as tank to hold aggro and survive. You need the stats as a healer to keep up with the incoming damage. You need the stats as a DPS to kill the bosses before the enrage timers. All the skill in the world will not help you if you don't have the stats on the gear to back it up.

 

If you disagree with this statement, please share the number of times you have completed EV story mode in your reply.

Edited May 23, 2012 by DarthTHC

[JWillets]

I don't like the possible negative outcomes of this being included but it does make sense. I wanted to do Lost Island Hard Mode (i'm quite geared for it) and was invited into a crew of fresh 50's with all pvp recruit gear on. There wasn't a chance in hell that we would've even gotten the first shaclaw miniboss down to 80% health without wiping, let alone have a chance at completing it. Or when i did EV HM with a fresh 50 healer with columi bracers and boots, with some orange gear with green/blue/purp mods in it and a green level 33 implant, the other geared healer was so overburdened with picking up the slack that we couldn't down Soa. It's not a matter of "if you're not wearing the hip cool kid clothes you can't play with us" mentality but more the, if you're not prepared, you're going to die and everyone's gonna get angry. This stuff does happen and I don't enjoy getting my clock cleaned repeatedly because of a weak link, if everybody enjoyed facing the same enemy over and over again for hours with no hope of killing it, everyone might as well fly to Ilum when you first get your ship and try grouping up with someone doing Poisonous Strategy. But no, I like loot and I like winning.

[Colow_Leper]

Please go back to wow. That elitest attitude is not welcome here.

 

/agree

 

Please please - go play a panda.

 

And, in fact, I now make a serious announcement - I quit! That's it, had enough - of the forums.

 

When I first started in the forums it was "what I am looking forward to" - now that the game is live I thought (silly me) that there would be constructive "how do I fix this problem" threads - or, maybe, "how can I improve" threads.

 

I'm off back to play the game that I enjoy. The one that I play with (almost) no problems in getting a group - the one that has no connection problems (except when my own ISP or my own downloads get involved) - the one where I have NO graphic errors (now that I have updated my drivers) - the one where the LEAST FPS that I get is 30 (ie better than an action film in the cinema) and leave the sad trolls to their fun on here.

 

Why? why, if you hate this game so much do you even bother to post on here? Do you really think that you'll change my mind? "oh, random bloke that I've never met and who lives half way around the world from me, doesn't like the game - so I *must* believe him!" ..... um - nope.

 

If your system has a problem with the game, then please fix your system - if your server is a bit light on population, and you *really* can't wait until server transfers/mergers are in place, then drop out for a couple of months.

 

If you really don't like the game, then play something else!

[SavageOpress]

/agree

 

Please please - go play a panda.

 

And, in fact, I now make a serious announcement - I quit! That's it, had enough - of the forums.

 

When I first started in the forums it was "what I am looking forward to" - now that the game is live I thought (silly me) that there would be constructive "how do I fix this problem" threads - or, maybe, "how can I improve" threads.

 

I'm off back to play the game that I enjoy. The one that I play with (almost) no problems in getting a group - the one that has no connection problems (except when my own ISP or my own downloads get involved) - the one where I have NO graphic errors (now that I have updated my drivers) - the one where the LEAST FPS that I get is 30 (ie better than an action film in the cinema) and leave the sad trolls to their fun on here.

 

Why? why, if you hate this game so much do you even bother to post on here? Do you really think that you'll change my mind? "oh, random bloke that I've never met and who lives half way around the world from me, doesn't like the game - so I *must* believe him!" ..... um - nope.

 

If your system has a problem with the game, then please fix your system - if your server is a bit light on population, and you *really* can't wait until server transfers/mergers are in place, then drop out for a couple of months.

 

If you really don't like the game, then play something else!

 

I totally agree with you!

[Ganrax]

I don't like the possible negative outcomes of this being included but it does make sense. I wanted to do Lost Island Hard Mode (i'm quite geared for it) and was invited into a crew of fresh 50's with all pvp recruit gear on. There wasn't a chance in hell that we would've even gotten the first shaclaw miniboss down to 80% health without wiping, let alone have a chance at completing it. Or when i did EV HM with a fresh 50 healer with columi bracers and boots, with some orange gear with green/blue/purp mods in it and a green level 33 implant, the other geared healer was so overburdened with picking up the slack that we couldn't down Soa. It's not a matter of "if you're not wearing the hip cool kid clothes you can't play with us" mentality but more the, if you're not prepared, you're going to die and everyone's gonna get angry. This stuff does happen and I don't enjoy getting my clock cleaned repeatedly because of a weak link, if everybody enjoyed facing the same enemy over and over again for hours with no hope of killing it, everyone might as well fly to Ilum when you first get your ship and try grouping up with someone doing Poisonous Strategy. But no, I like loot and I like winning.

