ZudetGambeous Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) **EDIT: Now that 1.3 is on PTS, looking for conformation one way or the other on this** The pictures Bioware released of the LFG tool didn't seem to include a gear check of any kind. What is preventing a level 50 in all green gear from queuing up for Devona or HM Lost Island? The last thing we need is spending an hour in a queue for a group only to get stuck in a group that doesn't even have the gear required to complete it and having to start over. A gear check is very important or you will have many frustrated and annoyed players. Clarification: I want a built in feature incorporated into the LFG tool that restricts what you can queue for based on level and gear rating. I do NOT want the restrictions players generated (like they CURRENTLY are in the game). Since the devs have created a gear gated game (enrage timers, tiered content, etc...) then it is obvious to me that they need a way to enforce such gating, which the preview of the LFG tool failed to show. Clarification 2: THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GEAR SCORE. IF YOU THINK IT DOES PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS NEEDED TO CLEAR AN INSTANCE, DETERMINED BY DEVELOERS, NOT PLAYERS. Edited June 6, 2012 by ZudetGambeous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yeah its like when some player wheres full PvE gear in my warzone...super annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Hmm, that's strange.. All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs. Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority. What do you want next? A mandatory upload of each potential group member's latest combat log so you can scrutinize it before they join? Maybe a checkbox for only those with Bio? Maybe a Founder's only option so those newer players who aren't worthy of you can't participate? Edited May 22, 2012 by Fuzzytoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JollyRogers Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority. Yep, one of the biggest negatives that come with it. Heaven forbid they play to have fun. Reminds me of the release of another games expansion. I was in part of the front pack that was running the heroic instances in our greens and blues, because we had nothing better at the time. We didn't have guides, tutorials, or gear requirements. We wiped, but had fun figuring it out. That was then. Now you see silly gear "requirements" to run those same things, by "expert" players who insist it can't be done without them. Funny thing is, if the advanced gear is required, how did they get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZudetGambeous Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hmm, that's strange.. All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs. Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority. The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. You are correct but you are gonna get flamed hard by this crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. The truth is always a bit inconvenient. Its going to be interesting to see how LFGs fail continually because no one has any idea who is doing what damage and half the people aren't geared for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The truth is always a bit inconvenient. Its going to be interesting to see how LFGs fail continually because no one has any idea who is doing what damage and half the people aren't geared for it. The whole thing is as half baked as the game itself but have you come to expect them to do anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tautha Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. I concede your point as valid, but this ability can (and has been) easily misused. When this was introduced in certain other MMO's, it caused a considerable community rift and resulted in a form of 'elitist' exclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I concede your point as valid, but this ability can (and has been) easily misused. When this was introduced in certain other MMO's, it caused a considerable community rift and resulted in a form of 'elitist' exclusion. Actually they built it into the system because it was in fact needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katahn Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. And yet how did you characterize it? "The bads" I believe. I hope you recognize how elitist and snobbish that came off as. Yes such a feature is likely necessary and will hopefully be included - although I doubt the minimum gear level the devs put in place will be nearly as high as some folks (not you specifically, but in the far more general sense) might mistakenly thinik are the minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) The truth is always a bit inconvenient. Its going to be interesting to see how LFGs fail continually because no one has any idea who is doing what damage and half the people aren't geared for it. It will probably be a learning experience for a number of people at first, as they begin to realize what they need in terms of gear, specs and tactics for various FPs. I know on the servers I play on, there's already helpful people in place that try to educate players on what they will need for certain things. What we don't need is a tool that allows other players to refuse other players based on something as arbitrary as gear choice. All it does is split the community and form elitism separation. If there was some base score that the LFG tool could automatically use to warn players that they may not be suited for the mission, then that's a different story. Allowing other players, who will absolutely misuse such a system, to exclude players based on gear(or stats, or specs, or hairstyle, or whatever) is a bad idea. Furthermore, I think the comment in the original post of: "Please Bioware don't make the fatal mistake of trying to make the bads happy." Clearly illustrates how and why such a tool would actually be used. Edited May 22, 2012 by Fuzzytoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSevv Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This is why I was against lfg tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tloops Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hmm, that's strange.. All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs. Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority. What do you want next? A mandatory upload of each potential group member's latest combat log so you can scrutinize it before they join? Maybe a checkbox for only those with Bio? Maybe a Founder's only option so those newer players who aren't worthy of you can't participate? amen to this,nothing worse than elitist jerks shunning people because they are missing 1 purple implant or something. i was hoping this community wouldnt be so stuck up to do that,but i guess i was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This is why I was against lfg tool. because you want to run hard modes in greens? ...odd reason to oppose the LFG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) The whole thing is as half baked as the game itself but have you come to expect them to do anything else? Its amusing and sad at the same time. I'm not going to sit here and say "Make your game like WoW!" but ffs, if you are going to do the same stuff they do anyway then you might as well take a look at how they go about it - chances are, they already had the problems you are going to encounter and already figured out how to work around it. Its like they are developing this game in a vacuum. Furthermore, I think the comment in your original post of: "Please Bioware don't make the fatal mistake of trying to make the bads happy." Clearly illustrates how and why such a tool would actually be used. Where did I say this? Edited May 22, 2012 by Frostvein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Its amusing and sad at the same time. I'm not going to sit here and say "Make your game like WoW!" but ffs, if you are going to do the same stuff they do anyway then you might as well take a look at how they go about it - chances are, they already had the problems you are going to encounter and already figured out how to work around it. Its like they are developing this game in a vacuum. You are applying a logic that this game has been devoid of. It does seem like they are making the game in some galaxy far far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Where did I say this? you didn't, which I realized after I posted and which is why I edited it Edited May 22, 2012 by Fuzzytoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Then feel free to sit on the fleet and inspect, then invite whoever you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabakur Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Excellent idea, if this isn't part of the lfg tool make it so, post haste. Just to state, in experience with the content, both denova and lost island take better than average gear. You can try li hm with greens and 3/5 column but good luck. Minimum for hm denova is pretty much full rakata 18.5 k hps + it's not easy, if they have this as part of the lfg, which I hope they do there's going to have to be an item level check. The content demands it. Edited May 22, 2012 by Macabakur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The standard aren't arbitrary and they are set by the developers. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Devona is physically impossible to clear if your tank is in Tionese gear. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, you don't have enough health to survive, end of story, no discussion. Therefore if you are in Tionese gear you should not be allowed to queue for Devona. I'm not trying to exclude anyone that isn't already excluded. Certain gear is required to clear certain content, its not a mystery or some conspiracy elitist theory, its just how the game is designed. This is a gear based game, so not very surprisingly the content is gear gated. And that doesn't change whether a LFG tool has a gearing option or not. What's the alternative to finding out gear now, without a tool of any kind? Ultimately the results will be the same. BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 amen to this,nothing worse than elitist jerks shunning people because they are missing 1 purple implant or something. i was hoping this community wouldnt be so stuck up to do that,but i guess i was wrong. It already happens now. There's certain groups on all the servers I play on who won't let you play with them unless they approve of your gear first, and your spec, and some even still require Bio. It's usually these same people that whine in General about how hard it is to get a group together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Then feel free to sit on the fleet and inspect, then invite whoever you like. Thats what people did in WoW before gearscore, all that addon did was make it faster to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Don't block players from playing the game... if they are jumping into queues with no level gear and are getting killed, I'm sure they will realize soon enough. They certainly will with players like you shouting at them. But don't give them a pop-up that says, 'your currently equiped gear is insufficient for this flashpoint'... ...what does that mean? I'm sure you and I know what it means but a lot of people won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSevv Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 because you want to run hard modes in greens? ...odd reason to oppose the LFG I guess that I walked into that one, no a LFG tool just creates more drama with in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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