Will You Trust Bioware Again?

[asbalana]

 

Casual gamers such as yourself, who lack any kind of devotion or commitment to a product, is what's leading this game to fail. "Oh if I stop having fun I will just leave or stop playing." Some of us care enough about this game that if there are problems, we will raise them and raise them again and again to make it work. There were HUNDREDS of pages on a single thread regarding one single issue (high-res textures) starting in late December lasting for a few months. When that issue was not addressed, compounded by other problems, many subscribers left the game. How is this good for your long-term enjoyment of the game? I'm glad that quitting a game is so easy for you. For some of us, who really looked forward to SWTOR, who really spent our time and eneregy getting to know this game, don't want to give it up without at least a fight.

 

I would take exception with your use of the term "casual gamers" since my wife and I could be considered casual in our approach but not in the time spent in game. We are not hard core raiders or pvpers and many would call us casual.

 

But I agree with the concept underlying your point. I remember many other threads addressing a multitude of issues which went on for hundreds (and in the case of Ability Delay and problems with combat that probably went to a thousand) that BW either never addressed or took a half hearted swipe at and somewhat fixed, but never really did. Most of those early threads were put together by top notch people and joined by posters that offered quality analysis and discussion. I was struck by how much those people cared and how they tried to offer (at a considerable time cost to themselves) analysis and input.

 

Many of those people, early on, predicted that if the issues discussed were not addressed that the game would drop significantly in subs and play time. The posters were both casual and hard core and were united in a strong desire for this game to succeed. Sadly, they are long gone. Sadly too, many others have left as well.

 

My wife and I are also people who are great Star Wars fans and were looking forward to this game with great anticipation. We have come to know it very well. We still play for our reasons while we wait for something else to come along (not a glowing recommendation for a AAA SW mmo) and have come to feel that the game is beyond hope. We feel that it will continue to bleed subs at a significant rate and the only issue is will it reach the end of the fall at or above the EA/BW magic break even point.

 

Every fight comes to a point, even if some combatants are still standing, when it is over. So shed a tear, bury the dead, and move on.

Edited May 22, 2012 by asbalana

[MMornard]

Man. You have no idea. I left WoW to play DCUO. I left DCUO to play this game. I was talking so much trash on SOE. Saying they couldn't coordinate a game right and they were clueless about pvp. And that if Bioware was given the rights to the DC characters they would've made a great game like they were doing with Star Wars...

 

boy was I wrong.

 

Blizzard sucks.

 

SOE sucks.

 

BW sucks.

 

Here I come Guild Wars 2. Don't let me down. I've been hurt in the past.

 

GW2 will suck.

 

Whatever game you go to after that will suck.

 

As will the next.

 

And the next.

 

At some point, you will realize that the common thread in all these games that "suck" is you.

[MMornard]

Yes, I will trust Bioware again.... this game is EXACTLY what I wanted. KOTOR3 that I can play with my wife.

 

I think it's perfect.

[Thundergulch]

A lot of us bought this game believing that Bioware would come through with a great game. Plus it was Star Wars. Then we started seeing the warning signs within a few weeks of launch:

 

-No high-res textures

 

Does anyone ever mention the fact that EVERY single gameplay trailer while this game was in beta wasn't even in HD?

How many games have low res trailers?

I was in beta since October 2010 and from day 1 I was put off by the low res graphics, granted it was early beta, but even as the game got closer to launch, we never really tested a high res graphic game.

the ONLY reason I play this game still is because it's Star Wars themed.

I saw the movie in theaters back in the 70's and was addicted ever since.

[Miyo]

I played and loved NWN, Baulders gate, DA:O and ME:1 & 2.

 

I played and hated DA:2 & ME:3 (forced multiplayer and the 'pick your colour' ending).

 

SWTOR aside, i'm very dubious in my faith in Bioware now, I don't think i'll blindly buy one of their titles assuming it'll be of the same calibre of it's predecessors again. It's their own fault, they made outstanding games in the past and it's hard to live up to their former titles. If it was any other game company ME:3 and DA:2 might have looked like decent standalone games.

[Farho]

Yes, I will trust Bioware again.... this game is EXACTLY what I wanted. KOTOR3 that I can play with my wife.