 

I agree with you but I really don't see any possible negative outcomes by this system. The worst that can happen is someone that is under geared tries to queue for a Hard Mode Denova and the LFG Tool stops him because of his gear. He can throw a fit about how he's entitled to do whatever content he wants, even at the expense of his group not being able to kill anything because of him, or he can realize that he needs to follow the same path everyone else did and get the right gear first to get up to that point. I think most people are going to go with the latter.

[Ganrax]

/agree

 

Please please - go play a panda.

 

And, in fact, I now make a serious announcement - I quit! That's it, had enough - of the forums.

 

When I first started in the forums it was "what I am looking forward to" - now that the game is live I thought (silly me) that there would be constructive "how do I fix this problem" threads - or, maybe, "how can I improve" threads.

 

I'm off back to play the game that I enjoy. The one that I play with (almost) no problems in getting a group - the one that has no connection problems (except when my own ISP or my own downloads get involved) - the one where I have NO graphic errors (now that I have updated my drivers) - the one where the LEAST FPS that I get is 30 (ie better than an action film in the cinema) and leave the sad trolls to their fun on here.

 

Why? why, if you hate this game so much do you even bother to post on here? Do you really think that you'll change my mind? "oh, random bloke that I've never met and who lives half way around the world from me, doesn't like the game - so I *must* believe him!" ..... um - nope.

 

If your system has a problem with the game, then please fix your system - if your server is a bit light on population, and you *really* can't wait until server transfers/mergers are in place, then drop out for a couple of months.

 

If you really don't like the game, then play something else!

 

Are we even reading the same post? Where did the OP ever say in his post that he hates the game? He noticed that there is a key feature(that is a standard feature in the LFG Tool in other games for a reason) missing from the LFG Tool by what he saw in the video. It's plain and simple, the endgame content in this game is gear gated by design and the LFG Tool doesn't reflect that so it will cause problems for players that don't know the gear requirements. By adding a simple gear check to the tool that checks the player's gear in question before they can queue you are avoiding any problems that may happen if they join a group doing an instance that they are under geared for.

 

As long as Bioware knows their own minimum gear requirements for their Hardmodes and Operations then this will actually help prevent elitism because the only players that will be complaining about people's gear if this was implemented are the idiots that expect people to be in full Rakata gear to run a simple Tier 1 Hardmode. We are talking about the MINIMUM requirements to run the instance effectively, not the ideal gear requirements to run the instance quickly without any problems at all.

[Kiaxn]

The pictures Bioware released of the LFG tool didn't seem to include a gear check of any kind. What is preventing a level 50 in all green gear from queuing up for Devona or HM Lost Island?

 

The last thing we need is spending an hour in a queue for a group only to get stuck in a group that doesn't even have the gear required to complete it and having to start over.

 

A gear check is very important or you will have many frustrated and annoyed players.

 

Clarification: I want a built in feature incorporated into the LFG tool that restricts what you can queue for based on level and gear rating. I do NOT want the restrictions players generated (like they CURRENTLY are in the game). Since the devs have created a gear gated game (enrage timers, tiered content, etc...) then it is obvious to me that they need a way to enforce such gating, which the preview of the LFG tool failed to show.

 

Clarification 2: THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GEAR SCORE. IF YOU THINK IT DOES PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS NEEDED TO CLEAR AN INSTANCE, DETERMINED BY DEVELOERS, NOT PLAYERS.

 

Now your just getting lazy =(

[Sasheria]

How about a hidden gear score?

 

example: (Note: this is just an example. The gear requirement can varies and must be WORN at time of sign up not just OWN)

before 50, if you have an instance/FP that you unlock, you can run it.

Once you hit 50, there are "hidden gear score" that require to do certain things.

To run Ops Story Mode - might need level 48+ gear at least

To run Ops Hard mode - will need at least 5 columi gear

to run Ops Nightmare mode - will need at least 5 Rakata pieces

[Crazy_Person]

It is going to be a hard balance to find...

 

On one hand I completly understand how frustrating it is when I am trying to complete a piece of content and someone else is telling me "Don't tell me how to play." Not everyone puts it that way, most are more respectful (sense that is how I try to approach it), some are much less.

 

Adding a minimum, ie item levles close to the better stuff (Blue or orange for 5 mans, unless the stuff before it is epic with a reasonable drop rate) you can obtain through the content below it give or take 2-3 pieces. (For those people like me who ran Vanellia WOWs Baron 33 times without... the pants I was after dropped once.... then again on my 34th run when I had gotten tier 2 epics off of rag). This would just be an LFG tool lockout.. if you can find a friend who is ok with your green gear, or that item that you just can't get a drop to replace from 20 levels ago then fine go ahead...