 

I think it's perfect.

 

Hehe, wish it was marketed that way. Couple of the Old Republic. But it wasn't.

As for me, not only I'm not going to trust any EA/BW collaborations, I'm not going to buy any MMO right away.

[Hellyeah_Rook]

Yes.

 

I like Bioware. I've been playing their games since Baulder's Gate. I really enjoy their games. I get excited when they announce new games, and I was hyped for SWTOR.

 

SWTOR has issues to say the least. Some of them are little, while others are huge. The sever one being the server population problems. I guess I am hoping they will come through on this, and do merges or whatever. My second biggest issue is their lack of delivery on SGRs. But I admit the later is small.

 

I just really hope they do some thing about the populations problems before they loose so many customers the game is entirely not worth playing anymore.

[MMornard]

Couple of the Old Republic.

 

Your Internets, gentlebeing.

[NDiggy]

I still trust BW Edmonton. Anything made by BW Austin/Mythic I'll avoid like the plague.

[MorgothQuick]

After ME3/DA2/SWTOR no I wont trust bioware again. And I been playing their games since Baldurs Gate

[PlacidDragon]

Will You Trust Bioware Again?

Sadly, no.

 

They used to have fantastic products, Baldurs Gate, NWN, Kotor, ME, etc etc. I would always (after BG) buy the game on releaseday "unseen", knowing it would be a great game (and they all were).

 

Untli Dragon Age 2. Bought it on release day, played it for maybe 20 minutes, uninstalled and i've never touched it since. There were plenty of "warning signs" available of EA meddling, an absolute ton of DLC's for Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2, but never in my wildest dreams (nightmares rather) did i think that Bioware would butcher a game to the degree DA2 was mutilated.

 

Then i pre-ordered SWTOR because, hey, its an MMO, right.. completely different thing.. and they would be partnered with Lucasarts. No way would they dare to somehow mess that up... oh, my bad... again.

 

Got a 6 month sub which was canceled after 2 or so months (but still valid for what, 60+ more days.. i havent checked.. hell, i've not even logged in for weeks).

 

Anyway, to sum it up before i write a book on it.. no, i dont trust the Bioware brand anymore.. it used to be a brand of quality, now...well, not so much.

 

I stayed well clear of ME3 (fortunately by the sound of it), and i will stay well clear of Dragon Age 3, which i imagine will be the wet dream of a 13 year old console kid on a sugar rush..

 

If i do end up buying another Bioware title, it will only be after thorough checking, forum visits, etc. There, im done

[PlacidDragon]

I still trust BW Edmonton

So did i, until they made the abomination known as Dragon Age 2. Not anymore though

[Elsharla]

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you on that one. Or, maybe we each have a different definition of a 'casual' player or play style. I'm referring to the "casual player" that can only play an hour or so a weeknight if they're lucky. And maybe a few hours in a block on weekends. The below is referring to these casual players in a general sense.

 

We work jobs during the week, and we have families. We play for entertainment, fun, and to relax. And, I think you'll find the majority of the casual players of this type can be very loyal to something, as long as they're having fun. The casual players tend to avoid the forums for the most part, as modern day games pretty much have cesspools for forums, and SWToR is no different. They typically have a greater understanding and tolerance than the "OMG FIX IT NOW OR ELSE!" crowd. We understand how businesses run, and how the internal workings of large companies can go. We understand that developers are people too, and don't expect them to be chained at their desks 24 hours a day, to be at our beckoned call.

 

We also have disposable income. We can (and do) buy multiple accounts for games for family members to play with us. We buy the 'frilly' things that can be offered as extras for cash in games that offer it. Dropping $25 for a flashy, cosmetic pet or mount, per account in our households isn't a major issue for us. Or, if character slots get filled, we don't have an issue of firing up a second account to serve as our banks, expanded alts, etc...

 

We have friends and network with people at our jobs who are like minded and play with them, introducing additional players to the game of the same type. Even if we can run just a single flashpoint over a weekend, but have fun with our friends, that is good for us. We might even wipe a few times, and laugh amongst ourselves about some of the comical things that happened when we screw up.

 

We don't get upset if someone isn't "geared" to play with us. We remember we all were like that player, and that having fun was more important. We don't think it's fun to purposely and negatively impact other players by stealing their nods or quest items in an area we may be in as well. We're not the hot heads who will quit and run off to the new, shiny game the moment our immediate issues aren't met.

 

So no, casual gamers are typically not the ones who cause a game to fail. Casual gamers tend to be the 'bread and butter' and provide a steady income to companies who provide a sufficiently entertaining product. We don't have large demands, or expect the game code to be re-written to meet our demands. Casual gamers are the ones keeping the lights on (and the developers employed) long after the fly-by-night crowd has moved off to the next hot thing.

Quoted for the absolute fracking truth.

 

This is DOT all over We are most definitely "dedicated casuals". Sure we're not online 24/7, but we still pay our monthly sub and have a great deal of fun without having to approch an MMO like a second job.

 

I'm truly glad BW's main demographic for producing this MMO is us 'casuals', I've been sick to the back teeth of an MMO developer being pushed around by extremists within the gaming community. Rushing things only leads to more issues and new lines of code becoming broken >.< it make my mind boggle with the amount of data within multiple databases that has to be managed... I dread to think of actually how many lines of codes and variables that have to be considered when making a change and the impact that change can have once in production O.o

 

Will I trust BW? as many have noted before in this thread, it is a moot point. Some of their games were great some subpar, and I will probably buy another title of two from them. *shrugs* all this is is entertainment, and to put it bluntly ALL entertainment is technically a waste of your time, it is soley down to "am I having fun or not, whilst 'wasting time'?"

 

But this continual trash talking by screaming extremists of every new game that comes out will ultimately harm the gaming industry in the long run. Better to use the appropriate channels to feedback, and if that still doesn't work use the clearest message of all and take you $$ elsewhere.

 

Us causal will still be here, enjoying the game for what it is (and not some imaginary or unrealistc expectation of a game), and still paying our sub and having a laugh with friends.

[MMornard]

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you on that one. Or, maybe we each have a different definition of a 'casual' player or play style. I'm referring to the "casual player" that can only play an hour or so a weeknight if they're lucky. And maybe a few hours in a block on weekends. The below is referring to these casual players in a general sense.

 

We work jobs during the week, and we have families. We play for entertainment, fun, and to relax. And, I think you'll find the majority of the casual players of this type can be very loyal to something, as long as they're having fun. The casual players tend to avoid the forums for the most part, as modern day games pretty much have cesspools for forums, and SWToR is no different. They typically have a greater understanding and tolerance than the "OMG FIX IT NOW OR ELSE!" crowd. We understand how businesses run, and how the internal workings of large companies can go. We understand that developers are people too, and don't expect them to be chained at their desks 24 hours a day, to be at our beckoned call.

 

We also have disposable income. We can (and do) buy multiple accounts for games for family members to play with us. We buy the 'frilly' things that can be offered as extras for cash in games that offer it. Dropping $25 for a flashy, cosmetic pet or mount, per account in our households isn't a major issue for us. Or, if character slots get filled, we don't have an issue of firing up a second account to serve as our banks, expanded alts, etc...

 

We have friends and network with people at our jobs who are like minded and play with them, introducing additional players to the game of the same type. Even if we can run just a single flashpoint over a weekend, but have fun with our friends, that is good for us. We might even wipe a few times, and laugh amongst ourselves about some of the comical things that happened when we screw up.

 

We don't get upset if someone isn't "geared" to play with us. We remember we all were like that player, and that having fun was more important. We don't think it's fun to purposely and negatively impact other players by stealing their nods or quest items in an area we may be in as well. We're not the hot heads who will quit and run off to the new, shiny game the moment our immediate issues aren't met.

 

So no, casual gamers are typically not the ones who cause a game to fail. Casual gamers tend to be the 'bread and butter' and provide a steady income to companies who provide a sufficiently entertaining product. We don't have large demands, or expect the game code to be re-written to meet our demands. Casual gamers are the ones keeping the lights on (and the developers employed) long after the fly-by-night crowd has moved off to the next hot thing.

 

Right with you. I started playing WoW in 2007, and STILL don't have a character at maximum level. Sometimes I don't even log in for weeks at a time.