 

Problems do arise when people start saying you must have the gear from this place to do this place with us... and the tool should not be restricting that. When I led ZG raids in WOW (20 man raid that was released after there was at least one but I thjink two 40 man raids out) I mandated that everyone have or be working on obtaining their blue class set from the puggable instances. I heard some other groups saying you must have most of your molten core set... considering the drops in MC were mostly better than the ZG ones that made no sense. (I know, there were some epics that were better, or more acessable to classes that don't primaraly use those weapons but I think the general point is valid).

 

Problem is reguardless of what tool is put in place there will always be people who inspect a new level 50 and say "your gear sucks byez noob" instdad of "Hey dude, sorry but Hard Modes were built for people who are a bit better geared... I would recomend getting groups for (flashpoint names here) to get that and maybe we can do this some other time" ... and there will always be the people who are convinced they can skip the entry level stuff... maybe with a skilled group that communicates well it is possible but I doubt many pugs will be able to pull that off.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by Crazy_Person

[Ratajack]

---

sry wrong Quote. I was responding to this one.

 

"Originally Posted by Seraphynn View Post

This is why I am avoiding 50+ content... Not everyone knows what they should and shouldn't have. I would hate to queue for ages for a HM FP and get turned away because my gear was not up to the elitist standards. I would love to do FP's and HM but I have not done barely any and I have played since beta.

 

The highest FP I have done is colicoid war games. I wish it was different I would like to experience the whole game but people like this put me off..

 

You have to remember there are a lot of people like myself who have never played an MMO before and are on a steep learning curve with a lot of things. To just exclude someone because they do not reach you level of expectation will make players feel they are not worthy and it will push more away from the game. Instead give a helping hand and advice... People complain about the community.. when they act like elitist snobs sitting on their pedal stool's looking down at us mere mortals in judgement. "

-----

 

 

In order to be geared properly for HM FPs, you need to a full orange set of gear with each open slot filled by a purple mod earned from doing the dailies on Illum, Belsavis, and Corellia.

 

With those you can enter both Hard Mode Flashpoints and Story Mode EV/ KP. From those you gain your Columni. Once you get your full Columni you can start attempting Hard Mode EV/ KP.

 

What happens if BW puts in a gear check, but they decide that full orange with all purple mods from dailies is NOT required to run the tier 1 HM FP's, that level 50 blues or equivalent is all that is required? Are you going to try to kick those players who meet the standard set by BW, but not your standard? Will you leave group and requeue, hoping to get a group that does meet your standards? If BW does implement a gear check, the possibility that the standards set by the developers, the ones who designed the gear gating in the first place, may not be enough for some people is what has some players concerned about "gear checking".

[Skidrowbro]

Hold on. Isn't SWToR the easiest MMO on the market? Nothing to do at 50? Bored at 50. What do we need a gear gate for again?

 

Those three questions have been floating around for quite some time, so what is it? Do we actually need a gear check?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[Calsidian]

What happens if BW puts in a gear check, but they decide that full orange with all purple mods from dailies is NOT required to run the tier 1 HM FP's, that level 50 blues or equivalent is all that is required? Are you going to try to kick those players who meet the standard set by BW, but not your standard? Will you leave group and requeue, hoping to get a group that does meet your standards? If BW does implement a gear check, the possibility that the standards set by the developers, the ones who designed the gear gating in the first place, may not be enough for some people is what has some players concerned about "gear checking".

 

Now you're just trying to stir up trouble for the sake of it, and this is certainly not an argument against Bioware adding a check to the tool. If they feel the content can be completed with blue level gear (and some HM FPs certainly can) then that's fine. At that point people have to do what they've always had to do, make a personal decision on whether or not they want to continue with the group.

 

If this feature is added onto the LFG Tool, then it should be done so as to be a benefit to both the person trying to queue, and to the potential group. That is, it would only restrict those who's gear is obviously below the requirements of the FP to the point that it would a poor experience for the player if they were allowed to join.

[MidichIorian]

I stopped reading on page 3 so it's possible that this has been brough up already but I'm interested in knowing how such a "gear check" would work.

 

Hp check? Tier check? None of those are good. Hp check might be somewhat accurate for tanks but tier check is useless for all. Just to give you an example, a dps sorc can in 56 mods (columi/ champion) ding 20K HP in non-augmented gear. That sounds all fine and dandy until you look at his or her dps , all that HP simply means that the player isnt using the best mods for the task. To be able to hit 20K HP AND have good dps as a dps sorc you need a fully augmented outfit and 58 mods.

 

So the point is that such a system would have to be really specific for it to be useful and I don't see that happening.