 

But my money faithfully chugs off to Blizzard every month, just like my money faithfully chugs off to Bioware every month.

 

Why? Because fifteen bucks a month is chump change. A glass of wine up the street is ten bucks, unless you're drinking Chateau de Pig Whizz. Ten bucks for a burger and fries. Six bucks for a Guinness.

 

If I can spend two or three hours a week poodling around on WoW or SWTOR, it's cheap entertainment money.

 

Heck, have ya priced going to a movie in NYC lately? And don't even GET me started on if you want popcorn!

 

All ye who wave your "epeens," look on us and despair. We are the future of gaming; we pay faithfully, we don't complain, and there are many, many, many, many more of us.

[Shonuff]

Even Nintendo makes bad games.

 

And im talking about their AAA titles not just the side kiddy games. They made bad Zelda games, Mario Games and even Bad Metroid Games. It happens. I would'nt even catagorize SWTOR as a bad game but a badly organized game.

 

Bioware is an awsome company. I trust them because they make quality games but anyone in the industry will tell you that MMO game design is NOT a walk in the park. All the talant in the world could never prepare a company for the complexity that is an MMO. Some just ride the bull longer than others before they are bucked off.

 

No company can have a perfect track record all the time.

 

Now if you want a company you "Can't trust" take Capcom (Im a fighting game nut on the side) their buisness practices are so shady I don't know what to think of them anymore. That is a classic example of not trusting a video game company.

 

The question you should really be asking is, will Bioware fix this in time? Trust is a moot point because I don't feel cheated: I seen the product, I liked the cover, I bought it, now im bored, I DO feel my time has been vastly wasted waiting for the game to grow. I think that is a much more of a fair argument.

 

Just because the game is not doing as we expect does'nt mean we can't trust Bioware. it is a learning experience. I'd rather they learn from this and do better next time than try to be slick.

[mangarrage]

Well people for some reason are going to try Secret World from Funcom after Age of Conan and I think they sinned way more then BW

[curzen]

BioWare won't do another MMO anytime soon so whether or not I trust them is a moot point. WildStar, Copernicus and Elder Scrolls Online will compete with SWTOR for my money. I'd be surprised if Bethesda ****s it up as badly as BioWare just did.

[Urael]

A lot of us bought this game believing that Bioware would come through with a great game. Plus it was Star Wars.

 

This will be my last BW/EA product. I will ride this ship to the bottom of the ocean but, this is the last time.

[Urael]

BioWare won't do another MMO anytime soon so whether or not I trust them is a moot point. WildStar, Copernicus and Elder Scrolls Online will compete with SWTOR for my money. I'd be surprised if Bethesda ****s it up as badly as BioWare just did.

 

As long as Bethesa stays away from EA.... there is hope.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Well people for some reason are going to try Secret World from Funcom after Age of Conan and I think they sinned way more then BW

 

Yep, why not, different team, Ragnar Tornquist, and AoC wasn´t that bad 6 months after release. I´m in

[madmikeyb]

Not unless Bioware gets away from EA or they decide to start a new company not associated with EA. EA has been the death of bioware not just with this game either.

[RangerBeo]

I trust Bioware....but EA is the destroyer of games....I do not and will not trust EA with any product ever again.

[Tuscad]

BioWare won't do another MMO anytime soon so whether or not I trust them is a moot point. WildStar, Copernicus and Elder Scrolls Online will compete with SWTOR for my money. I'd be surprised if Bethesda ****s it up as badly as BioWare just did.

 

If I recall correctly Bethesda isn't making the Elder Scrolls Online, their parent company Zenimax is.

[labyrinth]

If I recall correctly Bethesda isn't making the Elder Scrolls Online, their parent company Zenimax is.

 

Aren't they using the same engine as SWTOR as well? Not so sure about this one, but it's what I remember reading.

Edited May 22, 2012 by labyrinth

[Tuscad]

Aren't they using the same engine as SWTOR as well? Not so sure about this one, but it's what I remember reading.

 

I heard they are using the Hero Engine. TOR uses an unfinished modified Alpha version of the Hero Engine. What they are using will be better than what we have.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Tuscad